What will you do if global taxes would be approved?

[Middle Aged Grouch]

I would pack up and leave to any other Asian country or even India where there are some fine beaches in the South. Much more simple also for visas and foreigners are treated better.

[JimTripper]

O-A Visa. No Thai Bank account. Saying nothing. 🙏

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

At present, I have no idea.

Maybe a tax credit could be had, but how that will all work I don't know. also incompatible tax years start and end. Thai / Uk. an accounting pain, I think.

To many, maybe, could be, might be, at present for me to care right now.

I reckon this will all be a massive cluster duck, I'm not going to go into panic mode in Thailand.

Yet. I am waiting and watching.

 

 

 

Tax credit can certainly be applied if you are taxed in UK on this, but there is also a chance the wording of the UK-Thai DTA gives UK and not Thailand right to tax rental incomes from UK sources.

 

Absolutely essential to read your DTA.  Watching and waiting will nto tell you what is in it, and reports from people of different nationality and/or different financial position may not apply.

[NoDisplayName]

Hmmmm...................

 

$0 tax due in the US following IRS policies, but assessable income would result in approximately $10,000 tax bill in Thailand.

Every..........year.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

27 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Tax credit can certainly be applied if you are taxed in UK on this, but there is also a chance the wording of the UK-Thai DTA gives UK and not Thailand right to tax rental incomes from UK sources.

 

Absolutely essential to read your DTA.  Watching and waiting will nto tell you what is in it, and reports from people of different nationality and/or different financial position may not apply.

IIRC (It's been a few months since I looked at this), Thailand has primary taxing rights on UK Rental Income & whilst you might be able to use any tax paid in Thailand to offset against what you pay in the UK, there could be a couple of things that mean you end up paying more tax overall:-

1. UK Taxes you on your net income after all expenses, Thailand doesn't seem to allow you all of the same expenses (e.g. in the UK you can offset a certain % for maintenance whether you pay it out or not)
2. If (Like me) you don't pay tax on your rental income as it falls under your Personal Taxation Allowance there will be nothing to offset the Thai Taxes against. 

Again, it's been at least 3 months since I went through the UK-TH DTA so I may have misremembered what I worked out at that time, I just know that I worked out that there was a good chance I was going to have to pay tax on it if I remitted it to Thailand so decided I wasn't going to bring it over. 

Edited June 7 by Mike Teavee
Reworded the point about expenses

[ChaiyaTH]

53 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I wish the OP poll had had an option for "wait and see," because that's what I would have chosen.

The poll is about what you will do IF they approve it, that could be in just weeks from now at the worst case. This is a tax amendment or whatever right, so it will not be taking that long at all, as long everyone internally agrees. For sure we will know within months.

 

All this has direct potential impact, big time, it's like we are on the brink of war but then without the violence. They shouldn't have said a word until it was also definitive right away but that's too late now. The fact they flip flop so much, makes it unattractive to think of long-term in the first place. 

Even they did not do it right now, there is now forever that possibility they change it with the blink of an eye. Same as with weed. Same as with visa's where you suddenly need 400K proof, even the visa is designed to stay only 3 months minimum. And so the list goes on and on, there is a limit, for everyone.

Edited June 7 by ChaiyaTH

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

The poll is about what you will do IF they approve it, that could be in just weeks from now at the worst case. This is a tax amendment or whatever right, so it will not be taking that long at all, as long everyone internally agrees. For sure we will know within months.

 

All this has direct potential impact, big time, it's like we are on the brink of war but then without the violence. They shouldn't have said a word until it was also definitive right away but that's too late now.

 

What are the odds it will be approved and announced on the 181st day of the year?

[ChaiyaTH]

7 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

What are the odds it will be approved and announced on the 181st day of the year?

LOL well logically the new worldwide thing would then start from january 1st 2025. That's why i think they will act and reply fast with the answer as well. It all makes sense from the perspective of these traditional richer thais too, they don't like us long stayers at all. Just want tourist come spend and go. It's like checkmate.

 

And all those easy visa offerings suddenly, it was waayyy too dodgy to begin with. I think that is a plan by design with above. Let's hope I am wrong.

Edited June 7 by ChaiyaTH

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, ChaiyaTH said:

LOL well logically the new worldwide thing would then start from january 1st 2025. That's why i think they will act and reply fast with the answer as well. It all makes sense from the perspective of these traditional richer thais too, they don't like us long stayers at all. Just want tourist come spend and go.

 

Start January 1st, 2025?

So anyone that's been here from the beginning of the year thru June 29, 2024 (day 181) will owe tax due March 2025.

You have 3 weeks to make your escape.

[ChaiyaTH]

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Start January 1st, 2025?

So anyone that's been here from the beginning of the year thru June 29, 2024 (day 181) will owe tax due March 2025.

You have 3 weeks to make your escape.

No, i mean it starts counting from january 1st 2025 obviously, so your first filing would be in 2026. This is from a logical point of view. The first filing for what you remit to Thailand would already be filed in 2025.

Edited June 7 by ChaiyaTH

[Sheryl]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

 

Start January 1st, 2025?

So anyone that's been here from the beginning of the year thru June 29, 2024 (day 181) will owe tax due March 2025.

You have 3 weeks to make your escape.

 

No, he meant start effective the 2025 tax year. Taxes on that would be due March 2026.

 

And that assumes it not only goes through, but is enacted within 2024. It is a revision to the actual tax law so a bigger change that the last change on remittance was and will take time.

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

No, he meant start effective the 2025 tax year. Taxes on that would be due March 2026.

 

And that assumes it not only goes through, but is enacted within 2024. It is a revision to the actual tax law so a bigger change that the last change on remittance was and will take time.

Yeah your right, after I wrote that I already thought, likely even it starts from 2026, as this is a big thing. But then again, once knowing it, it is basically already better to move on with life too. I would hate it more if it starts later, that brings even more uncertainty over decisions made, as of flip flop Thailand.

 

But if you read the Thai stories about it, they seem to have been working on all this already much longer, together with the first change and using AI. So i think it will really not be that long before we know more. They better let us know, to be in the dark sucks most, like now.

Edited June 7 by ChaiyaTH

[MartinL]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I wish the OP poll had had an option for "wait and see," because that's what I would have chosen.

 

<snip>

 

#3. I've lived in the same rented home here for many years with my Thai wife, who has a good job in Thailand. In our situation, I'm struggling to see how I could possibly do the less than 6 months in country approach, especially since I haven't kept a 2nd home back in my home country, and I'm not going to abandon my wife over taxes.

 

That said, if they really go thru with the current plan, it might well hasten us to both relocate back to my home country.  Too many unknowns right now, as usual....

 

 

Your Option 3 resonates with me, especially the " ... not going to abandon my wife over taxes ... " bit.

 

I'm 70, my wife's 68. Relocating to another country just isn't on - we have grandchildren we'd both miss far too much. In addition, I think my wife might lose her government pension if moving abroad, although that's only a guess. 

 

If Thailand taxed all my income, all of which is tax-paid in UK, minus the frequently-mentioned 60k/190k/150k฿ allowances and exemptions (I've not forgotten about the supposed additional 100k฿ 'expenses' but I'm just not convinced by that one) and ignored any possible tax credits or whatever, it'd amount to about 2 weeks income at current FX rates. It'd also be about a month of my wife's pension. I'm not going to throw away my family life here, which I love (Thailand itself, not so much), over a few baht. Of course I'd prefer not to pay Thai income tax but if the choice is 'tax' or 'wife', wife wins hands down of course.

 

"Wait and see" would be a good poll choice but, in practical terms, I'm just going to swallow all this TRD ehist (rearrange) and get on with life. It helps A LOT that my financial situation is a fairly simple one.

Edited June 7 by MartinL

[AreYouGerman]

'Global' as in:

 

[ChaiyaTH]

So far around 45% says to be leaving, that would automatically mean many places become dull too, and many expat businesses close down more too, and then automatically more retirees leave as a consequence of that. Then to keep in mind many people here are retired and likely not or minimal affected by taxes in the first place.

Seems to me then that for the working generation it easily is 75% who will leave.

[SingAPorn]

Same for me, will leave with the exception that will spend the less then 180 days,  in Vietnam and Malaysia instead during winter.

[rocketboy2]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Tax credit can certainly be applied if you are taxed in UK on this, but there is also a chance the wording of the UK-Thai DTA gives UK and not Thailand right to tax rental incomes from UK sources.

 

Absolutely essential to read your DTA.  Watching and waiting will nto tell you what is in it, and reports from people of different nationality and/or different financial position may not apply.

 

Well , please just get on with what you want to do.

and, I will do as I please.

I don't require your advice. yawn.

 

 

[JohnnyBD]

9 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Check out the poll, let's keep it real and friendly! For me, for now it seems it will be: I will change to only stay here for 180 days per year but potentially leaving entirely as it is just a hassle moving back and forward.

I believe you would need to stay less than 180 days not to be a tax resident. If you stay 180 days or more, I believe you would be a tax resident. I will stay less than 180 days if this comes to pass.

Edited June 7 by JohnnyBD

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

No, he meant start effective the 2025 tax year. Taxes on that would be due March 2026.

 

And that assumes it not only goes through, but is enacted within 2024. It is a revision to the actual tax law so a bigger change that the last change on remittance was and will take time.

 

 

 

That's a relief, albeit temporarily.

 

I was under the impression that if approved, it would take effect in January 2025, with tax returns due March 2025......meaning 2024 income would be assessable. 

 

So it's the assessability that begins Jan 2025, with first tax return and payment of worldwide income March 2026.

 

That gives us until end of next June to effectively "bug out."

 

Does this mean that the pending rule change on taxing remitted funds  will be in effect for about a year until the global income supersedes it?

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by NoDisplayName

[Lorry]

Wait and see, and as long as I wait and see I will only stay here 179 days per year.

Like Sheryl, I wouldn't have much taxes to pay, but I don't fancy another bureaucracy.  Immigration,  DLT, banks and airlines are enough. 

And anyway, 4 months per year I have to be out of Thailand anyway,  because I like to breathe air. So I just make it 6 months abroad. 

 

[bg53]

26 minutes ago, Lorry said:

 because I like to breathe air. So I just make it 6 months abroad. 

 

 

So true. The extended "smoke season" and now the tax residency crap make it a double whammy.

[CashMoon]

I shared a post about the tax issue in the Facebook group and my inbox was flooded with people offering to hand over cash in exchange for crypto. I think a new illegitimate sector is emerging. 

[rocketboy2]

28 minutes ago, CashMoon said:

I shared a post about the tax issue in the Facebook group and my inbox was flooded with people offering to hand over cash in exchange for crypto. I think a new illegitimate sector is emerging. 

Panic setting in.

 

 

Edited June 8 by rocketboy2

[Ben Zioner]

11 hours ago, AreYouGerman said:

'Global' as in:

 

Something I am proud of...

[EVENKEEL]

10 minutes ago, rocketboy2 said:

Panic setting in.

 

In comparison - A foreigner here in Thailand doesn't renew his extension, stops the 90 day reports and is officially overstaying. What happens? A big nothing. Now to me it seems easily doable for the authorities to have a list of overstayers and pursue said overstayer. Do they? A big no. 

 

 But, the tax people are so organized they will track down a retiree and tax them, not only on the money they bring into country but money made in their home country. Now, I'm sure there are some huge money foreigners who do business in Thailand who probably should do some damage control but for the masses of retirees here I wouldn't sweat it. 

[bg53]

24 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

In comparison - A foreigner here in Thailand doesn't renew his extension, stops the 90 day reports and is officially overstaying. What happens? A big nothing.

 

..... but for the masses of retirees here I wouldn't sweat it. 

 

Overstayers actively evade detection.

 

The masses of retirees are law-abiding and have to faithfully turn up at immigration. Easy targets in comparison.

 

 

[Presnock]

19 hours ago, ChaiyaTH said:

Guess i should have defined the ''I will stay and not pay taxes too.'' option better, not sure if people mean with this they don't have to pay anyways, or they simply refuse to pay.

What I meant was - not having all the finals of these local financial wizards and what they have decided they will do with ALL of the expat situations, it is difficult to make a decision affecting one's life.  If they decided to change laws, cancel treaties with 61 countries Or  mine anyway, and cancel visa benefits (what there are) , then I  might just leave too and take my family with me or not BUT I could definitely cease

to be a Thai tax resident.  Good luck to all of us

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, bg53 said:

Methinks the Thai government has severely underestimated the wide options available for capital and revenue to find a new home.

Well to me it appears that too many of the new office sitters/bosses are being told to search every nook and cranny to find any baht whatsoever as the coffers have been found to be emptied on useless for the citizens (i.e.war machines, free money, etc) and these folks just have no idea of what they are doing nor what that office is really responsible for.  I liken it to the US where those elected are selected by the $$$ folks and businesses that just want more money from the masses.  That is very obvious here right now.  The military govt made their purchases from foreign countries and now the current govt wants to tax the expats from all those foreign nations.  We are an easy target for all as we have no real standing in this country.  That is obvious by the visas they sell to us and their cries for "more tourist dollars" every

year since they then don't have to produce anything except the collection from the foreigners.  I think that I am safe from these two latest plans to change tax laws here but then again TIT and who knows what the next scheme might bring...hell, we don't even know that these two really could look like until the RD puts out the final paper on whichever or both of these two programs.  Good luck to all.

[Presnock]

14 hours ago, rocketboy2 said:

 

Not missed the point at all.

I'm just waiting to see what happens.

I have rental income from the uk, I will still wait and see what comes 

if I'm late or miss filling a tax return in Thailand, so be it. new rules or even newer rule that may come.

I'm not running into the revenue office with money in hand.

Some will, that's for sure.

 

 

totally agree, we do not have the slightest idea what will come out in the final paper on these two programs nor if there will be even more schemes to get every baht they can from the expats since they are such an easy target.  My opinion only of course and I do wish all of us good luck in whatever comes out finally.

[ChaiyaTH]

13 hours ago, JimTripper said:

O-A Visa. No Thai Bank account. Saying nothing. 🙏

They would simply catch you in that case + you now commit a criminal offense + deported Thailand.