Controversy erupts as Thai doctors clash over mRNA vaccine effect

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, PremiumLane said:

Anyone who uses "Dr" John Cambbell as a source, should just be laughed at.  The dude is a moron. Check our Debunk the Funk and Dr. Susan Oliver for the debunking of Cambell's moronic takes on vaccines and Covid. 

Dr. Susan Oliver was often on TV pushing the narrative. Bit like saying Fauchi tells the truth really. 

[dinsdale]

7 minutes ago, PremiumLane said:

 

They have, it was called Covid, now please do show the evidence that it was vaccines.... 

Again you seem to be one that doesn't understand the excess death numbers seen globally. The excess death numbers include but are not limited to deaths attributed to Cov19. The question is what is causing the excess deaths over and above that attributed to Cov19? This is not being investigated or even discussed by governments and is not to be found on or in legacy media. Why?

[tubby johnson]

20 hours ago, smedly said:

excess deaths still need an explanation which has not been forthcoming 

 

The excess deaths are due to climate change.

 

Global Boiling!

 

Trust the WHO and the UN! Take the jab !!!

[Roo Island]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

What if the youtubers are following the science and governments aren't.

Pure conspiracy.

[dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Roo Island said:

Pure conspiracy.

Indeed. I trust this man. Gain of function research? No way. We changed the definition. Lab leak? Uh uh! Wet market. Vaccines are safe? Of course they are.

 

Edited February 22 by dinsdale

[charleskerins]

19 hours ago, ChrisParis75 said:

 

What's the purpose of your insults ? To hide your fear ?

 

Let's forget about thoses "white clots".

 

Are you aware that the LARGEST VACCINE EFFECTS STUDY has just been published ?

 

99 millions of vaccinated individuals.

 

Findings ?

 

Risks for myocarditis, Moderna 2nd dose : 6.1 times higher

Risks for myocarditis, Pfizer 1 dose : 2.78 times higher

Risks for myocarditis, Pfizer 2nd dose : 2.86 times higher

Risk for pericarditis, Astra Zeneca, 3rd dose : 6.91 times higher

Risk for Swelling of brain, and spinal cord, Moderna, 1st dose : 3.78 times higher

Risk for blood clots, Astrazeneca : 3.23 times higher

 

etc.

 

Enjoy your products "safe and effective".

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13100755/Largest-Covid-vaccine-study-finds-shots-linked-small-increased-risk-neurological-blood-heart-disorders-extremely-rare.html

 

So now you might be able to understand that yes... with such higher risks... vaccinated people were wounded and some of them even died, inevitably.

What's their risk of dying from Covid?

[johng]

4 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

What's their risk of dying from Covid?

 

Glad you asked

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9613797/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013–0.056%) for the 0–59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036–0.119%) for the 0–69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0–19 years, 0.002% at 20–29 years, 0.011% at 30–39 years, 0.035% at 40–49 years, 0.123% at 50–59 years, and 0.506% at 60–69 years. IFR increases approximately 4 times every 10 years. Including data from another 9 countries with imputed age distribution of COVID-19 deaths yielded median IFR of 0.025–0.032% for 0–59 years and 0.063–0.082% for 0–69 years. Meta-regression analyses also suggested global IFR of 0.03% and 0.07%, respectively in these age groups. The current analysis suggests a much lower pre-vaccination IFR in non-elderly populations than previously suggested.

[Bday Prang]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

 

Not on politically motivated lies.

               Nobody on here  questioning the safety of the vaccines or the reason behind so many excess deaths. is lying, they are "questioning"   What possible political motivation have any of us got for simply asking questions ?  And why is it making certain people on here so very uncomfortable?  

                I had three vaxes, what's done is done  if I die as a result  then so be it   I made the decision, and i'll accept responsibility for what ever consequences I suffer, I never suggested that anybody else should or shouldn't get vaccinated,  why would I ?     so my conscience is not bothering me at all.

                But if I had been very vocally active on here and / or elsewhere,  like a few on here,  berating, insulting , and compelling others to get vaccinated  at all costs, I  might feel  a little bit differently     if it turned out that the vaccine was not as safe as I had  lead them to believe,   who would want to carry that guilt around with them ?  could that be the reason why the same few on here, and elsewhere  now wish to stop others asking awkward questions. and will quickly try to dismiss any emerging  negative  reports as conspiracy theories or indeed as "politically motivated lies"

                No members of the public should ever have  put any pressure on others regarding getting vaccinated or not, that is the responsibility of the authorities, and  there is good reason why all those involved, in positions of authority, all  protected themselves with  hastily written "no liability" clauses

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

The "excess deaths" issue is a favorite anti-vaxer trope. But the substance HAS been looked at and assessed by numerous credible sources, and found NOT to be related to COVID vaccinations:

 

For example:

Fact Check: No evidence to link UK excess deaths to COVID-19 vaccines

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/no-evidence-link-uk-excess-deaths-covid-19-vaccines-2024-02-06/

 

No Evidence Excess Deaths Linked to Vaccines, Contrary to Claims Online

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/scicheck-no-evidence-excess-deaths-linked-to-vaccines-contrary-to-claims-online/

 

New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are Actually Uncounted COVID-19 Deaths 

 

https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2024/new-analysis-reveals-many-excess-deaths-attributed-to-natural-causes-are-actually-uncounted-covid-19-deaths/

 

 

 

 

[charleskerins]

10 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Well I wouldn't expect people who have had multiple shots of the stuff to say any otherwise, that is an integral part of the problem, people just don't like admitting they were wrong.

They interviewed the 319,000 people that would have survived Covid if they had taken the vaccine -they didn't admit they were wrong  they were unable to speak.

[smedly]

1 hour ago, PremiumLane said:

 

They have, it was called Covid, now please do show the evidence that it was vaccines.... 

I don't have access to all the information, all I know the numbers of excess deaths post covid which IMO warrants a look into and an explanation

[johng]

3 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

the 319,000 people that would have survived Covid if they had taken the vaccine

There is no proof that they would have survived, it's impossible to say they would or would not have had a better outcome from the shot.

 

+ they can't be interviewed 

 

+

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9613797/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013–0.056%) for the 0–59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036–0.119%) for the 0–69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0–19 years, 0.002% at 20–29 years, 0.011% at 30–39 years, 0.035% at 40–49 years, 0.123% at 50–59 years, and 0.506% at 60–69 years. IFR increases approximately 4 times every 10 years. Including data from another 9 countries with imputed age distribution of COVID-19 deaths yielded median IFR of 0.025–0.032% for 0–59 years and 0.063–0.082% for 0–69 years. Meta-regression analyses also suggested global IFR of 0.03% and 0.07%, respectively in these age groups. The current analysis suggests a much lower pre-vaccination IFR in non-elderly populations than previously suggested.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 minutes ago, johng said:

 

Glad you asked

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9613797/

 

The IFRs had a median of 0.034% (interquartile range (IQR) 0.013–0.056%) for the 0–59 years old population, and 0.095% (IQR 0.036–0.119%) for the 0–69 years old. The median IFR was 0.0003% at 0–19 years, 0.002% at 20–29 years, 0.011% at 30–39 years, 0.035% at 40–49 years, 0.123% at 50–59 years, and 0.506% at 60–69 years. IFR increases approximately 4 times every 10 years. Including data from another 9 countries with imputed age distribution of COVID-19 deaths yielded median IFR of 0.025–0.032% for 0–59 years and 0.063–0.082% for 0–69 years. Meta-regression analyses also suggested global IFR of 0.03% and 0.07%, respectively in these age groups. The current analysis suggests a much lower pre-vaccination IFR in non-elderly populations than previously suggested.

 

 

From the same researcher (John Ioannidis) who once predicted at the outset of the pandemic that the U.S. might have 10,000 deaths from COVID. (The official number is now at almost 1.2 million. Wrong just a little...

 

"If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from “influenza-like illness.”

 

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

 

 

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#datatracker-home

 

 

 

[Bday Prang]

10 minutes ago, charleskerins said:

They interviewed the 319,000 people that would have survived Covid if they had taken the vaccine -they didn't admit they were wrong  they were unable to speak.

How on earth can it be proved that  these 319,000 people would have survived if they had taken the vaccine?  total rubbish.   plenty of vaccinated people died from covid, plenty of unvaccinated people did not.  

[dinsdale]

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The "excess deaths" issue is a favorite anti-vaxer trope. But the substance HAS been looked at and assessed by numerous credible sources, and found NOT to be related to COVID vaccinations:

 

For example:

Fact Check: No evidence to link UK excess deaths to COVID-19 vaccines

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/no-evidence-link-uk-excess-deaths-covid-19-vaccines-2024-02-06/

 

No Evidence Excess Deaths Linked to Vaccines, Contrary to Claims Online

 

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/04/scicheck-no-evidence-excess-deaths-linked-to-vaccines-contrary-to-claims-online/

 

New Analysis Reveals Many Excess Deaths Attributed to Natural Causes Are Actually Uncounted COVID-19 Deaths 

 

https://www.bu.edu/sph/news/articles/2024/new-analysis-reveals-many-excess-deaths-attributed-to-natural-causes-are-actually-uncounted-covid-19-deaths/

 

 

 

 

 

Anti-vaxer???? What are you on about. I would suggest that those who question mRNA vaccines are not anti-vaxers. I know I'm not. What complete drivel. As for evidence of mRNA covid jabs linked to excess deaths well that's what needs investigating, however, it cannot be denied that said vaccines are not linked to deaths and injuries. This is documented and indisputable.  Now we have these white clots? What are they?

Edited February 22 by dinsdale

[johng]

23 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Fact Check: No evidence to link UK excess deaths to COVID-19 vaccines

The "fact checkers"  have arrived.

 

Experts in their fields are asking questions.

 

"fact checkers"

Just get it through your thick "antivaxer"  "right wing"

"conspiracy theorist"  skulls  it can not be the vaccines 

ok the "experts"  have spoken now shut up !  

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Vanishingly small numbers of actual vaccine related deaths and injuries compared to the many tens of millions of lives saved by COVID vaccinations.

 

• Evidence from the more than 13 billions of vaccine doses given worldwide shows that COVID-19 vaccines have a very good safety profile in all age groups. The benefits of the approved vaccines far outweigh the possible risks.

...

• As for all medicines, reports of medical events after COVID-19 vaccination (suspected side effects) are collected and continuously evaluated by the authorities. These evaluations show that in most cases the medical events were not caused by the vaccine.
• There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines have contributed to excess mortality during the pandemic. Excess mortality largely coincides with peaks of SARS-CoV-2 infections, particularly during the first waves when vaccines were not available. In fact, there is strong evidence that COVID-19 vaccines save lives and prevent the serious harm associated with SARS-CoV-2 infection.

 

https://www.icmra.info/drupal/en/strategicinitiatives/vaccines/safety_statement

 

About ICMRA
ICMRA brings together 38 medicines regulatory authorities from every region in the world, with the WHO as an observer.

 

 

 

 

[dinsdale]

No benefit for me mate. My jabs were years ago now and I've had covid recently. I was fine (bit sick for a few days but nothing as bad as a heavy cold) and I'm not a youngster and I have some underlying issues. Now you tell me the benefit for a fit and healthy teenager and please remember it is now Omicron which for the majority is a mild virul infection.

Edited February 22 by dinsdale

[johng]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

compared to the many tens of millions of lives saved by COVID vaccinations.

How do they calculated this ?  have they invented a time machine creating a parallel timeline  in which  no one was vaccinated against the virus  and compared it to our own timeline ?

[transam]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

No benefit for me mate. My jabs were years ago now and I've had covid recently. I was fine (bit sick for a few days but nothing as bad as a heavy cold) and I'm not a youngster and I have some underlying issues. Now you tell me the benefit for a fit and healthy teenager. 

Do I recall that you pooh pooh anything to do with covid as "nothing" when covid was at its height....?🤔

[dinsdale]

Just now, transam said:

Do I recall that you pooh pooh anything to do with covid as "nothing" when covid was at its height....?🤔

No you don't. In fact in the beginning I believed the narrative. I no longer do. It's a bit like growing up and realising God, Santa, the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny don't exist.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Lives saved by COVID‐19 vaccines

Outside clinical trials, the first COVID‐19 vaccine was administered on 8 December 2020. Researchers aimed to quantify the global impact of the first year of COVID‐19 vaccination programmes using mathematical modelling to fit COVID‐19 transmission and vaccination to reported COVID‐19 mortality and all‐cause excess mortality in 185 countries and territories. ¹ They determined the number of lives lost if there had been no vaccines. Based on reported COVID‐19 deaths, vaccinations prevented an estimated 14.4 million deaths (95% credible interval [Crl] 13.7–15.9) from COVID‐19 in a year. However, if excess deaths were used, this estimate rose to 19.8 million (95% Crl 19.1–20.4) deaths prevented (Fig. 1), equating to a global reduction of 63% in total deaths (19.8 million of 31.4 million)

during the first year of COVID‐19 vaccination. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9537923/

 

 

COVID vaccines saved 20M lives in 1st year, scientists say

 

Nearly 20 million lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccines during their first year, but even more deaths could have been prevented if international targets for the shots had been reached, researchers reported Thursday.

 

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5

 

 

Edited February 22 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Bday Prang]

"Nearly 20 million lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccines during their first year, but even more deaths could have been prevented if international targets for the shots had been reached, researchers reported Thursday."

 

 

so there we have it then "absolute proof" not only that the vaccine saved 20 million lives,  but also  absolute proof that the "international targets" were totally correct too.

Would anybody have expected the research to show anything to the contrary considering who paid for it ....

 

Funding came from several groups including the WHO; the UK Medical Research Council; Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance; and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

 

sorry not convinced !

[johng]

15 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

mathematical modelling

This here is all one needs to know... as I suspected they did not invent a time machine creating an alternate timeline and compare the outcomes from the vaxed vs unvaxed timelines.  it's a mathematical model 

ie a hypothesis or theory  maybe just a guesstimate.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Bday Prang said:

"Nearly 20 million lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccines during their first year, but even more deaths could have been prevented if international targets for the shots had been reached, researchers reported Thursday."

 

 

so there we have it then "absolute proof" not only that the vaccine saved 20 million lives,  but also  absolute proof that the "international targets" were totally correct too.

Would anybody have expected the research to show anything to the contrary considering who paid for it ....

 

Funding came from several groups including the WHO; the UK Medical Research Council; Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance; and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

 

sorry not convinced !

Agree. Doctors and scientists at the time and still are being pressured or down right threatened to toe the line. Publications in agreeance with the narrative were published and those that weren't with the narrative were not. Social media was and still is being censored. If everything was and is what they say then why is there suppression and censorship? Why has freedom of speech diminished so much since 2020? If I was veiwing this from the outside I would strongly suspect something was being covered up.

[charleskerins]

45 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Lives saved by COVID‐19 vaccines

Outside clinical trials, the first COVID‐19 vaccine was administered on 8 December 2020. Researchers aimed to quantify the global impact of the first year of COVID‐19 vaccination programmes using mathematical modelling to fit COVID‐19 transmission and vaccination to reported COVID‐19 mortality and all‐cause excess mortality in 185 countries and territories. ¹ They determined the number of lives lost if there had been no vaccines. Based on reported COVID‐19 deaths, vaccinations prevented an estimated 14.4 million deaths (95% credible interval [Crl] 13.7–15.9) from COVID‐19 in a year. However, if excess deaths were used, this estimate rose to 19.8 million (95% Crl 19.1–20.4) deaths prevented (Fig. 1), equating to a global reduction of 63% in total deaths (19.8 million of 31.4 million)

during the first year of COVID‐19 vaccination. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9537923/

 

 

COVID vaccines saved 20M lives in 1st year, scientists say

 

Nearly 20 million lives were saved by COVID-19 vaccines during their first year, but even more deaths could have been prevented if international targets for the shots had been reached, researchers reported Thursday.

 

https://apnews.com/article/covid-science-health-england-54d29ae3af5c700f15d704c14ee224b5

 

 

How dare you post scientific analysis  ?   A disgruntled Air Force officer that interviewed  some embalmers is far more adroit in Covid Research.

[charleskerins]

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I agree except for the medical professional part. This will be true of those following the narrative but not of all medical professionals. It will also get all those protecting the narrative through things like censorship, defunding, threats against employment and of course those who blindly follow and accept said narrative reacting against any challenge. These clots are new and need serious investigation as to their cause as does the cause of excess deaths over and above that of excess deaths attributed to Cov19.

"Dr" John Campbell purveyor of misinformation    https://healthfeedback.org/authors/john-campbell/

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Your the one who always calls for citations so where's one for this. As for excess deaths, deaths attributed to covid are of both vaccinated and unvaccinated. The concern is the excess deaths over and above those attributed to covid.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/14/us/covid-19-death-toll.html

 

It sounds like you don't understand the concept of excess deaths.

[charleskerins]

5 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

No posts/likes ratio anymore or haven't you noticed. Guess you'll be off then to crack yourself up a bit more.

My post was not referencing that ratio and you didn't notice ,no surprise .Read it a couple times and you might be able to figure it out.  Need a hint?  Math is your friend.

[Paris333]

Who told you that minors do not belong to vulnerable groups?

The World Health Organization asked China to provide more information on the increase in respiratory diseases and reported clusters of undiagnosed pneumonia in children.
The World Health Organization's (WHO) formal request to China for epidemiological and clinical information, as well as laboratory results, comes in the wake of reports from Chinese authorities, media and disease surveillance systems indicating an increase in these flu-like diseases in the country.
While these outbreaks may well be linked to China lifting its restrictions on COVID-19 later than other countries and to commonly circulating winter respiratory viruses, the WHO's statement will cause concern over claims that China is delaying in warning the world about COVID-19 outbreaks in 2019.
Source:

https://www.politico.eu/article/who-asks-china-for-more-information-on-clusters-of-pneumonia-in-children/