TM30 problem

[IvorBiggun2]

4 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

 

The N.S.4. J or Chanote is a certificate of true ownership for land and the only true ownership land title deed. 

Well done.

[john donson]

On 3/10/2024 at 12:06 AM, proton said:

why do they need TM 30 when they have TM47 every 90 days anyway?

 

yeah that is the crazy part, thai logic

[john donson]

21 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

 

No it is not your problem. In nearly 20 years I've never heard of anyone being refused a visa cuz the landlord refuses to fill out a TM30.

 

samut prakarn refused to to a 30 day extension for my mom as the tm30 had my id, as possessor of the house and not owner id, which... is my ex-wife

 

i hoped to pay 2k fine, but nope ... needed my ex-wife id card, and she is hostile as hell

 

when I mentioned, so my mom will check in a hotel for the tm30, they got upset and said they would refuse that too

 

but I have a very bad SP office experience... since my divorce, that is...

[fulhamster]

On 3/10/2024 at 6:57 AM, IvorBiggun2 said:

I agree. TM30 is not the OP's problem.

 

 

 

It is when the landlord doesn't file one

[Seeall]

On 3/10/2024 at 9:00 AM, tee1eel said:

I question a lot of what they ask for, lol. But you know, i just smile and say ok. I've given up trying to understand the 'why'.

 

A lot of the time they don't know either.. it just comes out .... the irrelevant questions...  perhaps its the thought process paths not coming up with anything logical so it just chooses a random irregularity...  this happens in any topic..

indeed an interesting topic for the  Dr's ..

 

[IvorBiggun2]

53 minutes ago, fulhamster said:

It is when the landlord doesn't file one

No it is not. Immigration officers must love you. You save them having to do the leg work.

 

 

Quote

 

The TM30 Notification in Thailand

 

ThaiEmbassy.com

https://www.thaiembassy.com › thailand-visa › about-t...

 

 

 

Who should do the notification? Officially and practically, the responsibility to report the stay of a foreigner rests with the host: the landlord of a property 

 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, john donson said:

so my mom will check in a hotel for the tm30, they got upset and said they would refuse that too

They can't. Who got fined at the end of the day.

[Confuscious]

Why are we required to bleed for something that is not our business?

 

The TM30 is a requirement to fullfil by the owner of the property that is rented by the foreigner and it's the task of the owner to see that he is doing this according to the law 

Not the task of the renter.

 

If you rent a hotel room, the hotel will copy your passport and follow the immigration procedures.

The same apply when the foreigner rent a property.

[Georgealbert]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No it is not. Immigration officers must love you. You save them having to do the leg work.

 

 

 

Hope you are aware that the link you posted is not to any official site.

 

Here is the link to the immigration website and the wording of section is different from your quote, and says responsibility is the owner or occupant.

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/

[Liquorice]

53 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

The TM30 is a requirement to fullfil by the owner of the property that is rented by the foreigner and it's the task of the owner to see that he is doing this according to the law 

Not the task of the renter.

Can you provide evidence of that?

[Liquorice]

33 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Hope you are aware that the link you posted is not to any official site.

 

Here is the link to the immigration website and the wording of section is different from your quote, and says responsibility is the owner or occupant.

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/

 

Immigration should try copy and paste.

 

The actual wording from the Immigration states;
Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

Section 4 of the Act, then defines the house master as:
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 

Edited March 11 by Liquorice

[IvorBiggun2]

29 minutes ago, Georgealbert said:

Here is the link to the immigration website and the wording of section is different from your quote, and says responsibility is the owner or occupant.

The article you posted must be the worst article for grammatically English. Go look at the errors in it.

[IvorBiggun2]

19 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Can you provide evidence of that?

Yes

Quote

 

Notification form for accepting foreigners to stay For the home owner The owner or possessor of the dwelling (TM.30) consists of two parts (2 sheets) of documents. The first part is filling in the details of the owner of the house and the location of the place where the foreigners stay. The second part is the list of names. Foreigners staying in
Filling in details in Form TM.30 Part 2, please complete all fields. Mainly look at the passport of the foreign person. Due to the details of foreign persons which foreigners write before moving to stay are often incorrect And filling in must be done by typing or writing. If it is writing, write it in BLOCK LETTER and be careful in filling it out as follows:
1. Name of the alien. The space between first name, middle name and last name must be clearly visible.
2. Passport number. If there are letters in front Or behind the number, write it down as well.
3. Incoming card number field. Fill in the arrival card number (TM.6 card) which is attached to the passport. By filling in the same as
4. Entering the passport number, that is, if there are letters Please fill in the letters as well.
5. Entry date means the date the foreigner entered the Kingdom of Thailand. For the day of stay Fill in the form on the front page of the notification for accepting foreigners to stay.

The official will check the information in the TM.30 form. Upon inspection, it is found that the information has been filled in correctly and completely. The official receives the notification and tears the lower part of the TM.30 form for the informant to keep.

 

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/

[Liquorice]

3 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Yes

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/

And what part of the responsibility also being the 'possessor, tenant, or in any other capacity whatsoever' did you fail to understand.

[Georgealbert]

40 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The article you posted must be the worst article for grammatically English. Go look at the errors in it.

Why would I look for the errors, it was not my words, but I could understand what it was attempting to state.
 

It was the Thai immigration translation, posted on their official web site.

 

At least a correct link to a credible source.

Edited March 11 by Georgealbert

[Georgealbert]

44 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

Immigration should try copy and paste.

 

The actual wording from the Immigration states;
Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

 

Section 4 of the Act, then defines the house master as:
“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979) ENG.pdf 87.61 kB · 0 downloads  

Yes agree.

 

My picture was straight from the immigration website, and it does highlight that the other quote from a commercial legal company, does not show the full details.

Edited March 11 by Georgealbert

[IvorBiggun2]

 

Quote

 

What is TM30 notification?

The TM30 notification and its underlying laws are about the obligation of a landlord (housemaster, possessor, or manager) to report the stay of a foreigner (non-Thai national) in his/her property.

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/about-tm30-thailand#:~:text=The TM30 notification and its,) in his%2Fher property.

 

Quote

The above article is  managed by Siam Legal
International - a law firm in Thailand

 

Edited March 11 by IvorBiggun2

[soi3eddie]

The real issue here is that it IS the tenant's responsibility to file the TM30. Unfortunately that is impossible without co-operation of the property owner in providing the ID card, house book/s and or chanote. A horrible situation for the OP and I hope she gets it sorted. 

 

As an aside, and a warning to others, I would never pay a deposit to a landlord until they have provided the documentation required for the TM30. I would then set it up on the online system so that I could file a TM30 for myself when required. The new online TM30 system is excellent, took me 15 minutes to register and then only 2 minutes each time to file a TM30.

 

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

The real issue here is that it IS the tenant's responsibility to file the TM30. Unfortunately that is impossible without co-operation of the property owner in providing the ID card, house book/s and or chanote. A horrible situation for the OP and I hope she gets it sorted. 

 

As an aside, and a warning to others, I would never pay a deposit to a landlord until they have provided the documentation required for the TM30. I would then set it up on the online system so that I could file a TM30 for myself when required. The new online TM30 system is excellent, took me 15 minutes to register and then only 2 minutes each time to file a TM30.

 

Last page or two have been nonsense bickering. 

Your post is very good summary of how things actually work. 

 

[tee1eel]

11 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

You may have to resort to an agent, if available.

Somebody here suggested that. And they know of two here. Today the one officer at immigration who checks all but tourist extension documents was too busy to see me. I have to go back on Wednesday and pay an overstay fine....

 

[DrJack54]

10 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

Today the one officer at immigration who checks all but tourist extension documents was too busy to see me. I have to go back on Wednesday and pay an overstay fine...

May not be just overstay fine.

Be aware that immigration may refuse your application and give you 7 days to exit Thailand. 

It's not an extension.  

[Confuscious]

FWIW, Thaivisa.com/AseanNow.com has many members.
It would be worth to take a "donation" from all members (free will) and hire a Lawyer to investigate the TM30 requirement.
The tenant can not meet the requirements if the Landlord does not cooperate or is not complete legal and thus it should not be a burden to the tenant.
TM30 shall be a task for the Landlord, just like a Hotel is required to report your stay at their promises.
Just my 2 cents.

[tee1eel]

49 minutes ago, soi3eddie said:

The real issue here is that it IS the tenant's responsibility to file the TM30. Unfortunately that is impossible without co-operation of the property owner in providing the ID card, house book/s and or chanote. A horrible situation for the OP and I hope she gets it sorted. 

 

As an aside, and a warning to others, I would never pay a deposit to a landlord until they have provided the documentation required for the TM30. I would then set it up on the online system so that I could file a TM30 for myself when required. The new online TM30 system is excellent, took me 15 minutes to register and then only 2 minutes each time to file a TM30.

 

I did think it was the landlords responsibility to file the TM30 and didn't think to check. Also, I hold my hands up, I left it way to late to apply for my extension, stupid mistake. Lessons have been learnt. Thanks for your kind words

[tee1eel]

12 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

May not be just overstay fine.

Be aware that immigration may refuse your application and give you 7 days to exit Thailand. 

It's not an extension.  

Yes, I'm aware I'm not out of the woods yet, by any means. 

[Confuscious]

19 minutes ago, tee1eel said:

I did think it was the landlords responsibility to file the TM30 and didn't think to check. 

 

In most countries, the foreigner need to report within a given time frame (24/48 hours) that he stays at address "x".
If the foreigner rents a house/apartment, he is required to show the rental contract.

The tenant is required within a given time frame (24/48 hours) that he allows/rent the foreigner to stay at his property for a given time.
In the case the tenant has rented his property to the foreigner, he need to show a rental contract to the police.

That's the way a TM30 should work and the Thai interpretation.

It is worth to hire a lawyer and defend this in court. 
Getting rid of a pesky requirement for the foreigners.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

In most countries, the foreigner need to report within a given time frame (24/48 hours) that he stays at address "x".
If the foreigner rents a house/apartment, he is required to show the rental contract.

Please provide your "in most countries" list 

 

23 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

It is worth to hire a lawyer and defend this in court. 
Getting rid of a pesky requirement for the foreigners

Are you being remotely serious? 

[DrJack54]

42 minutes ago, Confuscious said:

The tenant can not meet the requirements if the Landlord does not cooperate or is not complete legal and thus it should not be a burden to the tenant

You can look at it another way. 

The tenant should confirm guarantee that the landlord will provide tm30 prior to making rental contract. 

Personally have few condo and one townhouse. Two of which rented to farang 

Did TM30 at time signing contract. 

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

 

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/about-tm30-thailand#:~:text=The TM30 notification and its,) in his%2Fher property.

 

 

Your point being what exactly?

 

You're quoting a personal opinion from a commercial website with the only factual reference to section 37 of the Immigration Act, which is now defunct due to new Immigration TM30 regulations published in 2020. That sort of pre-dates that article prior to 2020 and is out of date with the information.

 

If as you surmise it's the landlord's responsibility, why does the TM30 online registration site allow foreigners to register as a tenant/possessor of the residence.

[DrJack54]

At 3 pages the OP has his advice and now ongoing debates about who is responsible for TM30.

Thread closed