Youve Been Arrested, Now What?

[Rdrokit]

If you are Pattaya then you will find the Foreign Police Volunteers at their desk in the main police station and they can help you if you need a lawyer, don't speak Thai or do not know the correct procedures. They have a list of all the Embassy phone numbers and a list of lawyers recommended by the major embassies, like US and British. They can be a great help. If you are not in Pattaya I would call your embassy and get a list of recommended lawyers. Always have at least a copy of your passport (by the way the police cannot take your passport as it is not actually yours, it is property of your goverment and can only be taken away by your embassy. The police may have a copy of it only). And by ALL MEANS do not raise your voice or show maddness. Always smile and be pleasent even if you want to jump over the desk and choke someone. Hope this helps.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2007-08-01 08:40:41)

I'd recommend Wirot Poonsuwan. Alternatively one of the lawyers where I(and he) used to work - Clifford Chance. It really depends how much money you wish to spend. There, it would be about 7,000 an hour. Depending on the charge, it may be better and cheaper to pay the police off.

Good thread.

It is always good to contact any Thai people you know have some "influence".

A nice ad for Clifford Chance!

Must be one of those back street, knock about criminal practices I guess and not branch of that leading London corporate firm.

Cheap at the price though!

Are you trying to be funny, or plain stupid?

[Furbie]

What if you are NOT GUILTY,don't have high class influential friends,the local cops aren't your drinking buddies or hang around your house with you.You don't live in Bangkok or another large city with a 7000Bath lawyer on speed dial.What if your retired on 40,000Baht a month,its the 25th and the next check won't be deposited until the 1st of the month.You live in the sticks,30kilometre from the nearest sizable town. What do you do then?

Move. Or develop your own slush fund for just such an emergency.

[mellow1]

[Move. Or develop your own slush fund for just such an emergency. ]

Good comment,I was worried there for a minute that someone like yourself might suggest getting a better justice system.What a relief,that your a farang with the proper mind set.

[jingjoe]

What if you are NOT GUILTY,don't have high class influential friends,the local cops aren't your drinking buddies or hang around your house with you.You don't live in Bangkok or another large city with a 7000Bath lawyer on speed dial.What if your retired on 40,000Baht a month,its the 25th and the next check won't be deposited until the 1st of the month.You live in the sticks,30kilometre from the nearest sizable town. What do you do then?

I dare say in that situation you're a fair chance of getting screwed.

This is not an unusual situation in Western societies either, where citizens get the justice they can afford.

I agree with those that suggest playing it cool and waiting for the walloper to drop a hint... keep a spare smile up your sleeve for such an eventuality.

Finally some advice (for what it's worth) when speaking to Police (no guarantee's) in any serious matter, after name and birthdate, only offer words to the effect of;

"Officer I want to assist you in your enquiries, but this is a very serious matter, so allow me to speak to my solicitor before commenting further."

In most western countries I also recommend; "I got it at a pub, I've never seen the bloke before, I was just experimenting."

Good thought provoking thread.

[Jersey_UK]

What if you are NOT GUILTY,don't have high class influential friends,the local cops aren't your drinking buddies or hang around your house with you.You don't live in Bangkok or another large city with a 7000Bath lawyer on speed dial.What if your retired on 40,000Baht a month,its the 25th and the next check won't be deposited until the 1st of the month.You live in the sticks,30kilometre from the nearest sizable town. What do you do then?

Be good

Good points about being a bit careful when trying to pay a bung - their ARE honest plod in Thailand (maybe most of them?!) and in any event if yer start waving notes and in pidgin Thai / English demanding to pay a bribe you may be in more "do do", either cos' you have chosen the wrong Cop (an Honest one!), you have asked in the wrong enviroment (with his boss / colleagues watching!) or he has simply taken umbridge at your presumption that Mr Farang can buy his way out of trouble.......even if he WAS going to suggest this himself

As already said, usually the bribe situations are pretty self evident (indeed it is often the reason for the relevent enforcement action) - but as an "Ice breaker" consider asking whether you can sort everything out quickly because it is simply less hassle for you to do everything today, mention you are not sure how the Thai legal system works and enquire whether it is possible to simply pay a "fine" (I would not call it a bribe!).....unless he is dumber than a donut he will know what you are talking about and if you are polite and subtle he should not take great umbrage (but no guarantees!)......but IMO all this stuff does come better from a local.

Edited August 1, 2007 by Jersey_UK

[LinkPopularity]

What if you are NOT GUILTY,don't have high class influential friends,the local cops aren't your drinking buddies or hang around your house with you.You don't live in Bangkok or another large city with a 7000Bath lawyer on speed dial.What if your retired on 40,000Baht a month,its the 25th and the next check won't be deposited until the 1st of the month.You live in the sticks,30kilometre from the nearest sizable town. What do you do then?

don't get caught

[Pepe']

I'd recommend Wirot Poonsuwan. Alternatively one of the lawyers where I(and he) used to work - Clifford Chance. It really depends how much money you wish to spend. There, it would be about 7,000 an hour. Depending on the charge, it may be better and cheaper to pay the police off.

Good thread.

It is always good to contact any Thai people you know have some "influence".

" Pay the police off."

Isn't that recommending illegal activity?

[khall64au]

What is the right way to go about bribing?

As somebody else said, the cops will usually let you know.

A friend of mine was caught with a joint in Bangkok. The cops that found the illegal cigarette said that they wanted to "help" the guy -- keep him from having to go to the police station. It was obvious they were fishing for a bribe. They hustled him into a taxi cab, and the driver, who was obviously working with the police, just drove around while my buddy and the cop negotiated a price. The cop wanted 6000 baht, but my buddy has been here for many years and tried to get the price down. He wasn't successful in getting the bribe reduced, and finally handed over the money when the cop reminded him that if they do go to the station it would cost him substantially more, as he would have to pay off a lot more officers at the station. As I said, this guy has a lot of experience with Thai culture and knew that what the cop was saying was true. Something that both amused and irritated my friend was that the cop insisted my buddy shake his hand hand before he would finally release him. My friend says that the cop really insisted he shake his hand -- wouldn't let the guy go until he did it. Neither of us completely understand that but feel that it must have something to do with saving face or some superficial gesture that would make the cop feel better.

Recently, I heard of a case where a young foreign man was due to fly home and two days beforehand was stopped by police at a checkpoint. The car he was driving (not his) was searched and a joint found. Three appearances in court later, his case has been adjourned again as the police forgot to bring their "paperwork". A month after his booked flight departure, he is still wondering whether or not he will be "deported". Perhaps he forgot to shake the officer's hands?

[mellow1]

So the answer for not being guilty is:1) Pay or get screwed 2) Pay and get screwed.

I guess if you have a choice in the many options #1 would be the way to go.

[Andrew Hicks]

Skippybangkok, not so hasty!! It's an interesting scenario. Suppose that you have been arrested, but you believe your are innocent of the charge. What would you do?

I always carry the 24/7 phone number of a BKK lawyer who specialises in such scenarios.

I know it's extremely unlikely to happen, but BKK is not London and it's a totally different ball game here!

So what would you do?

Simon

Good idea! I've now put the number of a Surin lawyer in my mobile.

But it's almost certain I'll forget I've got it when I'm cooling my heels in the police cell.

However do I remember?

Once I locked myself out of my VW Beetle in the middle of the Sahara with the keys inside... no kidding! A guy on a passing camel had a screw driver tucked into his robes and helped me break open the quarter light, but it wasn't until I got home that I remembered I'd taped a spare key under the front wing.

A hopeless case I suppose.

[mellow1]

If I was riding around on a camel in the Sahara,I'd never think of keeping a screw driver around.

[Douggie Style]

All the previous posts are good.

For low level stuff, having a wallet full of the local embassy business cards can be useful, but only if you don't have something better.

It worked in Bali every time I was stopped by the local pizza, sorry police boys lounging in some dark ally. I used to wave the cards about with a bit of a indignant attitude and a 'call them', quite funny really being in boardys and a 'Bali' t-shirt........

[gburns57au]

I got involved in an altercation that turned ugly with a Thai girl once...she picked my pocket in hotel reception....I had seen her room key, so I knew the number and there was only us and the receptionist there so it wasnt mistaken identity...I went to her room and got my wallet back, kept my foot in the door which was lucky as the wallet was empty....I pushed my way in and got my cards back as well there was small amount of notes 6000+ baht on a table, so I picked them up and pocketed them, it was about the amount that was in my wallet. She attacked me by biting me and hitting me with a plastic water container...I gave her a medium straight right to the chin and got out of there...went to reception and the receptionist told me that the girl had called the police...I said "fine...call them again, from me this time reporting a theft"...the BIB arrived and we both got escorted to the station....

At the police station, we were interviewed and she said she had hocked some gold and had a receipt, she was allowed to leave and get the receipt on her own...while she was gone the cop said basically if she had a receipt I had a problem as she wanted to charge me with theft and assualt, I told him that the receipt she was getting could be written by anyone and backdated as she was not escorted.He then said that he basically believed my side of things but to wait and see...

She came back with a receipt and the cop said it was a 50/50 story...I then suggested divvying up the money 50/50 to finish it. She wanted to push the assualt charge, I told her to shut up or I'd hit her again..after all I was the one bleeding from the cut on face where she had hit me and she didnt have a mark on her. The cop didnt even blink....just finished off the report to say it was settled between the parties and no further action was to be taken. We found out later that she had stolen gold and a handbag from another womans room that night, shame we didnt know it before.

In all but two of the scenarios mentioned by the OP....it could be handled at a low level by negotiation with the police (not a bribe). If you have hurt someone with a weapon then compensation will need to be negotiated and you should have representation for that. Anything to do with drugs and you should be on to your embassy ASAP, They can arrange lawyers for you.

If at any time you fel that the situation is too big for you, ring your embassy. They cannot deny you this call...it is your right.

[mellow1]

I got involved in an altercation that turned ugly with a Thai girl once...she picked my pocket in hotel reception....I had seen her room key, so I knew the number and there was only us and the receptionist there so it wasnt mistaken identity...I went to her room and got my wallet back, kept my foot in the door which was lucky as the wallet was empty....I pushed my way in and got my cards back as well there was small amount of notes 6000+ baht on a table, so I picked them up and pocketed them, it was about the amount that was in my wallet. She attacked me by biting me and hitting me with a plastic water container...I gave her a medium straight right to the chin and got out of there...went to reception and the receptionist told me that the girl had called the police...I said "fine...call them again, from me this time reporting a theft"...the BIB arrived and we both got escorted to the station....

At the police station, we were interviewed and she said she had hocked some gold and had a receipt, she was allowed to leave and get the receipt on her own...while she was gone the cop said basically if she had a receipt I had a problem as she wanted to charge me with theft and assualt, I told him that the receipt she was getting could be written by anyone and backdated as she was not escorted.He then said that he basically believed my side of things but to wait and see...

She came back with a receipt and the cop said it was a 50/50 story...I then suggested divvying up the money 50/50 to finish it. She wanted to push the assualt charge, I told her to shut up or I'd hit her again..after all I was the one bleeding from the cut on face where she had hit me and she didnt have a mark on her. The cop didnt even blink....just finished off the report to say it was settled between the parties and no further action was to be taken. We found out later that she had stolen gold and a handbag from another womans room that night, shame we didnt know it before.

In all but two of the scenarios mentioned by the OP....it could be handled at a low level by negotiation with the police (not a bribe). If you have hurt someone with a weapon then compensation will need to be negotiated and you should have representation for that. Anything to do with drugs and you should be on to your embassy ASAP, They can arrange lawyers for you.

If at any time you fel that the situation is too big for you, ring your embassy. They cannot deny you this call...it is your right.

I'm glad it turned out OK for you.I'm also happy for you that you didn't get more seriously hurt,or that you didn't get accused of attempted rape,because you entered her room and assaulted her.

But the final result of the event is that you where robbed,assaulted,the Thai woman was released on her own recognisance

to get evidence against you(you stayed in police custody),and you wound up having to forfeit half your money to the person who did that to you. Your a lucky guy.

[mellow1]

I got involved in an altercation that turned ugly with a Thai girl once...she picked my pocket in hotel reception....I had seen her room key, so I knew the number and there was only us and the receptionist there so it wasnt mistaken identity...I went to her room and got my wallet back, kept my foot in the door which was

[gburns57au]

I'm glad it turned out OK for you.I'm also happy for you that you didn't get more seriously hurt,or that you didn't get accused of attempted rape,because you entered her room and assaulted her.

But the final result of the event is that you where robbed,assaulted,the Thai woman was released on her own recognisance

to get evidence against you(you stayed in police custody),and you wound up having to forfeit half your money to the person who did that to you. Your a lucky guy.

We didnt go into custody, we were just in the station to sort it out, I got the feeling that the cop wanted her out of the way because his attitude changed straight away and we had a good chat. His comment of 50/50 was the hint on how to finish it quickly.

[AlexLah]

OK, I have a long bad story to tell, please indicate if you wanna know or not.

[mellow1]

We didnt go into custody, we were just in the station to sort it out, I got the feeling that the cop wanted her out of the way because his attitude changed straight away and we had a good chat. His comment of 50/50 was the hint on how to finish it quickly.

I'm very happy that you had a good chat with your new found friend, and that you are satisfied with the justice you received from him.I'm also happy for this thief,who didn't lose face in the process of ripping you off, and that your new found friend was kind enough to donate half your money to her.If she does this 10 times a day,she will be in a very high income bracket,and at the same time keep many people like yourself happy.

[toasted]

Gburns57au - Why didn't you just call the police when you knew she'd picked your pocket, and you knew her room number? You put yourself in a potentially very difficult position by confronting her yourself. I'm glad it worked out ok for you in the end though.

[gburns57au]

Gburns57au - Why didn't you just call the police when you knew she'd picked your pocket, and you knew her room number? You put yourself in a potentially very difficult position by confronting her yourself. I'm glad it worked out ok for you in the end though.

mmmm....that would have been a way...it was just the way I reacted at the time.

[gburns57au]

I'm very happy that you had a good chat with your new found friend, and that you are satisfied with the justice you received from him.I'm also happy for this thief,who didn't lose face in the process of ripping you off, and that your new found friend was kind enough to donate half your money to her.If she does this 10 times a day,she will be in a very high income bracket,and at the same time keep many people like yourself happy.

I am very happy that it didnt go further....we could have both ended up in custody for many hours till the judge made a decision. That would have cost me a lot more.

Sometimes you have to know when to cut your losses and this was such a time.

[AlexLah]

I think this is a very good and legitamite question.

I will tell you my story on how a small offence went into a disaster.

A few years ago I decided to spend some annual leave in Phuket together with a Thai lady friend of mine.

Ok we decided to stay in some hotel at an area called Karon center.

First night we were there we decided to see if there were any bars open, just looking to have a fun time (dancing a bit and stuff like that).

When cruising the streets we soon found out the place was dead.

So we asked some locals where to find some action.

So they pointed us out to a bar were live music was being played and some farang would hang out, just a 10 minute walk down the road.

So we go there and indeed the place was packed.

Good live music and great atmosphere, really a good time we were having.

After some time the owner and his wife asked us if we would be interested to join a birtday party of his friend in his house after closing time.

Yes sure, always in for a party we answered.

Once arrived in the house the bar owner asked if each one of us could pay a few hundred Bath to buy some beer and snacks, so we did and everybody else.

Wife of barowner served some 'Welcome" drinks and after a while the beer and whiskey came in so we all were doing our best to get the party started.

About 15 minutes into the party suddenly the door was kicked open and in came police with guns and TV crew with cameras and others with photocameras,

shouting and screaming whatever it was. At that time I did not understand a word of Thai so I was very surprised and scared.

Apparantly some of the 'Thai' guest's turned out to be undercover police as they told me they needed to search my pockets.

I refused and told him I would turn my pockets upside down in front of a camera, any camera.

There were about 40 guests and about 40 police so you can imagine what the scene looked like.

Agents shouting to you in Thai while cameras and guns pointed at you.

So I took of all of my clothes and emptied all my pockets, yes in front of a camera, my friend did the same after I told her to only to do that

when there was a camera.

Apart from some chewing gum and siggies nothing was found on me and my friend as the agent told me but they put all in plastic bags..

I told you that a small offence went into a disaster right, so here we go!

The big police boss decided that some of us needed to get our urine checked and guess who, yep all the farang!So whe where pushed

in a pick up truck and went to some hospital to do urine check.

Arrived at the hospital I asked for two botlle for urine sample, just in case to get a second test when the first botlle turn out to

have some illegall substance for whatever reason I would have a sample that could be checked by my embassy.

This was not really appreciated by the police I tell you.

Ok after the check we all went back to the police station and there is where the story went bad....

Afer arriving back in the local police station and waiting for another hour the big boss came inside.

He called up some numbers and only farang had to line up and he told these people had tested positive for drugs.

Yes I was one of them according to him,

My mind thinking, was there something in the welcome drink?

Back to the hospital for anoher urine check.

After that back to the police station.

I was really scared, what if the welcome drink contained some kind of drug?

Back in the police station my name was called.

Remember I had to give/show all my belongings to them while doing the pocket search?

I was transported into a room with no windows and only one door to enter or go out.

3 police officer there.

They had some kind of tools that I can not identify as the room is a bit dark.

They ask me if I agree that some kind of drugs was found on me.

No I said and told them the evidence is on tape and I also have my urine check.

No problem they told, just admitt you recieved some kind of drug from that guy that invited you for the party, if you do you are free they told me.

No i said I will not do that, then it all started.....

If you want me to continue this story please tell but it is very graphic and I think Mods will not allow it to tell.

Mods can I continue or not?

I_think_this_is_a_very_good_and_legitimate_question.doc

Edited August 4, 2007 by AlexLah

[gburns57au]

Alex...you may want to edit that post and get rid of the MS word link.....

[AlexLah]

Sorry cannot remove the link.

TV members no need to click the link as it has the same story that I posted.

[mellow1]

The signature of AlexLah"Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow" is an appropriate summary for this thread.

[toasted]

AlexLah, you've got me hooked. How did it finish up?

[wrecker]

1. You stay out of the press,

2. Mostly it is not wise to phone your girlfriend's powerful friends, simply because she does not have any, or they are fake.

3. Lawyers are always criminals themselves and especially in Thailand.

4. Remember that you are f**cked unless you are able to negotiate a fee with either the police, if that is too expensive or impossible with the prosecutor and the judge.

remember that even for something as little as a fight you will mostly be declared persona non grata.

Thai people can negotiate, but do not bet on the non existing powerful friends who seem to happen always close to certain people close to prem, mostly it will mean that you will not even get bail. Besides authorities are ofte not willing to negotiate if you come with powerful people or embassies, as they will be scrutinized.

STAY out of the press!

[mikethevigoman]

Suppose that you are arrested by the Thai Police for something that you feel would normally be treated lightly. Maybe you got into a shoving match with someone else and a cop happened to be coming out of 711. Maybe your Thai girl friend took you too a party and the Cops decide to raid a dice game while you are there. Perhaps you went to an after hours bar that got raided. Someone half your size tried to pick your pocket and you caught him with a mean left hook. For whatever reason, the Thai police believe that you did something wrong and you are taken down to the police station.

What is your course of action? Do you call a lawyer. Do you call any of your Wife's powerful friends? Do you call your embassy? Do you allow the police to question you alone? Do you ask for an interpreter if their english is only So-So? Do you willingly sign a piece of paper that is not written in English? Do you offer money or wait for them to ask? Do you have the right to make a phone call? What rights do you have in Thailand? If you ask to call your embassy and they refuse, what should you do?

The examples I gave at the start of this post usually will not have you in very much trouble, but lets pretend that you did something more drastic. You felt the need to use self defense and hit someone with a bat. You accidently hit someone with your car. Someone brought drugs into your car without you knowing and it got searched. In these more serious circumstances, do your answers to the above questions change?

There is the easy way ( pay up, offer to clear it up there and then ) or the hard way ,.insist on your innocence and ask for a court hearing, ..

[joeuk1]

Alex please continue i would love to read what happened .

JB