Poll/Survey: Expat Tax Residency Status

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, Flummoxed said:

The poll is pretty useless for the above reason. Personally I'm declaring as much tax as possible since I'm going through the citizenship process. More declared income = more points... So, why no "I'm paying as much tax as possible" option? Don't the 3 or 4 people like me count?

I guess you didn't read all the way down to the bottom of the poll ...

[bg53]

Wait and see,

 

But if it gets gnarly, the plan is to take my money or my physical body out of taxman's reach.

[mania]

7 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Are you sure it is still applicable? I'm pretty sure there was a reorganization a few years ago with different numbers being issued.But I may be mistaken.

I do not know but when I got it I asked if I need to renew & they told me it was good for life. But TIT right? 😉 So anything could be possible.

[KhunHeineken]

On 5/25/2024 at 10:51 PM, BritManToo said:

My plan is to do nothing, and expect them to be too lazy and incompetent to notice me.

This is why I have said the policy will involve visas / extension in the future.  It will force foreigners to act, and make foreigners approach the Thai government, rather than the government chasing them. 

 

This is for another thread, at another time, IF it happens, but the Thai government's solution for people choosing to just "do nothing" is easily fixed, as mentioned above.

 

Time will tell. 

[Yumthai]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

This is why I have said the policy will involve visas / extension in the future.  It will force foreigners to act, and make foreigners approach the Thai government, rather than the government chasing them. 

 

This is for another thread, at another time, IF it happens, but the Thai government's solution for people choosing to just "do nothing" is easily fixed, as mentioned above.

 

Time will tell. 

 

So, TRD will coordinate with Immigration to implement a way to control systematically/yearly the tax situation of every single foreigner residing in Thailand meanwhile millions of Thais will continue "doing nothing" remaining unchecked? Unreal.

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Yumthai said:

 

So, TRD will coordinate with Immigration to implement a way to control systematically/yearly the tax situation of every single foreigner residing in Thailand meanwhile millions of Thais will continue "doing nothing" remaining unchecked? Unreal.

Just in the way you have to have a document showing your 800k Thai baht at extension time, you will need some type of document from the TRD. 

 

Immigration will do nothing but sight / retain / copy this document before issuing the extension.  This forces expat foreigners to approach and deal with the TRD.  For immigration, it will be as simple as that.

 

The dealings with the TRD may be more complex.

 

Once again, this is for another thread, at another time, but many expats are expecting this future requirement, including myself. 

 

Time will tell.

 

I have said before, for this policy to have any chance of working, Thai banks will have to be onboard.  If / when Thai banks start recording and reporting in accordance with this tax policy, this is how Thai's "doing nothing" but remitting funds from offshore, will come under notice. 

[Dan747]

I will do "NOTHING" but wait and see even though I am spending less than 180 days in Thailand. However, I am a little apprehensive that the Thai government will get the Banks involved, since I have well over 1 million baht there and try and tax anyway. "Happy Travels and Good Luck to All."

[QuantumQuandry]

Wait and see...and invest nothing in Thailand that I can't take with me if I decide to leave.

[sandyf]

On 5/26/2024 at 12:51 AM, BritManToo said:

My plan is to do nothing, and expect them to be too lazy and incompetent to notice me.

Why does lazy and incompetent come into it.

I am a UK tax resident and the revenue dept say there is no requirement to file a return unless I need to, or are you saying every revenue dept is lazy and incompetent.

The whole issue has been blown out of proportion by those that would look to profit from selling services to those that are unaware they do not need such services.

[Hummin]

On 5/26/2024 at 1:14 AM, bkk6060 said:

Exactly, good one.

Brit avoided to pay tax for 12 years! I can see the headlines in the future 

[Everyman]

I will do nothing different, but I’ve been traveling a lot for unrelated reasons and don’t expect to be in Thailand for 180 days this year. 

 

I only bring in enough to live on for myself anyway, so I’m the smallest fish they could go after. If they do anything, they’ll make an example of a bigger fish, then we will see. 

 

But I think that a year from now exactly nothing will have happened and everyone will still be back and forth with the speculating. 

 

As far as “following the laws of the kingdom,” I don’t think most people realize just how many things are illegal in Thailand and how many laws everyone routinely violates. But that doesn’t matter, what matters is enforcement of laws, which is also the case with this tax business. 

[Skeptic7]

6 hours ago, Dan747 said:

I will do "NOTHING" but wait and see even though I am spending less than 180 days in Thailand. However, I am a little apprehensive that the Thai government will get the Banks involved, since I have well over 1 million baht there and try and tax anyway. "Happy Travels and Good Luck to All."

Thailand already taxes foreigners Thai bank accounts on the earned interest automatically. Started a few back. 

[Mike Lister]

21 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Thailand already taxes foreigners Thai bank accounts on the earned interest automatically. Started a few back. 

Everyone is taxed the same way, just as everyone pays VAT and sales tax. Everyone is able to reclaim that tax withheld on savings interest at the end of the tax year, by filing a tax return.

[Skeptic7]

9 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Everyone is taxed the same way, just as everyone pays VAT and sales tax. Everyone is able to reclaim that tax withheld on savings interest at the end of the tax year, by filing a tax return.

But it's not "everyone the same way". Thais do not have tax on earned interest automatically withheld from their bank accounts. We foreigners now do...and this just started automatically (on us only), regardless of amount earned, a few years back. As you are certainly aware, previously it was only after the earned interest threshold was reached.

 

Furthermore...my response was to the statement that the poster was concerned Thailand would start taxing money already here in the bank. They already do. 

[Mike Lister]

17 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

But it's not "everyone the same way". Thais do not have tax on earned interest automatically withheld from their bank accounts. We foreigners now do...and this just started automatically (on us only), regardless of amount earned, a few years back. As you are certainly aware, previously it was only after the earned interest threshold was reached.

 

Furthermore...my response was to the statement that the poster was concerned Thailand would start taxing money already here in the bank. They already do. 

All savings accounts are subject to a withholding tax on interest earned, except children under age 18, this is not just a rule for foreigners. You can defer that tax by presenting the bank with your tax ID number, Thai nationals already do this because their tax ID number is their ID card number. Doing so will mean that the first 20k of interest is not subject to the withholding tax.

 

https://sherrings.com/interest-income-personal-tax-thailand.html

[retarius]

I'm out of the country for a spell....90 days to be specific. When I go back to Thailand I'll still have time to make the decision on whether to stay and do nothing or argue it out with the tax people. The money I brought over for this year was about 3.5 million baht, all from savings. I don't plan to bring any more over this year, or next year if this issue isn't cleared by then.  I'd rather not get asked for documentation I don't have or is difficult to obtain beyond 12/31 statements from bank accounts. 

 

If I do get a Thai bill, I plan to try to deduct the sum paid from US taxes for 2024 as the tax payment would be in 2024. 

[Skeptic7]

18 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Thai nationals already do this because their tax ID number is their ID card number.

Thx for this info. Was unaware. Makes more sense now. 

[Yumthai]

11 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have said before, for this policy to have any chance of working, Thai banks will have to be onboard.  If / when Thai banks start recording and reporting in accordance with this tax policy, this is how Thai's "doing nothing" but remitting funds from offshore, will come under notice. 

I don't believe Thailand is willing to reach that level of Chinese/North Korean control over their population, but if they eventually start strictly enforcing rules restraining privacy and freedom I will limit my stay in Thailand at 179 days/year.

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I don't believe Thailand is willing to reach that level of Chinese/North Korean control over their population, but if they eventually start strictly enforcing rules restraining privacy and freedom I will limit my stay in Thailand at 179 days/year.

It's hardly "Chinese/North Korean control."  As other members said above, it's already happening to some degree. 

 

I have to supply my bank in Australia with a Tax File Number (TFN) or tax on interest is withheld at near 50%.  Also, any transactions over $10,000AUD are reported to a government department.  (AUSTRAC)    It's nothing new to me, or many other westerners. 

 

Our various countries already know what money flows into our accounts, and how, and from who and where, under anti money laundering, anti terrorism, and proceeds of crime laws designed to track money. 

 

As Mike said, Thai's are already doing it with the ID card number, that doubles as their tax ID number. 

 

All the Thai banks would have to do is tweak existing infrastructure (computer data bases) to report the amount each account holder remits at the end of every year.  Easy to do. 

 

It's not a privacy issue, like China and North Korea, it's a tax evasion issue. 

 

What I suspect MAY happen is foreigners will need an end of tax year statement from their bank which shows total remitted funds / deposits.  This document must be taken to a TRD office where the appropriate tax will be paid by the foreigner.  The foreigner will then be issued a document from the TRD.  The foreigner then keeps this document until extension time where it must be produced to immigration.  It will just be like paying another bill. 

 

I do agree with BMT that Thai public servants can be incompetent and lazy, but if what I have described above is the way the Thai government is going to implement this policy, you can see it makes the foreigner do all the work and approach the TRD, so no "chasing" involved, and the requirement from immigration for the TRD document is a simple and easy way of enforcement, with no work for immigration to do other then sight the TRD document.  

 

What will be interesting is all the clauses in the policy about was it savings before 2024, gifting etc etc blah blah blah.  I think these will be too difficult for the TRD, and this is where I agree with BMT, but I think they will fall by the way side and you will just be told to pay tax on total remitted funds or no extension for you. 

 

The Thai government knows this will be an easy and big earner for them. With around 75% of the poll voting for doing nothing, I just can't see them allowing everyone to plod along doing nothing, and only targeting high wealth individual Thai's.  They probably already have a plan in place, and if they don't, they have 7 months to come up with one and put it out there through the media.  Maybe they haven't done this on purpose so many "do nothing" and they get more tax from the 2024 tax year. 

 

I guess we will all see what unfolds between January and March 2025, but I am already using ATM's with my foreign Visa card and keeping the receipts, plan a cash run when I go to the F1 in Singapore, will have my son bring in some more cash when he holiday's here, and I am planning a more longer term strategy for 2025. 

 

I have mentioned I like to fly under the radar here, but I actually think in this case I might have to pay the TRD just a little in the hope that I don't attract any unwanted attention for somehow being able to live here without remitting funds.   

 

It will all unfold early 2025.  Interesting times ahead. 

[Mike Lister]

2 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It's hardly "Chinese/North Korean control."  As other members said above, it's already happening to some degree. 

 

I have to supply my bank in Australia with a Tax File Number (TFN) or tax on interest is withheld at near 50%.  Also, any transactions over $10,000AUD are reported to a government department.  (AUSTRAC)    It's nothing new to me, or many other westerners. 

 

Our various countries already know what money flows into our accounts, and how, and from who and where, under anti money laundering, anti terrorism, and proceeds of crime laws designed to track money. 

 

As Mike said, Thai's are already doing it with the ID card number, that doubles as their tax ID number. 

 

All the Thai banks would have to do is tweak existing infrastructure (computer data bases) to report the amount each account holder remits at the end of every year.  Easy to do. 

 

It's not a privacy issue, like China and North Korea, it's a tax evasion issue. 

 

What I suspect MAY happen is foreigners will need an end of tax year statement from their bank which shows total remitted funds / deposits.  This document must be taken to a TRD office where the appropriate tax will be paid by the foreigner.  The foreigner will then be issued a document from the TRD.  The foreigner then keeps this document until extension time where it must be produced to immigration.  It will just be like paying another bill. 

 

I do agree with BMT that Thai public servants can be incompetent and lazy, but if what I have described above is the way the Thai government is going to implement this policy, you can see it makes the foreigner do all the work and approach the TRD, so no "chasing" involved, and the requirement from immigration for the TRD document is a simple and easy way of enforcement, with no work for immigration to do other then sight the TRD document.  

 

What will be interesting is all the clauses in the policy about was it savings before 2024, gifting etc etc blah blah blah.  I think these will be too difficult for the TRD, and this is where I agree with BMT, but I think they will fall by the way side and you will just be told to pay tax on total remitted funds or no extension for you. 

 

The Thai government knows this will be an easy and big earner for them. With around 75% of the poll voting for doing nothing, I just can't see them allowing everyone to plod along doing nothing, and only targeting high wealth individual Thai's.  They probably already have a plan in place, and if they don't, they have 7 months to come up with one and put it out there through the media.  Maybe they haven't done this on purpose so many "do nothing" and they get more tax from the 2024 tax year. 

 

I guess we will all see what unfolds between January and March 2025, but I am already using ATM's with my foreign Visa card and keeping the receipts, plan a cash run when I go to the F1 in Singapore, will have my son bring in some more cash when he holiday's here, and I am planning a more longer term strategy for 2025. 

 

I have mentioned I like to fly under the radar here, but I actually think in this case I might have to pay the TRD just a little in the hope that I don't attract any unwanted attention for somehow being able to live here without remitting funds.   

 

It will all unfold early 2025.  Interesting times ahead. 

Highlighted parts of the above are nonsense, do you not understand the difference between assessable and not assessable, tax resident and not tax resident!

[KhunHeineken]

32 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Highlighted parts of the above are nonsense, do you not understand the difference between assessable and not assessable, tax resident and not tax resident!

I explained your highlighted part further in my post.  It's where I agree with BMT.

 

This what I said:  "What will be interesting is all the clauses in the policy about was it savings before 2024, gifting etc etc blah blah blah.  I think these will be too difficult for the TRD, and this is where I agree with BMT, but I think they will fall by the way side and you will just be told to pay tax on total remitted funds or no extension for you. "

 

I understand you believe the law will be implement to the exact letter of the law, but I don't see it going that way, unless you are bringing in millions of dollars, but for most expats, I can't see the TRD looking that hard into an individual's offshore income / savings etc.  I even mentioned maybe it's all about just paying 300 baht for a TRD document, like we do for a Certificate of Residency, which should be free.  

 

I am looking at every possible angle of this tax law, and considering what moves the Thai government may make.  I have put forward some opinions, and some facts, and a few predictions. 

 

Internet forums are about members putting forward information, opinions, facts, interpretations, links, predictions, personal experiences, even rumors etc etc.  I think calling it "nonsense" is a bit harsh. 

 

I remember being ridiculed when I said legalizing cannabis is on its way.  Yes, called "nonsense" also.  I've also stated it's only a matter of time before Thailand has casinos.  Yes, another "nonsense" call, but we'll see. 

 

I have simply put forward my thoughts on this policy, and how I think the Thai government will make it work.  I am not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong. 

 

From memory, I think you have predicted it will be all too difficult for the Thai government to implement, so it will basically disappear.  Correct me if I am wrong.  I have considered your view, and it's possible.  I don't view anyone's opinion as "nonsense."  For me, anything is possible with this mess of a policy.  Like many things in Thailand, maybe it was designed that way to operate completely in a grey area, so it can be manipulated as seen fit.  We all know Thailand likes its "grey areas" so on that basis, I suggest nothing is "nonsense."   

 

For the record, I'll say it again, I just can't see the Thai government allowing the majority to "do nothing" which this poll shows seems to indicate what most will be doing, being, nothing, and I have put forward my reasons.  I accept many may disagree with me, and that's fine. 

 

We will all know early 2025, but until then, I see nothing wrong with looking at it from all angles and discussing what the Thai government may or may not do. 

[Mike Lister]

8 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I explained your highlighted part further in my post.  It's where I agree with BMT.

 

This what I said:  "What will be interesting is all the clauses in the policy about was it savings before 2024, gifting etc etc blah blah blah.  I think these will be too difficult for the TRD, and this is where I agree with BMT, but I think they will fall by the way side and you will just be told to pay tax on total remitted funds or no extension for you. "

 

I understand you believe the law will be implement to the exact letter of the law, but I don't see it going that way, unless you are bringing in millions of dollars, but for most expats, I can't see the TRD looking that hard into an individual's offshore income / savings etc.  I even mentioned maybe it's all about just paying 300 baht for a TRD document, like we do for a Certificate of Residency, which should be free.  

 

I am looking at every possible angle of this tax law, and considering what moves the Thai government may make.  I have put forward some opinions, and some facts, and a few predictions. 

 

Internet forums are about members putting forward information, opinions, facts, interpretations, links, predictions, personal experiences, even rumors etc etc.  I think calling it "nonsense" is a bit harsh. 

 

I remember being ridiculed when I said legalizing cannabis is on its way.  Yes, called "nonsense" also.  I've also stated it's only a matter of time before Thailand has casinos.  Yes, another "nonsense" call, but we'll see. 

 

I have simply put forward my thoughts on this policy, and how I think the Thai government will make it work.  I am not saying I am right and everyone else is wrong. 

 

From memory, I think you have predicted it will be all too difficult for the Thai government to implement, so it will basically disappear.  Correct me if I am wrong.  I have considered your view, and it's possible.  I don't view anyone's opinion as "nonsense."  For me, anything is possible with this mess of a policy.  Like many things in Thailand, maybe it was designed that way to operate completely in a grey area, so it can be manipulated as seen fit.  We all know Thailand likes its "grey areas" so on that basis, I suggest nothing is "nonsense."   

 

For the record, I'll say it again, I just can't see the Thai government allowing the majority to "do nothing" which this poll shows seems to indicate what most will be doing, being, nothing, and I have put forward my reasons.  I accept many may disagree with me, and that's fine. 

 

We will all know early 2025, but until then, I see nothing wrong with looking at it from all angles and discussing what the Thai government may or may not do. 

Using your logic. That the TRD won't do nothing, what action have they taken to make the 89 percent of the population who don't file returns, file them?

[KhunHeineken]

17 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Using your logic. That the TRD won't do nothing, what action have they taken to make the 89 percent of the population who don't file returns, file them?

Isn't that the nature of many of these new tax threads?  That is, times are changing, and it's possible they will start collecting this tax.   

 

We all know a lot of Thai's live hand to mouth.  Also, a lot work in the black or cash economy.  No secret with this. 

 

I don't know how many of them make up the 89%, but what we do know is a lot send money home, either domestically, or internationally, to their family.  I would suggest, the majority of that  money flows through Thai bank accounts. 

 

You did say this, "All savings accounts are subject to a withholding tax on interest earned, except children under age 18, this is not just a rule for foreigners."  If this is the case, the TRD isn't exactly taking no action, are they? 

 

I have suggested it would not take much effort to drag expats into the Thai tax system, and have given some examples of options available to the Thai government for doing so. 

 

I would find it hard to believe the government have not thought of the obvious ones that myself, and many others, have put forward.  It may end up being one of them, or a mix of some of them, but in my opinion, and I'll say that again, in my opinion, I think the "doing nothing" option will not be available to foreigners early 2025. 

 

We will all just have to wait and see.  I really do hope I am wrong and "doing nothing" is an option.  However, and as BMT alluded to, despite incompetence and laziness, I can't see the Thai government announcing big changes and then allowing everyone to "do nothing" whilst they also continue to "do nothing" about the changes. 

 

If the Thai government planned on "doing nothing" about collecting this tax, why would they waste their time even announcing the policy?  They must have something up their sleeve. 

[Mike Lister]

27 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Isn't that the nature of many of these new tax threads?  That is, times are changing, and it's possible they will start collecting this tax.   

 

We all know a lot of Thai's live hand to mouth.  Also, a lot work in the black or cash economy.  No secret with this. 

 

I don't know how many of them make up the 89%, but what we do know is a lot send money home, either domestically, or internationally, to their family.  I would suggest, the majority of that  money flows through Thai bank accounts. 

 

You did say this, "All savings accounts are subject to a withholding tax on interest earned, except children under age 18, this is not just a rule for foreigners."  If this is the case, the TRD isn't exactly taking no action, are they? 

 

I have suggested it would not take much effort to drag expats into the Thai tax system, and have given some examples of options available to the Thai government for doing so. 

 

I would find it hard to believe the government have not thought of the obvious ones that myself, and many others, have put forward.  It may end up being one of them, or a mix of some of them, but in my opinion, and I'll say that again, in my opinion, I think the "doing nothing" option will not be available to foreigners early 2025. 

 

We will all just have to wait and see.  I really do hope I am wrong and "doing nothing" is an option.  However, and as BMT alluded to, despite incompetence and laziness, I can't see the Thai government announcing big changes and then allowing everyone to "do nothing" whilst they also continue to "do nothing" about the changes. 

 

If the Thai government planned on "doing nothing" about collecting this tax, why would they waste their time even announcing the policy?  They must have something up their sleeve. 

The withholding tax on bank accounts has been in place for many many years but doesn't seem to have had much positive impact on the number of people who file tax returns,

 

The grey economy is estimated to represent 49% of the workforce which in turn comprises 38 million

people. 

 

The entire thrust of your argument is that the TRD will use proxies such as the Banks or the Immigration Dept to enforce the filing of returns. If that were true and likely that that they would do that for the 300,000 or so foreigners in Thailand, why haven't they already taken comparable steps already to ensure the 15.6 million native Thai's in the work force, file also?

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The entire thrust of your argument is that the TRD will use proxies such as the Banks or the Immigration Dept to enforce the filing of returns. If that were true and likely that that they would do that for the 300,000 or so foreigners in Thailand, why haven't they already taken comparable steps already to ensure the 15.6 million native Thai's in the work force, file also?

 

i would not underestimate the TRD. thailand is known for its bureaucratic processes, making life difficult for us foreigners ...

 

if the average retiree transfers approximately 100,000 thb per month to thailand. this amount would lead to around 120,000 thb in taxes. would that not be worthwhile for the TRD ...? and enforcing tax laws against foreigners would be more popular than doing so against the own thai citizens. 

 

only time will tell ... i'm also prepared to see a few u-turns on this issue ....

 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

The withholding tax on bank accounts has been in place for many many years but doesn't seem to have had much positive impact on the number of people who file tax returns,

 

The grey economy is estimated to represent 49% of the workforce which in turn comprises 38 million

people. 

 

The entire thrust of your argument is that the TRD will use proxies such as the Banks or the Immigration Dept to enforce the filing of returns. If that were true and likely that that they would do that for the 300,000 or so foreigners in Thailand, why haven't they already taken comparable steps already to ensure the 15.6 million native Thai's in the work force, file also?

I don't know what nationality you are, but do you have to give your bank some type of Tax Number in your home country?  Do the banks in your home country report large deposits to a government agency?  As I have said, you have to supply your TFN in Australia, and any transaction over $10,000AUD is reported.  If Thailand was to require the Thai banks to do the same, I wouldn't be shocked, and that's why I put it forward.  For all we know, the Thai government is looking at western banking / tax systems with a view to doing the same here. 

 

Call them proxies, or whatever, but you even say yourself the banks already withhold tax on Thai's, but given a lot of Thai's don't have savings, as mentioned, living hand to mouth, there's not much tax to withhold. 

 

Of course, immigration has nothing to do with Thai's.  I've used the word "enforcement" before but perhaps a better word may be a "requirement" to have an annual document from the TRD as part of your extension renewal.  Like I have said, you need a bank document showing 800k Thai baht.  They can easily add a document from the TRD to the list.  Remember the health insurance policy?  

 

To be honest, I'm not concerned about what they do to the Thai's as far as this tax policy is concerned.  They are Thai, and that's a matter for them at the next election. 

 

As foreigners, we are easy targets, and have no rights here.  I have never thought I have been, or should be, treated like a Thai here, particularly as Thailand offers no reasonable pathway to gaining permanent residency / citizenship. 

 

Can you clarify where you stand in regards to this policy?  Do you think the policy will be in force but nothing will happen?  Do you think they will try to get the policy working but it will be all too hard and they will repeal it?  Do you think the policy will remain but they will change it, significantly, in order to make it work?  Do you think foreigners will eventually have to pay tax on remitted funds? 

 

You are critical of what I have predicted the Thai government MAY do, but I am unclear of your view on the policy. 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, motdaeng said:

 

i would not underestimate the TRD. thailand is known for its bureaucratic processes, making life difficult for us foreigners ...

 

if the average retiree transfers approximately 100,000 thb per month to thailand. this amount would lead to around 120,000 thb in taxes. would that not be worthwhile for the TRD ...? and enforcing tax laws against foreigners would be more popular than doing so against the own thai citizens. 

 

only time will tell ... i'm also prepared to see a few u-turns on this issue ....

 

 

 

I agree. 

 

We are easy targets, with no votes lost, and there's another revenue stream just stilling there untapped.  The Thai's will turn a baht out of it, either officially, unofficially, or both.

 

For a country famous for military coups, nothing surprises me here.  I expect the unexpected. 

 

As I have said before, the policy is a mess, so I expect them to make up the rules on the fly.  It may even be different experiences, for different foreigners, living in different provinces.  Who knows?

 

We'll all get to see how it unfolds early 2025.  Maybe the policy will disappear, or maybe it will remain but will have no impact on expats.  I just suspect the Thai's have something up their sleeve in relation to this policy. 

[Screaming]

On 5/26/2024 at 11:30 AM, KannikaP said:

Which God please?

See skeptic's avatar and its your choice.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

But it's not "everyone the same way". Thais do not have tax on earned interest automatically withheld from their bank accounts. We foreigners now do...and this just started automatically (on us only), regardless of amount earned, a few years back. As you are certainly aware, previously it was only after the earned interest threshold was reached.

 

Furthermore...my response was to the statement that the poster was concerned Thailand would start taxing money already here in the bank. They already do. 

Your last statement is incorrect, they do not tax "money already here in the bank", they only tax interest that has been "earned".

It is a common practice in other countries to apply withholding tax where tax residency is in doubt. As already pointed out you are free to file a tax return and claim any over payment back.

I had to verify my tax residency before I could open an interest bearing account with Wise, maybe you would prefer that arrangement.

[Mike Lister]

9 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I don't know what nationality you are, but do you have to give your bank some type of Tax Number in your home country?  Do the banks in your home country report large deposits to a government agency?  As I have said, you have to supply your TFN in Australia, and any transaction over $10,000AUD is reported.  If Thailand was to require the Thai banks to do the same, I wouldn't be shocked, and that's why I put it forward.  For all we know, the Thai government is looking at western banking / tax systems with a view to doing the same here. 

 

Call them proxies, or whatever, but you even say yourself the banks already withhold tax on Thai's, but given a lot of Thai's don't have savings, as mentioned, living hand to mouth, there's not much tax to withhold. 

 

Of course, immigration has nothing to do with Thai's.  I've used the word "enforcement" before but perhaps a better word may be a "requirement" to have an annual document from the TRD as part of your extension renewal.  Like I have said, you need a bank document showing 800k Thai baht.  They can easily add a document from the TRD to the list.  Remember the health insurance policy?  

 

To be honest, I'm not concerned about what they do to the Thai's as far as this tax policy is concerned.  They are Thai, and that's a matter for them at the next election. 

 

As foreigners, we are easy targets, and have no rights here.  I have never thought I have been, or should be, treated like a Thai here, particularly as Thailand offers no reasonable pathway to gaining permanent residency / citizenship. 

 

Can you clarify where you stand in regards to this policy?  Do you think the policy will be in force but nothing will happen?  Do you think they will try to get the policy working but it will be all too hard and they will repeal it?  Do you think the policy will remain but they will change it, significantly, in order to make it work?  Do you think foreigners will eventually have to pay tax on remitted funds? 

 

You are critical of what I have predicted the Thai government MAY do, but I am unclear of your view on the policy. 

Most countries have to report deposits above a certain level, especially cash deposits. Those are money laundering laws, not tax based laws. 

 

If you would have read the tax guide that I wrote, you would have seen para 99 which reads thusly:

 

99) "It cannot be entirely ruled out that at some point, a link may be established between tax filings and visa extensions. A law already exists that requires foreigners to apply for Tax Clearance Certificates before being allowed to depart the country. The rule is not being enforced currently for a majority of visa types but it is in operation for some. These things are possible because similar things have been adopted in several countries in the past, including the US". 

 

I acknowledged the possibility that could happen in the future, but since it has never been mentioned in an official context, I haven't felt the need to mention it since. Many people are too focussed on what steps must be taken to make the tax rules work and haven't considered that very possibly, nothing much will be done at all. The Thai approach to rule enforcement is to allow organic growth over time. This may seem counter intuitive to Westerners who come from societes where efficiency and effectiveness have become art forms, but the pace of change here is very slow and we've seen this repeatedly. Coordination between government departments is also not great. If one department wants to implement change that requires the active cooperation of another department, nothing will happen quickly, if at all.

 

I have to keep coming back to the 89% of the workforce who don't file a tax return. If the Revenue wanted to tax income, that would be an obvious place to start and the return would be far greater because of the large volume of people involved. Whilst that is no easy task and has potential political ramifications, it is not impossible to think that some measures could be adopted periodically over time yet none have been, except the new offshore income rule tweak. In fact, the trend over the past two decades has been for successive governments to give back to the people using handouts, rather than to enforce taking from them by way of tax. 

 

Does the above mean that targeting the resident foreigner is more politically acceptable and easier? Possibly, but improbable I suggest, the bureaucratic complexity and the inefficiency of the bureaucracy, combined with the downside risk of losing foreigners who move away as a result are the main reasons why. 

 

As for using the banks as proxies to establish if overseas remittances are assessable or not: all the banks can do it to provide a list of overseas remittances for each of their customers, that ability exists today and is used by many people. But then what, the TRD is highly unlikely to ask foreign customers to state their tax residency status and state whether each of those remittances was assessable or not and prepare a report for the TRD to sign off on, in order to authorise Immigration to issue a visa.....goodness me, that's an exercise in futility if ever there was one.

 

My crystal ball tells me that nothing much will happen. There will be a significant increase in foreigners and Thai nationals filing tax returns in 1Q25 and reporting imported income but that will be because of momentum and news sharing in forums such as this. That increase alone may be sufficient for the TRD to consider the rule change a success and to do no more for a while. The fact is, TRD will be swamped and inundated with queries they are ill-equipped to handle.