Are hybrids still an option?

[Negita43]

Having followed the electric car debate on another thread (so many and so diverse opinions) I am cautious about asking the question but here goes.

My gf is being offered a Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) well specified at about 800K so two questions.

1. Anyone have knowledge of this car?

2. Are the days of hybrids numbered?

 

[JBChiangRai]

The issue for me with Nissan is that S&P changed their credit rating to Junk this month.

 

Nissan does not have a good track record with EV’s and the Kicks is an outlier in terms of technology.

 

I think I read that hybrid demand last year here was dropping but I can’t swear to that.

[flyingtlger]

I think hybrids are the way to go.

I've had a Tesla for over 5 years already.

I even have a home charger but if you go on a trip that's over 2 hours it's a hassle.

First you need to find a charging station which are far and few between and often times you'll need to wait 15-20 just to start charging and then you'll need to charge your car for at least 15-30 minutes.

 

My next car will be definitely be a hybrid.

I'd stay away from Nissan from what I've researched. 

Their hybrids are not very unsophisticated.

I think Toyota's make some of the best hybrids....

 

[FarangRimPing]

22 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

The issue for me with Nissan is that S&P changed their credit rating to Junk this month.

 

Nissan does not have a good track record with EV’s and the Kicks is an outlier in terms of technology.

 

I think I read that hybrid demand last year here was dropping but I can’t swear to that.

It's the opposite, at least in the US. This is what Google's AI wrote:

"

while sales of electric vehicles (BEVs) have declined, hybrid sales have increased in the US. In 2023, BEV sales reached 1,119,251, up from 760,329 in 2022, but hybrid sales have increased 65% to more than 1.2 million, lifting their market share to 8% from 5.5%."

 

[mudcat]

Toyota is continuing to expand and refine its Hybrid options, no longer is it Prius only, but over their full range.

The Yaris Cross are available in three flavors around your price point.

 

https://www.zigwheels.co.th/en/new-cars/toyota/yaris-cross/specifications#sec-variants

[FarangRimPing]

I have a plug-in Hybrid here in Thailand, and in my opinion, definitely the way to go.

 

I get about 50kms on battery which covers all my needs except when I go on a long road trip. It's easy to find gasoline on my journey and fill-ups are very fast.

 

This is perfect, for me at least.

[tomazbodner]

I was reading on Kicks how it works, and that's not really a hybrid. Works like a diesel electric train.

 

There's an ICE engine inside which generates electricity, and that electricity powers an electric engine which moves the car.

 

A "proper" hybrid uses battery power for acceleration or where less power is needed, charges the battery during braking, etc., and uses ICE engine when more power is needed, so it's switching between the 2 engines as you drive. Plug in hybrid just has a larger battery that can go electric for 50km or so before kicking in ICE engine, and can be charged from the wall socket.

 

With this, I think hybrids are still very relevant due to charging stations not yet being as convenient as filling up gas in a minute, yet having significantly lower fuel consumption and by that also lower emissions. The catch is that you should not be buying a hybrid approaching 10 years of age as there are several parts (including battery and charging components) that are very expensive to replace. Buying new though, why not. But then the same advice could go for a used electric car - battery costs nearly as much as new car.

[malathione]

11 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

I was reading on Kicks how it works, and that's not really a hybrid. Works like a diesel electric train.

 

There's an ICE engine inside which generates electricity, and that electricity powers an electric engine which moves the car.

 

A "proper" hybrid uses battery power for acceleration or where less power is needed, charges the battery during braking, etc., and uses ICE engine when more power is needed, so it's switching between the 2 engines as you drive. Plug in hybrid just has a larger battery that can go electric for 50km or so before kicking in ICE engine, and can be charged from the wall socket.

 

With this, I think hybrids are still very relevant due to charging stations not yet being as convenient as filling up gas in a minute, yet having significantly lower fuel consumption and by that also lower emissions. The catch is that you should not be buying a hybrid approaching 10 years of age as there are several parts (including battery and charging components) that are very expensive to replace. Buying new though, why not. But then the same advice could go for a used electric car - battery costs nearly as much as new car.

It actually is a "proper" hybrid. There are two types of hybrids, parallel and series. What you describe as "proper" is a parallel.

Edited March 28 by malathione
correction

[brianthainess]

1 hour ago, Negita43 said:

Having followed the electric car debate on another thread (so many and so diverse opinions) I am cautious about asking the question but here goes.

My gf is being offered a Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) well specified at about 800K so two questions.

1. Anyone have knowledge of this car?

2. Are the days of hybrids numbered?

 

I test drove one and hated it, no real leavers for drive controls just buttons, having to glance down to select, sensors making the brakes/steering wheel shudder when a car ahead, came from a U turn correctly performed, Side Sensors beeping just reversing out of a normal gap, not being able to just hold the indicator switch for a quick one flash, could only switch either on or off. 

I believe there are better ones on the market though. I would preferer a hybrid over a full EV.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

The issue for me with Nissan is that S&P changed their credit rating to Junk this month.

Was inevitable after they sacked Carlos.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Was inevitable after they sacked Carlos.

I agree 100%

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, FarangRimPing said:

It's the opposite, at least in the US. This is what Google's AI wrote:

"

while sales of electric vehicles (BEVs) have declined, hybrid sales have increased in the US. In 2023, BEV sales reached 1,119,251, up from 760,329 in 2022, but hybrid sales have increased 65% to more than 1.2 million, lifting their market share to 8% from 5.5%."

 

I found one of the articles, in the UK HEV sales are down but PHEV sales are up.

 

I think the trend is towards BEV and PHEV.  BEV sales are rebounding in the UK too. The trend with PHEV is towards longer battery range too.

 

https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/news/bevs-bounce-back-uk-new-car-market-starts-2024-positively/

[Fruit Trader]

2 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

I was reading on Kicks how it works, and that's not really a hybrid. Works like a diesel electric train.

 

It's an interesting topic. There has been much discussion about the efficiency of series hybrid (train locomotive style) compared to a parallel system where combustion engine and electric motor are mechanically connected to the final drive.

 

The Edison Motors story and their diesel electric truck is a good example of where efficiency arguments have been started.

There is a lot of misunderstanding and twisted facts surrounding the Nissan E-Power system. I guess most of this comes from the army of online motoring journalists.

A tear-down video is the best way to understand how this system works and why there are many questions raised about its efficiency and energy losses through the various power stages. 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I found one of the articles, in the UK HEV sales are down but PHEV sales are up.

 

I think the trend is towards BEV and PHEV.  BEV sales are rebounding in the UK too. The trend with PHEV is towards longer battery range too.

 

https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/news/bevs-bounce-back-uk-new-car-market-starts-2024-positively/

January 2024 is the first month since August 2022 that HEVs failed to record a growth in registrations. A 1.2% drop in the first month of the year left the technology with a 13.1% share of January’s total, down from 14.4% in the same period in 2023.

Famous quote from yourself

One swallow does not assign make, I’ve told you this before, pay attention

 

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, vinny41 said:

January 2024 is the first month since August 2022 that HEVs failed to record a growth in registrations. A 1.2% drop in the first month of the year left the technology with a 13.1% share of January’s total, down from 14.4% in the same period in 2023.

Famous quote from yourself

One swallow does not assign make, I’ve told you this before, pay attention

 

touché

[Kinnock]

5 hours ago, FarangRimPing said:

I have a plug-in Hybrid here in Thailand, and in my opinion, definitely the way to go.

 

I get about 50kms on battery which covers all my needs except when I go on a long road trip. It's easy to find gasoline on my journey and fill-ups are very fast.

 

This is perfect, for me at least.

Yes, a plug in hybrid sounds like the ideal option considering current state of charging stations.  But I think there's very few options on the market?  If you don't want to pay import duty, isn't the Mitsubishi Outlander the only option?

[Kinnock]

I've taken a Kicks for a drive, and was impressed.  Lively performance, especially from a standstill, quiet, comfortable, spacious interior. 

 

Interior quality is much improved on the latest model too.

 

I also like that it does not have a rubber band CVT transmission, which is a weak point if you do high mileage.

 

The very similar Yaris Cross has all the complexity of an ICE and a hybrid, but I guess this is only an issue if you plan to keep it a long time.

 

Depreciation will be lower with the Toyota though.

 

Ideal for me would be a plug in hybrid with a decent battery range that's made in Thailand, so I didn't buy a Kicks as it can't run on battery alone.

[Gweiloman]

8 hours ago, flyingtlger said:

I think hybrids are the way to go.

I've had a Tesla for over 5 years already.

I even have a home charger but if you go on a trip that's over 2 hours it's a hassle.

First you need to find a charging station which are far and few between and often times you'll need to wait 15-20 just to start charging and then you'll need to charge your car for at least 15-30 minutes.

.

 

Which country was this? Definitely not Thailand as most EV owners here know.

[JBChiangRai]

13 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Which country was this? Definitely not Thailand as most EV owners here know.

I think posters who claim to have or had an EV and diss them are telling porky pies.

[FarangRimPing]

18 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Yes, a plug in hybrid sounds like the ideal option considering current state of charging stations.  But I think there's very few options on the market?  If you don't want to pay import duty, isn't the Mitsubishi Outlander the only option?

I think there are quite a few but I haven't researched it.

 

Mine is a Mercedes Benz SUV.

[vinny41]

18 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Yes, a plug in hybrid sounds like the ideal option considering current state of charging stations.  But I think there's very few options on the market?  If you don't want to pay import duty, isn't the Mitsubishi Outlander the only option?

BYD SEAL U DM-i  available 1st April 2024 

https://www.thairath.co.th/news/auto/news/2774190

Haval H6 PHEV

Discount 300,000 ! Official price thailand/ (Plug-in Hybrid) : 1,399,000 baht | Pure electric run 201 km.

https://autolifethailand.tv/discount-official-price-haval-h6-phev-thailand/

The above are PHEV someone on this forum currently owns the Haval H6 Phev 

[retarius]

23 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I agree 100%

Carlos was a fraudster......escaping from Japan in a suitcase.....for goodness' sake 

[cowellandrew]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:06 AM, flyingtlger said:

I think hybrids are the way to go.

I've had a Tesla for over 5 years already.

I even have a home charger but if you go on a trip that's over 2 hours it's a hassle.

First you need to find a charging station which are far and few between and often times you'll need to wait 15-20 just to start charging and then you'll need to charge your car for at least 15-30 minutes.

 

My next car will be definitely be a hybrid.

I'd stay away from Nissan from what I've researched. 

Their hybrids are not very unsophisticated.

I think Toyota's make some of the best hybrids....

 

Sounds great experience!

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, retarius said:

Carlos was a fraudster......escaping from Japan in a suitcase.....for goodness' sake 

Carlos is alleged to be a fraudster.

 

Undoubtedly he is a talented businessman.

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, FarangRimPing said:

I think there are quite a few but I haven't researched it.

 

Mine is a Mercedes Benz SUV.

Mercedes C, E and S Class

BMW 3, 5 & 7 series

Lexus

Mitsubishi Outlander

probably a few more.

[transam]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think posters who claim to have or had an EV and diss them are telling porky pies.

I'm not so sure, imagine having a mental breakdown because you could not find a charging station, I think there must be many tales out there regarding issues we don't read here..🤭

 

But, back on topic, my friend has a 5 year old 'BRITISH' MG ZS petrol, he is going to sell it. I ask if he was going to buy another MG, he said no. Are you going to buy electric, no, not in Thailand, I don't want to be stranded.

Well, what are you going to buy....?

 

He said, not sure on brand yet, but it will be a hybrid, I said, wise move, .........

[renaissanc]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:43 AM, Negita43 said:

Having followed the electric car debate on another thread (so many and so diverse opinions) I am cautious about asking the question but here goes.

My gf is being offered a Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) well specified at about 800K so two questions.

1. Anyone have knowledge of this car?

2. Are the days of hybrids numbered?

 

 

On 3/28/2024 at 8:43 AM, Negita43 said:

Having followed the electric car debate on another thread (so many and so diverse opinions) I am cautious about asking the question but here goes.

My gf is being offered a Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) well specified at about 800K so two questions.

1. Anyone have knowledge of this car?

2. Are the days of hybrids numbered?

 

 

On 3/28/2024 at 8:43 AM, Negita43 said:

Having followed the electric car debate on another thread (so many and so diverse opinions) I am cautious about asking the question but here goes.

My gf is being offered a Nissan hybrid (Kick e-power) well specified at about 800K so two questions.

1. Anyone have knowledge of this car?

2. Are the days of hybrids numbered?

 

I asked Google question 2 just now and looked at the general disadvantages of hybrid cars. Based on what came up, I wouldn't want one. Out of interest: 1) Are you buying the car for your (presumably) Thai girlfriend ... while you're not married? If you are, have you recently moved to Thailand? 2) If you're going to get married, you could buy a 4-door pick-up truck for around that price, and that would be more useful for a family. 3) If you buy the Nissan with cash, make sure you get a copy of the ID cards of the employee(s) you deal with. If you've lived in Thailand for a long time, you'll know why.

[MrBanks]

I cannot help on the aspect of the question regarding Nissan, as I have no experience of them, in recent years, however, I have a plug in hybrid (different manufacturer).

I bought it new in 2016, I think it is wonderful, loads of power when required as both power sources can kick in together if you boot it.

Really economical and no hassle, charging wise, I just plug it in when I come home, don’t bother taking the charger with me when we go anywhere for a few days, it generates enough to keep working properly.

The only slight negative for me, is that in my car, there is a reduced boot (trunk for you Yanks) space, due to the hybrid batteries, but I know that is not the case from all manufacturers.

In summary, I would not hesitate to buy another, but again I point out, I know nothing about Nissan.

If your lady buys it, I hope it is a good car and that you both enjoy it.

Edited March 29 by MrBanks

[Negita43]

1 minute ago, renaissanc said:

1) Are you buying the car for your (presumably) Thai girlfriend ... while you're not married?

You are joking aren't you - she's paying

 

2 minutes ago, renaissanc said:

If you've lived in Thailand for a long time, you'll know why.

Yes I have and yes I do

And finally, not all Thai girlfriends are out to make a buck or a free car

[Negita43]

19 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Ideal for me would be a plug in hybrid with a decent battery range that's made in Thailand, so I didn't buy a Kicks as it can't run on battery alone.

Thanks for your answer - I am just confused as to why running on battery alone is important - and what did you buy in the end?