Warning! New Retirement Visa Rules - Hope This Is Of Interest.

[backflip]

"I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. "

Exactly. Why most of the posters have such a difficult time treating the Officers politely and with respect, is beyond me. I only go to Immigration when necessary and, as with many offices, they move things around. I lost my bearings, and asked an officer at a desk where I should be. Rather cooly, she pointed in one direction. Shortly thereafter, I realized I should be elsewhere and, when my number was called, I was attended to by Officer Ice. As soon as she realized it, she laughed, and I joined in, and she apologized for her behavior. I told her there was no offense taken, and my retirement visa extension was completed in 5 minutes. Wouldn't it have been the perfect time to raise my voice and yelled at her? Of course. Wouldn't it have caused her offense and embarrassment if I did? Of course, and that's the tact that many TVers would have taken. Wouldn't it have been a perfect time to post this as a "scam" operated by rude and inefficient Officers? Of course, and you can read posts as that all day long. Too often, TVers forget that we're all human, and we all make mistakes.

[Lance_A_Lot]

"I can see your point but do you really believe that having to show 800k in a bank account ... to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult?"

Yes, comparatively, Thailand is easy to retire in. I believe that in order to qualify for a retirement visa in Malaysia, one needs to document a monthly income of $2500. U.S.

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

[PeaceBlondie]

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

But of course if you qualify by pension income alone, you shouldn't need one satang in a Thai bank account. Theoretically. But I keep money in a Thai bank account anyway, and that's why I had to jump on my motosai to get a bank statement last year, even though I was overqualified by pension alone.

[JR Texas]

This may make two more things (or four unless they think of six more) to worry about to renew my annual retirement visa in October/November. Take last year's embassy statement and try to get it certified by the MFA in Bangkok, but by then it may be a year old...and... Get a new 30 baht health certificate which wasn't needed last year. Maybe go back to the US Consulate for a new pension letter (about 1,500 baht) and get that one certified (more money). And then worry that the same office that accepted last year's online statements from my home bank as proof that I withdraw the pension at Thai ATM's, may require original monthly bank statements that never existed. Or, this year they might ask for ATM slips that I've never kept because they never required them. Or, maybe they'll require fingerprinting or toenail clippings for DNA samples, or a police clearance report from Zimbabwe, translated to Urdu. by the Thai embassy in Antarctica....

Thanks.......great post! Now I understand......really, you are joking but it seems close to reality to me. I sure hope all of this changes for the better in the future, but I just don't see it happening. That would require an admission that a mistake was made with regard to the way foreigners are being treated by immigration.........and that would result in a loss of face........so experience tells me that in the future they may require a "police clearance report from Zimbabwe translated into Urdu."

[JetsetBkk]

I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. Yes, they are mind readers, these Gods of all matters migratory, and they spend an entire career reading the minds of shifty, beady-eyed farang who seeth with resentment against their authority. Those uniforms mean they are police officers, with the power that implies, able to make arbitrary decisions that are almost not subject to review or appeal.

I don't just wear trousers and a nice shirt when I go to visit the Immigration Gods. I give them a wai that I might otherwise reserve for a monk or senior teacher, even if they're a young cleark. I smile, and smile, even when they ask me to take my clothes off. I'm willing to pass the Circumcision Test for the Immigration Gods, if they will please just give me another annual extension. What if they ask for a bank statement, when I've already overqualified by the pension method? Yes sir, God, you betcha, and I jumped on my motosai and returned in about 50 minutes with a fresh bank statement, which was not needed. Do they ask for another photo, or yet another page of my passport photocopied? Hey, it's only a few baht and the shop is right there on the grounds of the Gods.

I spent my career as an IRS God, and I was a great mind reader. One guy got really disrespectful, so the boss and I called two IRS police who brought .357 Magnums into the room to make the guy behave, and then they escorted him to his car. Do not tug on Superman's cape; don't let God know you do not believe in the power of the Immigration Gods.

This post is not directed at any specific poster. As the old story goes about the <deleted> bird, if the <deleted> shits, wear it.

A very good summary, could not have written it better, exactly my attitude with the Gods

Great post, made my day !

Make that 5 of us (so far)! Perfect!

This post is not directed at any specific poster.

Maybe not, but a few names spring to mind.

If the attitude that some people are showing in this thread is taken to the immigration office, I'm not surprised they have problems.

Edited August 8, 2007 by JetsetBkk

[JetsetBkk]

"Immigration Gods"

i am getting more and more curious reading all that interesting experience with immigration. keep on reporting and i might go and meet one of these "Gods" personally. never had the pleasure until now.

You'll find that once you've been a few times, you will remember them and they will remember you. Then you can genuinely smile when you see them - like greeting an old friend.

Hmm, OK, maybe not quite like an old friend , but at least you'll realise they are simply people doing their job, not terrifying monsters waiting to pounce.

[PeaceBlondie]

A movie title springs to mind: we are Children of a Lesser God.

[JetsetBkk]

A movie title springs to mind: we are Children of a Lesser God.

Is that because of a "communication breakdown" or because some posters appear to be deaf?

[selftaopath]

Call me a cynic but I really think anti-foreigner sentiment is getting out of hand.

Rich

Hi Rich, perhaps all us farangs feel a sence of "anti-foreigner esntiment." I wonder what prevents our respective Mother countries from taking a reciprocating stance re: Thailand's approach to foreigners. Recently I wondered - of course would never happen - what it would be like in LOS if all farangs took a one month's vactaion out of Thailand, to perhaps???? Cambodia. Humn, I wonder if "anyone would notice." Or perhaps is the self sufficiency ideology meaning that all farangs not be part of Thailand's economy?

Takes some ponering on my part- but with no end result.

Keoki

[RichardEllis]

I apologise for that previous posting, just problems with no solutions.

As I said in my very first post (that was my 3rd) the basic intentions are clear, however they may have been badly translated into English or even misunderstood by some of the immigration officials. As a result they have been interpreted differently in different immigration offices. In Phuket they are clear and have been laid out by the local Immigration Captain in English.

1. Hold a valid non-immigrant O visa.

2. Be 50 years of age, or older.

3. Have income from one of these sources:

3.1 Pension, Social Security, Interest or Dividend of not less than 65,000 baht per month.

or

3.2 Have not less than 800,000 baht deposited in any Thai bank account (savings or fixed-term account) for not less than three months before the application date. Account name must be only in the applicant’s name or may be a joint account in the name of the applicant and his/her registered married spouse only.

or

3.3 The applicant’s total income derived from 3.1 expected to be received over the 12-month period being applied for PLUS the money deposited in a Thai bank account for at least three months must not be less than 800,000 baht.

Application documents required:

1. Application form (TM7), which is provided by Immigration office.

2. A recent 2 x 2-inch photos of applicant.

3. Copy of passport (copy of face page and page with most recent Thai visa).

4. Evidence of income:

4.1 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of receiving income while staying in Thailand (as listed in 3.1), the documents must be issued by the original source less than one month before the application date.

The applicant must show proof that money received from the above sources is spent in Thailand, such as Thai bankbooks and evidence of Thai credit card and cash card transactions.

4.2 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of having 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account, applicants must provide a letter from the Thai bank and a copy of the bankbook showing the three months before the application date, proving that there is 800,000 in the account.

If the account has the spouse’s name, applicant must provide a copy of the marriage license.

4.3 In case of applicant applying for permit to stay on the basis of a combination of income and money deposited in a Thai bank account (see 3.3), applicants must show documents according to requirements listed in 4.2 and 4.3.

5. The Immigration Officer reviewing the application reserves the right to ask more additional documents.

Note: Any documents filed in languages other than Thai or English must be translated into Thai or English and the translation and the information the documents contain must be verified as accurate by the embassy or consul of the applicant’s home country.

The "intention" is that you should have either annual access to or income of THB 800,000.- from overseas per annum which you spend in Thailand. Yes, you can argue that the rules are not clear or that they can be interpreted to suit yourself and sometimes the official will let it fly. Other times they won't. Rule 5 is the clincher, if they don't want you they will invoke that and ask for a document that you can't provide. Unfortunately many of my friends come here on a retirement visa and then hope to support themselves from the profits of a girlie bar. I don't think that is what the Thais had in mind when they offered retirement visas. You should be retired with income from overseas supporting your lifestyle. If you can live on earnings from Thailand then you should perhaps be looking for a work visa.

All of which is fair enough. The matter of a 'fresh' 800kbt rears its head again,. I am not sure I can see that intention in the rules you quoted. Is there anything to support or clarify that?

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

I'm going to jump in and point out one more thing that's barely been mentioned in the last 253 posts. ATTITUDE in front of the officers. Yes, they are mind readers, these Gods of all matters migratory, and they spend an entire career reading the minds of shifty, beady-eyed farang who seeth with resentment against their authority. Those uniforms mean they are police officers, with the power that implies, able to make arbitrary decisions that are almost not subject to review or appeal.

I don't just wear trousers and a nice shirt when I go to visit the Immigration Gods. I give them a wai that I might otherwise reserve for a monk or senior teacher, even if they're a young cleark. I smile, and smile, even when they ask me to take my clothes off. I'm willing to pass the Circumcision Test for the Immigration Gods, if they will please just give me another annual extension. What if they ask for a bank statement, when I've already overqualified by the pension method? Yes sir, God, you betcha, and I jumped on my motosai and returned in about 50 minutes with a fresh bank statement, which was not needed. Do they ask for another photo, or yet another page of my passport photocopied? Hey, it's only a few baht and the shop is right there on the grounds of the Gods.

I spent my career as an IRS God, and I was a great mind reader. One guy got really disrespectful, so the boss and I called two IRS police who brought .357 Magnums into the room to make the guy behave, and then they escorted him to his car. Do not tug on Superman's cape; don't let God know you do not believe in the power of the Immigration Gods.

This post is not directed at any specific poster. As the old story goes about the <deleted> bird, if the <deleted> shits, wear it.

LOL

Almost Delphic ain't it? I wonder what they are breathing in...

Rich

[JetsetBkk]

All of which is fair enough. The natter of a 'fresh' 800kbt rears its head again,. I am not sure I can see that intention in the rules you quoted. Is there anything to support or clarify that?

Rich

Absolutely not.

[RichardEllis]

Exactly. Why most of the posters have such a difficult time treating the Officers politely and with respect, is beyond me.

I can't imagine where this comes from, so far as I am aware nobody has said they don;t treat the Immigration people respectfully, as befits their noble station.

I only go to Immigration when necessary

You think some people go there for entertainment?

...and, as with many offices, they move things around. I lost my bearings, and asked an officer at a desk where I should be. Rather cooly, she pointed in one direction. Shortly thereafter, I realized I should be elsewhere and, when my number was called, I was attended to by Officer Ice. As soon as she realized it, she laughed, and I joined in, and she apologized for her behavior. I told her there was no offense taken, and my retirement visa extension was completed in 5 minutes. Wouldn't it have been the perfect time to raise my voice and yelled at her? Of course. Wouldn't it have caused her offense and embarrassment if I did? Of course, and that's the tact that many TVers would have taken. Wouldn't it have been a perfect time to post this as a "scam" operated by rude and inefficient Officers? Of course, and you can read posts as that all day long. Too often, TVers forget that we're all human, and we all make mistakes.

The problem with being obsequious is that it is easily mistaken for taking the piss, and even though their actions sometimes suggest otherwise, these people are not completely stupid.

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

Call me a cynic but I really think anti-foreigner sentiment is getting out of hand.

Rich

Hi Rich, perhaps all us farangs feel a sence of "anti-foreigner esntiment." I wonder what prevents our respective Mother countries from taking a reciprocating stance re: Thailand's approach to foreigners.

Hi. As satisfying as we may feel it to be if the biter gets bit, I doubt it will happen. Most of our governments don't consider Thais or Thailand to be very important.

Recently I wondered - of course would never happen - what it would be like in LOS if all farangs took a one month's vactaion out of Thailand, to perhaps???? Cambodia. Humn, I wonder if "anyone would notice." Or perhaps is the self sufficiency ideology meaning that all farangs not be part of Thailand's economy?

Takes some ponering on my part- but with no end result.

Keoki

Hmmm. For my part I will continue here for as long as I am tolerated, it suits me. The cost of living is low (though goods often cost more than (say) in Europe or USA). Many of the people are friendly if not very bright. The weather is pretty good and the Thai people and culture are interesting if not enlightening. When they no longer want me they will notify me of that fact and I will seek destinations more congenial.

There are many things about Thais that annoy me, but I should think there are many things about me that annoy them. Peaceful co-existence is sufficient, all the rest is mind games.

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[Jingthing]

"I can see your point but do you really believe that having to show 800k in a bank account ... to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult?"

Yes, comparatively, Thailand is easy to retire in. I believe that in order to qualify for a retirement visa in Malaysia, one needs to document a monthly income of $2500. U.S.

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

Completely incorrect about Malaysia. You can qualify on a one time deposit alone to get a visa for 5 or 10 years. Yes, it is a rather large deposit. No pension or income needed to show. A large chunk of this deposit can be withdrawn after one year to buy housing or for medical care.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

If the "intent" was that a fresh 800K must be spent annually (for Thailand, of course, it would be "nice" but as yet, not required) why don't they require pensioners to TRANSFER IN that amount each year? They don't. And they don't to account only qualifiers either. So anybody who says this is the "intent" is just guessing with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

I have another comment about dress. It is highly unusual for people to dress in a suit and tie at the Pattaya office. It is near the beach in a beach resort. While of course I agree wearing long pants, proper leather shoes, and a nice ironed shirt is a great idea, and wearing shorts and flip flops really is disrespectful to these authority figures, wouldn't showing up like for a business meeting in New York actually look suspicious?

Edited August 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[Krub]

Call me a cynic but I really think anti-foreigner sentiment is getting out of hand.

Rich

Hi Rich, perhaps all us farangs feel a sence of "anti-foreigner esntiment." I wonder what prevents our respective Mother countries from taking a reciprocating stance re: Thailand's approach to foreigners.

Hi. As satisfying as we may feel it to be if the biter gets bit, I doubt it will happen. Most of our governments don't consider Thais or Thailand to be very important.

Recently I wondered - of course would never happen - what it would be like in LOS if all farangs took a one month's vactaion out of Thailand, to perhaps???? Cambodia. Humn, I wonder if "anyone would notice." Or perhaps is the self sufficiency ideology meaning that all farangs not be part of Thailand's economy?

Takes some ponering on my part- but with no end result.

Keoki

Hmmm. For my part I will continue here for as long as I am tolerated, it suits me. The cost of living is low (though goods often cost more than (say) in Europe or USA). Many of the people are friendly if not very bright. The weather is pretty good and the Thai people and culture are interesting if not enlightening. When they no longer want me they will notify me of that fact and I will seek destinations more congenial.

There are many things about Thais that annoy me, but I should think there are many things about me that annoy them. Peaceful co-existence is sufficient, all the rest is mind games.

Rich

Gross derogatory generalisation speaking of the Thais 'most....friendly if not very bright'

I understand now why you go on and on about the way the rules are applied by different immigration officers

A bit more of the Mai Pen Rai spirit would work wonders, try it sometimes

Cheers

[Jingthing]

Please lets not get started on the poor education levels of Thais versus the West or Singapore or China. That is covered elsewhere. This thread is about visa issues. I am really not sure at all that mai bpen rai helps you at all when dealing with immigration officials, here or anymore.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

This thread is about visa issues.

Yes, 290 posts. If a mod was inclined, and had the time, it could probably be pruned down to about 100 useful posts. The rest - including this one - is just off-topic, anti-Thai, anti-immigration non-sense.

[Filer]

"I can see your point but do you really believe that having to show 800k in a bank account ... to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult?"

Yes, comparatively, Thailand is easy to retire in. I believe that in order to qualify for a retirement visa in Malaysia, one needs to document a monthly income of $2500. U.S.

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

Completely incorrect about Malaysia. You can qualify on a one time deposit alone to get a visa for 5 or 10 years. Yes, it is a rather large deposit. No pension or income needed to show. A large chunk of this deposit can be withdrawn after one year to buy housing or for medical care.

....."rather large deposit" is only twice the size of the Thai one and 60% can be withdrawn (and not topped up) after 1 yr as stated above. Plus foreign income/transfers into the country are guaranteed free of Malaysian tax, you can legally buy freehold properties, you are specifically allowed duty free import of household effects (rather then relying on goodwill of Customs) etc.

[pwllgrgn]

"I can see your point but do you really believe that having to show 800k in a bank account ... to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult?"

Yes, comparatively, Thailand is easy to retire in. I believe that in order to qualify for a retirement visa in Malaysia, one needs to document a monthly income of $2500. U.S.

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

Completely incorrect about Malaysia. You can qualify on a one time deposit alone to get a visa for 5 or 10 years. Yes, it is a rather large deposit. No pension or income needed to show. A large chunk of this deposit can be withdrawn after one year to buy housing or for medical care.

Hi

The requirements for Malaysia are;

Over 50 initial deposit of £21,428 (approx 1478103 baht)

Under 50 initial deposit of £42,857 (2956275 baht)

A vast majority of the property that can be bought is either condos, semi-detached or terrace houses with small gardens. They also look more expensive than Thailand.

You also have to prove that you have liquid assets of at least £50,000 (3449000 baht)

If you live in Sarawak the minimum price of the house you can purchase is £50,000 (3449000 baht))

Other states £35,714 (2463551 baht)

Cars are very expensive to buy even with the incentive of no sales tax.

[RichardEllis]

Gross derogatory generalisation speaking of the Thais 'most....friendly if not very bright'

I understand now why you go on and on about the way the rules are applied by different immigration officers

A bit more of the Mai Pen Rai spirit would work wonders, try it sometimes

Cheers

'tis only grossly derogatoryif it isn't true. I would be happy to provide evidence, and I believe I am qualified to comment. Without wanting to give offence, however much you may not like what is said, it behoves us all to recognise reality rather than live in some confected but unrealistic world.

Sorry if I transgressed upon your image of Thais but it probably needed shaking up. Perhaps some challenge of actual facts rather than a knee-jerk reaction based on assumptions about them and me?

As for 'going on and on'. I didn't think I 'went on and on...' I think I mentioned that they do indeed interpret differently and I think I said that once. is that 'going on and on'? Perhaps you would like to challenge that reality as well?

In any event, how would noting that officers interpret the same rules be explained by a low average IQ in Thailand? You lost me. I believe that someone else noted the government figures quoting about 90, would you not say that was a 'grossly derogatory' thing for the government to publish?

Perhaps it is me that is thick after all, in which case I look forward to you enlightening me. But please do so by PM or in another thread because you just went off-topic.

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

Please lets not get started on the poor education levels of Thais versus the West or Singapore or China. That is covered elsewhere. This thread is about visa issues. I am really not sure at all that mai bpen rai helps you at all when dealing with immigration officials, here or anymore.

Agreed.

Rich

[RichardEllis]

This thread is about visa issues.

Yes, 290 posts. If a mod was inclined, and had the time, it could probably be pruned down to about 100 useful posts. The rest - including this one - is just off-topic, anti-Thai, anti-immigration non-sense.

Hmm. The bulk of what has been said relates to facts. hardly off-topic or irrelevant since the facts as reported relate to the actual behaviour of the immigration officers and the government. If you are happy to write off people's relevant experience as just 'anti-Thai' or anti-immigration' nonsense, then you obviously have all the answers and could usefully share them rather than sniping at people reporting things you don't happen to like being true.

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

"I can see your point but do you really believe that having to show 800k in a bank account ... to get a 1 year extension of stay is difficult?"

Yes, comparatively, Thailand is easy to retire in. I believe that in order to qualify for a retirement visa in Malaysia, one needs to document a monthly income of $2500. U.S.

Again, keep in mind that for Retirement Vsa extension, it is the combination of bank deposit(s) plus yearly retirement income which must equal or exceed 800,000. Baht.

Completely incorrect about Malaysia. You can qualify on a one time deposit alone to get a visa for 5 or 10 years. Yes, it is a rather large deposit. No pension or income needed to show. A large chunk of this deposit can be withdrawn after one year to buy housing or for medical care.

Hi

The requirements for Malaysia are;

Over 50 initial deposit of £21,428 (approx 1478103 baht)

Under 50 initial deposit of £42,857 (2956275 baht)

A vast majority of the property that can be bought is either condos, semi-detached or terrace houses with small gardens. They also look more expensive than Thailand.

You also have to prove that you have liquid assets of at least £50,000 (3449000 baht)

If you live in Sarawak the minimum price of the house you can purchase is £50,000 (3449000 baht))

Other states £35,714 (2463551 baht)

Cars are very expensive to buy even with the incentive of no sales tax.

Sounds attractive, thanks for the info. A second line of defence if the Thai situation goes tits-up. Anyone know about Vietnam? I suspect it is going to be a country to watch.

Rich

[Maestro]

'tis only grossly derogatoryif it isn't true

derogatory: showing strong disapproval and not showing respect

Source: Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary

In other words, truth – or the lack of it – has nothing to do with a comment being, or not being, derogatory. However, the truth of a statement may make it not libellous.

--

Maestro

[JetsetBkk]

Yes, 290 posts. If a mod was inclined, and had the time, it could probably be pruned down to about 100 useful posts. The rest - including this one - is just off-topic, anti-Thai, anti-immigration non-sense.

Hmm. The bulk of what has been said relates to facts. hardly off-topic or irrelevant since the facts as reported relate to the actual behaviour of the immigration officers and the government. If you are happy to write off people's relevant experience as just 'anti-Thai' or anti-immigration' nonsense, then you obviously have all the answers and could usefully share them rather than sniping at people reporting things you don't happen to like being true.

Rich

No, I don't have all the answers, but I know where to get them: about four months before my extension is due, I'll go to immigration and ask them what they want from me. Meanwhile I'll keep reading this thread in case someone ever posts a link to an immigration statement about this change of requirements.

As for sharing my experiences, I already have:: 5 extensions with no problems, and 1 new passport with stamps transferred, also with no problems.

I still maintain that if you go to immigration with confidence and treat them like human beings, they'll be very happy to serve you. But, if you go there looking like a frightened rabbit, nervous, worried, etc, they will treat you accordingly, with suspicion - just like the customs guys do when you go through the "nothing to declare" exit.

[RichardEllis]

'tis only grossly derogatoryif it isn't true

derogatory: showing strong disapproval and not showing respect

Source: Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary

In other words, truth – or the lack of it – has nothing to do with a comment being, or not being, derogatory. However, the truth of a statement may make it not libellous.

--

Maestro

Sorry, your comment is of course quite right for the word 'derogatory' but is inadequate for the expression 'grossly derogatory' which carries a different connotation including distortion or falsehood.

Thanks for the pickup though. I wonder if this thread will make 300 posts?

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[RichardEllis]

Yes, 290 posts. If a mod was inclined, and had the time, it could probably be pruned down to about 100 useful posts. The rest - including this one - is just off-topic, anti-Thai, anti-immigration non-sense.

Hmm. The bulk of what has been said relates to facts. hardly off-topic or irrelevant since the facts as reported relate to the actual behaviour of the immigration officers and the government. If you are happy to write off people's relevant experience as just 'anti-Thai' or anti-immigration' nonsense, then you obviously have all the answers and could usefully share them rather than sniping at people reporting things you don't happen to like being true.

Rich

No, I don't have all the answers, but I know where to get them: about four months before my extension is due, I'll go to immigration and ask them what they want from me. Meanwhile I'll keep reading this thread in case someone ever posts a link to an immigration statement about this change of requirements.

As for sharing my experiences, I already have:: 5 extensions with no problems, and 1 new passport with stamps transferred, also with no problems.

I still maintain that if you go to immigration with confidence and treat them like human beings, they'll be very happy to serve you. But, if you go there looking like a frightened rabbit, nervous, worried, etc, they will treat you accordingly, with suspicion - just like the customs guys do when you go through the "nothing to declare" exit.

Nice use of colour, I didnt know you could do that! I will emulate your style immediately !

1. Lets hope when you get there, they give you the right/complete information and that it doesn't change twixt that visit and your actual extension application. I have every hope that they will, but I have lived in Thailand for 3 years, long enough to realise these basic requirements are not always met.

2. Yah, I also had 2 prior extensions, oddly enough, it was the same woman this time who gave me all the trouble. In previous years she was civility personified. This year she wanted to give me a 1-month extension because she was too lazy or stupid to see money had change banks but not diminished, at least until it was pointed out her superior had already approved the bank books. I didn't actually give much of a shit when she lost face because it was her own fault and therefore poetic justice.

3. Well, most will but you do get the pedant or the power-needy who will endeavour to assert their own whims without any right or reason. I re-iterate from a post in a different thread since it is relevant here as well:

This [complaint about the disparity of interpretation of immigration law between immigration centres] is said quite often, and it is probably true. But it shouldn't be. it should be about the law and what evidence you have that you meet the conditions required by law. All the other shit is what makes Thais a laughing stock. What is actually happening is the guy involved is abusing his position, which in a non-banana-republic would be actionable by appeal and complaints procedures.

It simply isn't about attitude, or dress, it is about the law. Applicants dont have to make a government clerk feel good, they have to show they comply with the law.

Rich

Edited August 8, 2007 by RichardEllis

[Jingthing]

Yes, 290 posts. If a mod was inclined, and had the time, it could probably be pruned down to about 100 useful posts. The rest - including this one - is just off-topic, anti-Thai, anti-immigration non-sense.

Hmm. The bulk of what has been said relates to facts. hardly off-topic or irrelevant since the facts as reported relate to the actual behaviour of the immigration officers and the government. If you are happy to write off people's relevant experience as just 'anti-Thai' or anti-immigration' nonsense, then you obviously have all the answers and could usefully share them rather than sniping at people reporting things you don't happen to like being true.

Rich

No, I don't have all the answers, but I know where to get them: about four months before my extension is due, I'll go to immigration and ask them what they want from me. Meanwhile I'll keep reading this thread in case someone ever posts a link to an immigration statement about this change of requirements.

As for sharing my experiences, I already have:: 5 extensions with no problems, and 1 new passport with stamps transferred, also with no problems.

I still maintain that if you go to immigration with confidence and treat them like human beings, they'll be very happy to serve you. But, if you go there looking like a frightened rabbit, nervous, worried, etc, they will treat you accordingly, with suspicion - just like the customs guys do when you go through the "nothing to declare" exit.

I am starting to get really annoyed about this so called change in enforcement.

We have more than one report that it is real, at least from Bangkok.

Those reports state they have been told this is indeed a new requirement, not a punishment for those who haven't dressed up to the standard or know how to properly high wai the officer (or kiss arse if you will), or are acting a little nervous. If this is true, this has NOTHING at all to do with the well understood situation that immigration CAN always ask for MORE information. The reports state there is a new regulation that they now MUST ask for this new document. Get the difference????

If this is true, this is dead serious to people. It could mean being booted out of Thailand completely unfairly for not having a piece of paper. A piece of paper so far nobody can definitely define, and a piece of paper many people will no longer be able to get because too much time has passed, and they were never told this paper would be vital to them in future. Maybe this doesn't effect your visa situation, but again, if this can happen to one category, it can happen to any category.

And as of yet, nobody has reported definitely exactly what cuts the standard as official proof of foreign transfers, except the Foreign Transfer Form good only for transfers over 20K USD. We have reports that people who thought they had excellent proof (those check sized receipts from the bank) were told that wasn't going to cut it, that they want something else.

WHAT IS THAT SOMETHING ELSE? Precisely, what is it?

Short of this, this thread is a big wank.

In the earlier days of this site, there were people working with the site who could provide reliable information direct from immigration about thorny matters like this. Has this assistance from the site ended for some reason or another?

There could be a positive result from this. Everyone who can still get these pieces of paper should indeed attempt to get them while it is still possible. The first step is definitive information on EXACTLY what they are requiring. If this is a real change, those who can't get the piece of paper because too much time has passed are SOL.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Jingthing