Rising Temperatures Threaten Thailand's Economy, Tourism, and Future

[connda]

7 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

A flat earther emerges. What complete drivel. Climate change is real and is happening now

So you're a Climate Change Conspiracy Theorist?  Thought so!  Go buy some super-glue and orange paint and vandalize public and private infrastructure.  That will fix thing, 'eh?

[connda]

7 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

A flat earther emerges. What complete drivel. Climate change is real and is happening now

You should hide under your bed.  The Climate Change monsters, Climate Grumpkins and Snarks, which are going to devour the planet won't be able to find you there.  You'll be invisible and safe. 

Edited August 10 by connda

[Cory1848]

12 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

A 'climate change denier' is a person who is so ignorant that he/she doesn't understand that climate is always changing and is never static. Over any chosen period, some parts of the world become slightly warmer, whilst other parts become slightly cooler. Some parts will become wetter, whilst other parts will become drier, and so on.

 

A 'climate change denier' is also someone who doesn't understand that climate change is a chaotic, non-linear system with a multitude of contributing factors which cannot be accurately measured.
Here's a relevant quote from Working Group 1 section of an IPCC report. 
 

"The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible." 

 

Can you show me actual evidence for the 'overwhelming consensus among actual climate scientists' that the current climate change is very much caused by human activity?

 

Science is not based upon consensus, but on evidence and data. Most journalists and politicians don't even seem to understand the difference between climate and weather, and cause and effect. How often have you read or heard on the media that a particular extreme weather event was caused by climate change. Climate Change is an effect, as a result of numerous influences, not a cause.

What you seem to be “denying” is the human cause of climate change since the Industrial Revolution, greatly accelerated in our own time. For evidence of “overwhelming consensus” among climate scientists on this point, you can start here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change

 

Some scholars I’ve worked with are skeptical of Wikipedia, but this article is well annotated, with 86 endnotes that lead to source documents you can refer to. There may be other causes for climate change as you point out such as natural cycles, but the human factor is undeniable. This is real science; all you have is a lot of “hot air” (pun intended).

 

Science is indeed based on evidence and data (and there’s a lot of that in the Wikipedia page and its source documents); consensus is what happens when scientists, working independently, reach the same conclusions after examining that evidence and data. And that consensus is 99 percent with regard to the reality of human agency in climate change.

[OneMoreFarang]

There is always something which will supposedly happen in the near or not so near future. And we have to act, now!

 

No, we don't have to act because some people did some research and then some others exaggerate anything they can find to support their misleading agendas.

Take it easy, and don't do anything extreme based on some models which are likely incorrect.

 

[impulse]

2 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

What you seem to be “denying” is the human cause of climate change since the Industrial Revolution, greatly accelerated in our own time. For evidence of “overwhelming consensus” among climate scientists on this point, you can start here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change

 

You lose the argument when you refer to Wikipedia as a reliable source.  It's become a meme.

 

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, Cory1848 said:

What you seem to be “denying” is the human cause of climate change since the Industrial Revolution, greatly accelerated in our own time. For evidence of “overwhelming consensus” among climate scientists on this point, you can start here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus_on_climate_change

 

Some scholars I’ve worked with are skeptical of Wikipedia, but this article is well annotated, with 86 endnotes that lead to source documents you can refer to. There may be other causes for climate change as you point out such as natural cycles, but the human factor is undeniable. This is real science; all you have is a lot of “hot air” (pun intended).

 

Science is indeed based on evidence and data (and there’s a lot of that in the Wikipedia page and its source documents); consensus is what happens when scientists, working independently, reach the same conclusions after examining that evidence and data. And that consensus is 99 percent with regard to the reality of human agency in climate change.

"What you seem to be “denying” is the human cause of climate change since the Industrial Revolution, greatly accelerated in our own time." 

 

I don't deny that human activities in total, including deforestation for agriculture, and the building of cities and roads, and the destruction of land to mine for minerals and fossil fuels, and so on, has had at least some effect on the climate. Everything is connected to some degree.

 

A major issue for me is the unscientific certainty, promoted through the media using the 'claimed' 97% consensus, that our CO2 emissions will eventually cause a climate catastrophe, and if we achieve 'net-zero' CO2 emissions, the climate will stop changing, or change for the better, and become benign.

 

This is in complete contrast to the IPCC statement that, "The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible." 

 

Surely everyone has experienced how inaccurate weather forecasts can be just a few days into the future. Why so many people seem to believe that scientists can predict the state of the climate, decades into the future, is bizarre.

[ourmanflint]

16 hours ago, connda said:

So you're a Climate Change Conspiracy Theorist?  Thought so!  Go buy some super-glue and orange paint and vandalize public and private infrastructure.  That will fix thing, 'eh?

No just someone who actually understands the science. I couldn't care less that you think it's all a big conspiracy, but I will make fun of you for believing such laughable nonsense

Edited August 11 by ourmanflint

[Purdey]

It is sad to see people discussing climate change without understanding the basics. 

1. Climate change is measured by taking the temperatures marked since collecting data started 100+ years ago. 

2. Climate change is the average temperature globally over time. 

3. It is not the temperature of Thailand alone, or any single country or city. 

4. It is not about the weather in any month or season.

 

Having said that find a graph of global temperature change over the past century and note that it continues to rise on average. 

[impulse]

On 8/10/2024 at 4:13 PM, RichardColeman said:

Can some explain what an increase of 60 million chinese tourists will do to travel emissions, local water consumption, demand on electric, sewage demand and mass destruction of sealife to Thailand 

 

The economic theory goes that they can use that sweaty tourist money (and not just RMB) to invest in projects to improve water treatment, solid waste disposal and other projects that improve the quality of life for everyone in Thailand, especially the natives.  But also the visitors.

 

Of course, that would require some discipline at the trough of corruption.  But I don't foresee that happening without a strong man at the helm.

 

Edit:  Which is why I don't suffer from Thaksin Derangement Syndrome.  He may not be the guy to do it.  But he's the only guy I've seen that's capable of enforcing that discipline.  But that's another topic for another thread.

 

Edited August 11 by impulse

[bkknirvana]

Of course, we must believe the data on climate because it actually stretches back almost 150 years!

 

How old is the earth again?

[spidermike007]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:47 AM, JimHuaHin said:

This will attract criticism, but ...

 

Firstly, the Earth is about 4.5 billions years old, has had an atmosphere for about 2-3 billion years, during which time the climate has been constantly changing.  What is of concern now is the very rapid rate of climate change to human-induced global warming (we are referring changes over decades, not millions of years).

 

Secondly, about 3-4 decades ago there were a few articles in the Thai media about Bangkok "sinking"; articles based on Thai academic research which has been largely ignored.  At least Indonesia now has firm plans to move its capital city, which is also "sinking".  In Thailand, mai pen rai.

 

Finally, for the last 1-2 decades there have been numerous reports of the potential impact of global warming on global economies and communities; reports that have alarmed some and been largely ignored by the powers-that-be.  Some of these reports, parts of which I have read, detail potential changes in Thai weather patterns and their social and economic impact.  Again, ignored by the powers that be.

 

If NASA discovers an asteroid/comet what will directly impact earth in the year 2100, say, global governments would respond.  But Earth-destroying global warming, not my problem.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people say and think. I am not responsible, I have not contributed to these problems, if they exist at all, and nothing that I do could possibly have an effect on some place as large as the earth or it's vast oceans.

 

So stop picking on me and stop asking me to take responsibility, because I won't. Plastic is not harmful and I won't make any attempt to cut down on my use of it. Gas vehicles are not harmful and therefore I will make no attempt to drive one that consumes less gas, or to use a bicycle, or even a motorbike. I like gas guzzlers, so again I ask please leave me alone. 

[spidermike007]

A lot of the concern about climate change manifests itself in a fairly subtle fashion, as the ocean levels rise even slight storm swells become a much greater concern and very low lying cities like Bangkok are greatly affected by increasing floods. But many people just simply prefer to live a life of denial. 

[Gknrd]

All the hot air coming out of the TOT's mouth could raise the temp several degree's alone.

 

[rickudon]

As far as Thailand goes, one factor stands out to me - no low temperatures anymore. When i first came to Thailand 16 years ago, In Isaan, the cold season was cold at night. You needed a duvet. In the morning you would see the locals shivering around wood fires early in the morning to warm up. Haven't seen that for at least 7 years. And sometimes even in cold season we now need the aircon on at night. The last 2 years have seen many days above average  daytime temperatures in April - used to be maybe 2-5 at 39C plus, now more like 6-10. Last 2 years have seen quite a few crop failures in the veg garden, when too hot. And fish dying in the heat, used to be dying in the cold.

 

I expect to be a climate refugee sometime in the 2030's, if still alive.

[BobDobbs]

Thailand is according to the article 1% of the world's global warming I don't know what that means but it's 1%.

 

Behind the scenes you can see Thailand trying to maneuver into the so-called green technologies. Money

 

Best thing that Thailand could do insofar as saving the world is stopping the burning up country and stopping the plastic being dumped in the ocean from fishing boats in particular.

 

This is such a laff and not surprised by woke aseannow. Not surprised these years. If this were real and serious why are private planes still being used? Yachts?! Rules for thee but not for me.

 

Remember...70s we were all going to get another ice age? Then it was acid rain, next ozone layer. Blah blah blah.

 

Cow farts lol. Remember? Cows don't even fart (rarely). Now, many farmers are calling BS and the propaganda machine has changed to cow burps. Denmark is already charging 100 euro a head

 

EVs are such a laff on so many levels. Now, THAT'S toxic pollution.

 

What it i

really is - an army of elites redirecting the future into their pockets.

 

EV farce are such a bs thing on a dozen levels. Huge waste of money. Solar and wind is a joke.

 

Carbon tax lol.

 

Got any of that cheap coastal property that's going under in next few years? I'm a buyer 👍

 

Telling poor and working people, those without children, modest homes they need to suck it up and pay more. It's always about more taxes.

 

All this gay, tranny, illegal immigration, endless wars rubbish is purposely there to cloud and confuse while the lizards continue to steal the people's money and the future. Then you have opportunist Israel genocide that's also provided cover from it's ensuing chaos. All smokescreen for the lizard people.

 

The elite want to kill us all off. Their nwo for their kids will be run with AI, robotics and all the water, petroleum, etc they can squander from the world.

 

I bet there's 200 years worth of petroleum, gas in the ground relatively easy to be extracted.

 

The West is going to get a rude awakening and I couldn't be happier. Go cry to your DEI HR representative

Edited August 12 by BobDobbs

[BobDobbs]

8 hours ago, rickudon said:

As far as Thailand goes, one factor stands out to me - no low temperatures anymore. When i first came to Thailand 16 years ago, In Isaan, the cold season was cold at night. You needed a duvet. In the morning you would see the locals shivering around wood fires early in the morning to warm up. Haven't seen that for at least 7 years. And sometimes even in cold season we now need the aircon on at night. The last 2 years have seen many days above average  daytime temperatures in April - used to be maybe 2-5 at 39C plus, now more like 6-10. Last 2 years have seen quite a few crop failures in the veg garden, when too hot. And fish dying in the heat, used to be dying in the cold.

 

I expect to be a climate refugee sometime in the 2030's, if still alive.

 

Agreed. Oceans appear to consistently be warming. It doesn't mean I am responsible for ANY of it. 4-5 years ago the weather was quite as I remember decades ago.

 

It's not been especially hot year in Bangkok 2024 imo.

 

One thing I think we know from covid models that can be extrapolated to global warming models is that the scientists are just paid shills. These models didn't work at all and don't work. Leftist Propaganda

Edited August 12 by BobDobbs

[john donson]

what about stopping burning fields, for a start

[Ben Zioner]

On 8/10/2024 at 8:41 AM, VincentRJ said:

Okay! I just checked the 'World Data info' for the history of extreme weather events in Thailand, and here are the results below.
https://www.worlddata.info/asia/thailand/climate.php#:~:text=Temperature records of the last,°C was reported here

 

1. With 8.90 hours of sunshine per day in February 2024, there was more sunshine than in any February in the last 17 years (9.10 hours in 2007).

 

2. With just 5.25 liters of precipitation in 2023, August was drier than it had been for 72 years (4.59 l/m² in 1951).

 

3. With only 13.67 days of rain, it rained less in August 2023 than it has for 14 years (13.21 days in 2009).

 

4. At 29.39°C, July 2023 was the warmest July in 36 years (29.46°C in 1987).

 

5. At 30.86°C, May 2023 was the warmest May in 31 years (30.93°C in 1992).

 

6. With just 0.38 liters of precipitation in 2023, March was drier than it had been for 31 years (0.05 l/m² in 1992).

 

The 'climate change alarmists' do not seem to understand that reports of an extreme weather event that is the worst in 20 years, or 50 years or 100 years, is not evidence of human-caused climate change. In fact, such reports would suggest that these temporary changes in weather patterns are mostly natural effects that occur without the effects of human activity.

You are a genius.

[Presnock]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

There is always something which will supposedly happen in the near or not so near future. And we have to act, now!

 

No, we don't have to act because some people did some research and then some others exaggerate anything they can find to support their misleading agendas.

Take it easy, and don't do anything extreme based on some models which are likely incorrect.

 

Are you talking about the world weather or the tax schemes in Thailand or the US presidential candidates?

[Cory1848]

22 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

"What you seem to be “denying” is the human cause of climate change since the Industrial Revolution, greatly accelerated in our own time." 

 

I don't deny that human activities in total, including deforestation for agriculture, and the building of cities and roads, and the destruction of land to mine for minerals and fossil fuels, and so on, has had at least some effect on the climate. Everything is connected to some degree.

 

A major issue for me is the unscientific certainty, promoted through the media using the 'claimed' 97% consensus, that our CO2 emissions will eventually cause a climate catastrophe, and if we achieve 'net-zero' CO2 emissions, the climate will stop changing, or change for the better, and become benign.

 

This is in complete contrast to the IPCC statement that, "The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible." 

 

Surely everyone has experienced how inaccurate weather forecasts can be just a few days into the future. Why so many people seem to believe that scientists can predict the state of the climate, decades into the future, is bizarre.

I think you’re obfuscating the issue. The vast consensus among climate scientists with respect to the effects of human activity is incontrovertible; it’s not something the media just made up. And I think the scientists have gotten pretty good at modeling. Many effects that were predicted decades ago are now happening.

 

As for your comparing inaccurate weather forecasts with long-term models created by climate scientists, now you’re the one mixing up “weather” and “climate.” Do I really need to point out that projecting the long-term effects of continued CO2 emissions is quite different from predicting whether or not it’s going to rain tomorrow?

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

 

Agreed. Oceans appear to consistently be warming. It doesn't mean I am responsible for ANY of it. 4-5 years ago the weather was quite as I remember decades ago.

 

It's not been especially hot year in Bangkok 2024 imo.

 

One thing I think we know from covid models that can be extrapolated to global warming models is that the scientists are just paid shills. These models didn't work at all and don't work. Leftist Propaganda

I am a retired scientist. I have never been paid anything for work related to climate.

 

Anyone with a knowledge of thermodynamics also knows climate change and global warming are inevitable consequences of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

 

Conservative models of the Tibetan plateau predict by 2050, water flows to the Ganges, Brahmaputra and Mekong will be halved. One billion people depend on those rivers to live. Those models don't include dams the Chinese are building.

 

If you find a stopper for those two laws, let me know. I'll be the first to nominate you for a Nobel Prize.

 

The attached is not a model. It's a fact.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Presnock said:

Are you talking about the world weather or the tax schemes in Thailand or the US presidential candidates?

They all have in common that they are not predictable. Many people try, but nobody really knows what will happen. 

[BobDobbs]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I am a retired scientist. I have never been paid anything for work related to climate.

 

Anyone with a knowledge of thermodynamics also knows climate change and global warming are inevitable consequences of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

 

Conservative models of the Tibetan plateau predict by 2050, water flows to the Ganges, Brahmaputra and Mekong will be halved. One billion people depend on those rivers to live. Those models don't include dams the Chinese are building.

 

If you find a stopper for those two laws, let me know. I'll be the first to nominate you for a Nobel Prize.

 

The attached is not a model. It's a fact.

 

I guess what I'm missing here and you have not mentioned whatsoever is my part in this.

 

I've been to Nepal, Pakistan Himalaya / Hindu Kush, Ladakh, Spiti, Kinnuar..and Tibet twice. While there is loads of snow and many of these regions. The Tibetan plateau that you've mentioned has little or no moisture / water. This is a total red herring. Tibetan plateau lol

 

Glaciers definitely melting.

 

Edit: Tibetan plateau receives at most 12 in a year in rainfall. You can get that in 3 hours and in a given day in Thailand. It's absolutely nothing.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Plateau

 

Finally sorry.. The Washington Post doesn't print facts.

 

I guess I should give Obama a ring and let him know that his mansion is going to be underwater in 20 years

Edited August 12 by BobDobbs

[BobDobbs]

1 hour ago, Cory1848 said:

think the scientists have gotten pretty good at modeling.

 

Yeah, those covid models were epic 555555555

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

 

I guess what I'm missing here and you have not mentioned whatsoever is my part in this.

 

I've been to Nepal, Pakistan Himalaya / Hindu Kush, Ladakh, Spiti, Kinnuar..and Tibet twice. While there is loads of snow and many of these regions. The Tibetan plateau that you've mentioned has little or no moisture / water. This is a total red herring. Tibetan plateau lol

 

Glaciers definitely melting.

 

Edit: Tibetan plateau receives at most 12 in a year in rainfall. You can get that in 3 hours and in a given day in Thailand. It's absolutely nothing.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Plateau

 

Finally sorry.. The Washington Post doesn't print facts.

 

I guess I should give Obama a ring and let him know that his mansion is going to be underwater in 20 years

I guess you took a Hercules loaded with instruments to Nepal and Tibet with you, then. So you could make statistically significant measurement at the interval level. I know, your eyes are so much better at quantifying data.

 

Thailand is 513,000 sq km in area. The Tibetan Plateau is 2.5 million sq km, not including its flanks. For a guy who claims to have been in those regions, you don't seem to have much idea of geography.

 

The Tibetan Plateau is a key factor in controlling weather and water supply in most of Asia.

 

While the exact number is unknown, it is estimated the Chinese have built or are building thousands of dams on the Tibetan Plateau. I guess you forgot to inform them there's no water there.

 

By mocking my post, you are simply putting your ignorance on display.

[BobDobbs]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I guess you took a Hercules loaded with instruments to Nepal and Tibet with you, then. So you could make statistically significant measurement at the interval level. I know, your eyes are so much better at quantifying data.

 

Thailand is 513,000 sq km in area. The Tibetan Plateau is 2.5 million sq km, not including its flanks. For a guy who claims to have been in those regions, you don't seem to have much idea of geography.

 

The Tibetan Plateau is a key factor in controlling weather and water supply in most of Asia.

 

While the exact number is unknown, it is estimated the Chinese have built or are building thousands of dams on the Tibetan Plateau. I guess you forgot to inform them there's no water there.

 

By mocking my post, you are simply putting your ignorance on display.

 

Thanks 👍

 

Put me down as COVID anti vaxxer as well.

[Lacessit]

Just now, BobDobbs said:

 

Thanks 👍

 

Put me down as COVID anti vaxxer as well.

I get it. You object to 0.5 mL of something going into your arm once a year. Shock horror.

 

Then, on average, you happily imbibe 5.5 litres of pure ethanol annually.

 

Which has been listed as a Class 1 carcinogen since 1989.

 

Scientists are such spoilsports, aren't they?

 

Cheers.

[BobDobbs]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Scientists are such spoilsports, aren't they?

 

 

I don't know about spoilsports but liars yes. Bought and paid.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

 

I don't know about spoilsports but liars yes. Bought and paid.

Nobody is paying me, I'd like it if someone did.

 

Do you always make sweeping generalizations?

[ourmanflint]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I am a retired scientist. I have never been paid anything for work related to climate.

 

Anyone with a knowledge of thermodynamics also knows climate change and global warming are inevitable consequences of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

 

Conservative models of the Tibetan plateau predict by 2050, water flows to the Ganges, Brahmaputra and Mekong will be halved. One billion people depend on those rivers to live. Those models don't include dams the Chinese are building.

 

If you find a stopper for those two laws, let me know. I'll be the first to nominate you for a Nobel Prize.

 

The attached is not a model. It's a fact.

Facts, facts, facts... I think we have to realise that facts, proven facts, are just not evidence enough to someone has seen things " with their own eyes man"