Thailand's Tourism Surge Threatened by Zero-Dollar Chinese Tours

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, mfd101 said:

So the hotels, restaurants & shops which the Chinese 'tourists' are funneled thru are staffed by Chinese from China? and the food the tourists eat is imported specially from China? and served only by Chinese from China? and not a single Thai person benefits from the whole deal?

I didn't say that. I guess reading comprehension needs a tune up. The profits from all these business which is the bulk of the money goes out of the country. Most of the sales for stocking inventory, supplies etc.  comes from other Chinese owned business that buy and sell to each other. Is there some money going to Thailand, yeah but its minimal or it wouldnt be an issue. 

[biggles45]

The TAT tourist spending figures seem 'flexible' to me. Visited 4 times a year for ten years, NEVER asked for or provided data to a survey. I think they just pluck a figure from the air and It gets 'massaged' as it goes thru the bureaucratic layers. 

[mfd101]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

I didn't say that. I guess reading comprehension needs a tune up. The profits from all these business which is the bulk of the money goes out of the country. Most of the sales for stocking inventory, supplies etc.  comes from other Chinese owned business that buy and sell to each other. Is there some money going to Thailand, yeah but its minimal or it wouldnt be an issue. 

OK, so all of Thailand's little oligarchs and would-be oligarchs are discovering what it is to deal with a giant oligarch.

 

If Thais were to discover the meaning of concepts like 'productivity' and 'efficiency' and 'quality', they might find themselves easily able to compete with the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

[stupidfarang]

8 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

The profit goes to the growers, who set the price they sell to the Chinese. If the Thai middlemen cannot match the price the Chinese offer, this is just supply and demand economics.

The farmers do not set the price, price is subject to supply and demand. The chinese have set up many wharehouses in the south to buy durian from the farmers, they will end up cutting out the Thai buyers. This is common knowledge in Lang Suan, Sawi, Chumphon area where the main growing areas are.

[Caldera]

I'd be more worried about Indian quality tourists overstaying and working illegally. The cleanliness of Thailand must be a real eye opener to any Indian traveling abroad for the first time. 

[NoDisplayName]

1 minute ago, stupidfarang said:

The farmers do not set the price, price is subject to supply and demand. The chinese have set up many wharehouses in the south to buy durian from the farmers, they will end up cutting out the Thai buyers. This is common knowledge in Lang Suan, Sawi, Chumphon area where the main growing areas are.

 

Oh, damn those Chinese exporters for paying more directly to Thai farmers than those big, evil, greedy, corrupt oligarch-owned monopolies!

 

We can't have Thai durian farmers getting a fair price for their product!  They deserve only the pittance offered by their hiso masters.  Selling their fruit to the Chinese and earning more?  How dare they!  Where's their gratitude?

 

China bad!®

 

[newnative]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The disgraced Srettha and the authorities have done this to themselves with their very liberal visa policies. In an absolutely desperation bid to attract tourists they've lowered the standard to the point where this is what they're getting. In addition to the Chinese Triads and the Russian Bratva. Congratulations on lowering the quality of life for everybody. Thailand is likely attracting more than 90% low budget tourists now. 

      Not only is Thailand not 'attracting more than 90% low budget tourists now', it is not even attracting 'more than 90%' of Chinese low budget tourists.   At least 60% of Chinese travelers to Thailand are independent travelers, not with tour groups, be they budget tours or any other kind.  This was true pre-covid and the 60% figure is being maintained in the recovery period.

    Classified as F.I.T, Free Independent Travelers, these tourists go where they want in Thailand, buy what they want, visit attractions they want to see, and eat and sleep in establishments that they choose, not a tour agency. 

   There are always going to be tourists of all budgets visiting Thailand.   But, that's a good thing.  Thailand is not Monaco.  Thailand is a large country with a massive tourist industry.   This industry has a huge number of rooms that need to be filled with tourists every day--from budget hostels to Mom and Pop guesthouses to large 5-star resorts.  One size does not fit all.   It's all fine and dandy to say Thailand should only be trying to attract 5-star tourists--but that ignores all the tourist establishments that aren't 5-star.  They all contribute, including the budget tours.

[Dan O]

2 hours ago, mfd101 said:

OK, so all of Thailand's little oligarchs and would-be oligarchs are discovering what it is to deal with a giant oligarch.

 

If Thais were to discover the meaning of concepts like 'productivity' and 'efficiency' and 'quality', they might find themselves easily able to compete with the Chinese.

 

 

 

 

That has nothing to do with zero dollar tourism 

[Bernietravelling]

Interestingly, he is only mentioning the Chinese …

 

Quite a number of the Indians carted around with huge busses in Pattaya seem to fit in the zero-baht-category as well !
 

And did anyone mention the endless numbers of Indian restaurants popping up everywhere, where you never see any Thai among the staff?

[Patong2021]

Seems to me we were being warned of such things pre-Covid when the emphasis was on attracting Chinese tourists.

There must be multiple threads in AN on the topic.

 

16 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

With respects , I am pretty sure my fellow UK compatriots fly to Benidorm on UK planes, stay in UK owned hotels, eat all day at UK restaurants and drink in UK owned bars. I doubt many UK benidorm travellers give a hoot about local Spanish owned establishments 

 

In fairness to the Thais, they are not going around harassing  and threatening  tourists as is now the case in Spain. The Thais are still saying please come, while Spanish locals are protesting en masse and being rather nasty to tourists.

[DonniePeverley]

Revenue from tourism is down.

 

It's been an absolute disgrace to relax all visa rules for Indian tourists and Chinese tourists.  

 

 

 

I know many quality high spending tourists who are seeking other destinations as Thailand is only looking at cheap mass tourism. 

Edited August 23 by DonniePeverley

[JoeyMac]

Same every year. 

 

Promise to seek quality tourism over volume of numbers. 

 

Do nothing. 

 

Repeat 

 

Revenue from tourism down (from peak) due to attracting low spending tourists, despite high visitor numbers. The solution appears to be allow even more low spending tourists to make up for the loss - Thai logic. 

 

Meanwhile the visitor experience for any sort of quality paying tourist will be awful. 

 

 

[JoeyMac]

10 hours ago, newnative said:

      Not only is Thailand not 'attracting more than 90% low budget tourists now', it is not even attracting 'more than 90%' of Chinese low budget tourists.   At least 60% of Chinese travelers to Thailand are independent travelers, not with tour groups, be they budget tours or any other kind.  This was true pre-covid and the 60% figure is being maintained in the recovery period.

    Classified as F.I.T, Free Independent Travelers, these tourists go where they want in Thailand, buy what they want, visit attractions they want to see, and eat and sleep in establishments that they choose, not a tour agency. 

   There are always going to be tourists of all budgets visiting Thailand.   But, that's a good thing.  Thailand is not Monaco.  Thailand is a large country with a massive tourist industry.   This industry has a huge number of rooms that need to be filled with tourists every day--from budget hostels to Mom and Pop guesthouses to large 5-star resorts.  One size does not fit all.   It's all fine and dandy to say Thailand should only be trying to attract 5-star tourists--but that ignores all the tourist establishments that aren't 5-star.  They all contribute, including the budget tours.

 

 

But at what cost to local infrustructure? Policing, roads, etc . Zero dollar tourists, or low spending Indian tourists are more likely to cost the state money than bring in any money. 

 

Remember then by being labelled as 'mass cheap tourist destination' you then turn away tourists. 

[stupidfarang]

14 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Oh, damn those Chinese exporters for paying more directly to Thai farmers than those big, evil, greedy, corrupt oligarch-owned monopolies!

 

We can't have Thai durian farmers getting a fair price for their product!  They deserve only the pittance offered by their hiso masters.  Selling their fruit to the Chinese and earning more?  How dare they!  Where's their gratitude?

 

China bad!®

 

I know it is scarcasim, traditionally it is local companies who been the buyers of durian from the farmers not "corrupt oligarch-owned monopolies". As said before, with the chinese setting up wharehouses and buying, like zero dollar tours the money made is not kept in Thailand or the local communitys, just like what is happening in the frieght, trucking and courier industry in Thailand now.

 

Farmers get a fair price as per what the market dictates, Thailand is the largest exporter to China with Vietnam coming in second. Thailand’s durian has a very good reputation for quality yet Malaysian durians get a better price due to a wider variety of flavors but cannot match the  volume. Thailand will be the major supplier for now, yet they have Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia and China's own developing durian farms being developed.

 

If you think they earn more, then you do not understand the industry. I do agree about the monopolies in general, hence why we buy at our local farmers market so the money benfits the growers and is kept local instead of the profits being sent back to monopolies.

[Caldera]

4 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Revenue from tourism is down.

 

It's been an absolute disgrace to relax all visa rules for Indian tourists and Chinese tourists.  

 

 

 

I know many quality high spending tourists who are seeking other destinations as Thailand is only looking at cheap mass tourism. 

 

That's a good point. By inviting those nationalities in large numbers, they definitely make holidaying in Thailand a less enjoyable experience for others.

[watchcat]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:51 AM, thesetat2013 said:

They eat.. at specific places only with reduced pricing. They stay at hotels that gives free buffet to them for breakfast so they do not need to spend money on local shops. They take them to specific shops when going anywhere so local shops suffer this also. They walk around in groups that never allow time to go venture off and spend money on local shops as well. just take picture and keep walking. The tour groups get extra money to bring them to each place. Basically, you do exactly what your tour guide tells you. You do not walk around shopping or trying the local cuisine nor do you visit small shops run locally. I have met and talked to a few of these chinese before using tour groups. They say the y spend more time in duty-free shops and suit shops and gold shops than having fun. They are harassed while inside those shops to make a purchase by both the establishment and the tour guide. I was able to chat with them because they snuck out to go to a club late at night. They are controlled so much that they had to sneak out of their hotel. 

 

So what's in it for Thailand?

[watchcat]

22 hours ago, sambum said:

Well, whaddaya know? There's a surprise!

 

For TAT?

[Chris Daley]

The smell of urine, dirty tables and no English is a threat to tourism as well.

[morrobay]

13 minutes ago, Chris Daley said:

The smell of urine, dirty tables and no English is a threat to tourism as well.

And the cigarette smoking/spitting by "these chinese males" everywhere in any tourist category is disgusting. 

[watchcat]

19 hours ago, Irish star said:

Indian gangs , Arab gangs oh it’s just Lovely Now 

 

Don't forget the Kuwait scooter gangs.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, JoeyMac said:

 

 

But at what cost to local infrustructure? Policing, roads, etc . Zero dollar tourists, or low spending Indian tourists are more likely to cost the state money than bring in any money. 

 

Remember then by being labelled as 'mass cheap tourist destination' you then turn away tourists. 

       As I said in my post, Thailand has a huge tourist industry which is not made up solely of 5-star resorts.  It needs tourists of all economic strata to fill it's widely diverse tourist accommodations.  Thailand, and all those owners of hotel rooms, needs a steady influx of large numbers of tourists to fill all those rooms every day.

     If budget tourists were costing the state money, Thailand would not be trying to lure more tourists to visit.  Instead, they would put a very high fee on obtaining a tourist visa to keep out budget tourists.  But, they would soon be hearing from all the owners of hostels, guesthouses, and no or low-star hotels who would soon be suffering from a lack of visitors to the price range they cater to.  Not to mention all the lower-end restaurants, food courts, shops, attractions, etc.  

     France, around the same size as Thailand, had over 90 million visitors in 2019.  Thailand had around 40 million that year.  So, France had to handle over double the number of visitors as Thailand did.  Were all 90 million visitors 5-star tourists?  Of course not.  They were from all economic strata, including budget tourists, the same as Thailand--but 50 million more.  Like Thailand, France does not have all 5-star hotels, either.  Like Thailand, France needs large numbers of diverse budget visitors to fill large numbers of diverse budget hotel rooms.

     The idea that if a country attracts low-budget tourists then higher budget tourists will stay away is ludicrous.  (Ring, ring.  "Hello, France.  Just calling to ask if any of your 90 million visitors are low-budget.  Oh, sorry, can't visit if that is the case.")  Once again, France, 90 million visitors, many low-budget. 

     All those low-budget tourists are certainly not keeping all the others from coming to France--including my spouse and me the year we visited.  Never entered our minds.  We wanted to see France, and we did.  Same-same with Thailand and its visitors.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, watchcat said:

 

So what's in it for Thailand?

     Jobs for all the local Thais servicing all of those tourists.   From bus drivers to hotel room cleaners to laundry workers to hotel gardeners to hotel pool cleaners to airport workers to maintenance workers to shop owners and sales staff to hotel guest staff to amusement and tour site staff to restaurant cooks and servers to taxi drivers to food and hotel suppliers to--the list goes on and on.

    It's pumping money from abroad into the local Thai economy, to the benefit of many local Thai workers, and not all of them directly in the tourist industry.  The Thai tour bus driver earns a salary for driving around bus loads of tourists.  He has money in his pocket and gets a haircut from a Thai barber, buys a motorcycle and gets it serviced from a Thai motorcycle shop, rents a  room from a Thai landlord, shops for food at a local Thai market with local Thais selling their merchandise, washes his clothes at a local Thai-owned laundrymat.   Etc., etc. 

     Multiply the Thai bus driver by thousands of Thai tourist industry workers, and, in turn, all those Thais I mentioned above, and many more, now also have money in their pockets and they, too, can go out and purchase the same sort of local goods and services as the Thai bus driver.   We saw with covid what happened when that tourist money flow from abroad got turned off.  Not pretty.

     It matters not a bit if the bus company or the hotel or the restaurant is Chinese-owned or Martian-owned.  If local workers are being employed, the local economy will benefit and, in turn, the nation will benefit. 

[kimothai]

Just more Bla, Bla, Bla. Sounds more like the Thai's are just getting their excuses in order when their inflated numbers don't come true. It's all about saving face. 

[thesetat2013]

5 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

So what's in it for Thailand?

Numbers they can throw at the public to make it seem like tourism dollars are coming in by the planeload. 

[sambum]

7 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

For TAT?

 

Maybe for the  new Government who listened to their own Tourist Authority (TAT), who will no doubt have said "We need numbers above all else to make us look good"

[Irish star]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

     Jobs for all the local Thais servicing all of those tourists.   From bus drivers to hotel room cleaners to laundry workers to hotel gardeners to hotel pool cleaners to airport workers to maintenance workers to shop owners and sales staff to hotel guest staff to amusement and tour site staff to restaurant cooks and servers to taxi drivers to food and hotel suppliers to--the list goes on and on.

    It's pumping money from abroad into the local Thai economy, to the benefit of many local Thai workers, and not all of them directly in the tourist industry.  The Thai tour bus driver earns a salary for driving around bus loads of tourists.  He has money in his pocket and gets a haircut from a Thai barber, buys a motorcycle and gets it serviced from a Thai motorcycle shop, rents a  room from a Thai landlord, shops for food at a local Thai market with local Thais selling their merchandise, washes his clothes at a local Thai-owned laundrymat.   Etc., etc. 

     Multiply the Thai bus driver by thousands of Thai tourist industry workers, and, in turn, all those Thais I mentioned above, and many more, now also have money in their pockets and they, too, can go out and purchase the same sort of local goods and services as the Thai bus driver.   We saw with covid what happened when that tourist money flow from abroad got turned off.  Not pretty.

     It matters not a bit if the bus company or the hotel or the restaurant is Chinese-owned or Martian-owned.  If local workers are being employed, the local economy will benefit and, in turn, the nation will benefit. 

Tell me me your Chinese without telling me your a Chinese fan boy 

[Irish star]

8 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

Don't forget the Kuwait scooter gangs.

Arab covers Kuwait and USE another obnoxious crowd   , they come here in school cycles “ holidays “

[Irish star]

8 hours ago, watchcat said:

 

So what's in it for Thailand?

Numbers racket   When casinos come we shall see the hordes 

[newnative]

2 hours ago, Irish star said:

Tell me me your Chinese without telling me your a Chinese fan boy 

     Maybe re-read my posts.  What I said applies to tourists from any country.  Chinese tourists and businesses were just used as an example, since China is currently the largest group and the subject of the thread.   

[DonniePeverley]

On 8/24/2024 at 3:58 AM, newnative said:

       As I said in my post, Thailand has a huge tourist industry which is not made up solely of 5-star resorts.  It needs tourists of all economic strata to fill it's widely diverse tourist accommodations.  Thailand, and all those owners of hotel rooms, needs a steady influx of large numbers of tourists to fill all those rooms every day.

     If budget tourists were costing the state money, Thailand would not be trying to lure more tourists to visit.  Instead, they would put a very high fee on obtaining a tourist visa to keep out budget tourists.  But, they would soon be hearing from all the owners of hostels, guesthouses, and no or low-star hotels who would soon be suffering from a lack of visitors to the price range they cater to.  Not to mention all the lower-end restaurants, food courts, shops, attractions, etc.  

     France, around the same size as Thailand, had over 90 million visitors in 2019.  Thailand had around 40 million that year.  So, France had to handle over double the number of visitors as Thailand did.  Were all 90 million visitors 5-star tourists?  Of course not.  They were from all economic strata, including budget tourists, the same as Thailand--but 50 million more.  Like Thailand, France does not have all 5-star hotels, either.  Like Thailand, France needs large numbers of diverse budget visitors to fill large numbers of diverse budget hotel rooms.

     The idea that if a country attracts low-budget tourists then higher budget tourists will stay away is ludicrous.  (Ring, ring.  "Hello, France.  Just calling to ask if any of your 90 million visitors are low-budget.  Oh, sorry, can't visit if that is the case.")  Once again, France, 90 million visitors, many low-budget. 

     All those low-budget tourists are certainly not keeping all the others from coming to France--including my spouse and me the year we visited.  Never entered our minds.  We wanted to see France, and we did.  Same-same with Thailand and its visitors.

 

 

France is a major world economy, not a developing country. It attracts high quality spending tourists with it's control on visa restrictions. You won't see zero dollar tours in Paris. 

 

Secondly, a large majority of french visitors are spread out over many regions, eg Paris, the South of France, the Alps etc and spead over summer and winter months. 

 

Edited August 25 by DonniePeverley