Expat Tax Twists in Thailand: Navigating the New Landscape in 2024

[Cabradelmar]

4 minutes ago, trevoromgh said:

Can someone advise me if these new tax rules apply if you live in Thailand for less than 6 months of the year please?

 

Absolutely not. If you are not a tax resident (having lived here less than 6 months in any calendar year) Thailand personal income tax laws don't apply to you for those years. 

[Cabradelmar]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

You may wish to look more closely.

 

https://sherrings.com/gift-tax-law-in-thailand.html

 

Yep. Child and spouse. Just as I said. 

[charliebadenhop]

Sorry if I am not smart enough to fully understand...

 

Reading one of the articles posted just now- Is it saying that any gift under B20 mil can easily be gotten without the need to pay tax.

Or.....???

 

 

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Cabradelmar said:

 

Yep. Child and spouse. Just as I said. 

"For a gift received by a person who is NOT an ascendant, decedent or spouse, tax is payable on the amount of the gift, in excess of THB 10 mill."

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, charliebadenhop said:

Sorry if I am not smart enough to fully understand...

 

Reading one of the articles posted just now- Is it saying that any gift under B20 mil can easily be gotten without the need to pay tax.

Or.....???

 

 

It depends on the amount of the gift and the relationship between the gifter and the receiver, there is a table in the sherrings link posted earlier..

[Stocky]

2 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

"For a gift received by a person who is NOT an ascendant, decedent or spouse, tax is payable on the amount of the gift, in excess of THB 10 mill."

But what does the "on occasions of tradition or custom" exactly mean? 

[LikeItHot]

For retirement extensions if they want to tax transfers that's fine but to have a mandatory monthly transfer and then taxing it is a scam.  It's a matter of minutes before they realize that raising this minimum will increase their revenue.  Get your exit plan sorted.  It would be the same as your home country telling you you will be taxed a certain percent your income and you must make the level of income they decide for you.  It's basically government extortion. And furthermore if a Thai doesn't pay maybe they will get a fine but we all know what happens if a foreigner doesn't pay. They will attach it to your immigration status so the stakes are higher.  Tax Thais earning abroad, tax foreigners earning in Thailand and if you must, slap a 100000 baht fee on non-o extensions do it but let's stop the lie that says this law was designed to catch rich Thais earning abroad and call it what it is. A new way to dig into rich white pockets.  Everyone knows rich Thais don't have to follow laws.  

[Mike Lister]

Just now, Stocky said:

But what does the "on occasions of tradition or custom" exactly mean? 

A birthday present every year or similar perhaps, 

[CygnusX1]

10 minutes ago, Cabradelmar said:

Absolutely not. If you are not a tax resident (having lived here less than 6 months in any calendar year) Thailand personal income tax laws don't apply to you for those years. 

I believe less than 180 days - vital to be accurate here! I now have a spreadsheet for days in Thailand, had intended to spend around 7 months here in 2024, now planning no more than 177 days (a delayed or cancelled flight could put me over 180 days if I don’t allow a safety margin). I think if I’m in Thailand at midnight that counts as being here for the next day?

[Kwaibill]

Where can  the “rules” be found?

I have a not too bad income from the U.S. from SS and investments, but the way it is configured I do not meet the threshold to have to pay taxes there. Only about 1/3  would be taxable if I did exceed that limit, but I don’t.

How to determine if I should be taxed in Thailand?

Might consider locating to somewhere else for six plus months, CostsRica e.g., if the numbers don’t work.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, LikeItHot said:

For retirement extensions if they want to tax transfers that's fine but to have a mandatory monthly transfer and then taxing it is a scam.  It's a matter of minutes before they realize that raising this minimum will increase their revenue.  Get your exit plan sorted.  It would be the same as your home country telling you you will be taxed a certain percent your income and you must make the level of income they decide for you.  It's basically government extortion. And furthermore if a Thai doesn't pay maybe they will get a fine but we all know what happens if a foreigner doesn't pay. They will attach it to your immigration status so the stakes are higher.  Tax Thais earning abroad, tax foreigners earning in Thailand and if you must, slap a 100000 baht fee on non-o extensions do it but let's stop the lie that says this law was designed to catch rich Thais earning abroad and call it what it is. A new way to dig into rich white pockets.  Everyone knows rich Thais don't have to follow laws.  

Nobody has ever said that your monthly transfer is going to be taxed at source, whether or not it is taxed when a tax return is filed, will  vary from person to person, the source of the funds, their DTA etc etc.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, CygnusX1 said:

I believe less than 180 days - vital to be accurate here! I now have a spreadsheet for days in Thailand, had intended to spend around 7 months here in 2024, now planning no more than 177 days (a delayed or cancelled flight could put me over 180 days if I don’t allow a safety margin). I think if I’m in Thailand at midnight that counts as being here for the next day?

No, it's the date that is stamped in your passport that is used here for tax residency purposes.

[statman78]

I talked to my tax accountant here in Thailand.  For US citizens, Social Security benefits are not subject to tax here in Thailand.  According to him, as long as the total amount I bring in is less than my annual SS benefit I will not have a tax liability here in Thailand.

 

I’ll probably need to file a tax return here but as long as I can show that the amount I brought into Thailand is less than my US Social Security benefits I will not need to pay any taxes here.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, Kwaibill said:

Where can  the “rules” be found?

I have a not too bad income from the U.S. from SS and investments, but the way it is configured I do not meet the threshold to have to pay taxes there. Only about 1/3  would be taxable if I did exceed that limit, but I don’t.

How to determine if I should be taxed in Thailand?

 

[CygnusX1]

Just now, Mike Lister said:

No, it's the date that is stamped in your passport that is used here for tax residency purposes.

OK, so if my flight out of Thailand is at 2am and I’m through Immigration before midnight, then I’m not in Thailand on the new day.

[matta01]

36 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The right to live here year round.

For stay is already 1.900 baht/year

[LikeItHot]

6 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Nobody has ever said that your monthly transfer is going to be taxed at source, whether or not it is taxed when a tax return is filed, will  vary from person to person, the source of the funds, their DTA etc etc.

I never said it would be taxed at "source".  The transfers will be taxed here.  The transfers are mandatory.  Therefore the tax is mandatory and at a level set by them not your actual monthly needs. Obviously that's a baseline for those on retirement extensions.  OBVIOUSLY it will increase from there depending on individual transfers people make. Don't be obtuse and then make obvious statements. It wastes everyone's time.

[Mike Lister]

Just now, matta01 said:

For stay is already 1.900 baht/year

You pay for a visa in almost every country, 1,900 is the price you pay here, that's for the visa, not for staying here.

[NorthernRyland]

True or false? Anyone living here earning a median American income will be taxed at the maximum rate (35%) and apply to all imported money. Depending on how the dual tax treaty works out you're probably paying around 30% tax on your income (state + federal) and so they will use the difference of the two rates to calculate your liability, around 5%.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, LikeItHot said:

I never said it would be taxed at "source".  The transfers will be taxed here.  The transfers are mandatory.  Therefore the tax is mandatory and at a level set by them not your actual monthly needs. Obviously that's a baseline for those on retirement extensions.  OBVIO

As said several times, whether or not that 65k is taxed varies from person to person, based on a number of variables.

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

True or false? Anyone living here earning a median American income will be taxed at the maximum rate (35%) and apply to all imported money. Depending on how the dual tax treaty works out you're probably paying around 30% tax on your income (state + federal) and so they will use the difference of the two rates to calculate your liability, around 5%.

Dunno and can't be bothered to do the search and the math. But the tax tables are in the tax guide that has been linked several times, have at it.

[heiri007]

How... will it all be enforced?

[Drumbuie]

53 minutes ago, 1happykamper said:

.. and if I do pay taxes in Thailand.. what will I get in return ? 555

All the things the government contributes towards. You may mock Thai policing ( and I'm sure you do) but try living in a country with no effective policing or judicial system *at all* for a while... and then you might see it differently.

Ditto provision and distribution of electricity, public transport systems etc. A country with a completely uneducated population and no public health services is also not much fun to live in. 

I'll be happy to pay some tax here, as I was in my own countr, even though a lot is mis-spent, because the alternative is a lot worse. 

[J Branche]

36 minutes ago, creative1000 said:

Is moving money (earned 10 years ago) from a usa bank account to Thailand bank now taxable this year? I’ve heard so many answers

https://www.rd.go.th/21.html scroll down to 21 November 2023 Questions-Answers about paying personal income tax according to Section 41 Paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

 

You can use Google Translate.

 

This is from the Thai Revenue Department.  Additionally the US Thai Tax Treaty will assist with understanding potential tax implications.  

 

If you are classified as a Tax Resident according to the Thai Revenue department staying in Thailand for 180 days or more in a calendar year or by Article 4 Residence of the US Thai Tax Treaty found on the US IRS website.

 

Please get your information from reliable credible sources so you may understand your potential tax consequences.

[ChaiyaTH]

Sounds like a lot more bla bla bla, not sure what the point of giving to a spouse is as well, they would still need to pay their own tax over it? Otherwise it is nothing new, you could setup a way to do that already. Meanwhile I do not see a Thai yet that has been confronted with the never paid taxes, in a lifetime. 

Wonder how they even are thinking to go check on us foreigners, knowing it is not only bank information domestically but als abroad (fail already, at best they get what is reported or known by the tax authorities of the other country, banks not give anything for sure to them). To then also keep track of our visa movements etc. 

They would need some very high tech system to make this work for sure, and that is a problem for Thai jobs as well, last time I was dating students, 2-3 in 10 was becoming an ''accountant''. Those jobs would all be eliminated if going high-tech.

Similar to all those smart camera's giving fines, I received once a photo with fine, it didn't work longer than 2-3 weeks in total, local police broke it i guess. I mean this entire country drives on corruption and cash money, it would collapse once all revenues would be officially taxed.

[NorthernRyland]

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Dunno and can't be bothered to do the search and the math. But the tax tables are in the tax guide that has been linked several times, have at it.

 

for reference here are the current US federal income brackets. State income tax varies from 0 to 13%. A median US family earns 75,000/year and individual 30,000. The individual is earning 1 million THB per year. Not sure which rate they would pay in Thailand. My wife earns ~50k THB/month and pays 14% she says.

 

EDIT: there is also a standard deduction which is first applied to the total earnings.

 

 

 

 

[oldestswinger]

For what it's worth, about a week ago I went to my local tax office in Bangkok and told them that I wanted to apply for a tax identification number (TIN).

They asked if I had any income arising in Thailand. I replied that I did not and lived on my pension from the UK.

They said that I therefore did not need a TIN and would not issue one.

I said that I understood that from 1st Jan foreigners would be liable for tax on money brought in from abroad. They said that they had no information on this and wished me a good day.

[matta01]

You do not pay for the visa, you pay for the extension. (there is a little difference)

In almost all of the postings you read here, it states that Thailand asks for tax on your income but that is not the case. It is that they ask for tax on the money you bring into Thailand. The procedure therefore is for the moment unknown. What we do know is that there is a difference between a pensioner who has his monthly pension in a Thai bank account and a pensioner who brings money periodically into Thailand. Everything else is speculation for the moment.

[Mike Lister]

5 minutes ago, J Branche said:

https://www.rd.go.th/21.html scroll down to 21 November 2023 Questions-Answers about paying personal income tax according to Section 41 Paragraph 2 of the Revenue Code.

 

You can use Google Translate.

 

This is from the Thai Revenue Department.  Additionally the US Thai Tax Treaty will assist with understanding potential tax implications.  

 

If you are classified as a Tax Resident according to the Thai Revenue department staying in Thailand for 180 days or more in a calendar year or by Article 4 Residence of the US Thai Tax Treaty found on the US IRS website.

 

Please get your information from reliable credible sources so you may understand your potential tax consequences.

Agreed.

 

An English language version of that ruling may better help some.

 

https://sherrings.com/foreign-source-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Wonder how they even are thinking to go check on us foreigners, knowing it is not only bank information domestically but als abroad (fail already, at best they get what is reported or known by the tax authorities of the other country, banks not give anything for sure to them). To then also keep track of our visa movements etc. 

They're probably going to have to get immigration involved but if they can't achieve that then they'll have to keep track of foreigners and audit them. I assume they'll at least make us file an affidavit at immigration stating we paid taxes.