How will it end?

[tgw]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still with the insults. Are you incapable of posting without the insults or attacks on other posters?

Have I posted any insults about you? I have not, despite your insults to me.

 

calling you a "sophist" is pretty flattering in my opinion.

[tgw]

On 7/6/2024 at 1:54 PM, BobBKK said:

 Russia has won

 

I have been hearing this from several coordinated Ruzzian propaganda sources for some days now, coinciding with Putin redoubling his efforts in begging for peace yet with unacceptable terms and sending his errand oy Orban back and forth. Pretty much looks like panic is slowly beginning to set in on the Ruzzian side.

Edited July 7 by tgw

[ChicagoExpat]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still with the insults. Are you incapable of posting without the insults or attacks on other posters?

Have I posted any insults about you? I have not, despite your insults to me.

Did I insult you?  A sophist is someone who argues in bad faith, which I and probably most people here believe you do.  It's not an insult but rather a description of how you argue.   So, no, I did not insult you.  But, again, I will never cease to be amused that you and Bob -- the two foremost proponents of a war that has cost the lives of 100s of thousands, waged by a regime that provides zero human rights to its own citizens, that has kidnapped thousands of children, the list goes on and on -- cry so quickly when your feelings are hurt.

 

To answer your other question in another post:  1) Bob and thaibeach argue for months that Russia's invasion is a good thing and enthusiastically support it 2) people with a moral compass point this out 3) Bob and thaibeach cry that this isn't true and that it hurts their feelings... but then say they don't have to prove anything, we just have to believe them 4) and then keep crying that everyone thinks they're fascists.

 

See the problem here?  Fascist is as fascist does, thaibeach.

 

Have you insulted me?  Many times, including in a post that is on page 10.  Again, I don't care.  Insult me all you want.

Edited July 8 by ChicagoExpat

[rabas]

On 7/6/2024 at 8:41 AM, Gweiloman said:

Only a western imperialistic mind could have come up with such a hypocritical post.

 

But for the last 1000 years, Vietnam successfully retained its sovereignty in spite of Chinese aggression and a few wars.

 

Vietnam became a French colony in 1877 with the founding of French Indochina, which included Tonkin, Annam, Cochin China and Cambodia. (Laos was added in 1893.) The French lost control of their colony briefly during World War II when Japanese troops occupied Vietnam

 

It’s also interesting that the wests’ major ally in Asia is another well known imperialistic nation, probably the only one.

 

It's not about hope. it's about defending family, home, and culture,

 

The political impact of colonialism led to persecution, and imprisonment of those who opposed the French colonial regime. The cultural impact of colonialism introduced Western culture to Vietnam, resulting in the decline of traditional cultural practices and values.

 

Hypocrisy, anyone?

 

You ignore my entire point! A thousand year China-Vietnam neighbor relationship strongly parallels that of neighboring Russia and Ukraine.

 

true, Vietnam was briefly a French protectorate...  No. Wait!  France never bordered Vietnam, it's 10,000km away.  Moreover, imperial Vietnam and its rulers existed in parallel with the French protectorate, in fact outlasted it.
 
So your Western whatabout soundbite fails. 

 

FYI, 'Annam' is a derogatory Chinese term meaning pacified (conquered) south still used widely in China. But if you go to Vietnam and say Annam, you might loose a few teeth. Russia's brutal invasion of Ukraine has also caused deep, long lasting  bitter feelings, which motivate Ukrainians to fight against unmotivated Russian counterparts. 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:06 PM, Gweiloman said:

As Kissinger supposedly once said, “to be America’s enemy is dangerous, to be America’s ally is fatal”. Lindsey Graham considers this money well spent..

Gweiloman, let me supply the context -- wonderfully, it actually supports continuing to help.  The first part needs no explanation; the second part was a warning about America allowing an ally to fall to an authoritarian enemy after a period of American support.  As true today as it was 50 years ago.

 

The enemies of fascism thank you for your pro-freedom posting.

[BobBKK]

6 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Did I insult you?  A sophist is someone who argues in bad faith, which I and probably most people here believe you do.  It's not an insult but rather a description of how you argue.   So, no, I did not insult you.  But, again, I will never cease to be amused that you and Bob -- the two foremost proponents of a war that has cost the lives of 100s of thousands, waged by a regime that provides zero human rights to its own citizens, that has kidnapped thousands of children, the list goes on and on -- cry so quickly when your feelings are hurt.

 

To answer your other question in another post:  1) Bob and thaibeach argue for months that Russia's invasion is a good thing and enthusiastically support it 2) people with a moral compass point this out 3) Bob and thaibeach cry that this isn't true and that it hurts their feelings... but then say they don't have to prove anything, we just have to believe them 4) and then keep crying that everyone thinks they're fascists.

 

See the problem here?  Fascist is as fascist does, thaibeach.

 

Have you insulted me?  Many times, including in a post that is on page 10.  Again, I don't care.  Insult me all you want.

 
I have never read either of us argue that the invasion is a "good thing." You are lying again and again. You and others here are just old conservative expats who cannot think outside of the box - labelling the few who can "commies" or "fascists." You have no argument, just straw man fallacy.

I am the OP. The topic is "How will it end?" Please stop deflecting.

Edited July 8 by BobBKK

[Tug]

14 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 
I have never read either of us argue that the invasion is a "good thing." You are lying again and again. You and others here are just old conservative expats who cannot think outside of the box - labelling the few who can "commies" or "fascists." You have no argument, just straw man fallacy.

I am the OP. The topic is "How will it end?" Please stop deflecting.

It will end with Putin’s death only then can Russia rejoin the world 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/8/2024 at 11:55 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

Did I insult you?  A sophist is someone who argues in bad faith, which I and probably most people here believe you do.  It's not an insult but rather a description of how you argue.   So, no, I did not insult you.  But, again, I will never cease to be amused that you and Bob -- the two foremost proponents of a war that has cost the lives of 100s of thousands, waged by a regime that provides zero human rights to its own citizens, that has kidnapped thousands of children, the list goes on and on -- cry so quickly when your feelings are hurt.

 

To answer your other question in another post:  1) Bob and thaibeach argue for months that Russia's invasion is a good thing and enthusiastically support it 2) people with a moral compass point this out 3) Bob and thaibeach cry that this isn't true and that it hurts their feelings... but then say they don't have to prove anything, we just have to believe them 4) and then keep crying that everyone thinks they're fascists.

 

See the problem here?  Fascist is as fascist does, thaibeach.

 

Have you insulted me?  Many times, including in a post that is on page 10.  Again, I don't care.  Insult me all you want.

Comes a point when a poster becomes so continuously personal that one can't be bothered with them any more. You might have had some interesting points about the OP, but I'll never get to read them now, Never mind, I'll just have to struggle on without reading them. Bye bye.

[ChicagoExpat]

13 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Comes a point when a poster becomes so continuously personal that one can't be bothered with them any more. You might have had some interesting points about the OP, but I'll never get to read them now, Never mind, I'll just have to struggle on without reading them. Bye bye.

This is actually a realization of the untenability and hypocrisy of your position ("I just want peace... but I support the unjustified war of one of the most brutal regimes on earth") than hurt feelings.  I doubt you've come to your autumn/winter years so easily upset by an anonymous poster who says you're a sophist.

 

Use the time to reflect on how you arrived at a station in life where you can cheer on the destruction of a nation and the deaths of hundreds of thousands.

 

If you continue to publicly support this brutal war I'll continue to call you out on it, though I won't expect a response as I expect you to be true to your word.

[ChicagoExpat]

18 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 
I have never read either of us argue that the invasion is a "good thing." You are lying again and again. You and others here are just old conservative expats who cannot think outside of the box - labelling the few who can "commies" or "fascists." You have no argument, just straw man fallacy.

I am the OP. The topic is "How will it end?" Please stop deflecting.

Oh Bob, you support the war and you know it.  If you didn't, you would say so and would, say something like "I love Russia, but I disagree with what it's doing in Ukraine."  But you won't because you don't.  The only straw man here is the one you set up -- strangely it looks a lot like you.

 

We've covered this many times but I'll revisit it as long as you do -- cries of "deflecting" "stalking" "harassing" etc are what you resort to when you know you can't support your position.  You created a thread on this war.  Talking about that same war is directly on topic, even if the moral vacuity of your personal position makes you uncomfortable.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 hours ago, Tug said:

It will end with Putin’s death only then can Russia rejoin the world 

Assuming someone worse doesn't succeed him; if any nation could produce someone worse than Putin, it's Russia.  That's why Russia needs to pay so heavily for its invasion that it shocks even Russia into reality.  Much like 1945 Germany.

[BobBKK]

5 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Oh Bob, you support the war and you know it.  If you didn't, you would say so and would, say something like "I love Russia, but I disagree with what it's doing in Ukraine."  But you won't because you don't.  The only straw man here is the one you set up -- strangely it looks a lot like you.

 

We've covered this many times but I'll revisit it as long as you do -- cries of "deflecting" "stalking" "harassing" etc are what you resort to when you know you can't support your position.  You created a thread on this war.  Talking about that same war is directly on topic, even if the moral vacuity of your personal position makes you uncomfortable.

 HOW WILL IT END?  is the topic

Your immature baiting and schoolboy comments leave me undeterred from seeking the truth and peace for the future of all.

[BobBKK]

9 hours ago, Tug said:

It will end with Putin’s death only then can Russia rejoin the world 

 
I think that's wishful thinking - it's not Putin's war. It is Russia's war against NATO expansion, amongst other things. I hope a compromise can be reached and the terrible war ends. I am anti-war.

[Seppius]

11 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
I think that's wishful thinking - it's not Putin's war. It is Russia's war against NATO expansion, amongst other things. I hope a compromise can be reached and the terrible war ends. I am anti-war.

 

Putin knows 100% that NATO is a defensive organization, he is miffed because the old soviet bloc countries (mostly) don't want to be under his sphere of influence, they ask to become members of NATO for protection from him, and live their lives as part of the European community in peace

 

"it's not Putin's war"  you said, really, you believe that?

 

 

[Jingthing]

41 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
I think that's wishful thinking - it's not Putin's war. It is Russia's war against NATO expansion, amongst other things. I hope a compromise can be reached and the terrible war ends. I am anti-war.

Funny.

He doesn't appear to care about Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

 

Back to reality.

 

Genocidal fascist dictator Putin doesn’t view Ukraine as a separate sovereign nation. He wants to gobble it up and if not reduce it to dust.

Edited July 9 by Jingthing

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

 Your immature baiting and schoolboy comments leave me undeterred from seeking the truth and peace for the future of all EXCEPT Ukrainians, Moldovans. Poles, Georgians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians --who else am I missing?

Your attempting to distract us from the immorality of your support from Russia leaves ME undeterred from pointing it out at every opportunity.  I fixed your comment above.

 

It's impossible to claim "You seek peace for the future of all" when you support Russia's unjustified invasion of Ukraine, Bob.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, BobBKK said:

 I think that's wishful thinking - it's not Putin's war. It is Russia's war against NATO expansion, amongst other things. I hope a compromise can be reached and the terrible war ends. I am anti-war.

You support Russia's war.  You are pro-war.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You support Russia's war.  You are pro-war.

 You support the USA's proxy war. You are pro-war. 

[BobBKK]

I think we have had enough off the ping pong of opinions and so I shall not be replying to any more.

Please READ the topic:

How will it end - No rights or wrongs - just how you think it will end

Please feel free to comment and vote on the topic ONLY. Thank you. 

[tgw]

4 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I think we have had enough off the ping pong of opinions and so I shall not be replying to any more.

 

thank God, finally

[ChicagoExpat]

13 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 You support the USA's proxy war. You are pro-war. 

I AM pro-war, in the sense that I 100% support Ukraine's right to defend itself, and that it's in the interests of the free world to assist Ukraine.  I would have thought that was clear all along.  Proxy war?  We've already covered this, Bob.  Russia invaded; it's not a U.S. proxy war or an EU proxy war, it's simply friends helping a friend.

 

You however, support a dictatorship, and the dictator's brutal invasion.

[ChicagoExpat]

11 hours ago, BobBKK said:

I think we have had enough off the ping pong of opinions and so I shall not be replying to any more.

Please READ the topic:

How will it end - No rights or wrongs - just how you think it will end

Please feel free to comment and vote on the topic ONLY. Thank you. 

Man this free speech/internet thing is hard to control.  If only we could live in a country where free expression wasn't allowed.

 

We're not talking about your favorite beach in Thailand, we're talking about the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

 

You can't open a thread on a subject that people feel very strongly and fight about and then be shocked, SHOCKED when people feel strongly about it and fight about it.  Either shut down the thread or find a fainting couch.

[ChicagoExpat]

Now they're going after Navalny's widow.  It's not enough that they killed her husband.  Just disgusting.  1930s all overr again.  I can't believe you support this sh!t, @thaibeachlovers, @BobBKK

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/09/world/europe/russia-yulia-navalnaya-arrest-order.html

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Now they're going after Navalny's widow.  It's not enough that they killed her husband.  Just disgusting.  1930s all overr again.  I can't believe you support this sh!t, @thaibeachlovers, @BobBKK

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/09/world/europe/russia-yulia-navalnaya-arrest-order.html

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

11. You will not troll or stalk other members by misusing forum posts, private messages, reactions, emojis or by any other means.

Edited July 10 by BobBKK

[ChicagoExpat]

2 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

11. You will not troll or stalk other members by misusing forum posts, private messages, reactions, emojis or by any other means.

Your crying about this is a daily occurrence, coinciding with getting your @ss kicked, rhetorically speaking.  The actions of the Russian government ARE what we're talking about, Bob.  What they do to exterminate political opponents is directly relevant to the conflict and the dictatorship doing the mass slaughter.  The dictatorship you support.

 

Bob -- you PROMISED, a mere 15 hours ago, that you would not reply any more.  You broke your promise, just like you broke my heart.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Your crying about this is a daily occurrence, coinciding with getting your @ss kicked, rhetorically speaking.  The actions of the Russian government ARE what we're talking about, Bob.  What they do to exterminate political opponents is directly relevant to the conflict and the dictatorship doing the mass slaughter.  The dictatorship you support.

 

Bob -- you PROMISED, a mere 15 hours ago, that you would not reply any more.  You broke your promise, just like you broke my heart.

 

How will it end? Is the topic not your pathetic rants about Navalny's widow? I will not reply to your TROLLING and BAITING posts anymore. But I reserve the right, as the OP, to redirect you to the TOPIC.

 

 

[BobBKK]

Thank you to all who voted - as can be seen, the noise generated by a few pro-Ukrainian members does not reflect the general opinion of ASEANNOW members who, probably wisely, keep quiet. Not very scientific, but 69 members voted, and the results are as follows:

 

[Captain Flack]

The results have been posted above, so at the requested of the OP, this thread has been closed.