How to satisfy income letter requirement for Non-O, using Embassy in Vientiane

[ThunderRd]

I live in Laos and am considering a change to Thailand.  I've looked at the requirements for a Non-O, 90-day visa at the Embassy in Vientiane, near where I live.

 

From the Embassy website, under Non-O requirements:

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Retirement

At least 50 years old

A letter from a Thai bank certifying that the applicant holds a bank account with a fund of at least 800,000 baht; or a letter issued or certified by an Embassy/Consulate that the applicant has a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht
(or equivalent in other currency)

 

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I have an regular overseas income well in excess of the required 65,000THB.  I can show this income for the past year.  I have contacted the US Embassy in Vientiane and they have informed me that:

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The U.S. Embassy cannot confirm your income, but can complete an affidavit on your behalf.  We have a blank affidavit form that you can complete at the Embassy

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I was already aware that they could not confirm the income.  They will, however, notarize a sworn statement that I make in the presence of the Embassy official regarding my income.

 

Would this affidavit, along with my bank records showing a monthly deposit into my Thai bank account at SCB, be enough for a 90-day Non-O, or am I wasting my time?

[DrJack54]

US citizen your embassy does not provide "income letter " 

You require funds in bank

[lopburi3]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:24 PM, ThunderRd said:

I live in Laos and am considering a change to Thailand.  I've looked at the requirements for a Non-O, 90-day visa at the Embassy in Vientiane, near where I live.

 

From the Embassy website, under Non-O requirements:

 

I have an regular overseas income well in excess of the required 65,000THB.  I can show this income for the past year.  I have contacted the US Embassy in Vientiane and they have informed me that:

 

I was already aware that they could not confirm the income.  They will, however, notarize a sworn statement that I make in the presence of the Embassy official regarding my income.

 

Would this affidavit, along with my bank records showing a monthly deposit into my Thai bank account at SCB, be enough for a 90-day Non-O, or am I wasting my time?

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I seriously doubt that signature would be accepted as it was the previous system and is no longer accepted by Immigration.  The current income proof is 12 months of 65k or above each month to a Thai bank account in your name only.  If you can use the 800k method you could convert tourist visa or visa exempt entry to one 90 day non O and extend for one year.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:56 PM, lopburi3 said:

  The current income proof is 12 months of 65k or above each month to a Thai bank account in your name only. 

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Thanks for your response. 

So if I understand you correctly, they left this option out of their requirements on the Embassy webpage, which states clearly that:

  Quote

A letter from a Thai bank certifying that the applicant holds a bank account with a fund of at least 800,000 baht; or a letter issued or certified by an Embassy/Consulate that the applicant has a monthly income of at least 65,000 baht

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Are you saying that I can simply show a copy of my bank records indicating a monthly deposit, and that is sufficient without a certifying letter from my embassy?  I can easily show the monthly deposit for the past year.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:48 PM, DrJack54 said:

US citizen your embassy does not provide "income letter " 

You require funds in bank

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Are you saying that US cits cannot avail themselves of the monthly income method?

[lopburi3]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:24 PM, ThunderRd said:

Thanks for your response. 

So if I understand you correctly, they left this option out of their requirements on the Embassy webpage, which states clearly that:

Are you saying that I can simply show a copy of my bank records indicating a monthly deposit, and that is sufficient without a certifying letter from my embassy?

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If from USA that is the method used - 65k per month documented to come from overseas for income method.  As for Embassy/Consulate they are not immigration so could accept something else for visa issue - but suspect this is just an oversight as the 65k per month is only required for about 3 countries - all others immigration will accept Embassy letter of income.  If you can not meet the income requirement the 800k in bank account only needs 2 or 3 months before one year extension can be provided.  The requirement for extensions is show of bank passbook plus one year of bank statements - suspect Embassy would be the same - if they accept.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:31 PM, lopburi3 said:

If from USA that is the method used - 65k per month documented to come from overseas for income method.  As for Embassy/Consulate they are not immigration so could accept something else for visa issue - but suspect this is just an oversight as the 65k per month is only required for about 3 countries - all others immigration will accept Embassy letter of income.  If you can not meet the income requirement the 800k in bank account only needs 2 or 3 months before one year extension can be provided.

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Thank you. 

 

The funds are deposited on the same day each month from a Taiwanese company, so are shown on my bank statement as 'X1/FRCI', which is the code for a foreign bank origin.  I can easily show this deposit for the last year by producing copies of my monthly statement from SCB.

 

I suppose it's worth a try, I guess the only risk is the application fee and my time invested if they refuse to issue a visa.  I was hoping for someone to chime in and say they'd done it successfully this way 😀

 

By the way, I've no intention whatsoever to tie up 800K in a Thai bank account.  If I can't do this via monthly income proof, it's a deal-breaker.

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:24 PM, ThunderRd said:

Are you saying that I can simply show a copy of my bank records indicating a monthly deposit, and that is sufficient without a certifying letter from my embassy?  I can easily show the monthly deposit for the past year.

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I think you'd have to inform the Thai Embassy that you are a US citizen and your Embassy no longer issues the Income letter, but you can provide 12 Thai bank statements detailing over 65K THB monthly transfers and see if that would be acceptable.

 

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:25 PM, ThunderRd said:

Are you saying that US cits cannot avail themselves of the monthly income method?

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For the 1 year extension of stay permits from Thai Immigration, they will accept evidence of overseas monthly transfers 12 x 65K THB.
The transfers must be coded as 'International' transfers, and they may request proof of the source of income.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:46 PM, Liquorice said:

I think you'd have to inform the Thai Embassy that you are a US citizen and your Embassy no longer issues the Income letter, but you can provide 12 Thai bank statements detailing over 65K THB monthly transfers and see if that would be acceptable.

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Thanks for this, maybe I'll try emailing the Thai Embassy and asking them directly if this is an acceptable route. I have my doubts that I'll get a response from them but it's certainly worth a try before making an appointment and finding out they don't actually accept this.  I know that Embassy officials can be quite uneven in their requirements.

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:42 PM, ThunderRd said:

The funds are deposited on the same day each month from a Taiwanese company, so are shown on my bank statement as 'X1/FRCI', which is the code for a foreign bank origin.  I can easily show this deposit for the last year by producing copies of my monthly statement from SCB.

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That presents two problems in relation to applying for a 1-year extension of stay at Thai Immigration.

1. 'X1/FRCI' wouldn't mean diddly squat to Immigration, you may need to request 'Credit Advice' receipts from SCB as evidence the income came from overseas.

2. For extensions based on retirement, Thai Immigration only accept income from pensions, investments, or dividends .......................... not from employment.

[lopburi3]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:42 PM, ThunderRd said:

By the way, I've no intention whatsoever to tie up 800K in a Thai bank account.  If I can't do this via monthly income proof, it's a deal-breaker.

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You might want to check your tax payment requirements in Thailand if using "income" to support your stay. Thailand has said they will be making tax claims on such money starting in 2024.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Liquorice said:

For extensions based on retirement, Thai Immigration only accept income from pensions, investments, or dividends .......................... not from employment.

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Ok, well that shoots that idea then 😀  I'm not quite old enough to show pension payments yet.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 2:01 PM, lopburi3 said:

You might want to check your tax payment requirements in Thailand if using "income" to support your stay. Thailand has said they will be making tax claims on such money starting in 2024.

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I'm aware of this; I know everyone is waiting for clarity.  I've got a tax ID in Thailand because I worked in Thailand for 15 years prior to living in Laos.

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 2:42 PM, ThunderRd said:

Ok, well that shoots that idea then 😀  I'm not quite old enough to show pension payments yet.

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I'm afraid 800K THB deposited in a Thai bank account is the only way forward for a 1 year extension based on retirement.

The 800K must be deposited for 2 months prior to the date of submission and for 3 months after the extension is granted.
You can then withdraw up to 400K, then topping back up to 800K again 2 months prior to submitting the following year's application.

 

If you don't want to go down that route, then a further option, assuming you can obtain the Non Imm O from Vientiane, is to employ an 'agent' to obtain the 1 year extension on your behalf for circa 25K THB.

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 3:04 PM, Liquorice said:

If you don't want to go down that route, then a further option, assuming you can obtain the Non Imm O from Vientiane, is to employ an 'agent' to obtain the 1 year extension on your behalf for circa 25K THB.

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I've got two kids, [Lao nationals] 18 and 20.  The 18 year old is in his last year of high school and my older one is in college in Thailand.

 

Is there a way to get a visa by proving parental support of foreign nationals on student visas?

[gamb00ler]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:56 PM, lopburi3 said:

I seriously doubt that signature would be accepted as it was the previous system and is no longer accepted by Immigration.

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A minor correction....

It isn't that Thai Immigration won't accept letters showing income from Embassies.  That's the proof Immigration accepted when I did my last extension in Feb.  The actual problem is that Embassies from several countries no longer wanted to provide the letters that Immigration would accept.

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 4/6/2024 at 1:58 PM, Liquorice said:

2. For extensions based on retirement, Thai Immigration only accept income from pensions, investments, or dividends .......................... not from employment.

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That statement is demonstrably wrong. Some immigration offices will require the proof you suggest. Other offices do not, in general the number of offices that just require proof of income transfers from overseas is greater than the few offices that require it be pension income not from employment.

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 4/6/2024 at 2:42 PM, ThunderRd said:

Ok, well that shoots that idea then 😀  I'm not quite old enough to show pension payments yet.

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Ignore his statement as there is a better than even chance that he is wrong.

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:04 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

That statement is demonstrably wrong. Some immigration offices will require the proof you suggest. Other offices do not, in general the number of offices that just require proof of income transfers from overseas is greater than the few offices that require it be pension income not from employment.

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Can you guarantee that for the OP?

I'm stating facts from Immigration orders, not hypothetical assertions.
Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

2.22 Retirement.

1) Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statement showing money transfer from overseas every month for the past 12 months.

[CartagenaWarlock]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:24 PM, ThunderRd said:

They will, however, notarize a sworn statement that I make in the presence of the Embassy official regarding my income.

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Sworn statements by themselves mean nothing because the first amendment protects us from lying. Somebody must be injured because of your sworn statements. And who is injured when I lie and get sworn false income statements? Except the Thai government, no one is injured. Yes, the Thai government can sue me in a US court. Good luck with that.

[CartagenaWarlock]

  On 4/6/2024 at 12:24 PM, ThunderRd said:

Would this affidavit, along with my bank records showing a monthly deposit into my Thai bank account at SCB, be enough for a 90-day Non-O, or am I wasting my time?

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I don't think you need a letter. Just a regular monthly deposit into a Thai account will suffice. 

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:06 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Ignore his statement as there is a better than even chance that he is wrong.

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You're very good at criticising those trying to give advice, yet you offer no alternative advice yourself.

[CartagenaWarlock]

People will work hard to find all the loopholes to avoid putting the money in the bank, but there is a better solution and it's called agents. They will do the work for you for a fee. 

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:39 PM, CartagenaWarlock said:

Sworn statements by themselves mean nothing because the first amendment protects us from lying. Somebody must be injured because of your sworn statements. And who is injured when I lie and get sworn false income statements? Except the Thai government, no one is injured. Yes, the Thai government can sue me in a US court. Good luck with that.

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US amendments are only applicable if in the US, not in foreign Countries.

[Liquorice]

  On 4/6/2024 at 3:07 PM, ThunderRd said:

Is there a way to get a visa by proving parental support of foreign nationals on student visas?

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Visa (Non O), or 1 year extension of stay permit?

 

For 1 year extensions, read clause 2.11 of Immigration order 327/2557 for the criteria and financial requirements to apply as the parent of a child permitted a stay to study in Thailand.

327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdfFetching info...  

 

[DrJack54]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:04 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

That statement is demonstrably wrong. Some immigration offices will require the proof you suggest. Other offices do not, in general the number of offices that just require proof of income transfers from overseas is greater than the few offices that require it be pension income not from employment.

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Let's start with CW. Do know what that office requires to satisfy income method. 

[ThunderRd]

  On 4/6/2024 at 5:16 PM, Liquorice said:

Visa (Non O), or 1 year extension of stay permit?

 

For 1 year extensions, read clause 2.11 of Immigration order 327/2557 for the criteria and financial requirements to apply as the parent of a child permitted a stay to study in Thailand.

327-2557 (2014) - Criteria for extension ENG.pdf 504.7 kB · 0 downloads  

 

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Thank you for this

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:37 PM, Liquorice said:

Can you guarantee that for the OP?

I'm stating facts from Immigration orders, not hypothetical assertions.
Amend 138-2557 (2018 ) clause 2.18-2.22 for Thai bank income ENG.pdf 

2.22 Retirement.

1) Evidence showing pension - a letter of certification on deposit in the bank in Thailand and bank statement showing money transfer from overseas every month for the past 12 months.

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You should know by now that individual immigration offices will follow or do not follow the exact letter of the immigration rules. I am not referring to any under the table payment but the policy of the office in general.

 

I know of several offices that are in the do not follow camp, I also know that there are a few in the will follow camp

 

I do not make any guarantees with immigration, I am not stupid, but is seems that you are making a guarantee that I know is not supported by actual immigration office practices

  On 4/7/2024 at 12:41 AM, DrJack54 said:

Let's start with CW. Do know what that office requires to satisfy income method. 

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No and I have never suggested that I do. I rely on reports.

Let’s continue with Udon immigration office. Do know what that office requires to satisfy income method?

[sometimewoodworker]

  On 4/6/2024 at 4:42 PM, Liquorice said:

You're very good at criticising those trying to give advice, yet you offer no alternative advice yourself.

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I do but you choose not to read it.

 

there's none so blind as those who will not see

[Liquorice]

  On 4/7/2024 at 7:02 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

I do not make any guarantees with immigration, I am not stupid, but is seems that you are making a guarantee that I know is not supported by actual immigration office practices

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I made no guarantees, I quoted Immigration orders.
If they don't follow the procedure as laid down, then it's for you to question it at a higher level, but very few do.

 

  On 4/7/2024 at 7:03 AM, sometimewoodworker said:

I do but you choose not to read it.

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Your advice being what exactly what to the OP in this thread?