What will you do if global taxes would be approved?

[MangoKorat]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Rent for a while

I bought my house 9 years ago.

 

8 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Retire and come to Thailand when you want to.

No intention of retiring.

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I bought my house 9 years ago.

 

No intention of retiring.

I read your post about that.  

 

Not supposed to be "working" on a retirement visa, in any country, but yes, many ways around that.

 

I would leave my money outside Thailand and sit back and wait to see what happens early 2025, but it's your money, and your decision.  Good Luck.

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not supposed to be "working" on a retirement visa, in any country, but yes, many ways around that.

 

I would leave my money outside Thailand and sit back and wait to see what happens early 2025, but it's your money, and your decision.  Good Luck.

I have no intention of working on a retirement visa, what gave you that impression?

 

I can't start a business without bringing funds in so I'll be sticking to my plans and remitting this year before I'm tax resident. That's covered by current the regulations so I'm fine.  Waiting unti 2025 could leave me open to any further changes there may be.

[KhunHeineken]

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I have no intention of working on a retirement visa, what gave you that impression?

 

These are your words:

 

"I also have no intention of retiring as I believe its 'the kiss of death'.  So my plan has always been to start a business in Thailand which will hopefully provide me with a reasonable income until I snuff it. It should also keep me active when I reach 'old age' 😁. There is no way on this planet I would ever 'retire' to Thailand and sit in a bar every day or spend my days hitting a small ball around with a stick - and then go to the bar."

 

I guess you will be going down the company / work permit route.  More money to pay.  More bureaucracy. Probably more tax and fees to pay.  Your call.  Good Luck. 

 

6 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I can't start a business without bringing funds in so I'll be sticking to my plans and remitting this year before I'm tax resident. That's covered by current the regulations so I'm fine.  Waiting unti 2025 could leave me open to any further changes there may be.

Once again, why the hurry? You never answered that?

 

It could leave you open, or, thankful you never did, thus, absolutely zero to pay until you see how all this unfolds.  Such is Thailand. 

 

I never gamble with Thailand, because they hold always hold all the aces here, one way, or another. 

 

Once again, Good Luck.  I just don't see the hurry, particularly in what could be a declining market, if these tax/s come are enforced. 

[MangoKorat]

On 6/10/2024 at 5:56 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Thailand is not stable, so one can never "future proof" themselves here.  One example of this is Thailand offers no reasonable pathway to permanent residency and / or citizenship, so you will never have a "right" to live in Thailand, just a visa giving you permission to live in Thailand, which can be revoke, either individually or collectively, or the requirements change, or the duration changed etc etc. 

That is something that I worried about many years ago - the fact that I would always be a guest.  At that time, some rules around visa/extensions had just changed, can't rember exactly what it was but it created some consternation amongst the expat community.  Some high ranking Immigration Official was on record as saying that if expats didn't like it, they were free to go home and take their Thai wives with them.

 

As a 'newbie' I thought it was the 'grim reality' of living in Thailand but the old hands assured me that nothing much would change and to just ride it out.  Now, possibly 15 to 20 years or so later, they were correct.

[MangoKorat]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

I guess you will be going down the company / work permit route.  More money to pay.  More bureaucracy. Probably more tax and fees to pay.  Your call.  Good Luck. 

From what I can tell, the total costs of running a company in Thailand will be less - the tax certainly is. But yes, their will be forms to fill.

 

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"I also have no intention of retiring as I believe its 'the kiss of death'.  So my plan has always been to start a business in Thailand which will hopefully provide me with a reasonable income until I snuff it. It should also keep me active when I reach 'old age' 😁. There is no way on this planet I would ever 'retire' to Thailand and sit in a bar every day or spend my days hitting a small ball around with a stick - and then go to the bar."

Precisely - no intention of retiring.

 

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Once again, why the hurry? You never answered that?

Not really a hurry - this has, as I said earlier, been planned since 2009. None of us lives forever.

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It could leave you open, or, thankful you never did, thus, absolutely zero to pay until you see how all this unfolds.  Such is Thailand. 

I don't see how.  Under the current rules, I can bring cash in tax free as long as I don't become tax resident. Hence, I bring it in later this year, have a short break and become tax resident next year.

[KhunHeineken]

28 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

That is something that I worried about many years ago - the fact that I would always be a guest. 

Nothing has changed since then.  Why "dumb it down?"  The Thai laws are the same as back then.  I have never subscribed to the "everyone else is doing it" ideology here. 

 

28 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Some high ranking Immigration Official was on record as saying that if expats didn't like it, they were free to go home and take their Thai wives with them.

I'm sure the same sentiment exists. 

 

28 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

As a 'newbie' I thought it was the 'grim reality' of living in Thailand but the old hands assured me that nothing much would change and to just ride it out. 

I'm not an "old hand" but I'm suggesting you "ride it out" until early 2025, but it's your money, and your call.

 

28 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Now, possibly 15 to 20 years or so later, they were correct.

That's Thailand. 

 

You can be correct for 15 years and feeling comfortable, then they change the laws, have a crackdown etc etc. 

 

I, and many others, have always thought the day is coming for those using Thai nominees for their property ownership.  Yes, yes, I know, the Thai's would never do that, they would lose money, blah, blah blah, until you wake up one day and they have done it. 

 

Thailand is unstable, and foreigners have no rights here.  Why roll the dice with Thailand? 

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

From what I can tell, the total costs of running a company in Thailand will be less - the tax certainly is. But yes, their will be forms to fill.

The "forms" will be the least of your problems. 

 

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Precisely - no intention of retiring.

So, that means some income tax as well.  Did you factor that in?

 

8 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Not really a hurry - this has, as I said earlier, been planned since 2009. None of us lives forever.

If since 2009, what's another 6 months?

 

8 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I don't see how.  Under the current rules, I can bring cash in tax free as long as I don't become tax resident. Hence, I bring it in later this year, have a short break and become tax resident next year.

You answered your own question. 

 

"Under the current rules."  Can you guarantee me the "current rules" will be "current" and applicable going forward?  No, I didn't think so. 

 

Don't look at me to reaffirm the decision you have already made.  It's your money, it's your call. Good Luck with it. 

[MangoKorat]

16 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"Under the current rules."  Can you guarantee me the "current rules" will be "current" and applicable going forward?  No, I didn't think so. 

No I can't but they can't change rules retrospectively or the Thai population would be up in arms. Changes normally take place from the beginning of a tax year.  Hence I will bring my cash in whilst it can be done tax free. I'm not going to risk things changing and possibly having to pay tax on money I bring in.

 

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The "forms" will be the least of your problems. 

 

Having been involved with the country for a long time, I know several people who run businesses in Thailand so I'm aware of what's involved. There are hoops to jump through but only one of the people I know has problems and when you get to the bottom of them, they are all his own doing because he spends all his time trying to get around the rules. He complains about having to pay social security for his Thai staff - all Thai companies have to do that. He tries to get out of paying income tax by underdeclaring his income then wonders why it isn't sufficient to support his visa etc. etc.

 

If I couldn't make a business work, then I would retire and find some other way of keeping myself busy.  Fortunately the main expenses for the business I have planned are in in assets that I can readily sell on.  Losses will be minimal.

 

31 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Don't look at me to reaffirm the decision you have already made.

 

I'm not, I'm simply answering your suggestions.

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

No I can't but they can't change rules retrospectively or the Thai population would be up in arms.

Seriously, wake up.  The Thai population are used to being screwed over, and most are happy when foreigners get even more screwed over. 

 

4 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Changes normally take place from the beginning of a tax year.  Hence I will bring my cash in whilst it can be done tax free. I'm not going to risk things changing and possibly having to pay tax on money I bring in.

You are bringing in money for a business that MAY have a declining market.  Also, who knows what the Thai government will do next year?  Geez, the military may even be back in power next year. 

 

7 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Having been involved with the country for a long time, I know several people who run businesses in Thailand so I'm aware of what's involved. There are hoops to jump through but only one of the people I know has problems and when you get to the bottom of them, they are all his own doing because he spends all his time trying to get around the rules. He complains about having to pay social security for his Thai staff - all Thai companies have to do that. He tries to get out of paying income tax by underdeclaring his income then wonders why it isn't sufficient to support his visa etc. etc.

 

If I couldn't make a business work, then I would retire and find some other way of keeping myself busy.  Fortunately the main expenses for the business I have planned are in in assets that I can readily sell on.  Losses will be minimal.

Why do you continually look for conformation of your decision?  You've already made up your mind.  Just do it.  It's your money to risk, not mine.  

 

"If I couldn't make a business work, then I would retire."  You have contradicted yourself.  You said you would never retire. now you say you would.  Which one is is?  Do you really need the grief dealing with the Thai bureaucracy for less money than the start up costs invested back in your home country?  I can think of many cheaper and easier hobbies.

 

12 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I'm not, I'm simply answering your suggestions.

So do it.  Bring the money in.  Start a business.  Put money into Thailand when many are considering pulling money out of Thailand.  Don't let some taxes stand in the way of your dream.   

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"If I couldn't make a business work, then I would retire."  You have contradicted yourself.  You said you would never retire. now you say you would.  Which one is is? 

Well if I couldn't make a business work, I wouldn't have much choice would I. I would keep myself busy though.

 

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why do you continually look for conformation of your decision?

I don't. Doing your homework before you start a business is just good practice.

 

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Don't let some taxes stand in the way of your dream.

There is no tax. I also contacted a friend who works as a taxation specialist with Deloitte in Bangkok. She advised me that no changes will be made to the tax system retrospectively - its never been done. So once my money is in, tax free - it remains tax free.

 

9 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Seriously, wake up.  The Thai population are used to being screwed over, and most are happy when foreigners get even more screwed over. 

 

They may screw over the general population but I very much doubt they'd dare to screw over the 'high rollers' in Thailand (and probably themselves) who'd be seriously affected by any retrospective changes.

 

In looking for comparisons, the Thai government have often 'grandfathered' new rules for existing residents - such as the income requirements for extensions of stay.

 

With the greatest of respect, there is a general presumption worldwide against introducing any new rules on anything retrospectively unless there is compelling justification. Any attempt to do so regarding tax rules would almost certainly be challenged in the courts. I don't think I need to 'wake up' - I'm very aware of how Thailand works. I've used the courts in Thailand and contrary to popular belief, I found I was treated very fairly. There's often a 'back story' to those who claim otherwise.