Manila vs Bangkok

[JensenZ]

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

That is an easy one. Let me summarize.

 

Philippines
Pros-
1. The women can be lovely. And many of them speak english. And if you are older guy, that is a plus in the PI. Plus they are way less demanding, and the bar is set much lower, in terms of their expectations. Older guys can get with far younger women, without an issue. The parents actually encourage it! Generally, it is possible to have a real conversation with many women there. Not the case here. It is rare here. Unlike most Thai women, the women there can have a real sense of curiousity, and will ask genuine questions about you, and your life, beyond where do you come from, how much do you earn, and what do you own? The PI seems to have a higher level of intellectual development.

2. The visa system is something that some think is simpler.

3. The place has thousands of islands, and some stunning beaches, and cleaner water than Thailand, at least on the Gulf Coast. But, the islands are fairly hard to get to, and the services are very limited, and more expensive than in Thailand.

4. In general I would say the people can be quite friendly. Especially the women. But, unlike Thailand, even the men can be friendly. I suspect if I lived there, I would have a number of local male friends, unlike here. I have never met a society of men, who are less interested, less curious about, and less willing to get to know foreigners, than I have here in Thailand. It is sometimes astonishing. It is a real disappointment. The place is more Westernized. You do not feel like you are living on another planet, which can be nice sometimes. Some shopping can be better, as there are Costco type outlets there. Some of the highways are better, and as an American, I can have goods shipped to me, with a preferred system, that allows low cost shipping, and duty free imports. Unheard of in Thailand. Importation of goods in Thailand can be horrendously difficult. It is an onerous system, one that is outdated by decades, in this age of globalization. Thailand is far, far more insular and fearful of the outside world, than the PI.

They are more Western in their mindset. The colonial occupation by Spain, which was largely managed by Mexico, means the culture is more Western leaning. Which makes them more open to the outside world and more curious. Qualities which are sorely lacking here. 

I find it rare for Thai men to have much interest at all, in really getting to know us. They seem to be lacking curiosity of the outside world, to a remarkable degree. 

nomadcapitalist.com/2018/01/15/the-philippines-residency-srrv/

Cons-
1. The entire country is like one big Tijuana. It is depressing. Very little landscaping in the homes, even nice homes are ugly, and have barbed wire, and glass topped walls everywhere you look.

2. The security situation is not very good. You always have to keep your eyes open, keep an eye on your back, and beware of robbery, home theft, and violence. It is rampant. I have many friends who live there, and they all say the same thing.

3. If you do get into an altercation with a Philippine man, or are getting robbed or harassed, unless you are a 6th degree sensei, do not fight back. An astonishing number of locals are well trained in the fighting arts. Many are good with sticks, knives, blades or any sort, and their hands, fists and feet. I have a friend who is a world class security consultant. He is a black belt in a few different martial arts. He says he can usually fight his way out of a gang of men, nearly anywhere in the world. Except in the PI. That is the only country he will NOT take an assignment.
The average guys there, can take down the average Westerner in five seconds. In Thailand few have those kinds of skills. Very few.

4. The food sucks. The only other country I can think of with worse food, is Cuba. Granted, if you are willing to spend the money, you can find good food. But, it is not the general rule, as it is here. Also, the access to fresh fruits and vegetables is pathetic compared to Thailand. Very low quality, and often not fresh. Thailand is a paradise by comparison, when it comes to all things related to food.

5. Pollution. They use a lower grade of diesel. So, there is alot of soot in the air. The PI has an epidemic of lung diseases and respiratory diseases. Even on many of the populated islands. The hospitals are full of people who are having a very hard time breathing. It is a real issue there. Lung disease is at an epidemic level, though the authorities do not like to talk about it, and publish very little information on it.

6. Aesthetics. The average house you would rent, looks like a slum. Tall walls, with barbed wire, to keep out intruders. And they just do not pay attention to landscaping and gardens like the Thai people do. So, most neighborhoods are fabulously ugly. Alot of slums in the big cities, and just not physically appealing.

7. Renting. There is a vastly lower number of rental units available, few are as nice as what you can find in Thailand, and it is almost always more expensive, with the possible exception of Central Bangkok. You just cannot find the studio apartments like the ones available all over Hua Hin, for 6,000 to 8,000 baht a month. That does not exist there.

8. Infrastructure. The entire country lacks the infrastructure you have here in Thailand. As I am typing now, I am enjoying a 180MB download speed, and a 100MB upload speed, all on fiber optic cable, for 800 baht a month. Unheard of in many countries, including the US! Triple the cost there. No sky train network anywhere near comparable to Bangkok. Mo MRT network either. They have one under construction, and it will be limited to ten stations.

Shall I go on? I could. As far as I am concerned, the only reason to live there is the women, and a slightly more cooperative, and far less xenophobic and racist government. Alot of ex-pats are looking to leave Thailand, as the current administration is so far beyond heinous and incompetent, it is unspeakable.

9. Security. I have a friend who does private security for a lot of very high net worth individuals, and corporate CEOs, when they travel, and he told me that the only country in the world that he will not take an assignment is the Philippines. When I asked him why he reminded me that he was at the 6th or 7th degree level in six different martial arts, besides the fact that he was 6'5 and about 280 lbs. of muscle. Spent his whole life training. Not the kind of guy you would want to mess with. He told me under normal circumstances he could incapacitate a group of four or five guys, in under a minute. Not in the PI. He said that in general, the Philippine men had the greatest degree of fighting skills of any group of people in the world, and that if you encountered a single guy, or a group of Philippine guys on the street you just never knew what their level of skill was, and you had to assume that they were expert street fighters. He said many were experts with knives, sticks and improvised weapons. Not the case here.

If you add on top of that, the fact that the country is extremely poor and that there's a fairly high level of desperation, it makes the Philippines a very, very dangerous place. Crime there is very opportunistic. And being a foreigner makes you a potential target. Again, not the case in Thailand. You really have to know what you're doing, you really have to know where you're going at all times, especially at night, and you always have to have eyes in the back of your head, and constantly looking over your shoulder. Of course, it varies depending on the city, the part of the city, and the region. But it is just one of many reasons I would not want to live there. I've been told this by a number of friends who live in the Philippines and it's been my observation, the several times that I have visited.

I like the people. The level of English skills and the women seem to be the big draw for most guys. But random guys in the street, can be a hazard, and that is variable I would want to have to deal with, regularly. 

I consider the PI to be far more of a ghetto experience. But, I am referring to the environment, and I think you are referring to the social aspect. I agree with that. Thais are spectacularly insular, and seem to have little to no curiosity about the outside world. The people in the PI are infinitely more open minded, and far more Western. And the language is a huge plus in the PI. Many speak good english, and I would guess if you were attempting to speak poor Tagalog, the people would try far harder than here, to understand what you are trying to say. Since they are more Westernized, they are likely more creative, linguistically. If you do not have the pronunciation and the tones down perfectly here, the people are completely lost. A total inability to dance around in circles intellectually. And they barely even care to try to understand what you are saying! That is a huge nuisance and annoyance here. 
 
The PI is a foreign country. Thailand is a distant planet.

It looks like a copy-and-paste article from somewhere else. I agree with most of it but some of it is a bit over the top, especially the story about the 280lb martial artist who is scared of Filipinos...  but what personal experience do you have in the Philippines? How much time have you spent there? Where did you live? There's no way you'd have that much knowledge of PI unless you spent much time there.

[Thingamabob]

Mugged twice in Manila, never even remotely threatened in Bangkok. Also, the food in Manila is dire, and nowhere near as good as Bangkok/Thailand.

Edited June 24 by Thingamabob

[georgegeorgia]

42 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Mugged twice in Manila, never even remotely threatened in Bangkok. Also, the food in Manila is dire, and nowhere near as good as Bangkok/Thailand.

Omg ...where in Manila?

This is why last month May 20/21 I travelled and "patrolled" the Manila subway at night 

No problems at all 

But I guess you are taking about many years ago 

[susanlea]

Just now, georgegeorgia said:

Omg ...where in Manila?

This is why last month May 20/21 I travelled and "patrolled" the Manila subway at night 

No problems at all 

But I guess you are taking about many years ago 

Almost everyone says Manila is a dump.

[pgrahmm]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

It looks like a copy-and-paste article from somewhere else. I agree with most of it but some of it is a bit over the top, especially the story about the 280lb martial artist who is scared of Filipinos...  but what personal experience do you have in the Philippines? How much time have you spent there? Where did you live? There's no way you'd have that much knowledge of PI unless you spent much time there.

I have spent time there & cannot disagree with this synopsis....

I have a friend, a Marine Corp Master Sergeant that is half flip & half US....Also versed & teaches martial arts + built to match....The Marine Corps did not allow him to go to the PI. - they assessed it as being too dangerous.....

[newnative]

Bangkok

[georgegeorgia]

2 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Almost everyone says Manila is a dump.

There are very modern parts 

BGC ,Makati 

All very modern looks like New York 

[susanlea]

1 minute ago, georgegeorgia said:

There are very modern parts 

BGC ,Makati 

All very modern looks like New York 

How was the food? 

[georgegeorgia]

15 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

I have spent time there & cannot disagree with this synopsis....

I have a friend, a Marine Corp Master Sergeant that is half flip & half US....Also versed & teaches martial arts + built to match....The Marine Corps did not allow him to go to the PI. - they assessed it as being too dangerous.....

And here I was walking the Manila Subway at night !

I got off at a Railway station called Abad Santos , it's in the rougher type area

I was walking to change platforms when I saw 2 guys talking to the security guard ,both dark skin , tattooed rough looking guys muscle guys ,very bad looking faces 

 

I thought as there talking to the uniformed security guards it would be ok to pass them ,I ignored them as I walked past ,they said "hello Sir"

 

The first thing I thought of was their looks didn't match their voice😄they spoke very clear unlike street type talk 

 

They a followed me carrying a backpack onto the subway train.

 

They  approached me on the train , very friendly and showed their badges as railway transit police plain clothes unit 🤯👮‍♂️👮‍♂️

 

The way the spoke so intelligent not matching their looks ,clear and firm voices 

 

they were very friendly and I later saw them about 3 hours later at midnight travelling the subway back and forth 

 

They said to me so nice "Excuse me Sir there is no NEED for you to PATROL the subway as we are doing it !😄

 

Edited June 24 by georgegeorgia

[georgegeorgia]

14 minutes ago, susanlea said:

How was the food? 

It's all American franchises unless you go to the "lower class" areas where there is real Filipino street food 

The most famous is JOLLIBEES 

[Presnock]

8 hours ago, susanlea said:

A guy who went to every country says Philipines is no 1.

I spent 6 years in Manila - loved it most of the time as I also am a certified open water scuba diver and the PI has 7000 islands with crystal clear water and lots of sea life and interesting dive spots (i.e. old war ships of every size) and lots of great golf courses (Thailand does too) , but, I also experience life in floods (18 named typhoons a year), earthquakes 8+ on the scale, volcano eruptions (pinatubo - 60 kms from Manila and it dropped up go 600 meters of volvanic dust in between mountains close by if anyone has experience Lahar (when volcanic dust mixes with rain water - you can only imagine what that is like pouring onto the base at Clark and surrounding area plus carrying boulders as big as houses destroying bridges and everything else in its path.  At least the temperatures are about the same but moving around the town today, I think that it may be easier in Bangkok.  Bars are bars, attractive hostesses the same but I didn't spend any time in those.  Cebu when I was there was much smaller, much less traffic, but other than that great.  I was last in Manila in 1994, Cebu 1988, so they could have changed entirely but when it came time  to retire, #1 was no cold weather!  I hate snow, so Thailand edged them out as I also planned to do no diving in Thailand but lots of golf which I did do while I lived in BKK.  Golf membership was great at first but then the owners decided to expand by buiilding a hotel for Korean/Japanese golfers and then I lost interest mostly except for other courses that were not as much fun.  Anyway.  Like I said, I didn't hang around the bars so no help there but one thing that also decided me on Thailand for retirement was the local food.  I love spicy Thai dishes and the local food in the PI didn't fit well with me.  If the Thai govt goes bonkers with the taxes/BRICS and  I am still breathing, the PI might become more attractive to me.  Good luck to all, and I have lived in Burma, VN, Japan and Jakarta and would opt for Thailand still as I like Asia.

[JensenZ]

35 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

I have spent time there & cannot disagree with this synopsis....

I have a friend, a Marine Corp Master Sergeant that is half flip & half US....Also versed & teaches martial arts + built to match....The Marine Corps did not allow him to go to the PI. - they assessed it as being too dangerous.....

If he weighed a muscular 280lbs as mentioned in the "synopsis", he'd be far too slow to deal with a gang of Filipinos. That's far too heavy to be an effective street fighter. That's the weight of the biggest bodybuilders on stage.

Edited June 24 by JensenZ

[susanlea]

14 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

If he weighed a muscular 280lbs as mentioned in the "synopsis", he'd be far too slow to deal with a gang of Filipinos. That's far too heavy to be an effective street fighter. That's the weight of the biggest bodybuilders on stage.

Brock Lesnar 265lbs. He wasn't the biggest fighter. A strong guy could pick up a 140lb guy and smash him against concrete. Eddie Hall fought 2 guys at once last week. Smashed them both. He is over 350lbs.

Edited June 24 by susanlea

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

I would ask that a comparison between Manila🇵🇭 and Bangkok 🇹🇭is completed please !

 

Or you may complete Cebu vs Bangkok 

 

I did receive a Personal message saying I should of compared the Philippines foreigner city of Cebu  instead of Manila !

 

And you may do so ,Cebu City vs Bangkok OR

Manila City vs Bangkok city 

 

That's up to you as ametuer  data analysts and please there is no need to show your  qualifications we are all data analysts and information gatherers 

 

 

This is specific to this scenario and this is not me in this scenario 

 

•60yo to 70 yo retired farang single man 

Still relevant fit ,walking , financially ok 

 

 

Manila City vs Bangkok City 

Or Bangkok vs Cebu City 

 

Who has better gyms / fitness /recreation 

 

Financial aspects - cost of living

compared to each city ,rents ,food ,

 

Public transport is important 

 

Safety is important 

 

Medical care is important 

 

Cafes are important 

Good parks to walk 

Shopping malls 

Cost of food in supermarkets 

Easy access 

Pollution 

Nicer people?

Friendly government departments?

Redtape highest?

Easy footpath walking pedestrian friendly 

 

we as amateur academics, if we have the Government permission to call ourselves that!!

have the data analysis of web data analyst such as Numbeo

 

But....as a amateur social engineer I'm also looking beyond financial aspects and looking at other factors in comparison 

 

Many say Vietnam is cheaper to Retire ,and yes it maybe so ..BUT please look at other factors, healthcare , recreation , coffee ,gyms ,

 

Yes compare Manila to Bangkok in relation to the above scenario 

Financial,coffee etc 

 

 

 

Actually would have been nice to have an idea on what interests you then answering the questions would have been much easier While I was there, the medical facilities in Manila were international standards, cafes/restaurants are everywhere except if you go to 7000 of the other islands and then you might or might not find a restaurant - Cebu also has restaurants.  Pollution can be faced at different times but since many islands are remote, no pollution ever, I thought the people were great!  They even had a sign and office for "US statehood for the Philippines" not too far from the US Embassy.  I was an honorary member of the NBI (equivalent to US FBI) golf team so I never had any problems doing anything, going anywhere, but also being a member of the US embassy there/consulate in Cebu also afforded me easy times with officials.  I also am  a member of the PI forum and they are all consantly complaining about life there too...sometimes it is easy to forget which forum I am on.

[buick]

BGC is the place in Manila.  everything is walkable until you need to go to P Burgos, which is only a 10 minute taxi ride if you leave after 8:30pm.  i always stay at the F1 Hotel.  two good restaurants for me are Agave (mexican) and Va Bene Pasta (Italian).  for lunch i enjoyed a salad place, SaladStop!, which has a bunch of different salads to offer or you can customize your own.  there is also a Shake Shack next to SaladStop.   another one is Brotzeit, a german place, nice outdoor seating - had a great pork loin there.   there are a bunch more restaurants in Burgos Circle (which is in BGC, not P Burgos), including another outlet of SaladStop!  the High Street Mall is a good place to walk around, Burgos Circle is at one end.  sometimes you spot some freelancers.

 

my first visit to MNL was in 2008 and i had real problems with the food selection.  i did find some decent offerings at the Green Belt Mall and that helped me survive.  but i found MNL to be pretty dire at that time.  a friend of mine lived in La Union, a couple hours north of Angeles and he bought a condo in BGC around 2012 or so.  that's when i got introduced to it.  it is the one place i'd consider living if i needed to depart Bangkok.  i like Saigon and Danang but couldn't live in either one.  i like Hong Kong but too expensive.  i go to BGC at least once a year.

 

my understanding is there is an immigration office in BGC also. 

 

 

[JensenZ]

4 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Brock Lesnar 265lbs. He wasn't the biggest fighter.

17 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Brock Lesnar 265lbs. He wasn't the biggest fighter.

Yes, that's the UFC limit for title fights. He didn't spend long in MMA with a 5-3 record, and he was fighting one other heavyweight, not a bunch of nimble-footed Filipinos coming at him from all directions.

[susanlea]

Just now, JensenZ said:

Yes, that's the UFC limit for title fights. He didn't spend long in MMA with a 5-3 record, and he was fighting one other heavyweight, not a bunch of nimble-footed Filipinos coming at him from all directions.

Did you see Eddie Hall fighting those 2 small guys? Smashed them.

[scubascuba3]

8 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

130 baht for a massage ???

Your joking surely 

Still 100 in Pattaya is some places, same quality as 300 places

[JensenZ]

1 minute ago, buick said:

BGC is the place in Manila.  everything is walkable until you need to go to P Burgos, which is only a 10 minute taxi ride if you leave after 8:30pm.  i always stay at the F1 Hotel.  two good restaurants for me are Agave (mexican) and Va Bene Pasta (Italian).  for lunch i enjoyed a salad place, SaladStop!, which has a bunch of different salads to offer or you can customize your own.  there is also a Shake Shack next to SaladStop.   another one is Brotzeit, a german place, nice outdoor seating - had a great pork loin there.   there are a bunch more restaurants in Burgos Circle (which is in BGC, not P Burgos), including another outlet of SaladStop!  the High Street Mall is a good place to walk around, Burgos Circle is at one end.  sometimes you spot some freelancers.

 

my first visit to MNL was in 2008 and i had real problems with the food selection.  i did find some decent offerings at the Green Belt Mall and that helped me survive.  but i found MNL to be pretty dire at that time.  a friend of mine lived in La Union, a couple hours north of Angeles and he bought a condo in BGC around 2012 or so.  that's when i got introduced to it.  it is the one place i'd consider living if i needed to depart Bangkok.  i like Saigon and Danang but couldn't live in either one.  i like Hong Kong but too expensive.  i go to BGC at least once a year.

 

my understanding is there is an immigration office in BGC also. 

 

 

The big shopping malls have a huge selection of restaurants for every budget. Finding good quality Western-style food is not a problem, but it can be expensive; the same is not cheap in Thailand either.

[BobBKK]

I like the Philippines, but I stay in Thailand. Why?  Internet, hospitals, roads - basically infrastructure. I have been to the Philippines 53 times - I would move there in a flash if the infrastructure were the same.

[JensenZ]

4 minutes ago, susanlea said:

Did you see Eddie Hall fighting those 2 small guys? Smashed them.

Yes, I watched that, but that's fighting with rules. Street fighting is different. Anything goes. Eddie Hall is one of the world's strongest men, which helps. We're talking over 400lbs at his peak.

Edited June 24 by JensenZ

[susanlea]

Just now, JensenZ said:

Yes, I watched that, but that's fighting with rules. Street fighting is different. Anything goes.

5 on 1 almost nobody can win against the numbers. Best run.

[JensenZ]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Still 100 in Pattaya is some places, same quality as 300 places

The quality doesn't have much to do with price, but the skills of the massage therapist (PC for masseuse LOL).

 

There's a reason why they are cheap. They work very hard to convince you to pay for extras, which the girls keep. They can be very persuasive.

[JensenZ]

6 minutes ago, susanlea said:

5 on 1 almost nobody can win against the numbers. Best run.

Unless you are James Bond, of course.😁

[susanlea]

1 minute ago, JensenZ said:

The quality doesn't have much to do with price, but the skills of the massage therapist (PC for masseuse LOL).

 

There's a reason why they are cheap. They work very hard to convince you to pay for extras, which the girls keep. They can be very persuasive.

The cheapest ones in CM are in temples. No funny business. All out in open.

[JensenZ]

9 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I like the Philippines, but I stay in Thailand. Why?  Internet, hospitals, roads - basically infrastructure. I have been to the Philippines 53 times - I would move there in a flash if the infrastructure were the same.

You bring up one good point - Internet. If you want a good Internet service, you have to be near a major city and it's going to cost you more than it does in Thailand for a similar speed with unlimited data.

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, susanlea said:

The cheapest ones in CM are in temples. No funny business. All out in open.

Never tried one, but whenever I go for a 300 baht oil massage, and tell myself all I'm going to spend is 300 plus tip, I end up paying 1000 or more.🤣

[scubascuba3]

18 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

The quality doesn't have much to do with price, but the skills of the massage therapist (PC for masseuse LOL).

 

There's a reason why they are cheap. They work very hard to convince you to pay for extras, which the girls keep. They can be very persuasive.

Problem with the 100 baht places is they tend to be busy and too much talking by ignorant customers

Edited June 24 by scubascuba3

[susanlea]

6 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Problem with the 100 baht places is they tend to be busy and too much talking by ignorant customers

The customers in CM are mostly Thais at that price point.

[JensenZ]

23 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Problem with the 100 baht places is they tend to be busy and too much talking by ignorant customers

In some places, the girls talk too much, which is also off-putting. Sometimes they answer their phone while massaging. There's not exactly a code of conduct in these places.