Wobblybob Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 43 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Of course they do, Genocide is hard to hide if there is a ceasefire. Always remember you only discuss this topic with posters that share your flawed biases, that in itself is counterproductive and you will never be disagreed with but what a boring way to debate, can't you accept other posters opinions that differ from your own? 😕 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowtail Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said: 30 April: Netanyahu vows to raid Rafah ‘with or without’ hostage deal Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed that Israel will proceed with an offensive on the southern Gaza city of Rafah even if renewed efforts at internationally brokered talks with Hamas result in the release of hostages and a ceasefire. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/30/netanyahu-vows-to-raid-rafah-with-or-without-hostage-deal#:~:text=Benjamin Netanyahu has vowed that,of hostages and a ceasefire. Where did he say that? Not in the article you linked to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 22 minutes ago, rattlesnake said: I know what you think and want. Increasingly less people agree with you. What people previously agreed with me and now no longer agree with me ? Could you tell me who those people are ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 9 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: What people previously agreed with me and now no longer agree with me ? Could you tell me who those people are ? The world is no longer turning a blind eye to the plight of the Palestinians, and the justifications put forward to justify their annihilation – annihilation which was decided from the beginning (cf. Ben-Gurion's 1937 letter to his son, "We must expel Arabs and take their places..."). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 minutes ago, rattlesnake said: The world is no longer turning a blind eye to the plight of the Palestinians, and the justifications put forward to justify their annihilation – annihilation which was decided from the beginning (cf. Ben-Gurion's 1937 letter to his son, "We must expel Arabs and take their places..."). Yes, as asked previously, what people are you referring to ? What people previously agreed with me and now no longer agree with me ? Could you tell me who those people are ? Just saying the same thing again doesn't explain which people you mean . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, bannork said: In the recent past Israel has been seen as the nation that rose from the unspeakable horrors of the holocaust, but now its image is that of a brutal nation, no better than Putin and his murderous campaigns. Jackson Hinkle is still claiming that "Israel BOMBED the last Christian hospital in Gaza today, killing over 500 civilians." , even though it was a Hamas misfiring rocket and he labels Isreal as being a terrorist state , because of that bombing . Hes hardly a reliable source 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, rattlesnake said: Several posters here have repeatedly claimed that what is happening in Gaza is Hamas' fault, while the truth is, in Bibi's own words, what is happening in Gaza is a plan and its stakeholders will carry it out no matter what, even if Hamas gives in to Israel's demands. The Gaza war was caused by the Hamas terror attack on Oct 7 th . It was just after the terror attack that Israel/Bibi vowed to wipe Hamas out . You are trying to rewrite history and make the claim that Israel wants to wipe out Hamas and the Oct 7 th attack is irrelevant . Hamas will not evade justice just by freeing their hostages , they need to be punished for committing the crime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 19 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Which people have changed their mind though ? Who are these people that you talk of ? Who are the people that previously agreed with me, but no longer do ? Pretty much the whole world, Nick, except for a few corrupt politicians and journalists. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, rattlesnake said: Pretty much the whole world, Nick, except for a few corrupt politicians and journalists. Palestinian supporters quite often speak on behalf of the whole World . Sitting at home online and telling the World what they think . *The whole World agrees with me , its just you with a differing opinion to me and the rest of the World " 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Nick Carter icp said: Palestinian supporters quite often speak on behalf of the whole World . Sitting at home online and telling the World what they think . *The whole World agrees with me , its just you with a differing opinion to me and the rest of the World " 🙂 I am giving you my opinion, as someone who has been following this issue for many years. I think you understand where I am coming from. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said: I am giving you my opinion, as someone who has been following this issue for many years. I think you understand where I am coming from. Then you will be aware that there has always been opposition to Israel, always been marches and campaigns to boycott Israel and disinvest . Always been terror attacks, anti Semites and Jews haters .always have been and always will be . Saudi Arabia and U.A.E now side with Israel, that is more important than a few protests in USA universities 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattlesnake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said: Then you will be aware that there has always been opposition to Israel, always been marches and campaigns to boycott Israel and disinvest . Always been terror attacks, anti Semites and Jews haters .always have been and always will be . Saudi Arabia and U.A.E now side with Israel, that is more important than a few protests in USA universities It's a lot more than a few USA protests, there are European protests too, UN spokespeople talking of genocide, the ICJ hearings, the reports of humanitarian aids and journalists killed… All this is unprecedented and disastrous for Israel's image. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Carter icp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, rattlesnake said: It's a lot more than a few USA protests, there are European protests too, UN spokespeople talking of genocide, the ICJ hearings, the reports of humanitarian aids and journalists killed… All this is unprecedented and disastrous for Israel's image. This isn't the first war where journalists have been killed , so its not unprecedented . Its just a small loud minority shouting about genocide and starvation . There have always been protestors protesting about something . Impartial people realise that Israel are fighting back against terrorists , thy don't all believe that "all innocent woman and children" nonsense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Media Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 The topic here is for daily updates on the Israel/Hamas war which started on Oct 7th not historical perspectives. There are other dedicated topics for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Social Media Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Topic Update: Sustainable calm’ proposal splits Israel and Hamas UN chief Antonio Guterres says it is a "decisive moment for the Palestinian and Israeli people and for the fate of the entire region". There seems to be common ground between most sides about the principles: a ceasefire should take place alongside the release of Israeli hostages and Palestinian prisoners. Various draft agreements have been drawn up, setting out a complex process of how it would all work. The last deal that was described by United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken urged Hamas to swiftly accept Israel's latest and “extraordinarily generous offer” was, then turned down by Hamas. Hamas then accepted a deal put forward by Egypt and Qatar, however this deal had no input from other stakeholders. Israel will however continue negotiations. There is some disagreement over the detail of what should happen to whom and when and in what order. Israeli officials say, for example, that its female soldiers should be released earlier than envisaged. They also say the texts should be clearer that the first 33 hostages to be released must be alive and are worried about not having a veto over which Palestinian prisoners would be released. But there is a more fundamental sticking point about a core principle that may be harder to get past and that is when the war should end. The opening words of the draft agreement - supported by Hamas - declares that there should be a "temporary cessation of military operations between the two parties". This is largely unproblematic. Six weeks would pass while people are released, Israeli forces withdraw from some areas, displaced Gazans would be able to return to what if anything is left of their homes. But then stage two would begin. The draft agreement then talks about a "return to sustainable calm", which it defines as "a permanent cessation of military and hostile operations". More hostages would then be released. It is this that seems to be unacceptable to Israel's government. In a statement, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: "Israel will not allow Hamas to restore its evil rule in the Gaza Strip, Israel will not allow it to restore its military capabilities to continue striving for our destruction. Israel cannot accept a proposal that endangers the security of our citizens and the future of our country." In other words, Israel's government wants the right to continue taking the fight to Hamas in the long run. By contrast, Hamas wants a permanent ceasefire. What is not clear is whether there is a way for Qatari, Egyptian and American negotiators to find a middle path through this. 2024-05-08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said: Then you will be aware that there has always been opposition to Israel, always been marches and campaigns to boycott Israel and disinvest . Always been terror attacks, anti Semites and Jews haters .always have been and always will be . Saudi Arabia and U.A.E now side with Israel, that is more important than a few protests in USA universities The Foreign Ministry expresses Saudi Arabia’s warning of the dangers of the Israeli occupation forces targeting the city of Rafah as part of its systematic bloody campaign to storm all areas of the Gaza Strip and displace its residents towards the unknown. It doesn't appear that Saudi Arabia agrees with Israel on this issue 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanaguma Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 2 hours ago, vinny41 said: The Foreign Ministry expresses Saudi Arabia’s warning of the dangers of the Israeli occupation forces targeting the city of Rafah as part of its systematic bloody campaign to storm all areas of the Gaza Strip and displace its residents towards the unknown. It doesn't appear that Saudi Arabia agrees with Israel on this issue Don't be so sure. Secretly, the Saudis probably LOVE seeing Hamas get its butt kicked. It makes Iran look bad. But they have to make the correct noises in public, so they put out statements like this. Sound and fury, meaning nothing. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 4 hours ago, Social Media said: What is not clear is whether there is a way for Qatari, Egyptian and American negotiators to find a middle path through this. What on Earth has this got to do with the USA? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Nice to see the Red Indians condemning the Genocide. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobblybob Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 3 minutes ago, Neeranam said: What on Earth has this got to do with the USA? The terrorists are holding six American hostages, but hey, they're American so it doesn't matter! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neeranam Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Blinken says the ceasefire deal is extraordinarily generous & says it’s up to Hamas to accept - Hamas accepts - Israel rejects. Orders Palestinians to leave eastern Rafah & then proceeds to bomb western Rafah - Bombing Rafah was the US “redline” - US blames Hamas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said: Don't be so sure. Secretly, the Saudis probably LOVE seeing Hamas get its butt kicked. It makes Iran look bad. But they have to make the correct noises in public, so they put out statements like this. Sound and fury, meaning nothing. As far as I know its the 1st time that the Saudi's have called Israel out for committing a genocide The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has officially labeled the actions of Israel in the Gaza Strip a genocide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 4 minutes ago, Neeranam said: Blinken says the ceasefire deal is extraordinarily generous & says it’s up to Hamas to accept - Hamas accepts - Israel rejects. Orders Palestinians to leave eastern Rafah & then proceeds to bomb western Rafah - Bombing Rafah was the US “redline” - US blames Hamas Blinken says the ceasefire deal is extraordinarily generous & says it’s up to Hamas to accept - Hamas accepts - Wrong, try reading: "The last deal that was described by United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken urged Hamas to swiftly accept Israel's latest and “extraordinarily generous offer” was, then turned down by Hamas. Hamas then accepted a deal put forward by Egypt and Qatar" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanaguma Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Blinken says the ceasefire deal is extraordinarily generous & says it’s up to Hamas to accept - Hamas accepts - Wrong, try reading: "The last deal that was described by United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken urged Hamas to swiftly accept Israel's latest and “extraordinarily generous offer” was, then turned down by Hamas. Hamas then accepted a deal put forward by Egypt and Qatar" Yeah, the 'generous' deal that would see 33 Israeli hostages, either DEAD OR ALIVE, returned. And Hamas gets 30 live prisoners freed for EACH hostage/body returned. Generous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Another propaganda video published by Hamas and more sickening vile lies. Hamas claims Israeli hostage killed in IDF strike in new propaganda video Hamas spokesperson Abu Obaida claimed on Telegram that Israeli-US-Canadian citizen Judy Weinstein, 70, and another unnamed hostage held in Gaza succumbed to their wounds as a result of Israeli bombardment. https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-800313 The truth however is that Judith was confirmed murdered on 7/10 and her body taken to Gaza. That was known back in December. Here's the article on it. Israeli-American Judith Weinstein confirmed murdered on Oct. 7, body held in Gaza https://www.timesofisrael.com/american-israeli-judith-weinstein-confirmed-murdered-on-oct-7-body-held-in-gaza/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 More Hamas command centers found in UN facilities. IDF strikes Hamas command center inside UNRWA HQ in central Gaza The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and the Shin Bet security agency announced on Sunday that it had conducted a strike on the command and control center belonging to the Hamas terrorist organization located within the UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees) compound in the central region of the Gaza Strip. The targeted headquarters facilitated the transfer of weapons and supplies to Hamas operatives, including through underground tunnels. The IDF spokesperson emphasized that Hamas consistently exploits international institutions and civilian populations as human shields for its terrorist activities against Israel. https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/artc-idf-raids-hamas-command-center-inside-unrwa-hq-in-central-gaza 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 33 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: Blinken says the ceasefire deal is extraordinarily generous & says it’s up to Hamas to accept - Hamas accepts - Wrong, try reading: "The last deal that was described by United States Secretary of State Antony Blinken urged Hamas to swiftly accept Israel's latest and “extraordinarily generous offer” was, then turned down by Hamas. Hamas then accepted a deal put forward by Egypt and Qatar" Israeli officials claim the Biden administration knew about the latest hostage and ceasefire deal proposal Egypt and Qatar negotiated with Hamas, but didn't brief Israel before Hamas announced it accepted it on Monday. A senior U.S. official pushed back saying "American diplomats have been engaged with Israeli counterparts. There have been no surprises." https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/white-house-israel-hamas-positions-allow-hostage-deal Someone is telling porkies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanaguma Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 (edited) In case you have forgotten why this war is being fought: here is a reminder. This teenage girl was gang raped by Hamas, then kidnapped. Note the bloodstains on the back of her trousers, which indicate the violence of her assault. Edited May 8 by Hanaguma 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkk Brian Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 1 minute ago, vinny41 said: Israeli officials claim the Biden administration knew about the latest hostage and ceasefire deal proposal Egypt and Qatar negotiated with Hamas, but didn't brief Israel before Hamas announced it accepted it on Monday. A senior U.S. official pushed back saying "American diplomats have been engaged with Israeli counterparts. There have been no surprises." https://www.axios.com/2024/05/07/white-house-israel-hamas-positions-allow-hostage-deal Someone is telling porkies And? So where are we now, currently no deal, the deal Hamas accepted is delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinny41 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said: And? So where are we now, currently no deal, the deal Hamas accepted is delusional. Anyone that thinks the deal was put together with only Egypt, Hamas and Qatar involved , ignoring the fact that the CIA director was in Doha at the time and was completely unaware of any discussions and all the CIA listening stations were turned off is delusional 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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