On Het Thop Mushrooms : Is there any reason why they are not banned?

[SamSanuk]

A comment I heard today, that our current CM smokey hell comes from local fire starters racing against the Songkran clock, in search of Het Thop mushrooms.

 

So maybe someone can answer for me, hypothetically, if the “powers that be” were to outlaw Het Thop mushrooms, making buying/selling a serious crime, would that have an appreciable effect on our air pollution?
 

Or is the Het Thop just a scapegoat for other failed policies?

 

 

[IvorBiggun2]

If the mushroom was banned do you think the Thais would pay attention to the ban? 

[stoner]

$$$$$$

[connda]

45 minutes ago, SamSanuk said:

A comment I heard today, that our current CM smokey hell comes from local fire starters racing against the Songkran clock, in search of Het Thop mushrooms.

 

So maybe someone can answer for me, hypothetically, if the “powers that be” were to outlaw Het Thop mushrooms, making buying/selling a serious crime, would that have an appreciable effect on our air pollution?
 

Or is the Het Thop just a scapegoat for other failed policies?

 

 

No.  First the ban would not be enforced any more than the anti-arson is enforced.  There is wayyyy too much money to be made in the mushroom trade.

[IvorBiggun2]

 

[theblether]

No chance.

 

You can't control the growth of wild mushrooms. 

The Mountain People, esp the poorest, rely upon the money. They literally will not give up the crop as the financial impact would be too severe. 

The last time there was a shortage the price went mental. 

Introducing it as black market item will cause carnage and, if anything, encourage more burning. 

You'd end up with the police organizing distribution and creaming profit. 

 

The only way to destroy the Hot Thep market is to produce it on greenhouse/farmed environments. I know one mushroom grower who has tried to do so for years ( the first person to do will be a Thai baht billionaire ) and it's driving him nuts. 

[SamSanuk]

5 minutes ago, theblether said:

No chance.

 

You can't control the growth of wild mushrooms. 

The Mountain People, esp the poorest, rely upon the money. They literally will not give up the crop as the financial impact would be too severe. 

The last time there was a shortage the price went mental. 

Introducing it as black market item will cause carnage and, if anything, encourage more burning. 

You'd end up with the police organizing distribution and creaming profit. 

 

The only way to destroy the Hot Thep market is to produce it on greenhouse/farmed environments. I know one mushroom grower who has tried to do so for years ( the first person to do will be a Thai baht billionaire ) and it's driving him nuts. 

Thank you, some edification here. 
 

Do you think if there was a way, i.e. greenhouse, that the smoke problem would be noticeably less disastrous? 
 

Or are the mushrooms just a small piece to the smoke puzzle?

[SamSanuk]

21 minutes ago, connda said:

No.  First the ban would not be enforced any more than the anti-arson is enforced.  There is wayyyy too much money to be made in the mushroom trade.

Curious if anyone knows how much money the mushroom trade brings in. Millions of baht?

[theblether]

32 minutes ago, SamSanuk said:

Thank you, some edification here. 
 

Do you think if there was a way, i.e. greenhouse, that the smoke problem would be noticeably less disastrous? 
 

Or are the mushrooms just a small piece to the smoke puzzle?

 

I'll not get into the usual sugarcane/commercial burning arguments - they have been done to death. 

 

Burning is essential for safety reasons in the mountains. One thing people miss/don't know, don't understand is that municipalities end out teams to burn road verges etc. In the mountains, bad enough on main routes such as CM-Pai, the roads in the interior are tight, dangerous and often dreadful condition. One friend was killed as she was washed over a cliff edge in her SUV. With rapid foliage growth, many of these roads are reduced to effective single lane status. If the fire load is allowed to build the villagers would be cut off in the case of a wildfire or similar. 

 

Helicopters, which I see overhead many days during the burning season, would struggle to rescue people due to the terrain. So routine defensive burning is essential and is practised by the villagers and authorities. 

 

Well before the attack on Hot Thep, authorities need to get a grip on open field stubble burning, whatever the crop. They are the open goal awaiting action. The mountains can wait.  

[theblether]

Just now, theblether said:

 

I'll not get into the usual sugarcane/commercial burning arguments - they have been done to death. 

 

Burning is essential for safety reasons in the mountains. One thing people miss/don't know, don't understand is that municipalities end out teams to burn road verges etc. In the mountains, bad enough on main routes such as CM-Pai, the roads in the interior are tight, dangerous and often dreadful condition. One friend was killed as she was washed over a cliff edge in her SUV. With rapid foliage growth, many of these roads are reduced to effective single lane status. If the fire load is allowed to build the villagers would be cut off in the case of a wildfire or similar. 

 

Helicopters, which I see overhead many days during the burning season, would struggle to rescue people due to the terrain. So routine defensive burning is essential and is practised by the villagers and authorities. 

 

Well before the attack on Hot Thep, authorities need to get a grip on open field stubble burning, whatever the crop. They are the open goal awaiting action. The mountains can wait.  

 

I forgot to mention, I know oil & gas engineers who are looking for solutions on a hobby basis. There are serious people of many nationalities keen to see an end to the burning, or at least to reduce the worst of vagaries. 

[theblether]

44 minutes ago, SamSanuk said:

Curious if anyone knows how much money the mushroom trade brings in. Millions of baht?

 

The only figure I am aware of is the average Mountain Family would gather 15-25,000 baht worth of Hot Thep each season. To put that in perspective, most of the families involved have a cash income of less than 36,000 baht per year otherwise. So you're looking at an income boost of around 50% of their cash income. That money has multifarious social impacts, arriving around Songkran is always welcome, but some families borrow on the strength of their Hot Thep crop. The idea of surrendering that cash is unimaginable. 

[CM Dad]

On 4/6/2024 at 6:13 PM, SamSanuk said:

A comment I heard today, that our current CM smokey hell comes from local fire starters racing against the Songkran clock, in search of Het Thop mushrooms.

 

So maybe someone can answer for me, hypothetically, if the “powers that be” were to outlaw Het Thop mushrooms, making buying/selling a serious crime, would that have an appreciable effect on our air pollution?
 

Or is the Het Thop just a scapegoat for other failed policies?

 

 

The mushrooms are a small part of the problem, but are blamed by the government so as to not offend a certain large corporation that supports contract farming - growing corn - for their business.

[ChaiyaTH]

China banned it years ago to help with the burning, but no other country in SE Asia itself did so...

[ChaiyaTH]

4 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

The mushrooms are a small part of the problem, but are blamed by the government so as to not offend a certain large corporation that supports contract farming - growing corn - for their business.

It's not a small problem at all, any decrease from 15-25% would be helpful already and a good start. To think like you, is like the government does, result: inaction.

[Classic Ray]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:02 PM, theblether said:

 

I'll not get into the usual sugarcane/commercial burning arguments - they have been done to death. 

 

Burning is essential for safety reasons in the mountains. One thing people miss/don't know, don't understand is that municipalities end out teams to burn road verges etc. In the mountains, bad enough on main routes such as CM-Pai, the roads in the interior are tight, dangerous and often dreadful condition. One friend was killed as she was washed over a cliff edge in her SUV. With rapid foliage growth, many of these roads are reduced to effective single lane status. If the fire load is allowed to build the villagers would be cut off in the case of a wildfire or similar. 

 

Helicopters, which I see overhead many days during the burning season, would struggle to rescue people due to the terrain. So routine defensive burning is essential and is practised by the villagers and authorities. 

 

Well before the attack on Hot Thep, authorities need to get a grip on open field stubble burning, whatever the crop. They are the open goal awaiting action. The mountains can wait.  

Most Western countries use a tractor with a cutter  attachment to control verges.

 

Surely the road authorities could use the same method if they truly wanted to deal with the problem?

 

Burning is cheaper short term but not long term.

[stoner]

imagine if the government put the same money into stopping this as they did towards buying stupid unnecessary military hardware. 

 

ya tell me again that officials give a flying f about this issue. 

[bwanajohn]

Banning het top what make the  price go up...It would then be an illegal product like ya ba..

Imagine  who would become involved...then...

[The Theory]

I moved out of CM more than a year ago when I realized that what will happen when Chinese back to CM.  No hope for CM, getting worse year after year since decade ago. 

[Rotweiler]

We are most pleased.  That you are gone.

[theblether]

10 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Most Western countries use a tractor with a cutter  attachment to control verges.

 

Surely the road authorities could use the same method if they truly wanted to deal with the problem?

 

Burning is cheaper short term but not long term.

 

First, they don't have the money. Second, it's not just verges, they burn around 20 metres back to stop the fireload from piling up year on year. 

 

I don't think members of this forum really understand the staggering heat generated by a well-fueled wildfire. A walk through the debris shows the wildlife caught out by the rapid spread. 

 

If forum members saw these fires in action they would support defensive burning. Due to terrain there is no realistic alternative. 

 

Since realising this I have supported the idea of a one week burning blitz and get it over and done with. However, I maintain there is no excuse for open field burning. Treat the mountains and the fields as seperate entities. 

[piewarmer]

Thank you for this mushroom/burning discussion, I understand a lot more, I'm not so much against the burning now as it's an important hilltribe income source