Israel is at War - General discussion (pt3)

[rattlesnake]

Netanyahu now vows to evacuate the civilian population before going into Rafah. So far, to my knowledge, there are no details on how and where this evacuation will take place.
 

Israel, US set for virtual discussion on IDF's invasion of Rafah today

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794644

[Bkk Brian]

16 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Netanyahu now vows to evacuate the civilian population before going into Rafah. So far, to my knowledge, there are no details on how and where this evacuation will take place.
 

Israel, US set for virtual discussion on IDF's invasion of Rafah today

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794644

Your link is about the meeting to discuss the Biden administration's alternative proposals for a full  IDF ground invasion of Rafah.

 

Netanyah's been in planning for a few weeks. I'm sure both his plans and those from Washington will this week be thrashed out along with hoping that Hamas finally agrees to a deal. All this multi tasking and none of us have a crystal ball eh.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave an Israeli delegation approval on Friday to resume indirect negotiations with Hamas in the coming days for a truce and hostage deal.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-gives-shin-bet-mossad-chiefs-go-ahead-to-continue-hostage-talks/

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's interesting that you post something entirely factual and 2 ?people give it a laugh emoji.

Its hilarious that you ignore my post that outs your false information about the hostages and instead resort to talking about other posters. 

[murphybridget]

On 3/29/2024 at 6:30 PM, WDSmart said:

 

"Let it Be" would not be a good approach, IMO. But, I do know a song that does deliver the most accurate message of how I feel about this entire Isreal/Palestine debacle: "I'd Love to Save the World" by Ten Years After. The chorus goes like this:

 

"I'd love to save the world, 
But I don't know what to you,

So I'll leave it up to you."

https://youtu.be/CTUsFm0BAu8
 

 

That sounds proper.

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your link is about the meeting to discuss the Biden administration's alternative proposals for a full  IDF ground invasion of Rafah.

 

Netanyah's been in planning for a few weeks. I'm sure both his plans and those from Washington will this week be thrashed out along with hoping that Hamas finally agrees to a deal. All this multi tasking and none of us have a crystal ball eh.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave an Israeli delegation approval on Friday to resume indirect negotiations with Hamas in the coming days for a truce and hostage deal.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-gives-shin-bet-mossad-chiefs-go-ahead-to-continue-hostage-talks/

 

Reading the Times of Israel article you posted, it is indeed reasonable to expect that the hostage talks will fail again. And yes, we don't have a crystal ball, but it sure looks like Bibi is still determined to go into Rafah no matter what. Let's hope the civilians will be spared and evacuated as he promised. But in any case, where will they go? They would only accept another part of Gaza, and so would neighbouring countries.

 

Edited April 1 by rattlesnake
Typo.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Reading the Times of Israel article you posted, it is indeed reasonable to expect that the hostage talks will fail again. And yes, we don't have a crystal ball, but it sure looks like Bibi is still determined to go into Rafah no matter what. Let's hope the civilians will be spared and evacuated as he promised. But in any case, where will they go? They would only accept another part of Gaza, and so would neighbouring countries.

 

 And yes, we don't have a crystal ball

 

I don't do speculation on meetings that have not finished, I keep fingers crossed for host release deals and when Israel does go into Rafah which has the majority vote of all Israeli's even if they do want Netanyahu removed, I hope they demolish every last piece of terrorist infastructure and every last leader and terrorist eliminated, prison or death, their choice.

 

The other choice is for Hamas to release the hostages & surrender, no Rafah operation needed, no more using Gazan civilians as human shields by Hamas, no more need to falsify the death counts. Surge food in, get the health care back on track. 

[Nick Carter icp]

14 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Reading the Times of Israel article you posted, it is indeed reasonable to expect that the hostage talks will fail again. And yes, we don't have a crystal ball, but it sure looks like Bibi is still determined to go into Rafah no matter what. Let's hope the civilians will be spared and evacuated as he promised. But in any case, where will they go? They would only accept another part of Gaza, and so would neighbouring countries.

 

 

   There are still 3000 Hamas members in Rafah .

They need to be killed before this war finishes .

Yes, lets hope there are minimal civilian  casualties .Hamas should all move to one area of the city and civilians to an other area , that would help minimise civilian casualties

[Bkk Brian]

Israeli official: Some progress in hostage deal talks, negotiations expected to intensify

There has been some progress in hostage talks in Cairo, an Israeli official tells The Times of Israel, and negotiations are expected to intensify noticeably in the coming days. The talks are being held in Cairo amid growing Israeli frustration with Qatar’s effectiveness as a mediator and its willingness to put pressure on Hamas. The continuation of talks will likely influence decisions made around an IDF operation in Rafah, the official says. “The two topics are linked,” says the official, adding that “the hostages are the first priority.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-official-some-progress-in-hostage-deal-talks-negotiations-expected-to-intensify/

 

[still kicking]

Keep blaming Hamas.

Gaza’s Al-Shifa hospital devastated in two-week battle | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

[coolcarer]

7 hours ago, still kicking said:

Keep blaming Hamas.

Gaza’s Al-Shifa hospital devastated in two-week battle | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

Yep. A direct result of Hamas strategy to take control of protected locations in anticipation the IDF would not operate there. They chose to make the battleground there. Their usual tactic. Please call them out for what they are. Terrorists with no regard for life be that Israelis or Gazans

[Bkk Brian]

On 4/1/2024 at 5:47 AM, Bkk Brian said:

The numbers spewed out by Hamas on the deaths and casualty figures are becoming a complete joke, that again the UN and other bodies need to address. Its no longer a case of pervious figures being deemed reliable when the reality now is that they are anything but credible. 45% of deaths now come from sources they will not reveal. The latest of numerous reports on this now.

 

Gaza Fatality Data Has Become Completely Unreliable

Given the discrepancies in official Palestinian counts and their growing reliance on questionable data from media reports, the credibility gaps revealed by a previous Washington Institute study have become yawning chasms. 

Heated debates over the Palestinian death toll in the Hamas-Israel war tend to focus on the fact that widely cited fatality numbers make no distinction between combatants and noncombatants. While this is true, it misses a more fundamental problem—the numbers themselves have lost any claim to validity.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/gaza-fatality-data-has-become-completely-unreliable

 

The numbers of dead in Gaza don’t add up – and there is no easy explanation

While in previous rounds of fighting, the numbers were based on official hospital records, this time an increasingly large percentage of reported deaths are coming, not from doctors, but from what the Health Ministry refers to as “reliable media sources”, as well as reports submitted by Gazan citizens via a Google Form.

At the time of writing, the authorities say there have been a total of 32,414 deaths. About 54 per cent of those are from hospital records, with 45 per cent coming from other sources.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/terror-and-security/unrwa-staff-death-toll-gaza-israel-hamas-war-data/

https://archive.ph/nssyH

 

These fantasy numbers dished just got even worse with evidence of deliberate hiding of the deaths from Gazans by failed rocket launches by Hamas. The names of those who died and continue to do so are added to the overall counts and blamed on IDF bombs. Around 11% of rockers fired by Hamas since Oct 7th towards Israel have failed and landed back in Gaza.

 

Hamas document reveals it hides casualties, blames failed rocket launches on Israel - IDF

“These documents clearly show that terrorist organizations in Gaza are cooperating to hide the extent of the destruction and killing caused by failed launches that fall on the residents, while making an effort to protect Hamas terrorists, overlooking the danger to civilians,” said Adraee in his statement.

Lastly, Hamas reports were exposed featuring names of Gazan casualties as a result of failed launches, which were then recycled by Hamas in their outward reports of casualties, alleging they stemmed from Israeli airstrikes. In other words, Hamas counted casualties from PIJ failed rockets as casualties from Israeli attacks, proving yet again the lack of accuracy of their propaganda reporting.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-794610

[Jeff the Chef]

Japan lifts pause in funding for UNRWA, The European Commission, Canada, Australia, Sweden and Finland have also lifted similar funding pauses in recent weeks.

Japan was one of 16 countries that suspended funding to UNRWA amid Israeli allegations that 12 of the agency’s staff participated in Hamas’s attacks on southern Israel.

Israeli authorities later claimed that more than 450 UNRWA employees are “military operatives in terror groups in Gaza”.

The UN, which has launched an investigation into the claims, has said Israel has not provided it with evidence to support the allegations.

UNRWA, founded in 1949, provides food, healthcare and education to some 5.9 million Palestinian refugees.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/4/2/japan-lifts-pause-in-funding-for-unrwa-following-canada-australia

[coolcarer]

31 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Japan lifts pause in funding for UNRWA, The European Commission, Canada, Australia, Sweden and Finland have also lifted similar funding pauses in recent weeks.

Japan was one of 16 countries that suspended funding to UNRWA amid Israeli allegations that 12 of the agency’s staff participated in Hamas’s attacks on southern Israel.

Israeli authorities later claimed that more than 450 UNRWA employees are “military operatives in terror groups in Gaza”.

The UN, which has launched an investigation into the claims, has said Israel has not provided it with evidence to support the allegations.

UNRWA, founded in 1949, provides food, healthcare and education to some 5.9 million Palestinian refugees.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/4/2/japan-lifts-pause-in-funding-for-unrwa-following-canada-australia

Hamas will be happy, it's one of their local employers. 

 

The interim report will be out later this month on the critical areas it still needs to address that have been identified in the independent investigation report.

 

The independent review group presented the interim report findings and recommendations to the Secretary-General on Tuesday.

“It has found that UNRWA has in place a significant number of mechanisms and procedures to ensure compliance with the Humanitarian Principle of neutrality, and the group has also identified critical areas that still need to be addressed,” the note said.
The review group will now develop concrete and realistic recommendations on how to address these critical areas to strengthen and improve the agency. 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147796
 

I see the US will not resume until at least 2025

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/1/2024 at 6:28 PM, rattlesnake said:

Netanyahu now vows to evacuate the civilian population before going into Rafah. So far, to my knowledge, there are no details on how and where this evacuation will take place.
 

Israel, US set for virtual discussion on IDF's invasion of Rafah today

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-794644

There is also nowhere to put them as everywhere is bombed to bits. Perhaps he wants Davy Jones to take them.

[thaibeachlovers]

49 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Japan lifts pause in funding for UNRWA, The European Commission, Canada, Australia, Sweden and Finland have also lifted similar funding pauses in recent weeks.

Japan was one of 16 countries that suspended funding to UNRWA amid Israeli allegations that 12 of the agency’s staff participated in Hamas’s attacks on southern Israel.

Israeli authorities later claimed that more than 450 UNRWA employees are “military operatives in terror groups in Gaza”.

The UN, which has launched an investigation into the claims, has said Israel has not provided it with evidence to support the allegations.

UNRWA, founded in 1949, provides food, healthcare and education to some 5.9 million Palestinian refugees.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2024/4/2/japan-lifts-pause-in-funding-for-unrwa-following-canada-australia

Israel, IMO is only good at telling lies, and as they don't allow independent verification, some countries leaders are foolish enough to believe them.

 

Apparently israel bombed the Iranian consulate in Damascus. So much for Biden's pleas to stop the conflict spreading. Expect more attacks on American bases in the region in retaliation and more bombings in retaliation for that- and so the wheel turns and more deaths. The world is full of sorrow and the tears of widows and orphans. Humans are a vile species, always killing their own.

Edited April 2 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

it sure looks like Bibi is still determined to go into Rafah no matter what.

Of course he does. Have you see the massive israeli demonstrations calling for him to go- one demonstrator called him a dictator? Netanyahu knows soon as the conflict is over he is over. IMO if it were up to him it'd probably be going for the next 5 years.

[Wobblybob]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course he does. Have you see the massive israeli demonstrations calling for him to go- one demonstrator called him a dictator? Netanyahu knows soon as the conflict is over he is over. IMO if it were up to him it'd probably be going for the next 5 years.

Of course Israel must enter Rafah as there are still terrorists there, those that disagree with that want Israel to lose the war and the remaining terrorists will be free to commit more 7/10s. But they could always release the hostages and surrender then no more lives lost.

[rattlesnake]

31 March:

 

U.S. sends more weapons to Israel amid growing calls for cease-fire

Even with precision guidance, these bombs likely lead to civilian deaths, and it’s believed that Israel has used them in its campaign in Gaza. “These are the bombs that can destroy entire blocks,” one senior administration official said of the MK84 bombs.

[...]

Israel receives $3.8 billion in annual military assistance from the U.S., but there is growing criticism of Washington’s continued supply of weapons to Israel six months into the war amid international scrutiny of Israel’s military tactics in Gaza and a mounting civilian death toll.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-sends-weapons-israel-growing-calls-cease-fire-rcna145760

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course he does. Have you see the massive israeli demonstrations calling for him to go- one demonstrator called him a dictator? Netanyahu knows soon as the conflict is over he is over. IMO if it were up to him it'd probably be going for the next 5 years.

 

Tens of thousands of Israeli protesters call for Netanyahu’s removal

 

Thousands of people gathered in front of the Knesset in Jerusalem on Sunday to protest against the government and call for Netanyahu’s removal as prime minister.

[...]

Naama Lazimi, a member of the Knesset (MK) for the centre-left Labor party who was at the demonstration, said people had come out to protest because they recognised that the government was failing.

“The people of Israel were deep in sorrow and pain after 7 October, that is why it took so long, but when they understood there is no other option, this government is not functioning and is hurting us economically, diplomatically, in our security and in our values […] that is why people are out,” she said.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/31/israeli-protesters-call-benjamin-netanyahu-removal

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

31 March:

 

U.S. sends more weapons to Israel amid growing calls for cease-fire

Even with precision guidance, these bombs likely lead to civilian deaths, and it’s believed that Israel has used them in its campaign in Gaza. “These are the bombs that can destroy entire blocks,” one senior administration official said of the MK84 bombs.

[...]

Israel receives $3.8 billion in annual military assistance from the U.S., but there is growing criticism of Washington’s continued supply of weapons to Israel six months into the war amid international scrutiny of Israel’s military tactics in Gaza and a mounting civilian death toll.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/us-sends-weapons-israel-growing-calls-cease-fire-rcna145760

"We're going to continue to support Israel's ability to defend itself against those sworn enemies that want to see it end as a modern state." 

 

[Bkk Brian]

A reminder that the vast majority of Israeli's want the IDF to continue to Rafah no matter who is in charge of their country:

 

Most of the Israeli public (82%) supports a military operation in the area of Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, bordering Egypt. Half of the respondents said that such an operation should go ahead in any circumstances, that is, even if the US opposes it.

 

[rattlesnake]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

"We're going to continue to support Israel's ability to defend itself against those sworn enemies that want to see it end as a modern state." 

 

 

The stance of the AIPAC, an influential pro-Israeli lobby, is not surprising. What is notable, however, is the growing lack of support within the political apparatus. For example, Democrat congressman Jamaal Bowman was on MSNBC last Saturday, regarding this arms delivery issue:

 

US Congressman Blasts Netanyahu: 'Maniac'

"We need a permanent ceasefire, we need to bring in hundreds of trucks that are five miles away from Gaza right now of aid to save as many lives as possible. There's a humanitarian crisis. The majority of Gaza has already been destroyed through act of collective punishment by this maniac Benjamin Netanyahu."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/us-congressman-blasts-netanyahu-maniac-1885352

[Bkk Brian]

24 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The stance of the AIPAC, an influential pro-Israeli lobby, is not surprising. What is notable, however, is the growing lack of support within the political apparatus. For example, Democrat congressman Jamaal Bowman was on MSNBC last Saturday, regarding this arms delivery issue:

 

US Congressman Blasts Netanyahu: 'Maniac'

"We need a permanent ceasefire, we need to bring in hundreds of trucks that are five miles away from Gaza right now of aid to save as many lives as possible. There's a humanitarian crisis. The majority of Gaza has already been destroyed through act of collective punishment by this maniac Benjamin Netanyahu."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/us-congressman-blasts-netanyahu-maniac-1885352

I was quoting US Gov policy, not a single Democrat congressman by the name of Jamaal Bowman. We can all go to Republican and Dem's for quotes till the cows come home, check what Sen. John Fetterman has to say for example. Again:

 

Department Press Briefing – April 1, 2024

 

"We're going to continue to support Israel's ability to defend itself against those sworn enemies that want to see it end as a modern state." 

 

https://www.state.gov/?post_type=state_briefing&%3Bp=92333

 

Edited April 2 by Bkk Brian

[rattlesnake]

21 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I was quoting US Gov policy, not a single Democrat congressman by the name of Jamaal Bowman. We can all go to Republican and Dem's for quotes till the cows come home, check what Sen. John Fetterman has to say for example. Again:

 

Department Press Briefing – April 1, 2024

 

"We're going to continue to support Israel's ability to defend itself against those sworn enemies that want to see it end as a modern state." 

 

https://www.state.gov/?post_type=state_briefing&%3Bp=92333

 

 

Yes, the Biden administration is going all in despite increasing overall disapproval, that was the point of my first post today, about them sending those weapons.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

Yes, the Biden administration is going all in despite increasing overall disapproval, that was the point of my first post today, about them sending those weapons.

The aid package was passed by Congress.................

[rattlesnake]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The aid package was passed by Congress.................

 

It was approved by Congress in 2008, so the State Department was not required to get new approval or re-notify lawmakers. That is the whole point of congressman Bowman's stance, in the current context this is widely disapproved.

 

U.S. signs off on more bombs, warplanes for Israel

 

Some Democrats, including allies of President Biden, say the U.S. government has a responsibility to withhold weapons in the absence of an Israeli commitment to limit civilian casualties during a planned operation in Rafah, a final Hamas stronghold, and ease restrictions on humanitarian aid into the enclave, which is on the brink of famine.

[...]

Washington’s marginalization on the world stage over its support for Israel has rankled some Democrats in Congress, some of whom have called for more transparency in arms transfers and raised questions about whether the authorization of older unfilled cases is an effort to avoid new notifications to Congress, which could face scrutiny.

[...]

Biden’s recurring approvals of weapons transfers are an “abrogation of moral responsibility, and an assault on the rule of law as we know it, at both the domestic and international levels,” said Josh Paul, a former State Department official involved in arms transfers who resigned in protest of Biden’s Gaza policy.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/29/us-weapons-israel-gaza-war/

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

It was approved by Congress in 2008, so the State Department was not required to get new approval or re-notify lawmakers. That is the whole point of congressman Bowman's stance, in the current context this is widely disapproved.

 

U.S. signs off on more bombs, warplanes for Israel

 

Some Democrats, including allies of President Biden, say the U.S. government has a responsibility to withhold weapons in the absence of an Israeli commitment to limit civilian casualties during a planned operation in Rafah, a final Hamas stronghold, and ease restrictions on humanitarian aid into the enclave, which is on the brink of famine.

[...]

Washington’s marginalization on the world stage over its support for Israel has rankled some Democrats in Congress, some of whom have called for more transparency in arms transfers and raised questions about whether the authorization of older unfilled cases is an effort to avoid new notifications to Congress, which could face scrutiny.

[...]

Biden’s recurring approvals of weapons transfers are an “abrogation of moral responsibility, and an assault on the rule of law as we know it, at both the domestic and international levels,” said Josh Paul, a former State Department official involved in arms transfers who resigned in protest of Biden’s Gaza policy.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/03/29/us-weapons-israel-gaza-war/

I know when it was approved by congress on March 22nd 2024: US Congress spending plan backs Israel and they also cut further funding to UNRWA for another year

 

WASHINGTON, March 21 (Reuters) - Foreign policy provisions in the $1.2 trillion spending plan unveiled by U.S. congressional leaders on Thursday included billions of dollars in military spending, concessions to Israel

https://archive.ph/S2H36

 

So your back again to 9/11 conspiracy theorist Bowman, why does that not surprise me then? You should have checked Senator Fetterman like I said:

 

“I unequivocally support any necessary military, intelligence, and humanitarian aid to Israel. The United States has a moral obligation to be in lockstep with our ally as they confront this threat.

“I also fully support Israel neutralizing the terrorists responsible for this barbarism.”

https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-statement-on-israel/

 

Again it is US policy by majority

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

I know when it was approved by congress on March 22nd 2024: US Congress spending plan backs Israel and they also cut further funding to UNRWA for another year

 

WASHINGTON, March 21 (Reuters) - Foreign policy provisions in the $1.2 trillion spending plan unveiled by U.S. congressional leaders on Thursday included billions of dollars in military spending, concessions to Israel

https://archive.ph/S2H36

 

So your back again to 9/11 conspiracy theorist Bowman, why does that not surprise me then? You should have checked Senator Fetterman like I said:

 

“I unequivocally support any necessary military, intelligence, and humanitarian aid to Israel. The United States has a moral obligation to be in lockstep with our ally as they confront this threat.

“I also fully support Israel neutralizing the terrorists responsible for this barbarism.”

https://www.fetterman.senate.gov/press-releases/fetterman-statement-on-israel/

 

Again it is US policy by majority

 

Last week, the State Department authorized the transfer of 25 F-35A fighter jets and engines worth roughly $2.5 billion, U.S. officials said. The case was approved by Congress in 2008, so the department was not required to provide a new notification to lawmakers. The MK84 and MK82 bombs authorized this week for transfer also were approved by Congress years ago but had not yet been fulfilled.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/us-congressman-blasts-netanyahu-maniac-1885352

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

 

Last week, the State Department authorized the transfer of 25 F-35A fighter jets and engines worth roughly $2.5 billion, U.S. officials said. The case was approved by Congress in 2008, so the department was not required to provide a new notification to lawmakers. The MK84 and MK82 bombs authorized this week for transfer also were approved by Congress years ago but had not yet been fulfilled.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/us-congressman-blasts-netanyahu-maniac-1885352

Who cares? US Congress did not need to back the spending plan now but it did back it and voted for it now on 21st March and that's why the budget is now there. This deflection to 2008 has nothing to do with it. You keep saying it was widely disapproved and quoted only the  conspiracy theorist Bowman. Unless there is a poll within the US gov on this then back to what I said before:

 

We can all go to Republican and Dem's for quotes till the cows come home

 

 

[rattlesnake]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Who cares? US Congress did not need to back the spending plan now but it did back it and voted for it now on 21st March and that's why the budget is now there. This deflection to 2008 has nothing to do with it. You keep saying it was widely disapproved and quoted only the  conspiracy theorist Bowman. Unless there is a poll within the US gov on this then back to what I said before:

 

We can all go to Republican and Dem's for quotes till the cows come home

 

 

 

Lots of people care, which is why it is the topic of articles by various outlets such as Newsweek and The Washington Post, which I posted here.

 

I also quoted veteran State Department official Josh Paul, who resigned because of this issue, and I could quote lots more but you would still refuse to hear or acknowledge it.

Edited April 2 by rattlesnake
Typo.