Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Rimmer]

An off topic post has been removed

 

Latest developments and discussion of recent events in the Ukraine War

[Bkk Brian]

T90 the best tanks in the world, honest......

 

 

[BigBruv]

Ukraine v Romania has just kicked off at Euro 2024 Football Tournament in Munich.

Tens of thousands of male Ukraine supporters there.

 

With Ukraine at war, seems a bit odd to have so many of your fighting age males going on holiday to Germany to watch football.

 

Does it seem odd to anyone else or am I missing something?

[BigBruv]

24 minutes ago, BigBruv said:

Ukraine v Romania has just kicked off at Euro 2024 Football Tournament in Munich.

Tens of thousands of male Ukraine supporters there.

 

With Ukraine at war, seems a bit odd to have so many of your fighting age males going on holiday to Germany to watch football.

 

Does it seem odd to anyone else or am I missing something?

 

Thanks for the confused emojis 👍

 

TBF it is confusing.

 

Does anyone have any sensible explanations for 10s of thousands of Ukrainian men (who are supposed to be at war with Russia) taking time off to fly to Germany to watch football matches?

 

(FWIW Ukraine are now also losing at the football too (1-0))

[ExpatOilWorker]

 

[Gweiloman]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

This appears to be a fraction of the Russian soldiers trapped in Vovchansk.

 

There are hundreds more trying to get back to Russian lines.

My, the Ukraine propaganda is strong. 
 

One would imagine that a surrender after a failed raid on a factory would happen in or near the factory. But no! It happens in the woods in god knows where. Yet, some people believe all these lies. Oh well, a sucker is born every day.

[jvs]

4 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

My, the Ukraine propaganda is strong. 
 

One would imagine that a surrender after a failed raid on a factory would happen in or near the factory. But no! It happens in the woods in god knows where. Yet, some people believe all these lies. Oh well, a sucker is born every day.

Just for you,something else you will deny.

 

[Gweiloman]

22 minutes ago, jvs said:

Just for you,something else you will deny.

 

It might surprise you to learn that I really couldn’t care less whichever side wins the conflict or suffer more casualties etc etc. It’s not my war, I don’t have any skin in the game.

 

What I’m happy about is how the global majority has seen the hypocrisy of the west, has seen how the so called rules based international order is completely one sided, has seen the extent to which some countries will go to defend their hegemony, has seen how sanctions can be effectively mitigated and has decided on their future course of action.

 

Western hegemony is ended. It’s time for a new world order. 

[rabas]

44 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Western hegemony is ended. It’s time for a new world order. 

...the H word, again. 

 

Yes. Why have hegemony (def: leadership, dominance) when you can have despotism (def: the exercise of absolute power  especially in a cruel and oppressive way.)

 

Me, I have always rooted for global cooperation among all peoples.

[Gweiloman]

7 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Me, I have always rooted for global cooperation among all peoples.

Tell that to your government. Are you really that dense to think that your government is for global cooperation? Anyway, the global majority knows better.

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, BigBruv said:

 

Thanks for the confused emojis 👍

 

TBF it is confusing.

 

Does anyone have any sensible explanations for 10s of thousands of Ukrainian men (who are supposed to be at war with Russia) taking time off to fly to Germany to watch football matches?

 

(FWIW Ukraine are now also losing at the football too (1-0))

They are refugees who don't want to go back to be enlisted. Good luck to them.

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, jvs said:

Just for you,something else you will deny.

 

 

TBH all of these videos from both sides with moronic music added turing this into some sick video snuff video wargame turns my stomach and serves no purpose other than to glorify war. Soldiers from both sides who probably have little choice in the matter are being blown to bits - I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

[beautifulthailand99]

Any reasonable human being would avoid conscription in such a war, especially considering that most of the conscripts are used as cannon fodder and have a lifetime of days or, in the best-case scenario, weeks at the front line. Would you ?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o

 

This latest conscription drive has opened up uncomfortable divisions in society, not only between those serving and those avoiding the draft, but also between female friends, some of whom have partners on the front line, and others who are hiding their boyfriends at home.

The topic of mobilisation creeps into almost every conversation, which then often turn heated. Last month someone threw an explosive into the garden of an enlistment officer’s home.

There is a striking distrust among the men choosing not to enlist. They do not trust the officers, after some were found to be taking bribes to help men escape the country. Nor do they trust they would be adequately trained.

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Any reasonable human being would avoid conscription in such a war, especially considering that most of the conscripts are used as cannon fodder and have a lifetime of days or, in the best-case scenario, weeks at the front line. Would you ?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz994d6vqe5o

 

This latest conscription drive has opened up uncomfortable divisions in society, not only between those serving and those avoiding the draft, but also between female friends, some of whom have partners on the front line, and others who are hiding their boyfriends at home.

The topic of mobilisation creeps into almost every conversation, which then often turn heated. Last month someone threw an explosive into the garden of an enlistment officer’s home.

There is a striking distrust among the men choosing not to enlist. They do not trust the officers, after some were found to be taking bribes to help men escape the country. Nor do they trust they would be adequately trained.

Your post is ironic, given that Thailand is filled with Russian draft dodgers. No idea how many there are, but it's a lot.

 

I would talk with them, but I suspect a lot are pro-war.

 

I haven't seen a Ukrainian in Pattaya, though. Perhaps they all went to Germany.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

TBH all of these videos from both sides with moronic music added turing this into some sick video snuff video wargame turns my stomach and serves no purpose other than to glorify war. Soldiers from both sides who probably have little choice in the matter are being blown to bits - I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

Standard war propaganda.

 

Also the video is useful in assessing Russian losses.

[Danderman123]

6 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

It might surprise you to learn that I really couldn’t care less whichever side wins the conflict or suffer more casualties etc etc. It’s not my war, I don’t have any skin in the game.

 

What I’m happy about is how the global majority has seen the hypocrisy of the west, has seen how the so called rules based international order is completely one sided, has seen the extent to which some countries will go to defend their hegemony, has seen how sanctions can be effectively mitigated and has decided on their future course of action.

 

Western hegemony is ended. It’s time for a new world order. 

"Western hegemony", is that the phrase of the day in the troll farms?

 

Yes, I know it's an unpleasant reality that NATO is the dominant military alliance in the world. At least you can console yourself knowing that Belarus will stick with Russia through thick and thin.

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

TBH all of these videos from both sides with moronic music added turing this into some sick video snuff video wargame turns my stomach and serves no purpose other than to glorify war. Soldiers from both sides who probably have little choice in the matter are being blown to bits - I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

 

Of course, this one goes against your previous narrative so why watch it.

[Bkk Brian]

9 hours ago, BigBruv said:

Ukraine v Romania has just kicked off at Euro 2024 Football Tournament in Munich.

Tens of thousands of male Ukraine supporters there.

 

With Ukraine at war, seems a bit odd to have so many of your fighting age males going on holiday to Germany to watch football.

 

Does it seem odd to anyone else or am I missing something?

Does it seem odd to anyone else or am I missing something?

 

No not odd as you are missing plenty, a lot of the Ukraine youth attended, over 1 million Ukraine refugees went to Germany including single fathers and families, all legally left. Even Ukraine media have covered the supporters. Before Russia started its illegal war Germany was already home to over a million Ukraine immigrants, so in total there are currently well over 2 million in Germany.

 

That's plenty to miss on your part.

 

https://x.com/KyivPost/status/1802695948037984500

 

[Gweiloman]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

"Western hegemony", is that the phrase of the day in the troll farms?

 

Yes, I know it's an unpleasant reality that NATO is the dominant military alliance in the world. At least you can console yourself knowing that Belarus will stick with Russia through thick and thin.

No, it’s something the global majority is working hard to end.

 

Nato is the dominant military alliance and yet for the past 2 years and billions of dollars spent, they are still struggling to contain the Russian army from advancing in Ukraine, an army that many western experts including many posters on here

have claimed is weak, inept, blah, blah, blah.

 

It’s really hilarious watching all that’s happening. UK introducing mandatory national service, Germany preparing for war with Russia in 2029, Estonia declaring that its all of 32 soldiers can stop Russia from invading Europe, other countries scrambling to raise taxes to fund increased military spending… All these actions will just further weaken the European states and undermine its economies even more. And all this while, still buying Russian LNG (bought more from Russia than the US in May), US buying uranium from Russia etc. Yes, it’s fun to watch indeed.

[ChicagoExpat]

15 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Oh my! I hope you weren’t caught up in all those arrests and that you were not roughed up. That would be tragic instead.

 

I also saw a lot of protesters being arrested for protesting the war. Some were even assaulted by the police. Their civil liberties were definitely ignored and trampled on. Only, if didn’t happen in Russia and the protesters were protesting about another war. I’m sure you know which one.

I wasn't!  The inevitable time in gulag wasn't worth it, and nor would I have protested the invasion of Poland if living in Germany at the time.  Your concern is touching, thank you.

 

No, I don't know which one.  But neither do I care as it's an obvious red herring and certainly not comparable to what we're actually talking about, which is civil liberties in Russia.

 

We all take your hilarious two-step around the issue -- "look, a squirrel!" -- as tacit admission that you know that there are no civil liberties in Russia.  Why you think a refusal to admit this makes your arguments better... is a mystery of the universe.  Debating 101.

[Danderman123]

9 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Western hegemony is ended. It’s time for a new world order. 

This is where you are detached from reality.

 

Russian military might opposes Western hegemony.

 

But, every day the war rages on, Russian military power lessens. 1,000+ dead Russian soldiers, tanks lost, aircraft lost, every day Western hegemony increases as Russia loses.

 

Putin has been trapped by his mistakes.

[metisdead]

A flaming post contravening our Community Standards has been removed:

 

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[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

No, it’s something the global majority is working hard to end.

 

Nato is the dominant military alliance and yet for the past 2 years and billions of dollars spent, they are still struggling to contain the Russian army from advancing in Ukraine, an army that many western experts including many posters on here

have claimed is weak, inept, blah, blah, blah.

 

It’s really hilarious watching all that’s happening. UK introducing mandatory national service, Germany preparing for war with Russia in 2029, Estonia declaring that its all of 32 soldiers can stop Russia from invading Europe, other countries scrambling to raise taxes to fund increased military spending… All these actions will just further weaken the European states and undermine its economies even more. And all this while, still buying Russian LNG (bought more from Russia than the US in May), US buying uranium from Russia etc. Yes, it’s fun to watch indeed.

Earth to @Gweiloman:

 

You are describing the normal reaction of European nations seeing a Russian invasion of a neighboring nation.

 

Did you think that business as usual would be the response?

 

Next, you are going to claim that Sweden joining NATO is a sign of weakness.

 

 

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

Nato is the dominant military alliance and yet for the past 2 years and billions of dollars spent, they are still struggling to contain the Russian army from advancing in Ukraine

 

errr... the pointe of the old joke about the war in Ukraine seems appropriate here : "NATO hasn't arrived yet"

 

so you mean the support of NATO to Ukraine, totalling 0.1 % of NATO's budget and zero soldiers and zero military units, and including for 95% of it 40 to 50 year old technology is straining NATO ?

 

NATO's support for Ukraine, from the viewpoint of NATO, is what it can spare during peacetime. NATO is currently at peace, and it helps Ukraine contain the Ruzzian army by just scraping bits and odds of equipment together here and there and sending it to Ukraine while remaining at peace and maintaining "business as usual".

 

To summarize : Ruzzia's all-out assault on Ukraine is unable to progress against a Ukrainian army that is remotely supported by NATO's equivalent of spare pocket change.

Edited June 18 by tgw

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

This is where you are detached from reality.

 

Russian military might opposes Western hegemony.

 

But, every day the war rages on, Russian military power lessens. 1,000+ dead Russian soldiers, tanks lost, aircraft lost, every day Western hegemony increases as Russia loses.

 

Putin has been trapped by his mistakes.

 

56 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Earth to @Gweiloman:

 

You are describing the normal reaction of European nations seeing a Russian invasion of a neighboring nation.

 

Did you think that business as usual would be the response?

 

Next, you are going to claim that Sweden joining NATO is a sign of weakness.

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

errr... the pointe of the old joke about the war in Ukraine seems appropriate here : "NATO hasn't arrived yet"

 

so you mean the support of NATO to Ukraine, totalling 0.1 % of NATO's budget and zero soldiers and zero military units, and including for 95% of it 40 to 50 year old technology is straining NATO ?

 

NATO's support for Ukraine, from the viewpoint of NATO, is what it can spare during peacetime. NATO is currently at peace, and it helps Ukraine contain the Ruzzian army by just scraping bits and odds of equipment together here and there and sending it to Ukraine while remaining at peace and maintaining "business as usual".

 

To summarize : Ruzzia's all-out assault on Ukraine is unable to progress against a Ukrainian army that is remotely supported by NATO's equivalent of spare pocket change.

Really? Whatever. You can repeat all the talking points you like, I prefer to look at facts. 1,000’s of soldiers dead, 99% of tanks blown up, economy in tatters, Ruble is rubble, fighting with shovels, blah blah blah.

 

I’m just sitting back enjoying the show, watching the west destroy itself. The real winner at the end of the day is the global majority and particularly India and China. Russia also wins by virtue of being part of BRICS. Biggest loser is Europe of course and in particular Germany, for allowing its economy and manufacturing capacity to be taken out by a major competitor. Didn’t even put up a whimper when its competitor blew up it main source of energy supply. Pathetic really.

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

 

 

Really? Whatever. You can repeat all the talking points you like, I prefer to look at facts. 1,000’s of soldiers dead, 99% of tanks blown up, economy in tatters, Ruble is rubble, fighting with shovels, blah blah blah.

 

I’m just sitting back enjoying the show, watching the west destroy itself. The real winner at the end of the day is the global majority and particularly India and China. Russia also wins by virtue of being part of BRICS. Biggest loser is Europe of course and in particular Germany, for allowing its economy and manufacturing capacity to be taken out by a major competitor. Didn’t even put up a whimper when its competitor blew up it main source of energy supply. Pathetic really.

You ignore the loss of 1000s of Russian soldiers and their vehicles and supplies.

 

And the realization by India and China that their Russian heritage military equipment is not as good as they thought it was. You are going to see a big drop in Russian arms sales soon, unless they reduce prices.

 

PS: the technical term for your response is "hand waving", since you failed to acknowledge the impact of Russian losses in your answer. Even you must realize that these losses are not sustainable.

Edited June 18 by Danderman123

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

No, it’s something the global majority is working hard to end.

 

Nato is the dominant military alliance and yet for the past 2 years and billions of dollars spent, they are still struggling to contain the Russian army from advancing in Ukraine, an army that many western experts including many posters on here

have claimed is weak, inept, blah, blah, blah.

 

It’s really hilarious watching all that’s happening. UK introducing mandatory national service, Germany preparing for war with Russia in 2029, Estonia declaring that its all of 32 soldiers can stop Russia from invading Europe, other countries scrambling to raise taxes to fund increased military spending… All these actions will just further weaken the European states and undermine its economies even more. And all this while, still buying Russian LNG (bought more from Russia than the US in May), US buying uranium from Russia etc. Yes, it’s fun to watch indeed.

err "UK introducing mandatory national service" not true - I do have standards.

[beautifulthailand99]

6 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

 

Of course, this one goes against your previous narrative so why watch it.

It might surprise you Brian that I'm a pacifist, a Buddhist and a trustee of a charity but I find no satisfaction in watching the death of anybody from my own armchair for whatever reason.  These are somebodies sons, somebodies brothers , somebodies husbands  but they are all victims.

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It might surprise you Brian that I'm a pacifist, a Buddhist and a trustee of a charity but I find no satisfaction in watching the death of anybody from my own armchair for whatever reason.  These are somebodies sons, somebodies brothers , somebodies husbands  but they are all victims.

 

It might surprise you Brian that I'm a pacifist

 

Nothing surprises me about you but its still a fact, as soon as a vid goes up that does not fit your previous narrative and adds weight to the previous claim made you make similar remarks. I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

It might surprise you Brian that I'm a pacifist

 

Nothing surprises me about you but its still a fact, as soon as a vid goes up that does not fit your previous narrative and adds weight to the previous claim made you make similar remarks. I'm not sure what is gained by watching these.

Ok I'll bite. Where ? Find a previous one and I'll concede. Cue piffle about I haven't got time to trawl through all your pointless garbiage to try and find the gotcha that you think it is. I forgot you are armchair warrioring on 2 fronts here, and Israel. Frankly I don't have the time.