Israel Hamas War the Widening Middle East Conflict

[Nick Carter icp]

6 hours ago, stevenl said:

Nethanyahu has demanded the unifil soldiers depart lebanon.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-pm-netanyahu-urges-un-evacuate-peacekeepers-combat-areas-lebanon-2024-10-13/

 

He wants no witnesses.

 

   He wants fewer casualties 

 

“Your refusal to evacuate the UNIFIL soldiers makes them hostages of Hezbollah. This endangers both them and the lives of our soldiers." “We regret the injury to the UNIFIL soldiers and we are doing everything in our power to prevent this injury. But the simple and obvious way to ensure this is simply to get them out of the danger zone,” Netanyahu stated."

 

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-824368

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/12/2024 at 2:39 PM, Neeranam said:

Just when you think it can't get any worse.

Joe, how about stop funding them. 

US urges Israel to stop shooting at UN peacekeepers in Lebanon

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2ek2gkp9k2o

 

 

Seems netanyahu thinks he can order the UN around. Just who does he think he is? Without the US to protect him, he'd likely be in an israeli prison for his crimes ( from before the October 7 attack ).

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/netanyahu-israel-un-peacekeepers-lebanon-hezbollah/

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called on United Nations peacekeepers to heed the Israeli military's warnings to evacuate Lebanon immediately as the fighting intensifies amid Israel's ground operation.

 

 

 

Unless the IDF isn't taking orders from netanyahu and is doing whatever it likes, netanyahu ordered israeli tanks to attack a UN base in Lebanon.

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/un-says-israeli-tanks-forced-entry-to-its-lebanon-base-netanyahu-tells-peacekeepers-to-leave/hmi8lmmd5

The UNIFIL peacekeeping force said two Israeli Merkava tanks destroyed the main gate of a base and forcibly entered before dawn on Sunday morning (local time).

 

The UN force said any deliberate attack on peacekeepers was a grave violation of international humanitarian law.

 

France and Spain, which each have nearly 700 soldiers in the force,

have also condemned the Israeli attacks

.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

If the UNIFIL forces had done their job properly and stopped Hezbollah terrorists from attacking Israel,  there wouldn't have been any need for Israelto cross the Blue Line.  

 

I'll believe in UNIFIL the day its units actually try to disarm Hezbollah, which is at best a private militia but in reality a terrorist group.  

The UNIFIL isn't there to assist israel, which you would know from a reading on a reputable source about it.

 

If you have a problem with what it does, you could take that up with the UN.

 

NB the mandate is to restore peace and security in the border region, which is in Lebanon, nothing about in israel.

 

The mandate is:

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5150044/un-peacekeepers-lebanon-israel-united-nations

UNIFIL’s specific mandate in southern Lebanon was to confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces, restore peace and security in the border region and assist the Lebanese government in reestablishing control in the southern part of the country.

 

UNIFIL’s rules of engagement allow the use of force only if necessary for self-defense or to carry out its duties.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:32 AM, Neeranam said:

Let’s not forget the atrocities in Gaza.

 

At least 34 Palestinians killed in Israeli attacks today

 

Our colleagues on the ground are reporting, quoting medical sources, that at least 34 people have been killed in Israeli air attacks across Gaza since dawn on Sunday.

This includes five children who were killed when an Israeli drone struck them as they were playing near a cafe in Shati refugee camp.

 

https://aje.io/epfyox?update=3244564

I was going to post about that, but you beat me to it.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just happened a while ago. A major drone attack on the Golani brigade in israel evaded israeli air defences and injured many and possibly 3 dead.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dozens-injured-hezbollah-attack-israel-1968310

The AP shared Israeli rescue services reports that said at least 40 people were injured after the Lebanese militant group said it had launched a "swarm of drones" at the Golani Brigade's camp in the northern Israeli town of Binyamina, about 30 miles south of Haifa.

At least three people were "critically" injured, according to the AP, which shared footage of a helicopter arriving at Sheba Medical Center with the injured.

The drones reportedly did not trigger Israel's alarm system.

[thaibeachlovers]

From a different source about the attack on the Golani Brigade.

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/10/13/more-than-60-wounded-in-hezbollah-drone-attack-on-israeli-military-site

 

More than 60 wounded in Hezbollah drone attack on Israeli military site

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

If the UNIFIL forces had done their job properly and stopped Hezbollah terrorists from attacking Israel,  there wouldn't have been any need for Israelto cross the Blue Line.  

 

I'll believe in UNIFIL the day its units actually try to disarm Hezbollah, which is at best a private militia but in reality a terrorist group.  

They couldn't and were not tasked with that.

[Evil Penevil]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The UNIFIL isn't there to assist israel, which you would know from a reading on a reputable source about it.

 

If you have a problem with what it does, you could take that up with the UN.

 

NB the mandate is to restore peace and security in the border region, which is in Lebanon, nothing about in israel.

 

The mandate is:

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5150044/un-peacekeepers-lebanon-israel-united-nations

UNIFIL’s specific mandate in southern Lebanon was to confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces, restore peace and security in the border region and assist the Lebanese government in reestablishing control in the southern part of the country.

 

UNIFIL’s rules of engagement allow the use of force only if necessary for self-defense or to carry out its duties.

 

33 minutes ago, stevenl said:

They couldn't and were not tasked with that.

 

I am well aware of the U.N. mandate, but we obviously have very different interpretations of the meaning of "restore peace and security in the border region and assist the Lebanese government in reestablishing control in the southern part of the country."   Hezbollah operates as an independent military force in Lebanon without the slightest control by  the Lebanese government.  Disarming Hezbollah is the only way  peace, security and Lebanese government control can be reestablished.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

 

 

I am well aware of the U.N. mandate, but we obviously have very different interpretations of the meaning of "restore peace and security in the border region and assist the Lebanese government in reestablishing control in the southern part of the country."   Hezbollah operates as an independent military force in Lebanon without the slightest control by  the Lebanese government.  Disarming Hezbollah is the only way  peace, security and Lebanese government control can be reestablished.

 

 

In an ideal world! In the real world it pays to be realistic.

 

Given that Hezbollah is too large a force for the Lebanese government ( which no longer really functions anyway ) to eliminate, and it's also too strong for UNIFIL to defeat ( and no sane western government would send troops to try anyway ) that means the only force that could try would be the IDF and they got punished the last time they tried to do that. Given the lack of victory speeches by netanyahu, one suspects that the IDF isn't doing too well on the ground in southern Lebanon this time around either. The bombing campaign has not even stopped them sending missiles and drones, given the successful drone attack on the Golani brigade.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The UNIFIL isn't there to assist israel, which you would know from a reading on a reputable source about it.

 

If you have a problem with what it does, you could take that up with the UN.

 

NB the mandate is to restore peace and security in the border region, which is in Lebanon, nothing about in israel.

 

The mandate is:

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5150044/un-peacekeepers-lebanon-israel-united-nations

UNIFIL’s specific mandate in southern Lebanon was to confirm the withdrawal of Israeli forces, restore peace and security in the border region and assist the Lebanese government in reestablishing control in the southern part of the country.

 

UNIFIL’s rules of engagement allow the use of force only if necessary for self-defense or to carry out its duties.

You missed out a whole chunk of their mandate since the UN Security Council Resolution 1701:

 

"Under SC Resolution 1701, UNIFIL's mandate was expanded, giving it new duties:[8]

Monitor the cessation of hostilities.
Accompany and support the Lebanese armed forces as they deploy throughout the South, including along the Blue Line, as Israel withdraws its armed forces from Lebanon.
Coordinate its activities referred to in the preceding paragraph (above) with the Government of Lebanon and the Government of Israel.
Extend its assistance to help ensure humanitarian access to civilian populations and the voluntary and safe return of displaced persons.
Assist the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in taking steps towards the establishment between the Blue Line and the Litani river of an area free of any armed personnel, assets and weapons other than those of the Government of Lebanon and of UNIFIL deployed in this area.
Assist the Government of Lebanon, at its request, in securing its borders and other entry points to prevent the entry in Lebanon without its consent of arms or related materiel.
In addition, UNIFIL was also authorized to:

take all necessary action in areas of deployment of its forces and as it deems within its capabilities, to ensure that its area of operations is not utilized for hostile activities of any kind, to resist attempts by forceful means to prevent it from discharging its duties under the mandate of the Security Council, and to protect United Nations personnel, facilities, installations and equipment, ensure the security and freedom of movement of United Nations personnel, humanitarian workers and, without prejudice to the responsibility of the Government of Lebanon, to protect civilians under imminent threat of physical violence.[9]"

 

Further to that, just to make things simple for you, here are its failures:

 

"The United Nations has been criticised for failing to implement Resolution 1701 and its failure to dismantle or disarm Hezbollah and for failing to prevent it from deploying forces south of the Litani river per Resolution 1701.[49][50][51] According to one analyst, "since 2006, Hezbollah has instead fortified southern Lebanon, particularly towns and villages along the 120-kilometer-long (about 75-mile-long) demarcation line. It has built unauthorized firing ranges, stocked rockets in civilian infrastructure, built tunnels into Israel, and repeatedly stopped UNIFIL from accessing certain areas."[50] Since the 7 October Hamas massacre in Israel, Hezbollah has continued to fire hundreds of rockets into civilian areas of Northern Israel.[52] Approx. 300,000 Israeli civilians have been internally displaced and forced to flee south as a consequence of the bombardment and more than 2,000 civilian buildings destroyed by Hezbollah rockets.[53][54][55]"

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1701

 

10,000 UN forces there for years, toothless tigers costing a fortune and won't even move out of the way in an activ war zone where Israel is eliminating the terrorists and its infrastructure

[Evil Penevil]

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Some PLO relocated there but there was no invasion, as Israel are doing right now. 

Recocated?    That's a euphemistic way of saying the PLO leadership and thousands of heavily armed fighters entered Lebanon after the PLO was kicked out of Jordan during Black September in 1970.  At that time, the majority Christian Lebanese government certainly did see it as an invasion.  That was the first act of the Lebanese Civil War which destroyed what had been a stable little country

[Bkk Brian]

On 10/13/2024 at 9:08 AM, Neeranam said:

More killing of civilians in refugee camps.

 

At least 22 people, including women and children, have been killed in an Israeli attack on the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza as Israeli forces press on with their ground assault in the area.

https://aje.io/riyn9z

 

 

Tell Hamas to allow the civilians to evacuate instead of using them as human shields, never seen you denounce the root cause of tragic deaths.

 

"IDF issued new evacuation orders over the weekend to two neighborhoods in the northern edge of Gaza City, saying that the area was a “dangerous combat zone.” It urged residents to evacuate their homes and head to safe areas in the south. The Hamas-run interior ministry, however, instructed civilians to ignore the call to relocate to other areas in the north of the Strip, and also to avoid heading south"

 

Residents of Jabaliya, the largest of the enclave’s historic refugee camps, reported intensifying fighting between Hamas operatives and Israeli troops throughout the weekend.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldier-killed-in-southern-gaza-as-fighting-intensifies-around-jabaliya/

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just happened a while ago. A major drone attack on the Golani brigade in israel evaded israeli air defences and injured many and possibly 3 dead.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dozens-injured-hezbollah-attack-israel-1968310

The AP shared Israeli rescue services reports that said at least 40 people were injured after the Lebanese militant group said it had launched a "swarm of drones" at the Golani Brigade's camp in the northern Israeli town of Binyamina, about 30 miles south of Haifa.

At least three people were "critically" injured, according to the AP, which shared footage of a helicopter arriving at Sheba Medical Center with the injured.

The drones reportedly did not trigger Israel's alarm system.

Thanks, shows how much work is still to be done to eliminate them or destroy their capabilities so they cannot keep indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel.

[Evil Penevil]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Hezbollah is too large a force for the Lebanese government ( which no longer really functions anyway ) to eliminate, and it's also too strong for UNIFIL to defeat ...

 You are basically agreeing with what I wrote earlier, that UNIFIL is unable to fulfill its mandate. It is true UNIFIL does present a serious obstacle  to any Israeli campaign to destroy Hezbollah strongholds and weapon depots in South Lebanon.

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems netanyahu thinks he can order the UN around. Just who does he think he is? Without the US to protect him, he'd likely be in an israeli prison for his crimes ( from before the October 7 attack ).

It does seem that way. 

I blame the USA, who continue to be complicit in the Genocide. They supply the bombs. They could stop the atrocities immediately. 

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, Evil Penevil said:

 You are basically agreeing with what I wrote earlier, that UNIFIL is unable to fulfill its mandate. It is true UNIFIL does present a serious obstacle  to any Israeli campaign to destroy Hezbollah strongholds and weapon depots in South Lebanon.

 

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Recocated?    That's a euphemistic way of saying the PLO leadership and thousands of heavily armed fighters entered Lebanon after the PLO was kicked out of Jordan during Black September in 1970.  At that time, the majority Christian Lebanese government certainly did see it as an invasion.  That was the first act of the Lebanese Civil War which destroyed what had been a stable little country

Hezbollah are Lebanese citizens, so they invaded themselves? 

 

Israeli 'campaign' - come on say it as it is. 

Was the destruction of Gaza a campaign in your mind? 

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

 

Hezbollah are Lebanese citizens, so they invaded themselves? 

 

Israeli 'campaign' - come on say it as it is. 

Was the destruction of Gaza a campaign in your mind? 

Hezbollah is a terrorist state within a state stop defending the murderers

[Evil Penevil]

xxxxxxxx

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Hezbollah are Lebanese citizens, so they invaded themselves? 

 

My comments were referring to the invasion of Lebanon by the PLO  (Palestinian Liberation Organization) after the PLO had been driven out of Jordan by the Jordanian army in 1970, aka Black September.    Hezbollah wasn't formed until 1982.   Hezbollah didn't invade Lebanon in 1970, the PLO did.

 

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Israeli 'campaign' - come on say it as it is. 

Was the destruction of Gaza a campaign in your mind? 

 

Definitely.  It was a campaign with the strategic goal of ending Hamas as a fighting force  The destruction  of buildings and other infrastructure in Gaza is a consequence of Hamas' members hiding among the civilian population and  trying to use them as human shields.

[Social Media]

A post making unsubstaniated claims has been removed.

[Neeranam]

12 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

Definitely.  It was a campaign with the strategic goal of ending Hamas as a fighting force  The destruction  of buildings and other infrastructure in Gaza is a consequence of Hamas' members hiding among the civilian population and  trying to use them as human shields.

Are you OK with the IDF bombing refugee camps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_camp_airstrikes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war

 

[Neeranam]

 More bombings of camps for displaced Palestinians. 

Four people have been confirmed dead and about 70 injured after Israeli jets bombed a tented camp housing displaced Palestinians in the grounds of Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in Deir el-Balah.
The death toll is expected to rise as rescue teams scramble to rescue survivors.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/10/14/live-22-dead-80-wounded-as-israeli-army-shells-gaza-school-shelter

[coolcarer]

28 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Are you OK with the IDF bombing refugee camps?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee_camp_airstrikes_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war

 

Are you ok with Hamas hiding out and setting up command centers in refugee camps?

[Evil Penevil]

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Are you OK with the IDF bombing refugee camps?

 

 @coolcarer answered for me:

 

3 hours ago, coolcarer said:

Are you ok with Hamas hiding out and setting up command centers in refugee camps?

 

Hamas uses the camps to hide tunnel systems, command centers and weapons' depots.  Some top Hamas commanders live in or near the camps.  It's tragic Hamas has so little regard for the lives of its own people that it forces them to become human shields.

[thaibeachlovers]

The IDF killed many civilians  in the north of Lebanon, far from the fighting.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-lebanon-hezbollah-news-10-14-2024-70c8cf5a93eec9ea643a5fda5670da93

 

AITO, Lebanon (AP) — An Israeli airstrike hit an apartment building in northern Lebanon on Monday, killing at least 21 people, according to the Lebanese Red Cross.

There was no immediate comment from the Israeli military and it was not clear what the target was. The strike hit a small apartment building in the village of Aito, which is part of the country’s Christian heartland in the north and far from the Hezbollah militant group’s main areas of influence in the south and east.

[Bkk Brian]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The IDF killed many civilians  in the north of Lebanon, far from the fighting.

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-lebanon-hezbollah-news-10-14-2024-70c8cf5a93eec9ea643a5fda5670da93

 

AITO, Lebanon (AP) — An Israeli airstrike hit an apartment building in northern Lebanon on Monday, killing at least 21 people, according to the Lebanese Red Cross.

There was no immediate comment from the Israeli military and it was not clear what the target was. The strike hit a small apartment building in the village of Aito, which is part of the country’s Christian heartland in the north and far from the Hezbollah militant group’s main areas of influence in the south and east.

How do you know there were many civilians killed? Your link does not say that. 

[Bkk Brian]

Neta, the mother of one of the hostages speaking to the UN a couple of days ago about her elderly mother who was held hostage in Gaza for 53 days by an @UNRWA teacher.

 

 

[Will B Good]

On 8/4/2024 at 10:48 AM, Yellowtail said:

I don't think it is bad. 

Except that they were refusing to negotiate, and only holding out for concessions that the other side is not willing to concede. 

It does not start over; it just continues with new negotiators that may be more willing to negotiate. 

 

 

 

 

....or less.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

 

 

....or less.

How? 

[Bkk Brian]

Current state of play............

 

1. Hezbollah says Lebanon truce depends on Gaza.

2. A Gaza truce depends on a hostage release.

3. A hostage release depends on Hamas.

4. Hamas tunnel rat refuses to talk 

5.The Iranian regime controls Hezbollah.

6. Rinse - Repeat.

 

Hezbollah signals Lebanon truce depends on Gaza, says it aims to cause Israel pain

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-relinks-lebanon-truce-to-gaza-says-new-tactics-aim-to-inflict-pain-on-israel/

[rabas]

13 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Current state of play............

1. Hezbollah says Lebanon truce depends on Gaza.

2. A Gaza truce depends on a hostage release.

3. A hostage release depends on Hamas.

4. Hamas tunnel rat refuses to talk 

5.The Iranian regime controls Hezbollah.

6. Rinse - Repeat.

 

Hezbollah signals Lebanon truce depends on Gaza, says it aims to cause Israel pain

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hezbollah-relinks-lebanon-truce-to-gaza-says-new-tactics-aim-to-inflict-pain-on-israel/

 

Rinse - Repeat until:  

There are many reports but currently being verified.