Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[Nick Carter icp]

20 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 as usual no parity

 

   40 hostages in exchange for 40 prisoners would be parity .

 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Some more on this

 

Hamas, Al Jazeera admit: Story of IDF rapes in Gaza hospital fabricated

Although the Qatari mouthpiece has yet to officially refer to the retraction, all content related to the allegation has been deleted. After more than 24 hours of letting the story run freely, Qatari mouthpiece Al Jazeera deleted the page featuring their former story, which accused Israeli soldiers of allegedly perpetrating rape against women during the IDF’s latest excursion against Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorists who barricaded themselves inside the former hospital-cum-terror headquarters at Shifa Hospital.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793560

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793420

 

IDF Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amir Avivi met with the holder of the Israeli-Palestinian portfolio at the US State Department, who accused Israel of "systematically" sexually abusing Palestinian woman, the general explained in an interview on 103FM.

Recounting his meeting, he explained, "It was a meeting that shook me. We sat there, talked about the situation, and suddenly she accused Israel of systematically sexually abusing Palestinian women."

[Bkk Brian]

21 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-793420

 

IDF Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amir Avivi met with the holder of the Israeli-Palestinian portfolio at the US State Department, who accused Israel of "systematically" sexually abusing Palestinian woman, the general explained in an interview on 103FM.

Recounting his meeting, he explained, "It was a meeting that shook me. We sat there, talked about the situation, and suddenly she accused Israel of systematically sexually abusing Palestinian women."

That is zero to do with the linked post you responded to and is an unverified claim, no named US official only a female official, holder of the Israeli-Palestinian portfolio at the State Department and as IDF Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amir Avivi who is the one who reported on this said: "This is absolutely disconnected from reality."

 

 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That is zero to do with the linked post you responded to and is an unverified claim, no named US official only a female official, holder of the Israeli-Palestinian portfolio at the State Department and as IDF Brig.-Gen. (res.) Amir Avivi who is the one who reported on this said: "This is absolutely disconnected from reality."

 

 

 

 

Well if you don't doubt the veracity of The Brig Gen - then a State Department Official said that to him in the State Department therefore on official business and reported in an authoritative source the Jerusalem Post - there's a case to answer at the very least unless you want to smear female US officials as somehow in the pay of Hamas. But then as the whole of the UN is smeared now whither the truth ? The BG can surely not know more than anyone else, especially so since he is retired and the State Department official is not. No wonder that for Joe Biden the premise that everyone but Israel is lying is wearing pretty thin all round. Even their British foul mouthpiece Elon Levy was suspended for his daily fact free diatribes.

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well if you don't doubt the veracity of The Brig Gen - then a State Department Official said that to him in the State Department therefore on official business and reported in an authoritative source the Jerusalem Post - there's a case to answer at the very least unless you want to smear female US officials as somehow in the pay of Hamas. But then as the whole of the UN is smeared now whither the truth ? The BG can surely not know more than anyone else, especially so since he is retired and the State Department official is not. No wonder that for Joe Biden the premise that everyone but Israel is lying is wearing pretty thin all round. Even their British foul mouthpiece Elon Levy was suspended for his daily fact free diatribes.

Well if you don't doubt the veracity of The Brig Gen

 

He also said "This is absolutely disconnected from reality."

 

Do you know who this official was, her name? Do you know who told her this? Were they credible? Was it a Hamas reporter straight from the tunnels? Unverified propaganda is all it is without named people and credible witnesses.

[beautifulthailand99]

20 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well if you don't doubt the veracity of The Brig Gen

 

He also said "This is absolutely disconnected from reality."

 

Do you know who this official was, her name? Do you know who told her this? Were they credible? Was it a Hamas reporter straight from the tunnels? Unverified propaganda is all it is without named people and credible witnesses.

Well he does and since this was an official meeting I suggest that he should have done further due diligence before breaking probably was what a meeting had in confidence. His scant details lead me to think he is trying to smear the US State Department here in the Israeli press in order to try and stymie counter narratives of IDF committing sexual crimes take root. What war teaches us is that brutalised men do brutal things in the execution of it. Just look at Vietnam for instance and all should be unequivocally condemned. 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, beautifulthailand99 said:

Well he does and since this was an official meeting I suggest that he should have done further due diligence before breaking probably was what a meeting had in confidence. His scant details lead me to think he is trying to smear the US State Department here in the Israeli press in order to try and stymie counter narratives of IDF committing sexual crimes take root. What war teaches us is that brutalised men do brutal things in the execution of it. Just look at Vietnam for instance and all should be unequivocally condemned. 

You suggesting what he should have done shows your desperation. What this leads you to think I care not. I do care about credible reports. This is not one of those by a long way.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

BTW there is an excellent new 1 hour long documentary out on Al-Jazeera called October 7th that critically analyses the timeline of the day in detail and with numerous experts both Israeli and international to determine what we can and cannot know about that fateful day and isn't afraid to condemn both Hamas and the IDF.

Edited March 25 by beautifulthailand99

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

BTW there is an excellent new 1 hour long documentary out on Al-Jazeera called October 7th that critically analyses the timeline of the day in detail and with numerous experts both Israeli and international to determine what we can and cannot know about that fateful day and isn't afraid to condemn both Hams and the IDF.

 

   Palestinian Woman and Children  went for a sight seeing day trip to Jerusalem  and got attacked by the IDF

[ozimoron]

The United Nations Security Council on Monday issued its first demand to halt the fighting in Gaza, calling for a cease-fire during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan after the U.S. abstained and drawing an immediate protest from the Israeli prime minister.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu canceled a planned visit to Washington by a high-level delegation and accused the U.S. of “retreating” from a “principled position” by allowing the vote to pass without conditioning the cease-fire on the release of hostages held by Hamas.

 

The resolution passed 14-0 after the U.S. decided not to use its veto power on the resolution, which also demanded the release of all hostages taken captive during Hamas’ Oct. 7 surprise attack in southern Israel.

 

https://apnews.com/article/un-gaza-ceasefire-resolution-vote-ramadan-b7985fede65e5477aba2c8d2e62a6632

[ozimoron]

Hands up who thinks Israel will abide by the resolution. Judging by Netanyahu's reaction, I doubt it very much. He cancelled a trip to Washington

[ozimoron]

Smells like blackmail.

 

The decision of the U.S. to abstain, rather than veto the resolution, is also Washington’s sharpest action to date at the United Nations against its ally. It also came ahead of an expected trip from top advisers to Netanyahu and Israeli government officials to Washington, as Israel and the U.S. find themselves at odds over a looming invasion of the southern Gazan city of Rafah.

 

Israeli media reported ahead of the vote that Netanyahu threatened to cancel his officials’ trip to Washington to discuss, among other things, humanitarian aid, the release of hostages and plans for protecting civilians in a planned operation in Rafah if the U.S. failed to veto the resolution.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/25/us-un-resolution-cease-fire-row-with-israel-00148813

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Hands up who thinks Israel will abide by the resolution. Judging by Netanyahu's reaction, I doubt it very much. He cancelled a trip to Washington

He's got to keep his alliance of nutjobs together. They won't work, and they won't join the army but can probably tell you how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

https://archive.is/Zvp5t

 

    Even before the war with Hamas erupted last year, the almost complete absence from the military of the fast-growing Haredi community — who make up an eighth of Israel’s population and are expected to account for a quarter by 2050 — had long been a point of contention among the rest of Jewish Israeli society, where at least 24 months of obligatory military service is a rite of passage.

But with Israel fighting its longest war since its foundation in 1948, Yosef’s comments sparked criticism from allies and opponents alike, and laid bare the simmering tensions over the issue in Netanyahu’s coalition, which contains both ultraorthodox parties such as Shas and hawkish ex-soldiers determined to abolish the exemption.

 

 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

He's got to keep his alliance of nutjobs together. They won't work, and they won't join the army but can probably tell you how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

 

   Same as Thailand with their Monks .

Of course you don't hate Thai Monk though

Aren't Thailand also occupying Muslim lands in the South ?

[beautifulthailand99]

19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Same as Thailand with their Monks .

Of course you don't hate Thai Monk though

Aren't Thailand also occupying Muslim lands in the South ?

Slightly different, the monks are fed by their local populaces and don't as such get public money or have any direct representation in the Parliament and don't fight (a few corrupt bad apples excepted). And yes Thailand is occupying the 4 southern provinces 'gifted' by the British for a railway from Singapore to Burma and the unrest has elements of that in it to this day, but it's relatively quiet at the moment , I visit there regularly as my wife is from Yala so know it well. I don't hate the Haredi far from it  and why would I - they are Torah scholars who refuse to fight and have the good fortune that the Israeli state keeps them in clover to study their ancient texts. Harmless enough but can an Israel fighting for its life support this burden particularly with their large families that keep ever growing ?

Edited March 25 by beautifulthailand99

[ozimoron]

 

[rattlesnake]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Same as Thailand with their Monks .

Of course you don't hate Thai Monk though

Aren't Thailand also occupying Muslim lands in the South ?

 

Muslim children are not being starved to death by Thais.

 

Please spare me the "human shield" thing.

 

Famine in northern Gaza is imminent as more than 1 million people face ‘catastrophic’ levels of hunger, new report warns

The European Union’s top diplomat Josep Borrell accused Israel of using “starvation as a weapon of war,” saying the famine was “not a natural disaster” but caused by Israel “preventing humanitarian support entering into Gaza.” Hundreds of trucks were waiting at the border and being prevented entry into Gaza by Israel, he said.

[...]

Aid delivery by sea and air was only necessary because the “natural” way of delivering aid by land was “artificially closed” by Israel, he added.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/19/middleeast/famine-northern-gaza-starvation-ipc-report-intl-hnk/index.html


 

 

Edited March 25 by rattlesnake

[Nick Carter icp]

19 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Muslim children are not being starved to death by Thais.

 

Please spare me the "human shield" thing.

 

Famine in northern Gaza is imminent as more than 1 million people face ‘catastrophic’ levels of hunger, new report warns

The European Union’s top diplomat Josep Borrell accused Israel of using “starvation as a weapon of war,” saying the famine was “not a natural disaster” but caused by Israel “preventing humanitarian support entering into Gaza.” Hundreds of trucks were waiting at the border and being prevented entry into Gaza by Israel, he said.

[...]

Aid delivery by sea and air was only necessary because the “natural” way of delivering aid by land was “artificially closed” by Israel, he added.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/19/middleeast/famine-northern-gaza-starvation-ipc-report-intl-hnk/index.html


 

 

 

   Famine has been "imminent" for five months now .

Famine isn't happening in Gaza , its just more false propaganda .

Odd how so many Palestinians seem to be overweight and Israeli's seem to be slim 

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Famine has been "imminent" for five months now .

Famine isn't happening in Gaza , its just more false propaganda .

Odd how so many Palestinians seem to be overweight and Israeli's seem to be slim 

 

Speechless.

[Bkk Brian]

UN Security Council passes resolutions on immediate ceasefire for the remainder of Ramadan and the immediate release of all hostages.

 

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said the resolution "must be implemented" to secure a ceasefire and the "immediate and unconditional release of all hostages".

 

UNSC passes resolutions ‘an immediate ceasefire’ 'unconditional release of hostages'

In the Security Council vote on Monday, the US abstained, while the remaining 14 members voted in favour. The US had previously blocked resolutions calling for a ceasefire, saying such a move would be wrong while delicate negotiations for a truce and hostage releases were continuing between Israel and Hamas.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1323270-unsc-passes-resolutions-‘an-immediate-ceasefire’-unconditional-release-of-hostages

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, WDSmart said:

IMO, and in the growing conclusion of most of the world, the IDF's barbarous military actions in Gaza do have a large quality of "revenge" about them. I don't consider them just "retaliatory."

IMO blowing up a building with many women and children in it has no reason other than revenge ( unless we consider a much darker objective ).

Starving over 2 million people, destroying their hospitals and schools and shooting them while attempting to get food is as vile as it gets, and IMO the IDF and by association israelis will be tarnished by this atrocity for a very long time to come. Even if western governments try to excuse it after it's all over, Arabs will not forget what the Crusaders invaders are doing.

[Wobblybob]

8 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Hands up who thinks Israel will abide by the resolution. Judging by Netanyahu's reaction, I doubt it very much. He cancelled a trip to Washington

Hands up if you think that Hamas will unconditionally release all the hostages like the council has demanded. But just between you and myself..... I don't think so. 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO blowing up a building with many women and children in it has no reason other than revenge ( unless we consider a much darker objective ).

Starving over 2 million people, destroying their hospitals and schools and shooting them while attempting to get food is as vile as it gets, and IMO the IDF and by association israelis will be tarnished by this atrocity for a very long time to come. Even if western governments try to excuse it after it's all over, Arabs will not forget what the Crusaders invaders are doing.

 

   You really need to stop watching Al-Jazeera , they do not tell the truth .

You are believing lies and untruths .

Your opinion of far removed from the reality 

[Wobblybob]

Al Jaz and Hamas lies backfires on them.

 

The Hamas terror group and Qatari news outlet Al Jazeera have admitted that a report about IDF soldiers raping Palestinian women in the Gaza Strip was a lie, after the claim sparked mass panic in the coastal enclave.

On Sunday, Al Jazeera published a story in Arabic which falsely stated that Israeli soldiers had sexually assaulted women at Al-Shifa Hospital.

 

 

L

 

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Speechless.

 

   How many Palestinians do you think will die of starvation ?

I will predict that NO Palestinians will die of starvation

What is your prediction ?

 

[Wobblybob]

6 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Speechless.

Maybe you will become less mute when you read what this elderley woman had to say about the real reason of food shortages in Gaza.

 

An elderly Palestinian woman has accused Hamas of hoarding international aid during a live TV interview, in a rare case of Gazans criticising the group in the media.

The unnamed woman was speaking to Al Jazeera when she took Hamas to task, apparently unconcerned about the consequences of doing so.

“All the aid goes underground,” she said in Arabic, an apparent reference to Hamas’ vast network of underground tunnels, which it uses to hide supplies for the war on Israel. “It does not reach all the people.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/08/elderly-gazan-accuses-hamas-stealing-aid-rare-criticism/

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Wobblybob said:

Hands up if you think that Hamas will unconditionally release all the hostages like the council has demanded. But just between you and myself..... I don't think so. 

 

Without release of the prisoners, no, I don't believe they will. That said, the demand for the ceasefire is not contingent on the release of the hostages.

 

btw: what happened to your promise to prove that I condoned the Hamas terrorist attack? Did you provide that or back down?

Edited March 26 by ozimoron

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

Without release of the prisoners, no, I don't believe they will. That said, the demand for the ceasefire is not contingent on the release of the hostages.

 

btw: what happened to your promise to prove that I condoned the Hamas terrorist attack? Did you provide that or back down?

That said, the demand for the ceasefire is not contingent on the release of the hostages.

 

The demand to release the hostages is also not contingent on a ceasefire, you forgot that bit

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

UN Security Council passes resolutions on immediate ceasefire for the remainder of Ramadan and the immediate release of all hostages.

 

UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said the resolution "must be implemented" to secure a ceasefire and the "immediate and unconditional release of all hostages".

 

UNSC passes resolutions ‘an immediate ceasefire’ 'unconditional release of hostages'

In the Security Council vote on Monday, the US abstained, while the remaining 14 members voted in favour. The US had previously blocked resolutions calling for a ceasefire, saying such a move would be wrong while delicate negotiations for a truce and hostage releases were continuing between Israel and Hamas.

https://aseannow.com/topic/1323270-unsc-passes-resolutions-‘an-immediate-ceasefire’-unconditional-release-of-hostages

 

 

The release of the hostages was not linked to the ceasefire. They are separate demands. Your post implies otherwise

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

That said, the demand for the ceasefire is not contingent on the release of the hostages.

 

The demand to release the hostages is also not contingent on a ceasefire, you forgot that bit

 

I did not make the claim that it was.

Edited March 26 by ozimoron