Inherit condo, girlfriends will - "PERMANANT " resident or not - have to sell within 1 year

[TigerCat]

I'm in my girlfriend's Will for her Condo.

 

I spoke to a Thai lawyer that said if she passes, if the condo complex is under 49% foreign owned (51% Thai / 49% Foreign rule), than I do not have to sell the condo within one year.  He said he is 100% sure of this.   

 

But I found 4 websites that say if you are not a "Permanent" resident, you have to sell it within one year.  I have posted the websites below. 

 

Does anyone know about this?

 

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19

 

https://www.duensingkippen.com/thailandpropertylawblog/?p=97

 

1)    Any non-Thai permitted to permanently reside in the Kingdom under the Immigration Act;

 

https://www.tilleke.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/2013-nov1-inheritance-of-condominium-units.pdf

 

  (1) foreign individuals who hold a Permanent Residence permit;   

 

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

Foreign individuals possessing a Permanent Residence permit.

 

 

 

 

[Mike Lister]

Your lawyer is correct. 

 

The only way you can become a Resident in Thailand is to become a naturalised Thai subject, foreigners here on long stay visa's are not Residents in that context.

 

Your willed ownership of the condo will depend on the quota's at the time. Assuming the condo was purchased from within the Thai quota (51%), the foreign owned quota at the time of her passing will determine whether the unit you are willed can be absorbed into that quota or not. If it can, you will not have to sell. If it cannot, you will have to sell.

 

 

[Henryford]

It would help if you had made it clear. Your girlfriend is Thai and the condo is in Thai name?

[TigerCat]

Mike Lister

 

I know my lawyer is correct about the 51%  Thai / 49% Foreigner quota. 

 

But I am not a Permanent resident, and my lawyer did not reply to this when I asked him about it.  So what about the Permanent resident part? 

 

Henryford

 

Yes, my girlfriend is Thai and the condo is in her name. And she has me in her name to inherit the condo if she passes before me. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Mike Lister

 

I know my lawyer is correct about the 51%  Thai / 49% Foreigner quota. 

 

But I am not a Permanent resident, and my lawyer did not reply to this when I asked him about it.  So what about the Permanent resident part? 

 

Henryford

 

Yes, my girlfriend is Thai and the condo is in her name. And she has me in her name to inherit the condo if she passes before me. 

What I wrote that you seem to have overlooked is this:

 

"The only way you can become a Resident in Thailand is to become a naturalised Thai subject, foreigners here on long stay visa's are not Residents in that context".

 

You do not have to be a permanent resident to own a condo in the foreign quota, if you were, it wouldn't be in the foreign quota, it would be in the Thai quota.

[TigerCat]

Mike Lister 

I don't see anyway to reply "directly" to a comment. How can I do that?

 

I didn't overlook what you wrote, I just didn't understand what it had to do with my inheriting the condo.

 

So if I herniate the condo, even if I am not a permanent  resident, I do not have to sell the condo because it is not even close to 49% foreigner owned. 

 

That's good to hear. (Although the websites saying I'd have to be a permanent resident confuse me.)  Thank you for your replies.  

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

I didn't overlook what you wrote, I just didn't understand what it had to do with my inheriting the condo.

 

So if I herniate the condo, even if I am not a permanent  resident, I do not have to sell the condo because it is not even close to 49% foreigner owned. 

 

That's good to hear. (Although the websites saying I'd have to be a permanent resident confuse me.)  Thank you for your replies.  

 

I tested replying directly to you comment, it didn't work. 

It's a terminology thing. Permanent Resident equates to being a Thai citizen or a naturalised citizen, everyone else is a visa holder.

[TigerCat]

Mike Lister

 

Sorry to go off topic, but why if we are here for more than 180 days, are we "residents", for tax purposes? 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Mike Lister

 

Sorry to go off topic, but why if we are here for more than 180 days, are we "residents", for tax purposes? 

Yes, but you are still not a Thai Permanent Resident.

[Gottfrid]

11 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Mike Lister

 

Sorry to go off subject, but why if we are here for more than 180 days, are we "residents", for tax purposes? 

Yes, but that is only a tax resident, and has nothing to do with naturalization. If the condo you are to inherit fits in the system without getting over 49% foreign owned condos you will have no problem.

 

In that case there is absolutely no need to sell. The need to be resident only affects you if the condo does not fit into the foreign maximum of 49%, and therefore will fall under the Thai 51%.

Actually there are also differences between what they call permanent resident and Thai resident, and only Thai resident had to do with naturalization. However, that is not anything you need to think about as you said it easily fits in the 49% foreign bracket.

[Sigmund]

Another honest warning to foreigners not to buy property in Thailand, Rent at most.

[TigerCat]

Why do those 4 websites say that if a foreigner is not a permanent resident, they have to sell an inherited condo within one year? 

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, Sigmund said:

Another honest warning to foreigners not to buy property in Thailand, Rent at most.

Nonsense.

 

When you walk away from your ten years of renting, you get to kiss 10 x 12 x X baht goodbye.

 

When the condo/house owner walks away from their ten years of ownership, they get their 10 x 12 x X baht back, with interest, plus they lived rent free for rent years.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Why do those 4 websites say that if a foreigner is not a permanent resident, they have to sell an inherited condo within one year? 

Last time on this: Foreigners can become naturalised Thai citizens. The term Permanent Resident is synonymous with Citizen, naturalised or otherwise.

[digbeth]

3 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Why do those 4 websites say that if a foreigner is not a permanent resident, they have to sell an inherited condo within one year? 

 

If the foreigner quota is filled up already, yes they have to sell

[lexxy]

The condo juristic would need to manually switch ur condo over to foreign name, so in essence there would be a sale of sorts even to yourself

[Mike Lister]

1 minute ago, lexxy said:

The condo juristic would need to manually switch ur condo over to foreign name, so in essence there would be a sale of sorts even to yourself

There's no sale of any sort, the unit is simply reallocated.

[Liquorice]

 

14 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Why do those 4 websites say that if a foreigner is not a permanent resident, they have to sell an inherited condo within one year? 

https://www.duensingkippen.com/thailandpropertylawblog/?p=97

Only non-Thais who meet one or more of the following conditions are entitled to receive a freehold title to a condominium unit in Thailand, regardless of how they received the unit:

1)    Any non-Thai permitted to permanently reside in the Kingdom under the Immigration Act;

 

I am not a Thai resident in the sense of the word, but having a 1-year extension of stay, I am permitted to permanently reside in Thailand, albeit one year at a time under the Immigration Act.

 

Regardless of the situation, there always remains the option to register the Condo in a Thai name and protect your right to remain there with a usufruct or similar.

[SABloke]

21 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Last time on this: Foreigners can become naturalised Thai citizens. The term Permanent Resident is synonymous with Citizen, naturalised or otherwise.

 

Incorrect - you can become a permanent resident and not be Thai citizen. The requirements are different depending on whether you are married or not.

[TigerCat]

Liquorice

 

Thank you for the usufruct idea, but if I am understanding Mike Lister and Gottfrid correctly, they are saying:

 

Even if I am not a permanent resident, and I am not - if I herniate the condo that is in my Thai girlfriend's name from her Will, as long as the complex is not over 49% owned, and it is not, than I do not have to sell the condo within one year.

 

I still don't understand why I would not have to sell considering that I am not a permanent resident, the "legal language" is complicated for me.  

[Mike Lister]

16 minutes ago, SABloke said:

 

Incorrect - you can become a permanent resident and not be Thai citizen. The requirements are different depending on whether you are married or not.

Can you explain that please?

[lopburi3]

37 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

There's no sale of any sort, the unit is simply reallocated.

But foreign ownership normally requires purchase price to have been transferred into Thailand by the owner and proven by official records.  I am still not convinced that a will of land ownership to an unrelated foreigner would even be approved for one year to sell (which is the marriage joint property inheritance provision).

[HampiK]

14 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Can you explain that please?

I guess he mean, when you are married to a Thai you can skip the permanent resident and go direct to a Thai passport (more or less same requirements).

IF you are not married the requirements for becoming a Thai passport (citizen) is more difficult than "only" becoming a permanent resident!

 

Anyway without working (paying taxes) both states are almost impossible.

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

But foreign ownership normally requires purchase price to have been transferred into Thailand by the owner and proven by official records.  I am still not convinced that a will of land ownership to an unrelated foreigner would even be approved for one year to sell (which is the marriage joint property inheritance provision).

I also am not certain if inheritance law will take precedent over property acquisition law, but I suspect it will.

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, HampiK said:

I guess he mean, when you are married to a Thai you can skip the permanent resident and go direct to a Thai passport (more or less same requirements).

IF you are not married the requirements for becoming a Thai passport (citizen) is more difficult than "only" becoming a permanent resident!

 

Anyway without working (paying taxes) both states are almost impossible.

Thanks. So in both cases, the person becomes a Thai passport holder, ergo, a Thai citizen, which is what I  always believed to be the case.

[TigerCat]

I'm sorry to keep dwelling on this, but something does not seem right. 

 

This link especially:

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

Is seems to clearly say you have to be a Permanent resident, in order to not have to sell an inherited condo within one year.

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Can you explain that please?

 

Permanent residency is a separate process apart from acquiring citizenship, but has some similar requirements such as being employed and paying taxes at the time of application among other things. I successfully went through the process of obtaining PR back in the prior millennium.

 

With PR, there is no annual renewal at immigration or 90 day reporting and one's name is entered into the blue tabien baan. It does not allow land ownership or very many other rights associated with citizenship, but it is permanent in that it is not subject to renewal. It can be lost or revoked, but Thai citizenship can also be revoked if one is naturalized. 

 

 

[HampiK]

10 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

I'm sorry to keep dwelling on this, but something does not seem right. 

 

This link especially:

https://bangkoklegal.com/bangkok-foreign-condo-ownership-condo-inheritance-laws-in-thailand/

 

Is seems to clearly say you have to be a Permanent resident, in order to not have to sell an inherited condo within one year.

 

Do I qualify for foreign ownership?

 

If you think you might inherit or have just inherited a condo, do you meet the criteria required for foreign ownership which is – do you hold a Permanent Residence permit under Section 19 (1) or do you reside in Thailand under the laws governing investment promotion under Section 19 (2)?

If registering the property under your name doesn’t exceed the foreign ownership of 49% and you qualify for foreign ownership, then there’s no problem going forward, and you will be permitted to keep the condominium.

However, if registering your condo ownership will cause foreign ownership in the entire condominium project to exceed 49% or if you don’t qualify for foreign ownership then you are not permitted to own the unit, under the law, and are required to dispose of the condo, within one year from the date you acquired it.

Another critical point to note – Even if the Thai-foreign ownership ratio is not exceeded but you don’t qualify for foreign ownership, then you are still required to dispose of it within one year from the acquisition date.

To qualify for foreign owership is, that the quota is not full yet (49%).
and that the property is build within the Thai condominium act. If it was build under the condo act, then every foreigner can buy a room in there as long the quota of 49% is not reached!

[freeworld]

The only thing which matters is the actual laws, not some web sites explaining things around on the websites.

 

CONDOMINIUM ACT
B.E. 2522 (1979) as amended 2008

 

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/condominium-act-ownership-sections-19-1-19-11/

 

Chapter 2: Ownership of Apartment

Section 19. Foreigners

Aliens (foreigners) and juristic persons regarded by law as aliens (foreign) may hold ownership of an apartment if the are the following:

Aliens permitted to have residence in the Kingdom under the Immigration law;

 

Section Code: 0040 - 0052

Immigration Act, B.E. 2522

Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom

 

• Details

Chapter 5: Entering to take Residence in the Kingdom

https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/thai-immigration-act-take-residence-in-the-kingdom-sections-40-52/

 

My opinion is

 

If a Thai owns a condo and the condo is in the 49% foreign quota, the condo can be transferred as inheritance to a perm resident or Thai national.

If the foreigner is not a perm resident, the land office must be notified in 60 days and sell up in 12 months.

 

If the owner is foreign and bequeaths the ownership to a foreigner  the foreign ownership can be transferred.

 

 

[TigerCat]

HampiK

 

But my previous post  is not about buying, it's about inheriting.