Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Typical reply from those who fall for the misinformation. Who fact checks the fact checkers. Followed by bashing MSM.

 

He can edit his wiki page. Under their guidelines.

On Wikipedia, you're not allowed to edit articles about yourself (or your best friend, or your boss, or the skunk who lives under your porch). Wikipedia's long-held conflict of interest policy limits an article's contributors to anonymous strangers and unrelated randos for the sake of objectivity. But this can be frustrating to subjects of articles and those who love them, especially when information is wrong, outdated, or weird. If you're the subject of a Wikipedia article, you can certainly change your article without editing it directly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_Your_Own_Page

[Roo Island]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

I agree but IMO the experts were silenced and the misinformation peddlers are those who pushed the narrative and forced populations into conformity NOT based on evidence based science. Lockdowns were a perfect example of this.

They did the best they could considering this was the worst pandemic in a century. Lockdowns work. But only if people abide by them, which they didn't and that's what caused 2 outbreaks here. Remember the government officials who went to Cambodia, got sick, then spread it at an illegal night club in Bangkok?

[Roo Island]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

On Wikipedia, you're not allowed to edit articles about yourself (or your best friend, or your boss, or the skunk who lives under your porch). Wikipedia's long-held conflict of interest policy limits an article's contributors to anonymous strangers and unrelated randos for the sake of objectivity. But this can be frustrating to subjects of articles and those who love them, especially when information is wrong, outdated, or weird. If you're the subject of a Wikipedia article, you can certainly change your article without editing it directly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editing_Your_Own_Page

If you're the subject of a Wikipedia article, you can certainly change your article without editing it directly.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

They did the best they could considering this was the worst pandemic in a century. Lockdowns work. But only if people abide by them, which they didn't and that's what caused 2 outbreaks here. Remember the government officials who went to Cambodia, got sick, then spread it at an illegal night club in Bangkok?

The virus will spread that's the nature of it. This is Sweeden which didn't lockdown. Apart from this the lockdown policy wasn't based on evidence. It was a reaction.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

[Roo Island]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

The virus will spread that's the nature of it. This is Sweeden which didn't lockdown. Apart from this the lockdown policy wasn't based on evidence. It was a reaction.

 

The Swedish experiment was proven not to have worked. But it's something covid deniers latch onto.

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, Roo Island said:

The Swedish experiment was proven not to have worked. But it's something covid deniers latch onto.

 

In conclusion, Sweden experienced relatively fewer deaths per population unit than most other high-income countries that implemented stricter lockdown measures. It is concerning that some scientists who advocated for stringent measures seem to disregard real-world data and cling to their version of reality. The ability to learn from mistakes and acknowledge that hypotheses may be wrong is essential for future pandemic preparedness. This, coupled with careful analysis, is crucial for developing effective strategies in the face of future outbreaks.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10399217/#:~:text=In conclusion%2C Sweden experienced relatively,that implemented stricter lockdown measures.

 

[jacko45k]

24 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Guilty of spreading misinformation.

 

https://healthfeedback.org/authors/john-campbell/

I sort of had to put my faith in him to summarize all the conflicting information and claims flying about at the time..... far more nonsense was being spouted by the mentally challenged politicians. From both sides of the Atlantic. At least Campbell did not appear to be taking his orders from China like the WHO!

[Roo Island]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I sort of had to put my faith in him to summarize all the conflicting information and claims flying about at the time..... far more nonsense was being spouted by the mentally challenged politicians. From both sides of the Atlantic. At least Campbell did not appear to be taking his orders from China like the WHO!

I was in Portugal during the pandemic. An official was asked how they got so many to get the vaccine. Answer? They didn't make it political.

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

In conclusion, Sweden experienced relatively fewer deaths per population unit than most other high-income countries that implemented stricter lockdown measures. It is concerning that some scientists who advocated for stringent measures seem to disregard real-world data and cling to their version of reality. The ability to learn from mistakes and acknowledge that hypotheses may be wrong is essential for future pandemic preparedness. This, coupled with careful analysis, is crucial for developing effective strategies in the face of future outbreaks. I'm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10399217/#:~:text=In conclusion%2C Sweden experienced relatively,that implemented stricter lockdown measures.

 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8

 

Sweden's GDP slumped 8.6% in Q2, more sharply than its neighbors despite its no-lockdown policy

 

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

 

The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the World

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Roo Island said:

I was in Portugal during the pandemic. An official was asked how they got so many to get the vaccine. Answer? They didn't make it political.

As oppposed to so many other countries where people were forced to get vaccinated otherwise they would lose their jobs. Young healthy people. Why? 

[dinsdale]

6 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-sweden-gdp-falls-8pc-in-q2-worse-nordic-neighbors-2020-8

 

Sweden's GDP slumped 8.6% in Q2, more sharply than its neighbors despite its no-lockdown policy

 

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

 

The Swedish COVID-19 Response Is a Disaster. It Shouldn’t Be a Model for the Rest of the World

The citations you make are from those who pushed the narrative. GDP? No lockdown was the only reason for this? The number of daily infections would indicate that to some extent it did work. 

[dinsdale]

Campbell intimates a link between the white blood clots and the vaccines. Question is why doesn't he say; that because the period in which these clots first appeared correlates with the vaccine rollout there appears a link may, or may not exist, but further independant investigation is needed. He can't. If he said this YT would delete the upload and strike his channel. Freedom of speech is no longer allowed. Thou Shalt Not Question the Narrative. There is only one truth. 

 

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

The citations you make are from those who pushed the narrative. GDP? No lockdown was the only reason for this? The number of daily infections would indicate that to some extent it did work. 

It didn't work. Even their PM admitted such.

[Roo Island]

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Campbell intimates a link between the white blood clots and the vaccines. Question is why doesn't he say; that because the period in which these clots first appeared correlates with the vaccine rollout there appears a link may, or may not exist, but further independant investigation is needed. He can't. If he said this YT would delete the upload and strike his channel. Freedom of speech is no longer allowed. Thou Shalt Not Question the Narrative. There is only one truth. 

 

 

 

Freedom of speech? You mean freedom to post misinformation and potentially negatively impact the lives of people who fall for it

[Dolf]

5 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Freedom of speech? You mean freedom to post misinformation and potentially negatively impact the lives of people who fall for it

People are free to ignore him. Doctors and drug companies have misled the public for many years. It's not just youtubers misleading people.

 

 

[ozimoron]

On 2/22/2024 at 8:29 AM, shunter said:

Remember that drug panacea for all, ''Thalidomide''? The experts at the time wouldn't listen to or look at the delights that Thalidomide endowed upon babies.

 

Big Phara was and still is about profit over the collateral  damage known as people.

 

Thalidomide is now used as a cancer and leprosy  treatment, the babies of the time were Big Pharma lab subjects.

 

Not a vaccine.

[NoDisplayName]

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I agree but IMO the experts were silenced and the misinformation peddlers are those who pushed the narrative and forced populations into conformity NOT based on evidence based science. Lockdowns were a perfect example of this.

 

Allow me to add my anecdote.  My wife and I were living in China, Hainan Island, during the first two years of the covids.  Unable to renew my retirement extension as international travel was prohibited.

 

Hainan has a population of 10 million, had required masking and social distancing, and some locations had limited lockdowns.  In the beginning, public transport was shut down for two weeks.  During that time we were restricted to our condo, one person allowed out once per day to forage for vittles.  The entire population was tested several times.  Positive tests resulted in entire housing complexes being thoroughly sanitized, with all public contacts of the infected individual tracked via cellphone app.

 

Over the first two years of the covids, there were about 200 symptomatic cases and six deaths on the island.  Most of those cases were brought in by persons returning from the mainland.

 

Domestic restrictions were loosened in 2022, coinciding with thousands of cases during the latter half of the year.  We left in July of that year before the outbreak in Sanya in August.

[dinsdale]

1 hour ago, Roo Island said:

Freedom of speech? You mean freedom to post misinformation and potentially negatively impact the lives of people who fall for it

Being dictated to by big pharma and the governments in their pockets isn't freedom. People should be able to make their own informed decisions which means ALL available research and information should be on the table not just that which gets the tick of approaval from the vested interests. As for misinformation why was AZ called safe and effective when it wasn't (as is public knowelge AZ caused blood clots and the product was withdrawn). I'll tell you. Money. How about the fact that mRNA spike proteins are found throughout the body when the manufacturers of said product said this would not be the case.

A study involving rats showed a wide systemic distibution of spike proteinsand this was before the emergency approaval of the mRNA vaccines. The public were told that it stays in the deltoid muscle. Clear misinformation.

 

https://www.tga.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi-2389-06.pdf

 

 

[dinsdale]

19 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

No one? So you didn't bother to read the OP post in this thread, which recounted the following:

 

"Thai doctor Thiravat Hemachudha sparked controversy when he shared information about the potentially fatal effect of the messenger Ribonucleic Acid (mRNA) Covid-19 vaccine, citing English YouTuber John Campbell.

 

Thiravat shared information from the English YouTuber, and retired nurse educator, Campbell, on Facebook on February 19. Thiravat talked about a white clot that was found in people and dead bodies with a history of the mRNA Covid vaccines."

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1320487-controversy-erupts-as-thai-doctors-clash-over-mrna-vaccine-effect/

 

That pretty much sounds like folks linking the clots with COVID vaccines... of course, without any evidence or proof of the connection, and the notion of such a connection having previously been debunked by various medical experts, as recounted in my earlier posts here above.

And of course, that's exactly what numerous anti-vax posters have been doing and trying to do throughout this ridiculous thread -- claim some connection between the clots and COVID vaccines.

 

So much for your "no one."

 

 

 

"Anti-vax posters" It really does seem that you can't or just wont get it into your head that one can have grave misgivings about mRNA vaccines and NOT BE AN ANTI-VAXER. Not mutually inclusive as I have stated many times.

[pomchop]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:54 PM, johng said:

Yes that narrative was pushed very heavily.

 

At "the speed of science"

 

That IMHO was due to the totally overboard reactions of certain governments who totally ignored "accepted"  pandemic protocols  and instead followed China's route.

 

The "experts"  have estimated with their computer models that millions where saved.

If you didn't see bodies piled up around the world as well as people begging for shots and hosptial beds and incubators  or anything to stop the carnage then I can't help you as it was everywhere  with live reports on the web and tv daily. 

 

I suppose u would prefer that they moved very slowly to try and come up with a new vaccine...maybe run clinical trials for a few years til a billion or so people were dead? 

 

It was a horrible disease worldwide so you can either sit on the sidelines and do nothing for fear of not getting a vax 100% safe (never happen) or claim it was all some big hoax and everybody would have been better off to just let it run its course.

[pomchop]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

As oppposed to so many other countries where people were forced to get vaccinated otherwise they would lose their jobs. Young healthy people. Why? 

Because older not so healthy people who work with and interact with these unvaxxed "young healthy " people would be more likely to be  infected and spread the virus to others who could very likely have a very bad hospitalization and maybe even DIE. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

 How about the fact that mRNA spike proteins are found throughout the body when the manufacturers of said product said this would not be the case.

A study involving rats showed a wide systemic distibution of spike proteinsand this was before the emergency approaval of the mRNA vaccines. The public were told that it stays in the deltoid muscle. Clear misinformation.

 

https://www.tga.gov.au/sites/default/files/foi-2389-06.pdf

 

 

From the actual report you're citing as its conclusions for the data in your chart:

 

"Conclusions

• Slow but significant distribution of lipid nanoparticles from the site of injection with major uptake into liver.
• Minor distribution in spleen, adrenal glands and ovaries over 48 h"

All of the above pretty much a nothing burger, as explained below:

 

How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body?

 

November 1, 2022

 

"Here we break down the data to show where mRNA vaccines (and spike proteins) travel in the body. There is no evidence that any mRNA or protein accumulates in any organ."

...

Where does the vaccine go?

Here's a peer-reviewed study that shows where intramuscular vaccines (which all three of the COVID-19 vaccines are) travel in macaques (a type of monkey). Vaccines mostly remain near the site of injection (the arm muscle) and local lymph nodes. 

...

Another peer-reviewed study tested exactly where an mRNA vaccine went in mice. Most of the mRNA vaccine stayed in the injection site muscle – where you get the shot. Look at Table 1. A lot of mRNA vaccine was found in local lymph nodes, which peaked about eight hours after the shot was given. A much smaller amount of mRNA vaccine went to farther away lymph nodes."

 

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/where-mrna-vaccines-and-spike-proteins-go

 

 

"The mRNA from the vaccines is broken down within a few days after vaccination and discarded from the body."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/overview-COVID-19-vaccines.html

 

 

"Within a matter of days, the mRNA from the vaccine is destroyed by your cells, leaving no permanent mark on your body."

 

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/what-to-know-about-the-covid-19-vaccine

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

16 minutes ago, pomchop said:

Because older not so healthy people who work with and interact with these unvaxxed "young healthy " people would be more likely to be  infected and spread the virus to others who could very likely have a very bad hospitalization and maybe even DIE. 

Because older not so healthy people who work with and interact with these unvaxxed "young healthy " people would be more likely to be  infected and spread the virus to others who could very likely have a very bad hospitalization and maybe even DIE. 

Yep, suggested perhaps likely maybe...

But more relevant > When infected by Covid the symptoms are suppressed in the vaccinated so they are actually MORE likely to unwittingly spread it, than the unvaccinated who simply would stay home when feeling unwell.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

12 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

But more relevant > When infected by Covid the symptoms are suppressed in the vaccinated so they are actually MORE likely to unwittingly spread it, than the unvaccinated who simply would stay home when feeling unwell.

 

Or not.....

 

Dec 5, 2023

 

"Studies designed to accurately assess vaccine impact on COVID transmission also show that vaccination DOES reduce the chance of person-to-person spread of the virus."

 

https://www.unmc.edu/healthsecurity/transmission/2023/12/05/get-your-updated-covid-vaccine/

 

[dinsdale]

37 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

From the actual report you're citing as its conclusions for the data in your chart:

 

"Conclusions

• Slow but significant distribution of lipid nanoparticles from the site of injection with major uptake into liver.
• Minor distribution in spleen, adrenal glands and ovaries over 48 h"

All of the above pretty much a nothing burger, as explained below:

 

How long do mRNA and spike proteins last in the body?

 

November 1, 2022

 

"Here we break down the data to show where mRNA vaccines (and spike proteins) travel in the body. There is no evidence that any mRNA or protein accumulates in any organ."

...

Where does the vaccine go?

Here's a peer-reviewed study that shows where intramuscular vaccines (which all three of the COVID-19 vaccines are) travel in macaques (a type of monkey). Vaccines mostly remain near the site of injection (the arm muscle) and local lymph nodes. 

...

Another peer-reviewed study tested exactly where an mRNA vaccine went in mice. Most of the mRNA vaccine stayed in the injection site muscle – where you get the shot. Look at Table 1. A lot of mRNA vaccine was found in local lymph nodes, which peaked about eight hours after the shot was given. A much smaller amount of mRNA vaccine went to farther away lymph nodes."

 

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/where-mrna-vaccines-and-spike-proteins-go

 

 

"The mRNA from the vaccines is broken down within a few days after vaccination and discarded from the body."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/overview-COVID-19-vaccines.html

 

 

"Within a matter of days, the mRNA from the vaccine is destroyed by your cells, leaving no permanent mark on your body."

 

https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/what-to-know-about-the-covid-19-vaccine

 

 

It's 48 hrs because they didn't test after that.

[sandyf]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:57 AM, jaywalker2 said:

It has never been approved for us in the US. That's just a fact. Its use was suspended in the EU because of the blood clot problem. It has since also been taken off the market in the UK.

 

The mRNA vaccines have proven both more effective and safer, according to health experts.

 

 

More disinformation

AZ never even applied for FDA approval due to insufficient production.

Some countries discontinued the use of AZ due to adverse media allegations that were never proven, the vaccine is still being produced.

One thing that has been proven, a friend of mine contracted Bullous Pemphigold as a result of the mRNA vaccine, his first 2 shots of AZ had no adverse effects.

[dinsdale]

There are people for whom the vaccine is probably a good thing and then there are those where it's not needed. Now it's Omicron this is certainly the case evidenced by govts recommending jabs only for the vulnurable and those over a particular age. I think in the UK it's now 70 yrs old.

[Red Phoenix]

6 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

There are people for whom the vaccine is probably a good thing and then there are those where it's not needed. Now it's Omicron this is certainly the case evidenced by govts recommending jabs only for the vulnerable and those over a particular age. I think in the UK it's now 70 yrs old.

@dinsdale > The large majority of your posts in this thread I wholeheartedly agree with.  But you are currently in a somewhat uncomfortable position.  You are still praising the merits of the jabs while at same time being 'accused' by the covid jab-enthusiasts of being a loony anti-vax conspiracy adept.  A bit like dr John Campbell who started as a pure sang covid-jab Believer, and had the genuine intent of providing accurate information to his viewers about the subject, but gradually - as the evidence kept on accumulating - came to realize that the holes in the official narrative were too big to be ignored.  To his credit he is still providing accurate information even though he is now Persona Non Grata to many of his previous audience.  And unfortunately he must walk on eggshells in his current videos as he cannot show the back of his tongue as that would mean him being banned from YouTube.  Hence he lets his audience draw their conclusions from the data he presents, by asking rhetorical questions.  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

45 minutes ago, sandyf said:

More disinformation

AZ never even applied for FDA approval due to insufficient production.

Some countries discontinued the use of AZ due to adverse media allegations that were never proven, the vaccine is still being produced.

One thing that has been proven, a friend of mine contracted Bullous Pemphigold as a result of the mRNA vaccine, his first 2 shots of AZ had no adverse effects.

 

AZ had been actively pursuing approval for its COVID vaccine in the U.S. up through 2021, including running clinical trials in the country. But ran into the documented problem of very rare but serious blood clots once the AZ vaccine began widespread use in Europe.  That led the U.S. FDA to demand more detailed submissions from AZ, and in the end, AZ withdrew from submitting a formal request for emergency use authorization.

 

AstraZeneca withdraws US COVID vaccine application, shifts focus to antibody treatments

Nov 10, 2022

 

"After missing the boat for emergency use of COVID-19 vaccines, AstraZeneca has finally pulled the plug on efforts to sell its shot in the U.S. 

 

AstraZeneca has decided to withdraw its application for COVID vaccine Vaxzevria with the FDA, CEO Pascal Soriot told reporters during a press briefing Thursday.

...

Because the FDA has already fully approved mRNA vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, the agency’s emergency use authorization pathway for other vaccines is closed."

 

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-withdraws-us-covid-vaccine-application-focus-shifts-antibody-treatments

 

 

FDA wants 'significant' amount of extra data on AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine

AstraZeneca had anticipated applying for emergency use authorization in the U.S. in either late March or early April.

 

May 1, 2021

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-wants-significant-amount-extra-data-astrazeneca-s-covid-vaccine-n1265760

 

 

The U.S. Is Sitting on Tens of Millions of Vaccine Doses the World Needs

Those tens of millions of doses from AstraZeneca are waiting for trial results, while countries that authorized the vaccine beg to have them.

 

March 11, 2021

 

"WASHINGTON — Tens of millions of doses of the coronavirus vaccine made by the British-Swedish company AstraZeneca are sitting idly in American manufacturing facilities, awaiting results from its U.S. clinical trial while countries that have authorized its use beg for access."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/11/us/politics/coronavirus-astrazeneca-united-states.html

 

AstraZeneca Covid vaccine: safety and side effects

Updated 25 January 2023

Is the AstraZeneca vaccine still being used in the UK?

No, the UK government is not ordering future supplies of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine.

Evidence shows that mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, are more effective at boosting protection from Covid-19, so these vaccines are being recommended for the seasonal booster programme.

...

Can the AstraZeneca vaccine cause blood clots?

There have been rare reports of people developing blood clots in combination with low platelet levels (thrombocytopenia), after receiving a dose of the Oxford/AstraZeneca in the UK. This is listed as a ‘very rare’ side effect of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

 

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

To his credit he is still providing accurate information even though he is now Persona Non Grata to many of his previous audience. 

 

Hardly...as shown below. He's been responsible a long list of misleading info or misinformation claims regarding COVID:

 

 

 

 

https://healthfeedback.org/authors/john-campbell/