British Pensioner Struggles with Frozen Pension in Thailand

[sabai-dee-man]

5 hours ago, freeworld said:

A lesson to all the digital nomads roaming about the world living in the present and not worrying about the future and retirement money and benefits.

 

You sound bitter. Jealous? I've been a "digital nomad" since before it was even a thing! I pay into a private pension. 

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, 10baht said:

What they want and what's morally right will not fill a tea cup.

And why do you think they care about what is morally right? 

[OldmanJ]

It's a very sad and disgusting day when the country you were born in and worked over 30+ years discards it's people like a common piece of #hit.

SHAME ON THE THOUGHTLESS UK GOVERNMENT AND OTHERS LIKE IT.

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, ChrisKC said:

I say nothing here that suggests she should have thought of THAT at any time in the past.

 

It wouldn't matter how much the pension was/is, her health situation and its associated costs couldn't possibly be met. Can't fairly say that is the UK Government's fault.

 

True, that it does seem unfair that the UK Government increased the NI contributions over the years and doesn't offer them back in reverse!

 

Some. countries, especially in Asia, as in Philippines, do get the annual increases in pension payments that I can tell you is 50% more that it was 15 years ago. For those in Philippines, a pension of GBP 500 per month would now be GBP 750

 

Anyone know what has happened since Brexit for expat pensioners in EU countries that were OK with increased payments previously?

As far as I am aware, UK pensioners living in any European country get the full increases.

[Caldera]

The idiocy of having nothing but a basic state pension and thinking that you're entitled to retire abroad.

 

Stay at home, where among other things, you have access to government-funded healthcare. Try to get health insurance in Thailand as a foreigner that age.

[Caldera]

Dupe

Edited June 1 by Caldera

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, roo860 said:

Isn't the new pension increase £898? For 35yrs contributions. 

If it is, I am being short changed, as I paid in for 50 years, as did many others of my age.

[sambum]

5 hours ago, sidneybear said:

That's sad. There's no reason, other than cruelty, for the British government to freeze overseas pensions of people who have paid National Insurance all their lives.

 

Yet the British Government can find room in the country for thousands of Immigrants who have contributed nothing to the system and get numerous benefits - 2024 figures up to now:-

"6,265 small boat arrivals compared to 5,049 in the same period last year, an increase of 24% together, Vietnamese (1,266) and Afghan (1,216) arrivals comprised 40% of the total arrivals in this period and are the top 2 nationalities arriving so far in 2024." (And that's just the "Illegals")

Figures for the "legals" are as follows:-

"In the twelve months to December 2023, approximately 1.22 million people migrated to the United Kingdom,............."

 

And the amount given by Britain in "Foreign Aid" in 2023:-

"In 2023, the UK provided £15.4 billion of Official Development Assistance (ODA). The ODA:GNI ratio for 2023 was 0.58%, compared to 0.51% in 20221."

 

And they can't afford to pay pensioners who live abroad the annual increments that the UK resident pensioners get?

 

SICKENING!!!

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by sambum

[Presto]

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

The idiocy of having nothing but a basic state pension and thinking that you're entitled to retire abroad.

 

Stay at home, where among other things, you have access to government-funded healthcare. Try to get health insurance in Thailand as a foreigner that age.

I can tell you what the health insurance at that age will cost in Thailand. Considerably more than 1 year of her UK state pension ...

Edited June 1 by Presto

[Nigeone]

53 minutes ago, freeworld said:

This is what asylum seekers are entitled to claim in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

 

This Daily Mail infogram shows what is affordable on different levels of pension

 

This is not close to being correct. I live in a particularly expensive part of Britain and my pension is just gone up to £14,500 and I manage really well. Had two 1 month holidays in Thailand last year including hire of car for duration and room rental . I can save and just been to Turkey for a week. I budget well mind and don’t have sky and the likes but pay all my outgoing for apartment comfortably . I own with no mortgage though. But single occupancy . 

[freeworld]

16 minutes ago, sabai-dee-man said:

 

You sound bitter. Jealous? I've been a "digital nomad" since before it was even a thing! I pay into a private pension. 

Nope, not jealous, just pointing out a fact for the many digital nomads or travellers running around the world as something that should be considered. I assume many have not thought it through as you.

 

My home country pension is means tested, ie over a certain amount in savings or home ownership value one gets nothing from govt. Also any govt payment is only within the country, move abroad and one gets nothing. Fortunately took care during my working life to make adequate provision.

Edited June 1 by freeworld

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, renaissanc said:

Why are so many people posting such uncompassionate comments? It happens every time there is an article about someone in difficulty. Are you so unhappy and angry with life that you cannot do otherwise? Are your lives really barren of love and kindness?

Love and kindness! Who are they?

[Blueman1]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

We all know how unfair the system is, but Thailand does not have a treaty with the UK like the Philippines. If she returns to the UK, her pension will be updated to the current level, which begs the question: If she left again in six months, would she keep the new rate here?

 If she returns to the UK, her pension will be updated to the current level, which begs the question: If she left again in six months, would she keep the new rate here?.....I Got 2 DIFFERENT Answers from the DWP....I'll let YOU guess !!

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, nickmondo said:

You only have to look at the Brexit voters to confirm that statement.

Thats fighting talk where I come from. Just as well I don't come from there anymore!😏

[freeworld]

6 minutes ago, Nigeone said:

This is not close to being correct. I live in a particularly expensive part of Britain and my pension is just gone up to £14,500 and I manage really well. Had two 1 month holidays in Thailand last year including hire of car for duration and room rental . I can save and just been to Turkey for a week. I budget well mind and don’t have sky and the likes but pay all my outgoing for apartment comfortably . I own with no mortgage though. But single occupancy . 

Well done, shows it is possible.

[Georgealbert]

22 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

Thanks for the history-----I haven't read every single post--so if been already sorry.

 

What reciprocal agreement does The Philippines have with the UK which allows Brits living there to get updated pensions.????? 

Sorry not clear on the full details, as have never looked at, as no interest in living in the Phillippines. 
 

The legislation I believe is in ”The Social Security (Philippines) Order 1989”, linked below,

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/2002/contents

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, Asquith Production said:

The U. K. Government operate a discrimination policy based on your address 

That sounds very much like a post code lottery?

[Cabradelmar]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Such a well thought out suggestion...ask the airline that would be responsible for her.  Incapacitated passengers are not allowed to fly without someone with them to act as their carer.

When I said have the son escort her though the airport, I was referring to the entire trip (end to end), though to final destination. May all be moot if her condition is respiratory or heart related and it's dangerous for her to fly.

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is no reason, or you don't want to see the obvious reason?

a) If she spends the money in the UK then this is part of the UK economy.

b) If she spends money in Thailand the money is lost for the UK.

Why should the UK government support b)?

But the UK government are ok with a version of b) in USA, Philippines etc. That is the "obvious reason" why this form of apartheid must be struck from the Statute Book.

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is no reason, or you don't want to see the obvious reason?

a) If she spends the money in the UK then this is part of the UK economy.

b) If she spends money in Thailand the money is lost for the UK.

Why should the UK government support b)?

But the UK government are ok with a version of b) in USA, Philippines etc. That is the "obvious reason" why this form of apartheid must be struck from the Statute Book.

[rocketboy2]

5 hours ago, freeworld said:

A lesson to all the digital nomads roaming about the world living in the present and not worrying about the future and retirement money and benefits.

 

All but a few will be out of work in 10 years time, if not sooner.

a Bot / Algorithm will replace them all, as AI will rule the online workIing environment.

And by that time,  they will have bugger all in the bank and no home.

Go there digital nomads, enjoy the sun, as it will not shine on you for ever. 

wasters. 

[10baht]

23 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And why do you think they care about what is morally right?

Obviously not or they would not be socialists.

[roo860]

14 minutes ago, Surasak said:

If it is, I am being short changed, as I paid in for 50 years, as did many others of my age.

Isn't 35yrs contributions the maximum, it seems like anyone born after 1951 and has 35yrs contributions that's what it is for the £898 pension. Have you contacted the DWP?

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is no reason, or you don't want to see the obvious reason?

a) If she spends the money in the UK then this is part of the UK economy.

b) If she spends money in Thailand the money is lost for the UK.

Why should the UK government support b)?

 

 

I paid into the UK National Insurance all my working life.

 

Living permanently in Thailand I make no demands on, inter-alia, the NHS.

 

My UK pension has been frozen on £300 per month since 1993, and is paid and spent in the UK by way of birthday gifts to young relatives etc.

 

Question is what has the UK govt done with the contributions I made for over 50 years ?

 

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

We all know how unfair the system is, but Thailand does not have a treaty with the UK like the Philippines. If she returns to the UK, her pension will be updated to the current level, which begs the question: If she left again in six months, would she keep the new rate here?

The simple answer to that is NO. If the DWP know you have left the country after a pension upgrade, they will reduce it to the previous payment.

[Georgealbert]

33 minutes ago, khunjeff said:

 

I've read this a few times before, but I still don't understand it. I'm not British, so I have no background other than what I've seen in the media.

 

So, could someone explain this idea to me like I was five years old? Why would a payment which comes entirely from the UK government, and is based on contributions to the UK pension system made while working in the UK, have any "reciprocity" angle at all? Why would any foreign country have to sign off on UK citizens getting increased payments from the UK? What exactly is "reciprocal" here? 

I asked AI to help explain, so hope this helps.

 

“UK pension reciprocal agreements, also known as social security agreements, are bilateral agreements between the UK and other countries that coordinate the social security and pension systems of the respective countries. These agreements are designed to ensure that individuals who have lived or worked in more than one country can receive social security benefits, including state pensions, without being disadvantaged by their international mobility.

 

Key features of UK pension reciprocal agreements include:

 

1. “Aggregation of Contributions”: These agreements allow individuals to combine their periods of contributions or credits in both countries to qualify for benefits. This means that even if a person hasn’t contributed enough to qualify for a full pension in one country, their contributions in another country can help them meet the eligibility criteria.

 

2. “Pro-Rata Benefits”: If a person has contributed to the social security systems of both countries, they may receive a proportional pension from each country based on the length of their contributions in each country.

 

3. “Avoidance of Double Contributions”: The agreements prevent individuals and employers from having to pay social security contributions in both countries simultaneously for the same work, thus avoiding double payments.

 

4. “Export of Benefits”  Individuals can receive their UK state pension even if they live in a country with which the UK has a reciprocal agreement. Similarly, they can receive social security benefits from the other country while residing in the UK.

 

5. “Coverage”: These agreements typically cover a range of social security benefits, including old-age pensions, disability pensions, and survivor’s benefits, among others.

 

6. “Eligibility and Claims”: The agreements outline the eligibility criteria and the process for claiming benefits from both countries. They provide clarity on how benefits are calculated and paid, ensuring that individuals receive their entitlements smoothly.

 

These agreements are crucial for expatriates, migrants, and international workers, helping them to secure their pension rights and other social security benefits despite their international mobility.”

[OneMoreFarang]

2 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Question is what has the UK govt done with the contributions I made for over 50 years ?

What did you expect?

That they invest it for you can give it back to you with interest? 555 

 

[sambum]

18 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

 If she returns to the UK, her pension will be updated to the current level, which begs the question: If she left again in six months, would she keep the new rate here?.....I Got 2 DIFFERENT Answers from the DWP....I'll let YOU guess !!

 

I'll guess that it all depends on whether she tells them that she's moved again!

[Mike Teavee]

6 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Question is what has the UK govt done with the contributions I made for over 50 years ?

There is no “Pot of Monry”, your contributions were used to pay Pensions for people who retired while you were working & People who are working/contributing today are paying your pension  

[Red Forever]

3 hours ago, Homburg said:

Much of the pension money paid by UK government to pensioners resident in the UK is recovered through taxes paid by the pensioners in the UK.  These taxes are recovered through a variety of means - Council Tax, VAT, fuel taxes, IPT, taxes on the businesses that pensioners buy from (including supermarkets), etc.  These taxes cannot be recovered for non-resident pensioners who therefore cost the government more than resident pensioners, so the government "freezes" these pensions in order to compensate.

Absolute cobblers!

Expat UK pensioners do not use the NHS, police, fire service, libraries, street lighting, roads, magistrate courts, free buses.... I could go on.