Inherit condo, girlfriends will - "PERMANANT " resident or not - have to sell within 1 year

[Mike Lister]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Not at all, it is super logical to do even, as it is much easier for a Thai to get a proper mortgage and the foreigner is often bringing in money from abroad or working online, having his businesses or jobs abroad (making mortgages again hard to impossible). 

 

All the exceptions to the rule(s) is when people earn this above average amount of money, to even high amounts, where there are some doors opened. I can earn 100K a month and get no mortgage, even having 10+ years statements proving it along with other documentation and company records, getting no condo in Thailand for sure. My girlfriend can earn 40K baht for 6-12 months, and buy any 1.5-2M baht condo, basically.

Yes, maybe so. It's just that I've never seen a single instance of that. But I've seen loads of cases where foreigners have purchased condo's in their own name, because it was the only way they could obtain real estate of their own, even though they may have had a Thai partner. Many foreigners balk at the idea of buying houses in their partners name, because of the lack of personal financial security that condo ownership offers. Most Thai wives I've encountered seem to want to buy houses rather than condo's although both have merits and drawbacks. 

[ChaiyaTH]

7 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Yes, maybe so. It's just that I've never seen a single instance of that. But I've seen loads of cases where foreigners have purchased condo's in their own name, because it was the only way they could obtain real estate of their own, even though they may have had a Thai partner. Many foreigners balk at the idea of buying houses in their partners name, because of the lack of personal financial security that condo ownership offers. Most Thai wives I've encountered seem to want to buy houses rather than condo's although both have merits and drawbacks. 

I guess it depends on the age groups, on the higher age end, usually there is some existing wealth already. There is also the younger ones, I moved here in my early 20s, I know dozens who did similar to me, and nowadays that is even quite normal to do as working remote is a 'new standard'. 

I would most likely go for a condo too, even if it was to rent out and then rent a house myself, if it was my own money. However in my case I am married and have a son too, so the idea is that all of it eventually goes to my son anyway. To protect a house one could do a 30 year lease as well, buys a lot of time. You might never own something but still be sure to outlive it, and compared to rent, still make a return or even profit on it too (this is why many do it in south).

Last but not least in recent years, if people are married, it is not impossible to get at least 50% of your worth back if you take them to court. As long you can prove you paid for things and you bought it after you married, judges are not that fancy of girls taking advantage of guys here anymore, including foreigners. 

[TigerCat]

Now that it seems confirmed to me that I would have to be a Permanent resident to not have to sell the condo within one year, the usufruct idea sounds like something I should research. 

 

Can a usufruct be used with a condo, or is that only for land? 

[jayboy]

53 minutes ago, SABloke said:

No, I mean that the requirements for getting permanent residency is easier when one is married.

 

Er, no it's not.Requirements are largely the same and in my opinion in some ways more inconvenient.It's cheaper though.

[FritsSikkink]

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The only way you can become a Resident in Thailand is to become a naturalised Thai subject

One can become a Permanant resident without becoming a Thai subject. Two different processes with different rules.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, Sigmund said:

Another honest warning to foreigners not to buy property in Thailand, Rent at most.

Another dishonest, ill-informed, scaremongering "warning" that has no credibility in general.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, SABloke said:

If you are a permanent resident, you never have to apply for annual extensions, reentry permits or do 90 day reporting etc. You can't, however, vote or buy land.

 

The process is different if you are married vs single e.g. if you are single you need to have an income of 80,000 THB per month whereas if you are married it is only 30,000. The exact requirements are updated every few years. 

 

 

PR holders need a re-entry visa (non-quota immigrant visa) in order to be able to retain PR if they wish to travel abroad. This visa is good for one year and the PR holder has to be back in Thailand before it expires.

[TigerCat]

Perhaps a Lease is something to consider?

 

https://www.integrity-legal.com/real-estate-thailand/lease-agreement.html

[TigerCat]

But what would happen to a Usufruct or Lease, if I inherit the condo?

 

Would the Usufruct or Lease expire? 

[SABloke]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Er, no it's not.Requirements are largely the same and in my opinion in some ways more inconvenient.It's cheaper though.

 

True, cheaper is not necessarily easier per se 👍. Now for Thai citizenship, it definitely is easier if married (especially for foreign women), but that's neither here nor there with regards to this thread.

[SABloke]

3 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

PR holders need a re-entry visa (non-quota immigrant visa) in order to be able to retain PR if they wish to travel abroad. This visa is good for one year and the PR holder has to be back in Thailand before it expires.

 

You are indeed correct. Out of interest, can this be applied for at the port of exit, or does one need to go to immigration, get a ticket, and go through the whole tedious process where 4/5 people check the same documents before giving you the stamp?

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, SABloke said:

 

You are indeed correct. Out of interest, can this be applied for at the port of exit, or does one need to go to immigration, get a ticket, and go through the whole tedious process where 4/5 people check the same documents before giving you the stamp?

 

In addition to needing a re-entry visa, a PR holder needs an endorsement in their TM16/TM17 booklet (certificate of residence). This is also valid for one year and can only be obtained at immigration. 

 

I do not know if it would be possible to get a non-quota immigrant visa at the airport if one still had validity on the endorsement but had used up a single entry visa. I have always gotten a multiple entry non-quota immigrant visa at the same time I got an endorsement.

 

Getting these stamps at CW has never been difficult. There is a separate section for this and there are usually only a handful of applicants present. I hand my documents in by 9 am and have them back around 11. There are a couple of forms to fill out, photos to present and fingerprints go give, but it is painless and the officers have always been courteous. There is no requirement to submit any financial documents, proof of marital status, proof of employment or anything like that. Just the application forms, photos and fingerprints along with passport, TM16/17 and red police book. Oh, and the fees.

[Dan SG]

19 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

And you proof and confirmation of this is where, in what link?

 

Regarding the second part of what you wrote: sending the purchase funds out of Thailand once the unit is sold, is simple enough. All that is required is the blue tax paid receipt from the Land Office and the banks will transmit those funds, I've done that twice without difficulty.

Yes but that means you need to keep the funds idle in thailand while you own the property.  It's different to bringing them in for a genuine purchase from a third party.  Seems a crazy outcome and can't see how it would ever be worth brining funds into thailand just to inherit the property - better off just selling. 

[BKKBike09]

On 3/26/2024 at 11:26 AM, TigerCat said:

Now that it seems confirmed to me that I would have to be a Permanent resident to not have to sell the condo within one year, the usufruct idea sounds like something I should research. 

 

Since one year sounds like a long time but actually isn't, you'd also need to find out when the clock starts ticking. Does your 'ownership' start from the day your partner dies, or from the day that your name is added to the title deed? Should be the latter, because I don't see how you could sell if you are not shown as the legal owner.

 

Of course, also begs the question "what happens if you can't sell within one year"? Title automatically reverts to Land Department? A buyer knowing that you have limited options could push for a fire sale price.

 

Does you GF own the apartment outright or is it on a mortgage? That would be another complication.

[dinga]

On 3/26/2024 at 7:19 AM, Mike Lister said:

It's a terminology thing. Permanent Resident equates to being a Thai citizen or a naturalised citizen, everyone else is a visa holder.

RUBBISH  -  I'm a farang with PR Status, and NOT a Thai citizen.  I cannot own land in Thailand and if a beneficiary in a WILL will need to sell any bequeathed land within 12 months

 

[namatjira]

Ever heard of that law being enforced ? NO...... never 

[Dan SG]

Been following this closely as own a couple of condos.  I've read these article but have always been confused too but put to the back of my mind but starting to age a bit now so should really think about it.  I guess the key questions is this: if the quota is not yet full, do you need to bring FX into Thailand to enable the property to transferred into beneficiaries name.  While I haven't consulted a lawyer on this my take from all the articles i've read is: yes the beneficiary would need to otherwise they would have to sell in the year.  What i've never been able to figure is this - can they then move the FX back out of Thailand (assuming they have it!)? And if they do, when they eventually sell can they move the sales proceeds back out of Thailand? I suspect the FX on one of the legs would effectively get trapped and would need to be moved in small portions out or spent in thailand or holidays back in Thailand!

[tomazbodner]

Just wondering if OP has an option to apply for a permanent residence? Apart from foreign quota (which is rarely an issue except in very touristy areas), that should get the rest of issues out of the way. PR is not as difficult to get as some say, as long as you qualify to apply and are willing to put some effort in it.

[TigerCat]

BKKBike09 

"Does you GF own the apartment outright or is it on a mortgage? That would be another complication."

 

She owns the condo outright. 

[TigerCat]

tomazbodner

"Just wondering if OP has an option to apply for a permanent residence?"

 

I quickly researched it, it didn't seem that easy to me. 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

3 hours ago, Dan SG said:

Been following this closely as own a couple of condos.  I've read these article but have always been confused too but put to the back of my mind but starting to age a bit now so should really think about it.  I guess the key questions is this: if the quota is not yet full, do you need to bring FX into Thailand to enable the property to transferred into beneficiaries name.  While I haven't consulted a lawyer on this my take from all the articles i've read is: yes the beneficiary would need to otherwise they would have to sell in the year.  What i've never been able to figure is this - can they then move the FX back out of Thailand (assuming they have it!)? And if they do, when they eventually sell can they move the sales proceeds back out of Thailand? I suspect the FX on one of the legs would effectively get trapped and would need to be moved in small portions out or spent in thailand or holidays back in Thailand!

 

My understanding is this:

 

If the testator was a foreigner who brought money into Thailand for the purpose of purchasing the condo, and this was duly documented at the Land Department at the time it was transferred to the testator, then the testator's foreign beneficiary would not need to have permanent residency in order to be able to register and keep the unit in their name. 

 

The foreign beneficiary inherits not only the condo itself from the foreign testator, but also the foreign testator's right to own the condo by virtue of the funds having been brought in from abroad. 

 

If the testator is a Thai, then the foreign beneficiary will need to have PR or sell within 12 months. I don't think there is a work-around involving money from abroad for this scenario.

 

But I suggest you get this clarified by a lawyer.

[donx]

8 hours ago, Etaoin Shrdlu said:

 

My understanding is this:

 

If the testator was a foreigner who brought money into Thailand for the purpose of purchasing the condo, and this was duly documented at the Land Department at the time it was transferred to the testator, then the testator's foreign beneficiary would not need to have permanent residency in order to be able to register and keep the unit in their name. 

 

The foreign beneficiary inherits not only the condo itself from the foreign testator, but also the foreign testator's right to own the condo by virtue of the funds having been brought in from abroad. 

 

If the testator is a Thai, then the foreign beneficiary will need to have PR or sell within 12 months. I don't think there is a work-around involving money from abroad for this scenario.

 

But I suggest you get this clarified by a lawyer.

I remember a thread on this forum a few years ago where a foreigner inherited a condo from his/her foreign father and either had to bring in the government assessed value of the condo from outside of Thailand or sell the inherited unit.

 

If that is the case, then I would expect the same would be true for a foreigner inheriting a condo from a Thai, assuming the foreign allocation is under 49%.

 

I don't own anything in Thailand, so I can only comment on what I have read on here before. My wife owns several properties that will all be inherited by our Thai/US citizen children.

 

I agree this needs clarification from a reputable lawyer.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

2 minutes ago, donx said:

I remember a thread on this forum a few years ago where a foreigner inherited a condo from his/her foreign father and either had to bring in the government assessed value of the condo from outside of Thailand or sell the inherited unit.

 

If that is the case, then I would expect the same would be true for a foreigner inheriting a condo from a Thai, assuming the foreign allocation is under 49%.

 

I don't own anything in Thailand, so I can only comment on what I have read on here before. My wife owns several properties that will all be inherited by our Thai/US citizen children.

 

I agree this needs clarification from a reputable lawyer.

 

If the foreign father had PR and did not bring the funds to purchase the condo from abroad, then I can see that there would be an issue. There may be other aspects of the particular case as well, including a Land Department office not following the rules or not having proper paperwork. 

 

I would certainly recommend that anyone in a similar situation get proper legal advice specific to their situation.

[TigerCat]

Something I should have mentioned before - a woman at the Land Department said I would not have to sell within one year, she said that is only for land.

 

But I don't know if she is correct or not.  

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, TigerCat said:

Something I should have mentioned before - a woman at the Land Department said I would not have to sell within one year, she said that is only for land.

 

But I don't know if she is correct or not.  

You started a thread saying that you've found four web sites which state something that contradicts what the Land Office has already told you is not true, but you didn't tell us that. Then you're asking forum members to tell you whether the web sites are correct or not! And now you have told us what the Land Office has said, you're asking forum members to tell you whether the Land Office employee is correct or not!

 

You should consider asking for your thread to be closed.

 

 

[prakhonchai nick]

On 3/26/2024 at 8:09 AM, SABloke said:

 

Incorrect - you can become a permanent resident and not be Thai citizen. The requirements are different depending on whether you are married or not.

CORRECT.

[prakhonchai nick]

On 3/27/2024 at 3:21 PM, dinga said:

RUBBISH  -  I'm a farang with PR Status, and NOT a Thai citizen.  I cannot own land in Thailand and if a beneficiary in a WILL will need to sell any bequeathed land within 12 months

 

That is correct. I too hold PR.

However whilst one cannot inherit land, a condo is different, as the land is effectively leased, But if the foreign ownership of the entire condo is full, one may not be able to transfer ownership after death of the Thai owner.

[john donson]

ask girlfriend to put you a totally free usufruct... problem solved... 70 baht

[TigerCat]

john donson "ask girlfriend to put you a totally free usufruct... problem solved... 70 baht"

 

Where could that be done? At the Land Department? 

[TigerCat]

john donson "ask girlfriend to put you a totally free usufruct... problem solved... 70 baht"

 

Can this be done between ourselves with a template found online? Or would we have to use a lawyer or go to the Land Department?