Potential dangers of kratom

[GroveHillWanderer]

Just a heads-up, in case anyone's interested.

 

According to the article below:

 

Quote

[Kratom] was listed as contributing to or causing at least 4,100 deaths in 44 states and D.C. between 2020 and 2022.

 

They take kratom to ease pain or anxiety. Sometimes, death follows

 

However, the piece does go on to say that:

 

Quote

The vast majority of those cases involved other drugs in addition to kratom

 

To provide a counterpoint, it also has the following:

 

Quote

The American Kratom Association [...] insists the herb is safe and that if there are dangerous products, they’re coming from unscrupulous companies.

 

[JackGats]

"4100 deaths" because of kratom? Within 2 years?

 

I thought the Washington Post would be above peddling such lies. I assume they got a paycheck from whoever wants kratom to be more banned than it is already.

[Lacessit]

Combining any drugs which have synergy can lead to serious side effects.

I use a small dose of kratom twice a week for back pain. About six hours relief. AFAICT there are no deleterious effects.

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, JackGats said:

"4100 deaths" because of kratom? Within 2 years?

 

I thought the Washington Post would be above peddling such lies. I assume they got a paycheck from whoever wants kratom to be more banned than it is already.

 

Hardly limited to the Washington Post.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171

 

 

Kratom products are not regulated or tested  in the US so actual amount iof active ingrediant can be all over the map,  not contamination with other substances is always a possibility:

 

 "Harmful contaminants such as heavy metals and disease-causing bacteria have been found in some kratom products." https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/kratom

 

There is also the possible issue of drug interactions in people on other medications or using other substances, there is as yet insufficient information available on its interactions, again because not classed as a pharmaeceutical agent in most countries.

[JackGats]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

Hardly limited to the Washington Post.

 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/in-depth/kratom/art-20402171

 

 

...

Mayo clinic: "As of April 2018, more than 130 people in 38 states became ill with Salmonella after taking kratom. Salmonella poisoning may be fatal, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has linked more than 35 deaths to Salmonella-tainted kratom."

 

Hardly 4000 deaths in 2 years. Salmonella? How many people got salmonella after eating Tiramisu (or other food containing raw eggs).? The dishonesty of warriors-of-drugs knows no bounds.

[Sheryl]

27 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Mayo clinic: "As of April 2018, more than 130 people in 38 states became ill with Salmonella after taking kratom. Salmonella poisoning may be fatal, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has linked more than 35 deaths to Salmonella-tainted kratom."

 

Hardly 4000 deaths in 2 years. 

 Yoy are confusing different reports pertaining to different issues and different time periods.

 

The 4,100 cases mentioned in the Washington Post occurred between 2020 - 2022 and included outright overdoses (consumption of many fold the safe dose) and muxture with other drugs. No reference to the salmonella cases.

 

Citing potential risks and need for product regulation is not "anti-drug", it is common sense.  None of these sites are advocating a ban. Just highlighting the risks when a pharmacoactive substance is not regulated as such. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, JackGats said:

"4100 deaths" because of kratom? Within 2 years?

 

I thought the Washington Post would be above peddling such lies. I assume they got a paycheck from whoever wants kratom to be more banned than it is already.

Did you even bother reading the article - or for that matter, the quotes from it that I included?

 

Both the article, and the quotes I gave, make it perfectly clear that kratom did not cause 4,100 deaths in two years in the states.

 

It was listed as either the cause, or a contributory factor. And again, without wanting to sound like a broken record here, both my post and the article are clear about the fact that, "The vast majority of those cases involved other drugs ..."

 

Also, these figures are quite clearly not lies - they are taken directly from coroners' reports which are a matter of public record and freely available to anyone who cares to look them up. 

 

As Sheryl pointed out, no-one here (nor the article) is calling for a ban, it's simply a question of pointing out some of the potential dangers for people to be aware of - especially if mixing kratom with other drugs.

[ABCDBKK]

Kratom's risks include potential dependence, addiction, and adverse effects such as nausea, constipation, and in severe cases, respiratory depression.

 

It provides a euphoric feeling and as a result has similar dependency risks as opioids. A number of locals have talked about their teenage children having gotten badly hooked on it. 

[JackGats]

12 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Did you even bother reading the article - or for that matter, the quotes from it that I included?

 

Both the article, and the quotes I gave, make it perfectly clear that kratom did not cause 4,100 deaths in two years in the states.

 

It was listed as either the cause, or a contributory factor. And again, without wanting to sound like a broken record here, both my post and the article are clear about the fact that, "The vast majority of those cases involved other drugs ..."

 

Also, these figures are quite clearly not lies - they are taken directly from coroners' reports which are a matter of public record and freely available to anyone who cares to look them up. 

 

As Sheryl pointed out, no-one here (nor the article) is calling for a ban, it's simply a question of pointing out some of the potential dangers for people to be aware of - especially if mixing kratom with other drugs.

The Washington Post article was entitled "They take kratom to ease pain, sometimes death follows". Why wasn't it entitled "Kratom is safe unless it involves other drugs", if that's what the article was apparently "clear about"? 

 

The article was scare-mongering. People remember titles, not the fine print.

[Skipalongcassidy]

8 minutes ago, JackGats said:

The Washington Post article was entitled "They take kratom to ease pain, sometimes death follows". Why wasn't it entitled "Kratom is safe unless it involves other drugs", if that's what the article was apparently "clear about"? 

 

The article was scare-mongering. People remember titles, not the fine print.

Because nobody would read it... that's the media for you.

[JackGats]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Because nobody would read it... that's the media for you.

Exactly. And the media know that. They print the message they want to convey in the title and the first two paragraphs. Then they print the correcting facts and the balanced assessment right at the end, in order to hedge against any accusation of dishonesty like the one I'm levelling here.

 

Alas, it works only to well.

[Skipalongcassidy]

21 hours ago, JackGats said:

Exactly. And the media know that. They print the message they want to convey in the title and the first two paragraphs. Then they print the correcting facts and the balanced assessment right at the end, in order to hedge against any accusation of dishonesty like the one I'm levelling here.

 

Alas, it works only to well.

Misinformation has become a part of life... funny how when fact checked liberal left media has more retractions than conservative right media... 

[alanrchase]

7 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Misinformation has become a part of life... funny how when fact checked liberal left media has more retractions than conservative right media... 

Fox got stung for $750 million because they wouldn't retract what they broadcast. Seems at least the liberal media has enough sense and integrity to post retractions when their reporting is incorrect. 

[Freddy42OZ]

On 2/25/2024 at 8:22 AM, Skipalongcassidy said:

Because nobody would read it... that's the media for you.

 

It's not the media, it's people.  They click on the headlines that sounds the most salacious, most likely to confirm their existing bias or that most anger them.  

The masses are mostly a bunch of morons.  

 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

Misinformation has become a part of life... funny how when fact checked liberal left media has more retractions than conservative right media... 

Has it occurred to you that may be because they are more honest when they make a mistake?

When have you seen Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity or Alex Jones ever admit they screwed the pooch?

[Lacessit]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:59 PM, ABCDBKK said:

Kratom's risks include potential dependence, addiction, and adverse effects such as nausea, constipation, and in severe cases, respiratory depression.

 

It provides a euphoric feeling and as a result has similar dependency risks as opioids. A number of locals have talked about their teenage children having gotten badly hooked on it. 

I get very mild euphoria for about 5-10 minutes. Pain relief lasts 5 - 6 hours.

[The Old Bull]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:09 PM, JackGats said:

"4100 deaths" because of kratom? Within 2 years?

 

I thought the Washington Post would be above peddling such lies. I assume they got a paycheck from whoever wants kratom to be more banned than it is already.

Sounds like "reefer madness" descendants the next generation.

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I get very mild euphoria for about 5-10 minutes. Pain relief lasts 5 - 6 hours.

 

I've just had a surgical procedure (on my leg)....  its quite painful and I have some 'gummies' ready to assist with sleep, but don't want to be taking those every night (its going to be a long recovery).... 

 

So... I'm thinking of mixing this up with a 'bit of Krathom'....  but know nothing about the subject at all  (I think I've mentioned this in other replies on this thread - specifically to you Lacessit, if I'm not mistaken). 

 

What advice would you give - recently operated on (nothing major, just ligaments), but seeking some pain relief.... 

 

And I don't want to end up taking a a few glasses of whisky every night so I'm open to alternatives and not fearful of something such as Krathom... 

 

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

 

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

 

 

I'm not worried about getting addicted... I have sleeping tablets, Xanax, Clonozopam etc left over from similar times in the past when I wish to sleep better post injury / surgery...  and I have no issues managing that, so I'm not concerned. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ebumbu]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

 

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

 

Line Shopping. Search for red Kratom. It lifts mood and suppresses pain to an extent I didn't believe possible. 

[richard_smith237]

4 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

 

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

 

Line Shopping. Search for red Kratom. It lifts mood and suppresses pain to an extent I didn't believe possible. 

 

Thanks....  Its a wonder why they didn't give me this in hospital... because Tramadol did naff all !!!... 

 

 

[NickyLouie]

32 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I get very mild euphoria for about 5-10 minutes. Pain relief lasts 5 - 6 hours.

 

Yah, it's a great high.

But the plant itself has very similar pharmacology to opiates thus very addictive.

The open sellers around me have all been getting shut down after the crazy legalization of weed and kratom.

   

[richard_smith237]

6 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Line Shopping. Search for red Kratom. It lifts mood and suppresses pain to an extent I didn't believe possible. 

 

Ok... So Wife just told me its everywhere, even on our soi... But until I get my 'eye in' I'm oblivious to noticing this stuff... 

 

But I do wonder what else they put in it... Wifey mentioned that it makes people hyper, so I'm assuming the 'on street' potions are loaded with 'additional' stuff (i.e. highly caffeinated etc) which I don't want... 

 

... I don't mind a little buzz and pain relief, but don't want all the other stuff which may make me a little hyper.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I've just had a surgical procedure (on my leg)....  its quite painful and I have some 'gummies' ready to assist with sleep, but don't want to be taking those every night (its going to be a long recovery).... 

 

So... I'm thinking of mixing this up with a 'bit of Krathom'....  but know nothing about the subject at all  (I think I've mentioned this in other replies on this thread - specifically to you Lacessit, if I'm not mistaken). 

 

What advice would you give - recently operated on (nothing major, just ligaments), but seeking some pain relief.... 

 

And I don't want to end up taking a a few glasses of whisky every night so I'm open to alternatives and not fearful of something such as Krathom... 

 

Also - where to get it from, buy the stuff on the street ?.... or from elsewhere.

 

If so, where on the street ? (in central Bangkok for example).

 

 

I'm not worried about getting addicted... I have sleeping tablets, Xanax, Clonozopam etc left over from similar times in the past when I wish to sleep better post injury / surgery...  and I have no issues managing that, so I'm not concerned. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can buy kratom on Lazada. It comes in powder or leaf form, quite inexpensive.

As I understand my supplier's process, it consists of macerating 100 leaves, and extracting the kratom by boiling in 6 litres of water. Refrigerate after cooling. Shake well.

I take a modest dose, half a cup. YMMV. I find it works best on an empty stomach, although I do have a bit of mango or pineapple to offset the bitter taste.

Normally, when I play golf, I have moderate hip, quad, and back pain. Kratom enables freedom of movement without pain.

As I understand it, synthetic opiates such as tramadol, oxycodone and morphine block specific pain receptors, whereas kratom blocks them all.

Good luck.

[JackGats]

Markets where fresh food like vegies and fruit are sold will generally have someone selling kratom "tea" from an ice box. Just ask and they will point you to the general direction where that someone is sitting. It's good to stick to the same provider so you can rely on the brew's strength.

[JackGats]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

.. Wifey mentioned that it makes people hyper, so I'm assuming the 'on street' potions are loaded with 'additional' stuff (i.e. highly caffeinated etc) which I don't want... 

 

... I don't mind a little buzz and pain relief, but don't want all the other stuff which may make me a little hyper.

Kratom is known to produce some stimulating euphoria right after it kicks in. Later on it makes you want to lie down. At 60 baht per bottle I don't think they would bother to add any "other stuff".

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Kratom is known to produce some stimulating euphoria right after it kicks in. Later on it makes you want to lie down. At 60 baht per bottle I don't think they would bother to add any "other stuff".

 

Thank for your advice Jack & Lacessit.... 

 

I did read somewhere that many of the Krathom sellers are getting 'caught out' not for selling Krathom which is legal, but for the 'other stuff' they are adding to it, the 'mixture' gets tested and if it contains some thing extra...   but, I too wonder if thats actually a reality as why would they add anything extra and charge so little.

 

I'll get the Wife to pop down the road and get a bottle and give it a try... 

[Skipalongcassidy]

15 hours ago, alanrchase said:

Fox got stung for $750 million because they wouldn't retract what they broadcast. Seems at least the liberal media has enough sense and integrity to post retractions when their reporting is incorrect. 

So in your mind it is ok to publish misinformation as long as you are willing to retract what you say when you get caught lying?  That makes you more moral and ethical... confess your sins and all is forgiven?

 

I never said that there are not right wing media that publish misinformation as well... they just do it less frequently then the liberal left media.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

 

 

I never said that there are not right wing media that publish misinformation as well... they just do it less frequently then the liberal left media.

You are basing that on the observation they make fewer retractions? Logic is not your strong point.

[KannikaP]

I have had pain in my shoulders for several years. Tried all forms of massage, injections, acupuncture, ointments etc etc, to no avail.

Bought some kratom leaves from Lazada, chopped 12 leaves in my food processor with 600 ml water in my French coffee press. Into microwave for 4 minutes until just boiling, let it cool. 

Two swigs before bed last night, no noticeable euphoria, and more importantly NO PAIN. Will do same again tonight.

[ibjoe]

Kratom can be safe and effective, used correctly. A primary danger is contamination, supplements are not regulated, a manufacture could label any product as Kratom, and the product could have contamination. Same for any unregulated supplement. Kratom is sometimes used concurrently with other more dangerous drugs, and bad side effects of those drugs can be mislabeled as due to Kratom alone. Used abusively, i.e. excessive dosing, can cause physical problems, there is correlation of excessive dosing with liver damage. Kratom is not shown to be physically addicting, like opioids, however most anything can be psychologically addicting.

 

Kratom is a mostly legal supplement that pharmaceutical industry is pushing to be incorrectly listed as Schedule I. It is relatively benign, used mostly for pain relief, to help recovering opiate addicts stay clean, and recreationally. The last attempt by USA DEA to list Kratom as schedule I was met by overwhelming public opposition, but Kratom remains in danger. Kratom is threatened by pharmaceutical industry. Because it is an inexpensive natural product that produces good results, allowing people to mitigate pain, etc. without buying expensive and addicting substances from pharmaceutical industry.

 

At one time I was diagnosed with clinical depression and prescribed a variety of anti-depressants, some of which were effective. I'm over that now, don't take any medications for depression, but I find that when I get occasion depression symptoms then Kratom is much more effective than any of the anti-depressants were. Effect is almost immediate, compared to hours or days for the medications, and last for a few hours, though can be prolonged by additional dosage.