Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

You would, with the actual Red diatribe you post daily........................🤣

I made an exception for you.

[transam]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I made an exception for you.

I don't have anyone on ignore, but you are a prime candidate if I did.....😂

 

I've never read so much "Red" ol' toffee in all my life, in fact it's embarrassing....🤣

[beautifulthailand99]

30 minutes ago, transam said:

I don't have anyone on ignore, but you are a prime candidate if I did.....😂

 

I've never read so much "Red" ol' toffee in all my life, in fact it's embarrassing....🤣

I imagine in another era you would cheering on General Petraus's  Surge - one final push,or Vietnam stop the commies in SE Asia. For the record I was against Iraq War 2  - turns out history proved me right.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I imagine in another era you would cheering on General Petraus's  Surge - one final push,or Vietnam stop the commies in SE Asia. For the record I was against Iraq War 2  - turns out history proved me right.

You would think you were right even if you were wrong, it's what your type does.....🤔

 

But you carry one supporting aggressors, it's what nutters do......

[rabas]

Time magazine June 4. interview with Biden:

 

1) Full transcript  [reference] 

2) Time fact check of Biden's comments [reference]

 

It's a long interview, the first 40% is on Ukraine.

 

Asked if NATO is on a slippery slope to war,

 

Biden:  "No, we're on a slippery slope for war if we don't do something about Ukraine."

 

Biden's comment on NATO and Ukraine:

 

Biden: Peace looks like making sure Russia never, never, never, never occupies Ukraine. That's what peace looks like. And it doesn't mean NATO, they are part of NATO.  It means we have a relationship with them like we do with other countries, where we supply weapons so they can defend themselves in the future. But it is not, if you notice, I was the one when—and you guys did report it at TIME—the one that I was saying that I am not prepared to support the NATOization of Ukraine. 

 

Edited June 5 by rabas

[RayC]

7 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Those of us who are not biased and prejudiced look elsewhere for information regarding the causes of this conflict and the real situation on the battlefield.

 

This amounts to saying no more than saying, "My information is better than yours" which, in absence of proof, is in itself a demonstration of bias and prejudice.

 

7 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Anything that shows even remotely that Russia might be justified or that Russia might be gaining the upper hand is immediately labelled as propaganda or being an apologist and even being labelled as a communist by some less educated.

 

Putin's raison d'être for the 'Special Military Operation' is to 1)  cleanse Ukraine of its' Nazis 2) demilitarise Ukraine.

 

Although Nazis are small in numbers, unfortunately they (probably) exist in every country. Should we therefore accept this as a justification for an invasion?

 

In a similar vein, whilst Russia might have reasons to be concerned about any increase in Ukraine's military capabilities, does this give her the right to invade and demilitarise her neighbour?

 

The correct answer to both questions is 'No'. It really is as simple as that irrespective of where you source your data.

[GroveHillWanderer]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. If he's attempting to reclaim all of Ukraine, he's not doing a very good job of it. If he just wants the eastern areas he already has, he's winning on that already. IMO it's simply a case of waiting for Zelensky to admit that sending more men to die is not going to change that and negotiating an end.

The issue wasn't whether he's doing a good job of it, it was whether we can know what his ambitions are. And we can, because he's made them clear on multiple occasions.

[beautifulthailand99]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Time magazine June 4. interview with Biden:

 

1) Full transcript  [reference] 

2) Time fact check of Biden's comments [reference]

 

It's a long interview, the first 40% is on Ukraine.

 

Asked if NATO is on a slippery slope to war,

 

Biden:  "No, we're on a slippery slope for war if we don't do something about Ukraine."

 

Biden's comment on NATO and Ukraine:

 

Biden: Peace looks like making sure Russia never, never, never, never occupies Ukraine. That's what peace looks like. And it doesn't mean NATO, they are part of NATO.  It means we have a relationship with them like we do with other countries, where we supply weapons so they can defend themselves in the future. But it is not, if you notice, I was the one when—and you guys did report it at TIME—the one that I was saying that I am not prepared to support the NATOization of Ukraine. 

 

 

I don't really buy into the "Biden is going senile" party but he managed to say so many words and say a whole lot of nothing. The first sentence;

 

And it doesn't mean NATO they are part NATO.....I was the one - and you guys did report it at TIME - the one that I was saying that I am not prepared to support NATOization of Ukraine

 

He doesn't really clarify if there is a true path for Ukraine to join NATO and in my opinion is concerning. As I understand from his position, he wants to take a hard-line approach against Russia. If he's going to do that, he needs to tell Russia that Ukraine will join NATO once they are defeated.

 

Peace looks like making sure Russia never, never, never, never occupies Ukraine. That's what peace looks like.

 

I interpret this as the goal in Ukraine is total victory. I wonder if he is waiting for any major policy changes until after the election because at the moment, Ukraine is in no place to recapture territory and struggling to maintain the frontline. As many experts have noted, pretty much direct NATO intervention is the only thing that will change the trajectory of the war. US boots on the ground possibly or NATO trooops?

 

In the original article, he responds to the interviewer saying the war is stalled

 

No, it's not. And by the way, I don't know why you skip over all that’s happened in the meantime. The Russian military has been decimated. You don’t write about that. It’s been freaking decimated. Number one

 

Proof right here what the whole purpose of this operation is, to degrade Russia's military. And the war is stalled, not sure why he is denying that; if it wasn't we would see massive gains. But I find the lack of regard of Ukrainian men on the front line as callous; we talk about degrading Russia's military but at what cost? How many men have died to obtain this decimation? Biden is a career politician and this interview read as such.

 

Then I lost the will to live and besides which he will lose the election. Oh and let's not forget his son Hunter made mega bucks from his involvement with Burisma in Ukraine - so when he talks about corruption - he knows.

Edited June 5 by beautifulthailand99

[beautifulthailand99]

17 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are correct. Russia should leave Ukrainian territory immediately.

And we should all follow Jesus, Halleijah and pass the ammunition.

[transam]

33 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

And we should all follow Jesus, Halleijah and pass the ammunition.

Oh, you're a religious nut too.....................😱

[jvs]

 

[rabas]

 DW: Chair of the Defense Committee of the German Bundestag Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann was asked "What happens if a Russian fighter jet is shot down by a Western weapon in Russian airspace?"
 
Answer: " Russia will have one less plane..."
 

Her full answer here (video). One smart woman, maybe she should be the next EU commissioner.

 

Edited June 5 by rabas

[jvs]

6 minutes ago, rabas said:

 DW: Chair of the Defense Committee of the German Bundestag Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann was asked "What happens if a Russian fighter jet is shot down by a Western weapon in Russian airspace?"
 
Answer: " Russia will have one less plane..."
 

Her full answer here (video). One smart woman, maybe she should be the next EU commissioner.

 

Yes , she was also saying putin does not want NATO members next to his borders.

So her answer is ,"and we do not want putins army on the Polish border"Therefore we are doing what we are doing.

Great!I hope with all of this mounting pressure on putin he will finally realize the West is not playing games and they are not falling for his charades.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

Of course if Europe goes up in flames for the 3rd time in a 100 years you ageing expats in Thailand, egging it on from afar will be sitting pretty. All the bluster but none of the brass and the blood.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Of course if Europe goes up in flames for the 3rd time in a 100 years you ageing expats in Thailand, egging it on from afar will be sitting pretty. All the bluster but none of the brass and the blood.

This is a discussion forum not the military academy. Do you think Putin listens to you?

[beautifulthailand99]

10 minutes ago, rabas said:

 DW: Chair of the Defense Committee of the German Bundestag Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann was asked "What happens if a Russian fighter jet is shot down by a Western weapon in Russian airspace?"
 
Answer: " Russia will have one less plane..."
 

Her full answer here (video). One smart woman, maybe she should be the next EU commissioner.

 

That lady definatley lost her grandpa to the "Reds"  in WW2 ! She then goes on to make a nonsensical statment about Russia on the borders of NATO.  But isn’t Russia already bordering the Baltics? And aren’t they also bordering Poland in Kaliningrad? They’re also bordering Finland which is in NATO!? So what is it about western Ukraine that will suddenly make Russian troops confront NATO borders in Poland? Is she realizing that she’s making zero sense?

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is a discussion forum not the military academy. Do you think Putin listens to you?

Oh I forgot your nephew pays tax or something. Why would he listen to me, I'm just some ageing western random wasting time on a niche asian expat forum whilst always threatening to leave.

[NativeBob]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Is she realizing that she’s making zero sense?

Nowadays they don't attend basic school exams.

that's why she sucks with geography (and the rest of subjects from secondary school)

last time Berbock said something like "Russia should turn 360 degrees"

Priceless!

[beautifulthailand99]

Just now, NativeBob said:

Nowadays they don't attend basic school exams.

that's why she sucks with geography (and the rest of subjects from secondary school)

last time Berbock said something like "Russia should turn 360 degrees"

Priceless!

She is basically calling for kicking the Baltics and Poland out of NATO and dont invite Ukraine in NATO. Otherwise Germany is in danger, which is her job to avoid. Its the logical conclusion of her nonsense statement. Who Rabas has anoited her as to the fount of all wisdom !

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Oh I forgot your nephew pays tax or something. Why would he listen to me, I'm just some ageing western random wasting time on a niche asian expat forum whilst always threatening to leave.

Oh I forgot your nephew pays tax or something.

 

No  wrong

[GroveHillWanderer]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

She is basically calling for kicking the Baltics and Poland out of NATO and dont invite Ukraine in NATO. Otherwise Germany is in danger, which is her job to avoid. Its the logical conclusion of her nonsense statement. Who Rabas has anoited her as to the fount of all wisdom !

She's not calling for that at all. Where on earth are you getting that from? 

 

Maybe that's what you would like for her to be calling for, but it's absolutely not what she's doing.

 

The only logical conclusion as far as I'm concerned, is that she's saying, we need to stop Putin where he is now, if we don't want to be drawn into conflict with him closer to home.

[NativeBob]

2 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

kicking the Baltics and Poland out of NATO

I think its a good idea - those dwarf states brings ZERO value to NATO except syphoning money for "maintenance". They are like rabid chihuahuas - small and very angry. 

BTW: Gdansk is not ____________________ (fill yourself)

[RayC]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

I don't really buy into the "Biden is going senile" party but he managed to say so many words and say a whole lot of nothing. The first sentence;

 

The senility part is open to debate.

 

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

And it doesn't mean NATO they are part NATO.....I was the one - and you guys did report it at TIME - the one that I was saying that I am not prepared to support NATOization of Ukraine

 

He doesn't really clarify if there is a true path for Ukraine to join NATO and in my opinion is concerning. As I understand from his position, he wants to take a hard-line approach against Russia. If he's going to do that, he needs to tell Russia that Ukraine will join NATO once they are defeated.

 

If one can conclude anything from that gibberish, surely it is the exact opposite? "I am NOT prepared to support NATOization of Ukraine"

 

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Peace looks like making sure Russia never, never, never, never occupies Ukraine. That's what peace looks like.

 

I interpret this as the goal in Ukraine is total victory. I wonder if he is waiting for any major policy changes until after the election because at the moment, Ukraine is in no place to recapture territory and struggling to maintain the frontline. As many experts have noted, pretty much direct NATO intervention is the only thing that will change the trajectory of the war. US boots on the ground possibly or NATO trooops?

 

Or maybe it simply means that Biden believes Russia should respect the internationally agreed borders of Ukraine and that peace is not possible until she does.

 

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

In the original article, he responds to the interviewer saying the war is stalled

 

No, it's not. And by the way, I don't know why you skip over all that’s happened in the meantime. The Russian military has been decimated. You don’t write about that. It’s been freaking decimated. Number one

 

Proof right here what the whole purpose of this operation is, to degrade Russia's military. And the war is stalled, not sure why he is denying that; if it wasn't we would see massive gains. But I find the lack of regard of Ukrainian men on the front line as callous; we talk about degrading Russia's military but at what cost? How many men have died to obtain this decimation? Biden is a career politician and this interview read as such.

 

How does this constitute proof that ".. the whole purpose of this operation is, to degrade Russia's military"? (The only operation is the special military one being waged by Putin 

 

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Then I lost the will to live and besides which he will lose the election. Oh and let's not forget his son Hunter made mega bucks from his involvement with Burisma in Ukraine - so when he talks about corruption - he knows.

 

Which has no relevance to this topic.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, NativeBob said:

I think its a good idea - those dwarf states brings ZERO value to NATO except syphoning money for "maintenance". They are like rabid chihuahuas - small and very angry. 

BTW: Gdansk is not ____________________ (fill yourself)

What a load..............🙄

[transam]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

The senility part is open to debate.

 

 

If one can conclude anything from that gibberish, surely it is the exact opposite? "I am NOT prepared to support NATOization of Ukraine"

 

 

Or maybe it simply means that Biden believes Russia should respect the internationally agreed borders of Ukraine and that peace is not possible until she does.

 

 

How does this constitute proof that ".. the whole purpose of this operation is, to degrade Russia's military"? (The only operation is the special military one being waged by Putin 

 

 

Which has no relevance to this topic.

Well said, Raymond.........

[NativeBob]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

What a load..............🙄

You noticed? How cute ......................💩

[beautifulthailand99]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

The senility part is open to debate.

 

 

If one can conclude anything from that gibberish, surely it is the exact opposite? "I am NOT prepared to support NATOization of Ukraine"

 

 

Or maybe it simply means that Biden believes Russia should respect the internationally agreed borders of Ukraine and that peace is not possible until she does.

 

 

How does this constitute proof that ".. the whole purpose of this operation is, to degrade Russia's military"? (The only operation is the special military one being waged by Putin 

 

 

Which has no relevance to this topic.

 

Well I stand by my interpretations given that his gibberish was largely that one can read almost anything into his deliberations. He says peace is when Russia leaves Urainian territory which isn't happening on the battlefield so it's escalation or bust. The Ukrainians get just enough not to lose but not enough to win. But they are losing , and we are out of ammo , kit and manpower. Looks like Putin has bought off the FT now.

 

Nato has just 5% of air defences needed to protect eastern flank
Lack of systems required in case of war lays bare vulnerabilities, according to alliance’s own assessments

https://archive.ph/kimKW

 

Russia sources ammunition faster than west, says Prague
Czech government warns that payment delays to international arms makers could deprive Kyiv of millions of shells

https://archive.ph/xgjqo

 

Why EU countries are nervous about funding a US loan to Ukraine

https://archive.ph/zNe28#selection-1589.0-1589.63

[RayC]

11 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Well I stand by my interpretations given that his gibberish was largely that one can read almost anything into his deliberations. He says peace is when Russia leaves Urainian territory which isn't happening on the battlefield so it's escalation or bust. The Ukrainians get just enough not to lose but not enough to win. But they are losing , and we are out of ammo , kit and manpower. Looks like Putin has bought off the FT now.

 

Nato has just 5% of air defences needed to protect eastern flank
Lack of systems required in case of war lays bare vulnerabilities, according to alliance’s own assessments

https://archive.ph/kimKW

 

Russia sources ammunition faster than west, says Prague
Czech government warns that payment delays to international arms makers could deprive Kyiv of millions of shells

https://archive.ph/xgjqo

 

Why EU countries are nervous about funding a US loan to Ukraine

https://archive.ph/zNe28#selection-1589.0-1589.63

 

Unfortunately, the information contained in your links may well be correct. It might also be the unfortunate case that the conflict escalates.

 

However, none of that alters the fact that this war is of Putin's making not the West's.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Unfortunately, the information contained in your links may well be correct. It might also be the unfortunate case that the conflict escalates.

 

However, none of that alters the fact that this war is of Putin's making not the West's.

Escalation means Europe on a path to total war footing and possibility of nukes. China won't let Russia lose either or they know it's them next. Stalemate. No thanks.

 

6 million folks have died in the Congo and no one cares or comments about it  so why should I care about this sad and tragic affair in a country far away unfair as it no doubt is ?  The west walked away from Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya amongst others and they will walk away from Ukraine with crocodile tears and Zelenskiy will get that ride out of Dodge in the end. 

[beautifulthailand99]

 FT news articles on the war are beginning to be scripted with more openness and honesty which seems a prelude to negotiations, though these will remain a slow process as Russia will be able to remain poorer for longer than Ukraine will be able to endure colder and darker. Expect a winter thaw.

 

https://archive.ph/l1AwJ

 

One Ukrainian government official described Saturday’s assault as “devastating” while another said it was likely to mean that by winter residents would be spending a vast majority of their day without electricity.

    Both officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to speak to the press. One of the officials said 1.2GW of power generation was lost in Saturday’s bombardment alone, while infrastructure critical for transporting gas from underground storage facilities in western Ukraine was badly damaged.

    Asked what the damage would mean for the months ahead, one of the officials put it bluntly: “We should prepare for life in the cold and the dark.”