half-Thai child moving to Thailand with Thai mom

[NativeBob]

banning order was something my friend had to deal with. His GF (and mother of his kid) issue some very simple and very efficient letter to block kid from leaving the Kingdom.

so, she milked him like crazy on promises to withdraw that letter. 

[JimmyB81]

42 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

But you feel she's a very trustworthy and moral person?

 

I said *she* feels that she is a moral person. And I clearly said I don't trust her word, but I do think she would follow any legal agreement we made, even if it was done in the UK and she could 'ignore' it if she was in Thailand. I genuinely believe she would not go against a formal agreement, but that could just be me being naive....

Edited July 16 by JimmyB81

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, JimmyB81 said:

So many replies about the poor education system in Thailand. Making me seriously reconsider letting her take her there. I do want to do what is best for my daughter, even if it means I means I need to go back on previous promises with my ex. 

She could still take her there on summer holidays to experience Thai culture and see her family, while also having the benefit of a better education in UK.

 

The education system isn't that bad in Thailand, lots of posters here have a sense of superiority about their home countries being so much better, but this does not align with my observations. European youths are often vulgar and disrespectful (especially in the UK, IMO) so whatever those superior edication systems are teaching them, they are not teaching them to behave themselves (and most of them have sh*t jobs).

 

At least Thais have some respect for their elders, provided they had good parents. Because that is what it comes down to: the parents. People rely on the education system too much.

[Doctor Tom]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

The education system isn't that bad in Thailand, lots of posters here have a sense of superiority about their home countries being so much better,

It is terrible, we all know it is, so that statement is nonsense. Just because other systems are not perfect doesn't make Thailand's food, its just not. UKs is miles better even though not perfect. 

[Doctor Tom]

8 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

The education system isn't that bad in Thailand, lots of posters here have a sense of superiority about their home countries being so much better, but this does not align with my observations. European youths are often vulgar and disrespectful (especially in the UK, IMO) so whatever those superior edication systems are teaching them, they are not teaching them to behave themselves (and most of them have sh*t jobs).

 

At least Thais have some respect for their elders, provided they had good parents. Because that is what it comes down to: the parents. People rely on the education system too much.

Utter BS 

[NativeBob]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

The education system isn't that bad in Thailand, lots of posters here have a sense of superiority about their home countries being so much better, but this does not align with my observations.

good point. Generalization su*ks. The gamut is huge - from posh "never fail" International schools to old-schools in China Town of Bangkok. We were lucky with primary school and somehow "unlucky" with secondary. 

I'd say avoid International and bilinguals, find some old school with "traditions" and minimum of "teecha Steeve" clowns. they are useless.

And yes, old schools do have very strict rules from respect to teachers to parents and elders. Agree 100%

[rattlesnake]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Utter BS 

 

Relax, man. Have you not learnt to do that, in all your time in this inferior country?

[JimmyB81]

29 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

 European youths are often vulgar and disrespectful (especially in the UK, IMO) so whatever those superior edication systems are teaching them, they are not teaching them to behave themselves 

 

This is exactly the reason my ex wants to raise our daughter in Thailand. She doesn't want her to have the same "bad attitude" (her words) that she sees in the youth here in the UK. 

 

She has a few Thai friends who have older children living here, and they have all complained about difficulties instilling Thai culture/respect in their kids, blaming the influence of friends and schools here.

 

Not saying I agree with this. Just stating her case for bringing her to live in Thailand. 

I think things like this should be easily overcome with some proper parenting. Relying on schools to instil values in your child is a bit of a cop out..

Edited July 16 by JimmyB81

[Doctor Tom]

2 minutes ago, JimmyB81 said:

This is exactly the reason my ex wants to raise our daughter in Thailand. She doesn't want her to have the same "bad attitude" (her words) that she sees in the youth here in the UK. 

 

She has a few Thai friends who have older children living here, and they have all complained about difficulties instilling Thai culture/respect in their kids, blaming the influence of friends and schools here

I can't answer to that, except that it is a massive generalization and very much depends on where you live and how you interact with those around you.  We have never seen this kind of problem.  In any event, the child is not just Thai, she is mixed race, just as much Brit as Thai. And what makes anyone think that its any better in Thailand? Why is instilling Thai culture a thing?  Doesn't the child have a right to find her own cultural balance as she grows up?   My daughter did just that. 

[NativeBob]

24 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Relax, man. Have you not learnt to do that, in all your time in this inferior country?

Well, we did research and found that high (Masters) education is just mind blowing. Yes, in Thailand. Mahidoll, KMUTT and a couple of others (don't want to share). Somehow things changed: 20 years ago they used "donated" devices and equipment but since our visit last year - everything changed BIGGLY.

 

PS: I'm writing about applied sciences, not business administrations, arts and political science. Real science, Oppenheimer's level.

PPS: and social environment - teachers, lectures, professors are hyper friendly with students. Amazing! Just like small and very cozy families. Not "pizza for everyone" but the real one. True "love".

Edited July 16 by NativeBob

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, JimmyB81 said:

This is exactly the reason my ex wants to raise our daughter in Thailand. She doesn't want her to have the same "bad attitude" (her words) that she sees in the youth here in the UK. 

 

She has a few Thai friends who have older children living here, and they have all complained about difficulties instilling Thai culture/respect in their kids, blaming the influence of friends and schools here.

 

Not saying I agree with this. Just stating her case for bringing her to live in Thailand. 

I think things like this should be easily overcome with some proper parenting. Relying on schools to instil values in your child is a bit of a cop out..

 

Yes, at the end of the day it's each to their own and circumstances vary. I know that if I had a daughter I would prefer her to be raised in Thailand rather than the UK (which I know very well).

[Doctor Tom]

1 minute ago, NativeBob said:

teachers, lectures, professors are hyper friendly with students. Amazing! Just like small and very cozy families. 

That's not the aim, nor the ambition.  The transfer of knowledge, the instilling of logical thinking and cognitive reasoning are the objectives, not friendly hugs by the water fountain. Thai Universities do not have a reputation of being good at any of this. 

[Doctor Tom]

2 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Yes, at the end of the day it's each to their own and circumstances vary. I know that if I had a daughter I would prefer her to be raised in Thailand rather than the UK (which I know very well).

Well you would, wouldn't you.  Fortunately, the father of this child can and should reject your view. 

[NativeBob]

Just now, Doctor Tom said:

That's not the aim, nor the ambition.  The transfer of knowledge, the instilling of logical thinking and cognitive reasoning are the objectives, not friendly hugs by the water fountain. Thai Universities do not have a reputation of being good at any of this. 

Me judge on my own experience and that is first hand one.

Also I mentioned in-class relationships last (PPS), obviously less important to main subject.

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Well you would, wouldn't you.  Fortunately, the father of this child can and should reject your view. 

 

He can and should do what he feels is right, which neither you or I know.

[Doctor Tom]

1 minute ago, NativeBob said:

Me judge on my own experience and that is first hand one.

Also I mentioned in-class relationships last (PPS), obviously less important to main subject.

Of course, we all judge by our own experiences.  Although I have researched and taught at three Western institutions, I can only comment on Thai ones, led by the experiences of my Thai side family some of whom have completed High level education both here and in the US/UK. 

[Doctor Tom]

1 minute ago, rattlesnake said:

 

He can and should do what he feels is right, which neither you or I know.

He has asked for advice and our experiences. Hopefully  he can sift out the right advice from the dross. 

[NativeBob]

9 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

Of course, we all judge by our own experiences.

Je pardon, did you visit labs and talk with "lectures"?

about 20 years I went to Ramkamheng University. It looked seriously unfunded and sad. I'm talking about July 2024. Oh no, August 2023 it was really cool. 

 

Update, sorry I've been taking away from the main subject. sorry. My point is your daughter has to stay with you. Period.

Edited July 16 by NativeBob

[JimmyB81]

To Doctor Tom and Rattlesnake - all advice is appreciated. I am not just going to blindly follow someone's advice without being sure it is the best thing for my situation, but it is very helpful to get the opinions of others who have either been through similar experiences or know the Thai system well.

 

Those two photos from Rattlesnake paint one picture, but I have seen plenty of teenage prostitutes in rural Thailand and boys addicted to drugs and alcohol before they even reach 18. There are good and bad in both countries IMO

[NativeBob]

6 minutes ago, JimmyB81 said:

but I have seen plenty of teenage prostitutes in rural Thailand and boys addicted to drugs and alcohol before they even reach 18

"its a full time job to be a good dad" (guess who?)

[rattlesnake]

22 minutes ago, JimmyB81 said:

To Doctor Tom and Rattlesnake - all advice is appreciated. I am not just going to blindly follow someone's advice without being sure it is the best thing for my situation, but it is very helpful to get the opinions of others who have either been through similar experiences or know the Thai system well.

 

Those two photos from Rattlesnake paint one picture, but I have seen plenty of teenage prostitutes in rural Thailand and boys addicted to drugs and alcohol before they even reach 18. There are good and bad in both countries IMO

 

Indeed, hence my earlier insistance on parenting being the most important, before the "education" system. As long as there is the will to do well, it generally works out, and it seems you and your ex want to do well so I would tend to think you will be okay (though it will probably be a bumpy ride, as raising a child – especially from two different cultures – always is).

[soi3eddie]

15 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

You need to talk with a Thai lawyer, in Thailand if you are not married to the mother then you have no legal rights at all.

I strongly suggest that you sort everything legally before your child goes to Thailand, I would not let the mother take the child on a "holiday" to Thailand as once there you have no hope of sortinging anything.

If you are serious about the childs future you may wish to think about keeping the child in the UK as the school system is better and a better future.

 

Focus on what is best for the child, do not argue, go for custody in the UK.

 

To be honest I would not trust the mother at all if you already have been abusede, plus she knows that she has to keep everything calm until she gets to Thailand then she is in the stronger position of doing nothing and not letting you see your daughter.

 

 

Very good advice. Clearly the OP cares deeply for his child. Once the child has gone to Thailand it could be extremly difficult for him to do as planned above. It needs to be formalised in the family court in the UK at least. Right now, I would be securing the child's passport and birth certificate/s (UK and Thai) in order to slow any flight out of the country. Then consult the men's support group for their advice. The child will certainly have a better education and future in the UK. Thankfully this was a not a dilema for me as my son was already in a good UK school at age 11. I still suffered the parental alienation and denied visitation though. If things are cordial now then expect that to change if/when the OP gets another girlfriend/partner. Best to keep that quiet.

 

[BM7591]

You might find some information here.

I believe minors can own property in Thailand. 
https://library.siam-legal.com/thai-law/civil-and-commercial-code-parent-child-section-1561-1584-1/

[bradiston]

My Thai wife and I divorced back in the 90s, in UK and Thailand, as we'd been Martin both. In the UK, I got "custody" of our 5 year old daughter, although they don't call it that anymore. My daughter lived with me until after uni in the UK. We are very close. Her mum also lives in the UK and they maintain a very good mother/daughter relationship. I got a court order prior to divorce proceedings preventing my ex from taking our daughter abroad. Things sorted themselves out and after a year or two subsequent to the divorce, which was bitter, everything calmed down and peace prevailed. We had built a house in her village which went into my ex wife's mum's name. It's back in my ex's name now. Been empty for years due to family fall outs.

 

The only real downside to this was my daughter, who has 3 passports, never learnt Thai. I think it's important she maintains contact with her Thai roots as much as her UK ones. She visits me usually twice a year. She loves Thailand. She's smart and good looking like a lot of falang/Thai offspring. It seems to be a good genetic mix.

 

All's well that ends well.

[Confuscious]

I was in a similar position as the OP.

1. I was told by the land office (Korat) that my child needed to be 21 years before she could own land.
    I still have the email from the land department somewhere, but to lazy to go look for it.
2. If you are named as the father of the child on the birth certificate, you are the father of the child.
    But to get custody of the child your ex-wife need to sign an agreement with you at the Amphur or get a court order (very difficult).
    In my case, my ex-wife was short of cash and could not give the child the necessary care.
    So, she signed a paper in which she gave me the "Sole Parenthood" for a few Baht.
    Caveat: Once the child has 21 years, the child can chose to go back to the mother freely despite all your efforts to raise the child.
3. The mother can try to convince the child to sell the house  for her own needs.
     You will never have a guarantee that your good intentions will be followed by the child.
4. As a last advice, before doing anything that you might regret, hire a (good) lawyer and let him analyze the background of your ex- and your child.
He/She might find things you didn't know about.

[Homburg]

On 7/16/2024 at 12:36 AM, JimmyB81 said:

4. Baby has a UK Passport and my ex is planning to get her a Thai passport soon.

As the Father named on the child's UK Birth certificate, your permission is required for the child to be issued with a Thai passport. In your place I'd insist on the house being transferred into the child's name as a pre-condition of agreeing to the issue of the Thai passport. You will need a Thai lawyer to ensure that this is done correctly.  

[BritManToo]

14 hours ago, JimmyB81 said:

I said *she* feels that she is a moral person. And I clearly said I don't trust her word, but I do think she would follow any legal agreement we made, even if it was done in the UK and she could 'ignore' it if she was in Thailand. I genuinely believe she would not go against a formal agreement, but that could just be me being naive....

I think you're worrying about the wrong things.

The house is gone, the kid is probably also gone (or will be soon).

But 19 years child maintenance is not gone, and a real worry in the UK.

And her willingness to tell tales of 'drunkenness and cruelty' (Sunny Afternoon) to the court/police is also not gone.

 

Sorry if you find my comments a bit cynical, but nearly all the expats posting on this forum have seen this game played out time and again, not only on us, but on our pals. Protecting yourself comes first.

 

As for Thai schools, I've had a daughter go all the way through Thai government school and university, no problems at all, and a son age 12 currently in Thai government school (CEP = Chinese and English Programme) doing very well with no problems at trivial cost (8kbht/term). 

 

Good luck whatever happens!

[scorecard]

On 7/16/2024 at 7:01 AM, stupidfarang said:

You need to talk with a Thai lawyer, in Thailand if you are not married to the mother then you have no legal rights at all.

I strongly suggest that you sort everything legally before your child goes to Thailand, I would not let the mother take the child on a "holiday" to Thailand as once there you have no hope of sortinging anything.

If you are serious about the childs future you may wish to think about keeping the child in the UK as the school system is better and a better future.

 

Focus on what is best for the child, do not argue, go for custody in the UK.

 

To be honest I would not trust the mother at all if you already have been abusede, plus she knows that she has to keep everything calm until she gets to Thailand then she is in the stronger position of doing nothing and not letting you see your daughter.

 

One point: have you thought about start some early education for the littleone; 

-  learning the Thai and English alphabet and a bit later reading both languages

- Thai language conversation

 - simple maths

[john donson]

the child can have the house and land in their name NOW, before 18, it is 20 anyway, majority in thailand... I had to use court (again) as land department did not feel like following a family court divorce agreement, signed by ex and a judge... ex thought she could get away with it, we agreed to get shared ownership ex / kid, but kids cannot sue their parents and only via my lawyer and court, it was enforced but took 2 years...  

 

do not consent to get a thai passport, you will never see your kid again

 

she has everything she wants, a free house paid by someone else

 

she might seem amicable now

 

a daughter has little future in TH, useless degree, rapists all over, neighbors, uncles, ...

 

 

 

 

[john donson]

ask for a usufruct, in your name, for life, on the house, cost a few hundreds baht

 

do it while the child is in UK, as it is not involved

 

she cannot sell the land or house without your permission

 

might be the best few thousands baht you spend, on a lawyer, just for this, if land department does not want to do it, but it is your legal right and law but we know how corrupt land departments are

 

look up  :  usufruct thailand

 

thank me later, looooooooooooooooool