ATM fees or Pay tax

[EVENKEEL]

Just a hypothetical question. Would you rather pay 12 K baht taxes or spend 12K baht on ATM fees from home country bank? 

[EVENKEEL]

33 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Just a hypothetical question. Would you rather pay 12 K baht taxes or spend 12K baht on ATM fees from home country bank? 

I suggest the confused person add more roughage to their diet. You look constipated.

[gargamon]

No ATM fees from my home country bank. I even have a home country card with no fees that pays the Thai ATM fee. I don't use that one much as I suspect overuse may get it cancelled.

 

Lately however, I'm doing most of my purchases on a US credit card, also with no foreign transaction fees. Best solution for me.

[TheAppletons]

2 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I suggest the confused person add more roughage to their diet. You look constipated.

 

  I'll play along, if only for the benefit of those who can't quite understand that in this hypothetical situation one either pays taxes or pays ATM fees of 12K THB.  (Obviously, there are no fee credit cards and ATM fee rebate cards but they aren't in the scenario as described.)

 

  Given those two choices - and only those two choices - I'd pay the tax.  It limits your total outlay to 12K THB.

 

  If you take the ATM fee choice, you pay the same 12K THB but leave yourself open to the tax man to audit you at a later date, potentially resulting in a tax payment and possible fines/interest on top of the 12K ATM fees.  

 

  

[Moonlover]

My hypothetical answer is that if you use an ATM card that attracts such, then that's what your going to pay, whether you like it or not.

 

However there is still no concrete indication that we, as foreign residents here will be liable to taxation. It all seems to be very much 'up in the air' right now.

 

Stop worrying about things that may never happen. It's a virus that seems to spreading faster than Covid just lately.

[CallumWK]

5 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

However there is still no concrete indication that we, as foreign residents here will be liable to taxation. It all seems to be very much 'up in the air' right now.

 

Where did you get the indication that it's all up in the air? I thought there were enough threads already, with a lot of CREDIBLE sources, that leave no doubt that the taxation is a fact and will happen

[KhunHeineken]

36 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  I'll play along, if only for the benefit of those who can't quite understand that in this hypothetical situation one either pays taxes or pays ATM fees of 12K THB.  (Obviously, there are no fee credit cards and ATM fee rebate cards but they aren't in the scenario as described.)

 

  Given those two choices - and only those two choices - I'd pay the tax.  It limits your total outlay to 12K THB.

 

  If you take the ATM fee choice, you pay the same 12K THB but leave yourself open to the tax man to audit you at a later date, potentially resulting in a tax payment and possible fines/interest on top of the 12K ATM fees.  

 

  

I tend to disagree with you because I would think it's a lot easier using an ATM than dealing with Thai Revenue Department authorities. 

 

We just don't know how much of a head <deleted> this is going to be until early 2025, so I don't blame people for using an ATM in order to sit back and wait to see how all of this unfolds.

 

Flying under the radar here is what many try to do, thus minimizing any and all dealings with Thai officialdom, and I don't see this tax as anything different.  If you can stay outside of the Thai tax system, for me, that's preferable to being inside the Thai tax system. 

 

However, as I mentioned in another post, for those topping up their 800k, or those using the 65k a month method, they are going to need a paper trail of remittance, thus, some tax to pay, or, pay an agent.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

My hypothetical answer is that if you use an ATM card that attracts such, then that's what your going to pay, whether you like it or not.

 

However there is still no concrete indication that we, as foreign residents here will be liable to taxation. It all seems to be very much 'up in the air' right now.

 

Stop worrying about things that may never happen. It's a virus that seems to spreading faster than Covid just lately.

I think you will be in for a shock in 2025. 

 

Have you ever known the Thai's to let a baht slip through their hands? 

[Chivas]

14 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

 

However there is still no concrete indication that we, as foreign residents here will be liable to taxation. It all seems to be very much 'up in the air' right now.

 

Stop worrying about things that may never happen. It's a virus that seems to spreading faster than Covid just lately.

 

I'd go as high as 99% it will never happen

As per normal the Thais have simply not though this through and the implications

[Chivas]

1 minute ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

 

Have you ever known the Thai's to let a baht slip through their hands? 

Dear oh dear which is EXACTLY what is going to happen as Expats depart in droves and others now depart annually after 179 days to neighbouring countries

[Moonlover]

23 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I think you will be in for a shock in 2025. 

 

Have you ever known the Thai's to let a baht slip through their hands? 

 

Sorry pal but I'm not in for a shock at all. Even if they do implement this measure my income is already taxed and covered by a DTA with my home country.

 

And incidentally I have known many Thais who have let money slip through their fingers. Lots of it in some cases.

 

25 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

I'd go as high as 99% it will never happen

As per normal the Thais have simply not though this through and the implications

 

Yup, I completely agree with you. Far too much trouble for too little a return.

[KhunHeineken]

31 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Dear oh dear which is EXACTLY what is going to happen as Expats depart in droves and others now depart annually after 179 days to neighbouring countries

Those neighboring countries will eventually come online with the global tax system.  This is not just a Thailand thing, it's global.   

 

Vietnam seems to be a popular choice for those looking to stay outside of Thailand for 6 months of the year, but they have similar laws.  They are just not enforcing them YET, but give it time.

 

https://www.vietnam-briefing.com/doing-business-guide/vietnam/taxation-and-accounting/individual-income-tax

 

"A tax resident is defined as someone residing in Vietnam for 183 days or more in either the calendar year or a period of 12 consecutive months from the date of arrival. Tax residents are subject to PIT on their worldwide employment income, regardless of where the income is paid or earned, at progressive rates from five percent (5%) to a maximum of thirty five percent (35%)."

 

I am considering 179 days in Thailand, 182 days in Vietnam, and the few days difference in Singapore for the F1. 

 

I am staying the full tax year in 2024, so they will get me for this year.  If I feel it's a rip off, they will only get me once, because I will implement the above plan. 

Edited July 21 by KhunHeineken

[Moonlover]

42 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

Where did you get the indication that it's all up in the air? I thought there were enough threads already, with a lot of CREDIBLE sources, that leave no doubt that the taxation is a fact and will happen

There are lots and lots of threads full of speculation, nothing more than that.

[KhunHeineken]

35 minutes ago, Chivas said:

I'd go as high as 99% it will never happen

They said that about cannabis as well.  I remember one member banging on about how they would never legalize cannabis, even after they passed the laws legalizing it. 

 

You say 99% it will never happen, yet, it's actually happening as of this moment. 

 

You are betting on Thailand not having the infrastructure to handle collection and enforcement, but bureaucracy expands to cater for the ever increasing bureaucracy. 

[KhunHeineken]

9 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Even if they do implement this measure my income is already taxed and covered by a DTA with my home country.

What country is that?

 

10 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Yup, I completely agree with you. Far too much trouble for too little a return.

Why do you say "little return?"  Many expats remit millions of baht a year. 

 

What about those buying a property here.  That's a nice one off earner for the TRD, same with those moving the 800k for a retirement visa, or buying a car.

 

Over hundreds of thousands of expats, all over Thailand, it's a new revenue stream. 

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

There are lots and lots of threads full of speculation, nothing more than that.

Did you read the laws?  Did you read the announcements made by the Thai government?  Where's the speculation?  It's happening at this very moment. 

[topt]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Where's the speculation?

In many of your posts unfortunately........(all bank account holders to produce a TIN for one........)

[KhunHeineken]

30 minutes ago, topt said:

In many of your posts unfortunately........(all bank account holders to produce a TIN for one........)

We have a post from a member who has said Bangkok Bank require a TIN in order to open a new account.  Are you stating that the member is lying? 

 

I have said in another post to you I have to supply my Tax File Number to my bank/s in Australia or the interest is taxed at the highest marginal rate.  Why couldn't / wouldn't Thai banks implement a similar policy?  This would basically force all account holders to supply their bank a TIN. 

 

As for speculation, the Thai government announced the laws will apply starting 1st January 2024.  That was not speculation, that is fact.  

 

I think many members are speculating there will be no tax collection in 2025, for a variety of reasons, but the Thai government has put people on notice that this tax law will be implemented, and I don't see the speculation in that, as time ticks by in this Thai financial / calendar year.   

[EVENKEEL]

3 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

Where did you get the indication that it's all up in the air? I thought there were enough threads already, with a lot of CREDIBLE sources, that leave no doubt that the taxation is a fact and will happen

There are threads with posters with nothing else to do with their free time than post. They use long drawn out sentences to basically say nothing of value. Probably the same people who have a booster twice a year and still wear a mask.

[bubblegum]

This guy is a professional and according to him things are still in the air.

[topt]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

We have a post from a member who has said Bangkok Bank require a TIN in order to open a new account.  Are you stating that the member is lying? 

Conflation - and you know it

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

I have said in another post to you I have to supply my Tax File Number to my bank/s in Australia or the interest is taxed at the highest marginal rate.  Why couldn't / wouldn't Thai banks implement a similar policy?  This would basically force all account holders to supply their bank a TIN. 

I can equally give you an example of a country where it doesn't happen - so what.

 

You have been going down the whatiffery worst case possibilities for some months now - don't you ever get tired of spouting the same old stuff.......

Sorry stupid question on my part. What was I thinking........

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

This guy is a professional

In your opinion.

 

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

according to him things are still in the air

He doesn't say that

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, bubblegum said:

This guy is a professional and according to him things are still in the air.

A lot of opinion, but not much fact and relevance.  Example: I couldn't care less about how well the Thai economy is doing, or how well their tourism industry is going, but he commented on these. 

 

All he did was take some quotes from a news article and give his opinion about it. 

 

Yes, the collection part of the policy is up in the air, and we will have to wait until early 2025 to see how they go about it, but they announced they will be enforcing the policy, and as of late June, for anyone who has been in Thailand since the 1st January 2024, you are now a tax resident of Thailand, so you are in the game. 

[Everyman]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

We have a post from a member who has said Bangkok Bank require a TIN in order to open a new account.  Are you stating that the member is lying? 

 

I have said in another post to you I have to supply my Tax File Number to my bank/s in Australia or the interest is taxed at the highest marginal rate.  Why couldn't / wouldn't Thai banks implement a similar policy?  This would basically force all account holders to supply their bank a TIN. 

 

As for speculation, the Thai government announced the laws will apply starting 1st January 2024.  That was not speculation, that is fact.  

 

I think many members are speculating there will be no tax collection in 2025, for a variety of reasons, but the Thai government has put people on notice that this tax law will be implemented, and I don't see the speculation in that, as time ticks by in this Thai financial / calendar year.   

 

 

The TIN was his American social security number to comply with US FACTA laws. Nobody else has been asked for a THAI Thai ID. 

 

Everyone keeps waiting for these enforcement milestones and then nothing happens. So they say oh, it will begin at the next milestone. And then nothing happens. 

 

In five years people will still be banging on about it and nothing will have happened.

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, topt said:

Conflation - and you know it

Deflection - and you know it. 

 

12 minutes ago, topt said:

I can equally give you an example of a country where it doesn't happen - so what.

So what you ask, well, how do YOU know whether Thai banks will do the same as Australia and other countries, or do the same as the other countries where is doesn't happen? 

 

You just dismiss it as an impossibility, despite a member posting he was required to supply a TIN before he could open an account.  What does that tell you? 

 

Do you think it's even remotely possible Bangkok Bank will contact account holders in the future and give them a date by which they have to also supply a TIN.  I gave the example where we all had to register our sim cards, but you say there's no way banks would do it.  It's laughable. 

 

15 minutes ago, topt said:

You have been going down the whatiffery worst case possibilities for some months now - don't you ever get tired of spouting the same old stuff.......

Sorry stupid question on my part. What was I thinking..

Not every one is an "ostrich" like yourself.  Burying their head in the sand and hoping it all goes away. 

 

Question for you.  Say it was to "all go away" how do you think the Thai's would do it?  Do you think between January to March 2025 if all foreigners do nothing then nothing will happen, carry on as before? 

 

Tell me how you think the Thai's will withdraw from this policy, particularly as there is MONEY involved. 

[JohnnyBD]

3 hours ago, topt said:

In many of your posts unfortunately........(all bank account holders to produce a TIN for one........)

I recently opened 3 accounts at SCB (USD, THB & joint accts), and was NOT required to have a Thai TIN number. So, any statements that all bank account holders are required to have Thai TIN numbers are incorrect. I was required to give them my US TIN number. What happens in the future is just a guess.

Edited July 21 by JohnnyBD

[KhunHeineken]

3 minutes ago, Everyman said:

 

 

The TIN was his American social security number to comply with US FACTA laws. Nobody else has been asked for a THAI Thai ID. 

 

Everyone keeps waiting for these enforcement milestones and then nothing happens. So they say oh, it will begin at the next milestone. And then nothing happens. 

 

In five years people will still be banging on about it and nothing will have happened.

Could it be because the Thai financial / income year is the calendar year and that doesn't until the 31st December 2024? 

 

He said "TIN."  I took that to be a Thai "Tax Identification Number."  It could be his US number, so perhaps I have misunderstood.  Do you know the member personally?

[motdaeng]

19 minutes ago, Everyman said:

Everyone keeps waiting for these enforcement milestones and then nothing happens. So they say oh, it will begin at the next milestone. And then nothing happens. 

 

In five years people will still be banging on about it and nothing will have happened.

 

there have been many meetings and discussions between different embassies and the TRD.

and that for a reason ... (the smal tax law change have been done also for a reason!)

 

the TRD already has the foreigner on their "fishing hook". do you think they will just let the money go away,

and tell everyone  it was a misunderstanding? i don't think so, but it may be chaotic and will take time to

implement everything ...

 

Edited July 21 by motdaeng
add

[EVENKEEL]

57 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Could it be because the Thai financial / income year is the calendar year and that doesn't until the 31st December 2024? 

 

He said "TIN."  I took that to be a Thai "Tax Identification Number."  It could be his US number, so perhaps I have misunderstood.  Do you know the member personally?

I went to Bangkok Bank to open account. They gave me paperwork that said TIN on top. I stopped and left, I only figured it was for Thai ID number. Not doing it.

[CallumWK]

I'm sure that in the future, if you have a long stay visa, you will be required to have a tax id, regardless if you transfer money or not, and banks will ask for that if you want to open an account.

 

I have noticed that ALL 3 banks I have opened an account in the last 3 - 4 months, request passport with long stay visa, pink card - yellow book  AND driver license.