Advice needed: Scammed by seedy Visa Agent

[scorecard]

19 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Who is AL ?  

 

 

Artificial indeed...   Not a lot of intelligence in handing over 200,000 baht to an agent up front... 

 

... that doesn't help the Op though... 

 

Could he file a police report as part of a scam - then show the agent and if she doesn't refund threaten to file charges ?...   

 

Ops objective is surely to get his PR... so it could push the agent into action. 

The real possibility that he'll get any money back is extremely thin IMO - the agent is probably broke !

 

 

 

A lesson here for others. The PR application is straight forward, but a lot of readily available docs are needed. Don't be intimidated by this.

 

I've heard of agents claiming that there's complex negotiation needed during the process and it must be done by a licensed lawyer. All total absolute bull<deleted> - it's quite straight forward - applicants either meet the requirements or not.

 

The most critical is proof of working 3 years continuously in Thailand with a work permit plus proof that the applicant has paid their Thai personal taxes for that period. Plus the applicant must be working with a thai work permit at the time of lodging the application for PR.

 

Must also be proof that the work the foreigner is doing is valuable in terms of the development of Thailand and proof that the knowledge / skills involved are being passed onto Thai employees.

 

There's more: proof that the applicant has no criminal record in Thailand or in their home country, proof of advanced education helps plus proof that the applicant has made contributions to the Thai Red Cross society or similar helps.

 

Also proof that the applicant does have long-term self supporting financial strength.

 

Also it helps for the applicant to go to the interview dressed smartly (long pants but no need for suit, collar and tie).

 

Also at the interview some of the conversation will be conducted in Thai language, no need to be afraid of this it's usually quite simple Thai.

 

No harm in wife (nicely dressed) going with farang husband to the interview but the conversation is usually 99% with the applicant. (I asked about this when I lodged my application for PR and got approved 27 years ago. The response: being married to a Thai lady is not a requirement and doesn't give the applicant any preference over single applicants. Further comment: 'The application for PR is about YOU (the foreigner) it's not about your marriage situation'. 

 

200,000Baht fee - outrageous - cannot be justified.

Edited May 10 by scorecard

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, oldscool said:

if you want anyone here to give you meaningful advice.

...he'd be wasting his time and it'd be wishful thinking!

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Why even waste time going to court in Thailand as usually the falang is always at fault, no matter what or how.

More urban myth b0llocks...unless you've got something relevant, credible and not anecdotal to back it up.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, Lopburikid said:

It all depends on what he was paying the agent for.........If it was for an under the table job because he didn't have the right paperwork/money. blacklist, overstay. it seems a lot 200,000 for a visa and nothing happens in 2 years. Is he on overstay????? Could be a number of reasons.

Or you could read his OP...

"...with the application for my Permanent Residency"

[scorecard]

47 minutes ago, scorecard said:

A lesson here for others. The PR application is straight forward, but a lot of readily available docs are needed. Don't be intimidated by this.

 

I've heard of agents claiming that there's complex negotiation needed during the process and it must be done by a licensed lawyer. All total absolute bull<deleted> - it's quite straight forward - applicants either meet the requirements or not.

 

The most critical is proof of working 3 years continuously in Thailand with a work permit plus proof that the applicant has paid their Thai personal taxes for that period. Plus the applicant must be working with a thai work permit at the time of lodging the application for PR.

 

Must also be proof that the work the foreigner is doing is valuable in terms of the development of Thailand and proof that the knowledge / skills involved are being passed onto Thai employees.

 

There's more: proof that the applicant has no criminal record in Thailand or in their home country, proof of advanced education helps plus proof that the applicant has made contributions to the Thai Red Cross society or similar helps.

 

Also proof that the applicant does have long-term self supporting financial strength.

 

Also it helps for the applicant to go to the interview dressed smartly (long pants but no need for suit, collar and tie).

 

Also at the interview some of the conversation will be conducted in Thai language, no need to be afraid of this it's usually quite simple Thai.

 

No harm in wife (nicely dressed) going with farang husband to the interview but the conversation is usually 99% with the applicant. (I asked about this when I lodged my application for PR and got approved 27 years ago. The response: being married to a Thai lady is not a requirement and doesn't give the applicant any preference over single applicants. Further comment: 'The application for PR is about YOU (the foreigner) it's not about your marriage situation'. 

 

200,000Baht fee - outrageous - cannot possibly be justified.

Reality is that the PR applicant needs to accumulate the needed application documents and the agent can do nothing more than check that all the documents have been added to the pile, translations (as needed and as indicated in the list of documents needed) is complete.

 

In reality there is no need for the agent to attend any meeting / interview etc., and as already mentioned there is no NEGOTIATION.

 

One more point, the specific list of documents needed to apply for PR is easily found on the appropriate website. The website address has been published here many times before. 

 

I can't quickly find the website address, can another member please share the website address. thanks.

Edited May 10 by scorecard

[oldscool]

54 minutes ago, scorecard said:

The PR application is straight forward, but a lot of readily available docs are needed

 

You're probably right in your assumption that the OP is applying for work-based PR, as that's the type of PR that's regularly discussed on this forum, and it is the most straightforward, but it's not the only type.

 

I'm sure your view that the fee is "outrageous" is shared by most people here, but it's not a legal argument. If the OP wants to take legal action, he needs to start by getting some information together. I gave him some hints in my earlier post.

 

It's also not clear from the OP whether the fee includes some part of the government processing fee, or if it's just the agent's fee.

Edited May 10 by oldscool

[Bangel72]

Cannot advise on the scammed part.

 

I did PR about 15 years ago, I used a friendly lawyer.

 

Quite a bit of paperwork gathering particularly tax returns and three or four visits to CW.

 

He invested a reasonable amount of time with me but mostly it was for the meetings and the fact the it was spread over a number of years then as they had stalled the acceptance part.

 

Not sure what going rate would be for paperwork coordination we had two prep sessions and say 3 meetings at CW - those could easily be half days but I likely well underpaid, maybe 20k plus a couple of small envelopes to speed things up as was the norm then, note I finalised it on my own as I had lost touch with lawyer 4 years later.

 

Coincidently the cost of the PR if you are not married was around 200k.

 

Note there are long periods that they cannot do anything at all, the application process which is really just submitting the application has a small window Nov/Dec each year I think then its a case of sit and wait till they get back to you. This may be a factor in the sense that its not progressing.

 

It may be the same now, when my application 7.5k I think was received I immediately received a visa, this was a PR pending visa that I needed to renew every 6 months for free, that bit was straight forward did not need lawyer. In my case it meant I had a 7.5k visa for around 4 years till they finally approved and gave me PR. They are much quicker now but it was an odd backdoor to a visa whilst your application is processed even if you end up being rejected

 

 

[Kinok Farang]

16 hours ago, scoutman360 said:

Just last week I was talking to a smart Thai lady friend. She asked me why I don't use an agent. I said, "If I am not smart enough to do it myself, then I should not be here."

Did you tell her about your modesty too?

[Ralf001]

3 hours ago, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Why even waste time going to court in Thailand as usually the falang is always at fault, no matter what or how.

 

Utter pish.

[phetpeter]

Any decent agency would never ask for all the money upfront, a deposit and progress reports paying as required or 50% down rest on competition. won't do that move on to another that will and if required show proof of past dealings.

[Yellowtail]

6 hours ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

I think paying an agent is usually a matter of convenience rather than intelligence. Example: Many people are smart enough to clean their own swimming pool, or mow the lawn, yet they choose to pay somebody else to do it. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly. That I'm smart enough to paint the house, does not mean I want to. 

 

It's no different than paying someone to do your taxes. 

[asiasurfer]

4 hours ago, NativeBob said:

Ratchada Rd. is the place I submitted my complain. they even helped me to do some paper works.

about 5-6 month I got money back with interest.

Thanks a lot. I will check this out ..

[asiasurfer]

4 hours ago, Lopburikid said:

It all depends on what he was paying the agent for.........If it was for an under the table job because he didn't have the right paperwork/money. blacklist, overstay. it seems a lot 200,000 for a visa and nothing happens in 2 years. Is he on overstay????? Could be a number of reasons.

I fulfill all requirements as far as I know. I was just so dumb to pay her 200k to do this job for me.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, asiasurfer said:

I fulfill all requirements as far as I know. I was just so dumb to pay her 200k to do this job for me.

Nothing wrong with paying a retainer, the 200K might have been a bit strong. 

 

Did you go to her office and confront her? 

[asiasurfer]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

...he'd be wasting his time and it'd be wishful thinking!

Not really. Heard some good advice here already.

[Dan O]

13 hours ago, watgate said:

Myself and my thai wife went to a visa agency in Chiang Mai to assist us in obtaining a spousal visa to go to the U.S. This was just before Covid-19 hit and everything was put on hold for a long time. After Thailand started to open up again, as well  as the rest of the world, we approached the visa agent to see what the progress was with our visa application. He basically was stringing us along and, unbeknown to us he closed up his visa agency. Thia was after he stopped answering his phone calls from us or returning our calls. We found out from sources he had stiffed other clients and we traveled to Chiang Mai to see the police there. We were informed by the Police that since this was a civil matter, a complaint needed to be filed with them within 3 months. It was fruitless to try and explain to them that we were in the midst of a pandemic and not very practical to file a complaint with them within 3 months even had we known about this requirement because everything during this time was shutdown including the U.S Embassy and Consulate office in Thailand. The bottom line was the Police said there was nothing they could do and tried to refer us to a lawyer. They were insistent that we contact this lawyer and they gave this atty our ph# who called us to try and get our business. He wanted a few thousand baht to get the ball rolling, and God only knows how much he would have hit us up for with no assurances of being able to get our money back. We decided to just drop our case  and didn't hire this atty and just chalked up our loss of money as an example of how it is easy to get fleeced in Thailand.

You should never try to use an agent to get a US visa as it is not possible regardless of what you may read or here, but you know that now. They best an agent can do is help fille out the paperwork and double check it to make sure you have all the correct document but all that is available on line for free but that is all. They can not submit or apply for a visa for you. 

[NativeBob]

1 hour ago, asiasurfer said:

Thanks a lot. I will check this out ..

do you need exact location incl MRT and coordinates?

 

There are many courts - you just ask directions and be nice )))

Google Earth  to:13.81195, 100.5743 (Court of Justice)

Edited May 10 by NativeBob

[scorecard]

4 hours ago, oldscool said:

 

You're probably right in your assumption that the OP is applying for work-based PR, as that's the type of PR that's regularly discussed on this forum, and it is the most straightforward, but it's not the only type.

 

I'm sure your view that the fee is "outrageous" is shared by most people here, but it's not a legal argument. If the OP wants to take legal action, he needs to start by getting some information together. I gave him some hints in my earlier post.

 

It's also not clear from the OP whether the fee includes some part of the government processing fee, or if it's just the agent's fee.

 

There's an initial fee to lodge the PR application 7,500Baht but please correct me if that's not up to date.

 

Unless it's recently changed there's no further fees until the application is approved and the successful applicant must now pay the actual real fee:

 

- About 50,000Baht for married foreigners, but please correct me if that's not up to date.

- About 195,000Baht for single foreigners, but please correct me if that's not up to date.

 

If the application is not successful there's no further fees.