Opinion: The Case Against Israel Rests on Lies

[transam]

1 minute ago, WDSmart said:

Ha! Ha! Ha! 

Gotcha.................

[WDSmart]

4 minutes ago, Wobblybob said:

12 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Yes, you can. You just have to be ready to give them something they want in exchange for something you want.

Israeli lives?

No, the bottom line (my specialty, next the the crystal ball)...

Israel wants...

1 all of Israel and Palestine (a single state);

2 the hostages returned;

3 no more Palestinian attacks.

Palestine wants...
1 all of Israel and Palestine (single state);

2 a permanent ceasefire;

3 rebuilding of Gaza.

- Neither can have #1; they'll both have to settle for a two-state solution. As soon as they both accept that, negotiations can proceed.
- They can negotiate and both receive #2 and #3.


 

[Wobblybob]

41 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

No, the bottom line (my specialty, next the the crystal ball)...

Israel wants...

1 all of Israel and Palestine (a single state);

2 the hostages returned;

3 no more Palestinian attacks.

Palestine wants...
1 all of Israel and Palestine (single state);

2 a permanent ceasefire;

3 rebuilding of Gaza.

- Neither can have #1; they'll both have to settle for a two-state solution. As soon as they both accept that, negotiations can proceed.
- They can negotiate and both receive #2 and #3.


 

Jackanory, tell us a story and seek help tout suite.🥴

[retarius]

19 hours ago, Wobblybob said:

Your constant usage of your one moment in time history lessons does not negate the fact that Hamas did start this war on Oct 7th, for without the incursion there would be very little trouble, only the daily rocket attacks from Hamas of course.

Stop making excuses for these vile monsters!

Who are the vile monsters? In my book they are Israelis. In your book they are Hamas. I disagree with you and think you have no morals or scruples. 

[stevenl]

54 minutes ago, retarius said:

Who are the vile monsters? In my book they are Israelis. In your book they are Hamas. I disagree with you and think you have no morals or scruples. 

That's because of the reasoning the Hamas attack happened in a vacuum and should be seen as unprovoked and the start of the war.

If it is placed in context one is labeled a vile Hamas supporter and anti-Semite.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

That's because of the reasoning the Hamas attack happened in a vacuum and should be seen as unprovoked and the start of the war.

If it is placed in context one is labeled a vile Hamas supporter and anti-Semite.

Never heard of rape, torture, mutilation, massacres and hostage taking being justified because of context. Nor does the UN or any other governing international body.

 

 

[Wobblybob]

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Who are the vile monsters? In my book they are Israelis. In your book they are Hamas. I disagree with you and think you have no morals or scruples. 

If you don't know who these vile monsters are, you have not been paying enough attention.

[retarius]

Just now, Wobblybob said:

If you don't know who these vile monsters are, you have not been paying enough attention.

I may close attention, and there is only one side murdering Palestinians by the ten thousand. You are the one who needs to pay attention. These are innocent women, kids and the vulnerable who can't escape the IDF 2000lbs bombs and their sniper fire. Wake up and get some morals. 

[Wobblybob]

Just now, retarius said:

I may close attention, and there is only one side murdering Palestinians by the ten thousand. You are the one who needs to pay attention. These are innocent women, kids and the vulnerable who can't escape the IDF 2000lbs bombs and their sniper fire. Wake up and get some morals. 

Your naivety and causticity is beginning to show, but keep the terrorist flag flying won't you!

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, retarius said:

I may close attention, and there is only one side murdering Palestinians by the ten thousand. You are the one who needs to pay attention. These are innocent women, kids and the vulnerable who can't escape the IDF 2000lbs bombs and their sniper fire. Wake up and get some morals. 

And your morals?

1 hour ago, retarius said:

Who are the vile monsters? In my book they are Israelis. In your book they are Hamas. I disagree with you and think you have no morals or scruples. 

Hamas supporters have none

[ozimoron]

16 hours ago, WDSmart said:

Of course, NEITHER side wants a two-state solution. That's why I've used the word "negotiate."

 

16 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I think you'll find I'm more like a "crystal ball." That will be when a "negotiated' two-state solution is forced on both parties.

 

If there is to be a ONE state solution then the whole region should be a UN protectorate. A 2 state solution is the only realistic solution. I think that if faced with that choice everyone would opt for the 2 state solution.

 

 

[seajae]

big difference between Israel and the terrorists is that idf isnt hiding behind the civillian population while attacking anyone, these terrorists are basically cowards, they try to avoid being injured/killed by attacking  unarmed civillians then proclaiming how great they are to kill children, women and old people. The when the idf goes after them they hide behind non combatants while shooting  at the idf, then they claim the idf is killing the civillians that they are using as shields when returning fire, maybe if these gutless terrorists actually fought without using their own people as shields there would be a lot less deaths but they refuse to do so, instead they use schools & hospitals as their bases, the money sent by the rest of the world that is supposed to be used for their people is instead used to make their tunnels and buy weapons. The land has always been Israels for centuries as well so trying to claim it as theirs has been showe time & again as being total BS. The problem is based on their own religious beliefs that promotes exactly what they are doing, raping and killing, while I may not like the idea of so many dying it falls directly at the terrorists feet, if they were "real" men they would not be acting as cowardly as they are, these people are beneath contempt and I hope hamas is totally destroyed along with the other muslim terrorsit groups that use any possible reason to rape and kill  so they can get their jollies and show everyone how big they think their appendage is, "look mum & dad, I killed these unarmed  women & children after rapiong them, arent I great"

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

big difference between Israel and the terrorists is that adf isnt hiding behind the civillian population while attacking the idf, these terrorists are basically cowards, they try to avoid being injured/killed by attacking  unarmed civillians then proclaiming how great they are to kill children, women and old people. The when the idf goes after them they hide behind non combatants while shooting  at the idf, then they claim the idf is killing the civillians that they are using as shields when returning fire, maybe if these gutless terrorists actually fought without using their own people as shields there would be a lot less deaths but they refuse to do so, instead they use schools & hospitals as their bases, the money sent by the rest of the world that is supposed to be used for their people is instead used to make their tunnels and buy weapons. The land has always been Israels for centuries as well so trying to claim it as theirs has been showe time & again as being total BS. The problem is based on their own religious beliefs that promotes exactly what they are doing, raping and killing, while I may not like the idea of so many dying it falls directly at the terrorists feet, if they were "real" men they would not be acting as cowardly as they are, these people are beneath contempt and I hope hamas is totally destroyed along with the other muslim terrorsit groups that use any possible reason to rape and kill  so they can get their jollies and show everyone how big they think their appendage is, "look mum & dad, I killed these unarmed  women & children after rapiong them, arent I great"

 

They like to say this but it's hard to separate from 2 million civilians in an area the size of a phone box. I doubt that even Hamas want innocent civilians killed even if the zionists want us to believe they don't care.

[seajae]

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

They like to say this but it's hard to separate from 2 million civilians in an area the size of a phone box. I doubt that even Hamas want innocent civilians killed even if the zionists want us to believe they don't care.

so why are they using the schools and hospitals as their bases and supply areas if they dont want "their" people injured, they use their own people and hostages because they lack intestinal fortitude, why should they be injured when they can use innocents to take the bullets for them. There are a lot of empty buildings etc they could use to attack the idf but they instead go to the heavily populated areas instead, they are pathetic cowards and deserve everything they get

 

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, retarius said:

Who are the vile monsters? In my book they are Israelis. In your book they are Hamas. I disagree with you and think you have no morals or scruples. 

So the only way you can disagree with someone is to flame and accuse them of having no moral or scruples. I disagree, I think you are the one with zero morals and as for scruples...........

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, seajae said:

so why are they using the schools and hospitals as their bases and supply areas if they dont want "their" people injured, they use their own people and hostages because they lack intestinal fortitude, why should they be injured when they can use innocents to take the bullets for them. There are a lot of empty buildings etc they could use to attack the idf but they instead go to the heavily populated areas instead, they are pathetic cowards and deserve everything they get

 

Do you think the IDF is justified in killing all those civilians just to get to Hamas? You could be the first person on this board who supports Israel to say yes or no.

[transam]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think the IDF is justified in killing all those civilians just to get to Hamas? You could be the first person on this board who supports Israel to say yes or no.

Did your Australians kill civilians in conflicts to deal with aggressors......?

[Bkk Brian]

32 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

They like to say this but it's hard to separate from 2 million civilians in an area the size of a phone box. I doubt that even Hamas want innocent civilians killed even if the zionists want us to believe they don't care.

I doubt that even Hamas want innocent civilians killed

 

Are you sure about that? Hamas has given them no choice and are proud to offer them up to die.

 

"Will we have to pay a price? Yes and we are willing to pay it, we are called a nation of martyrs and we are proud to sacrifice our martyrs"

 

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1719718109739688143

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Did your Australians kill civilians in conflicts to deal with aggressors......?

 

Individual Australian soldiers did for sure. You'd have to point to where the military did it while knowing the outcome was many dead civilians.

[Trippy]

4 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Do you think the IDF is justified in killing all those civilians just to get to Hamas? You could be the first person on this board who supports Israel to say yes or no.

How does anyone know who is Hamas and who isn't? Hamas can be women, children and the elderly. And since it's Hamas controlled media reporting the deaths, can any intelligent person believe it?

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Trippy said:

How does anyone know who is Hamas and who isn't? Hamas can be women, children and the elderly. And since it's Hamas controlled media reporting the deaths, can any intelligent person believe it?

 

I don't read Hamas controlled media. Or Israeli controlled media so how do I know? You fail the yes or no challenge. Two thirds of Palestinians killed are women and children. That is not in contention except by the most rabid zionists.

[transam]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

Individual Australian soldiers did for sure. You'd have to point to where the military did it while knowing the outcome was many dead civilians.

My late Aussy chum did kill civilians during a fire fight in Vietnam, he told me he never got over it, was going back to the village to pay some sort of homage......😢

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

My late Aussy chum did kill civilians during a fire fight in Vietnam, he told me he never got over it, was going back to the village to pay some sort of homage......😢

 

It's why many vets never speak about the war and suffer high rates of PTSD. Kudos to your friend. He did his duty as a soldier at an age that is really too young to be a soldier in my opinion.

[transam]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's why many vets never speak about the war and suffer high rates of PTSD. Kudos to your friend. He did his duty as a soldier at an age that is really too young to be a soldier in my opinion.

He was a sergeant........

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

I don't read Hamas controlled media. Or Israeli controlled media so how do I know? You fail the yes or no challenge. Two thirds of Palestinians killed are women and children. That is not in contention except by the most rabid zionists.

You used to link to AJ before. They may not be controlled by Hamas but certainly employee a few for reporting Hamas propaganda.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

He was a sergeant........

 

Sure, and he joined the military at what age? imo, 25 should be the minimum to even join. To be sure, killing civilians whether deliberately or through negligence is a war crime. I understand that they were afraid of everybody. Mistakes happen. I blame officers who commanded him much more than a sergeant. That very argument is playing out now in Australian courts.

[Lacessit]

22 hours ago, WDSmart said:

This conflict didn't start on Oct 7. That was just the latest (now second-latest) in this series of horrific, reciprocal attacks.

I also "...don't get how this can be forgotten about and swept under the carpet by the world," but if you look under the rug, you'll see that this modern-day version of the centuries-old struggle between the Israelis and the Palestinians started 77 years ago.

True, and ever since, Palestinians have sworn to wipe out Israel. They have never accepted the 1947 UN mandate which established the state of Israel.

Trying to reason with Palestinians on this subject is like trying to reason with a rabid dog.

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

True, and ever since, Palestinians have sworn to wipe out Israel. They have never accepted the 1947 UN mandate which established the state of Israel.

Trying to reason with Palestinians on this subject is like trying to reason with a rabid dog.

 

Neither all Palestinians nor all Israelis oppose a 2 state solution.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Neither all Palestinians nor all Israelis oppose a 2 state solution.

That may be true, but it's Hamas, Al Fatah and Hezbollah who are calling the shots, and massaging the message.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

That may be true, but it's Hamas, Al Fatah and Hezbollah who are calling the shots, and massaging the message.

 

Nobody is forced to read or take note of any propaganda. I read nothing served up by either side.