Trump's Political Strategy: Shifting Blame for Afghanistan to Harris

[simple1]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

What a lot of Trump supporters don't seem to understand is that he had an opportunity to negotiate directly with the Afghan government, and instead he sidetracked them and decided to negotiate directly with the Taliban. That was treasonous. 

 

And that was a very poor decision, which flew in the face of his pretending to have respect for the Armed Forces. His disparaging of John McCain is one of many examples. There is a reason why so many in the armed forces, along with their leadership, dislike and mistrust him. He is a coward and a pretender. Arlington is just another blatant example of his extreme lack of sincerity. It was a photo op, that failed miserably. 

 

Trump negotiated the withdrawal. Biden should have postponed it long enough to get out all the translators we promised loyalty to, in addition to most of the billions in equipment and supplies. They both failed, on that count. 

 

Plus trump agreed to have 5,000 Taliban prisoners released without any negotiation with the then Afghan government. IMO it is ridiculous to blame Biden / Harris for the 13 US military killed by a suicide bomber, could have happened no matter who was in power - just political partisan posturing.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, watthong said:

 

And even that, like everything else from now till November, is overshadowed by Trump melt-down over watching his campaign going down in flames. while Harris/Walz rising. Goal by Biden.

 

(While Shady Vance is still honing his un-diplomatic skills in a donut shop somewhere...

Vance, all smiling: "Hi, I'm JD Vance running for VP, nice to see ya!"

Employee, all not-smiling: "Ok." (muttering under her breath: Now get that damn camera out of my fvcking face!)

 

and Trump is overdosing on hi blood pressure pills, slowly but surely slipping into irrelevance)  MAGA fans are simply raking over the ashes. Back and forth, back and forth. The networkl should rename the Oct Debate the Oct "Coup de Grace."

 

Not much point in editing that carp.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, mdr224 said:

Well regardless youre not american so your opinion matters not

If my opinion doesn't matter, why does it seem to have struck a nerve with you?

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Not much point in editing that carp.

Then I won't bother editing the last word in your post either.

 

Please tell me, how did releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners help either the Afghan government or the US in withdrawing in good order? Like trying to put a fire out with gasoline.

[Yellowtail]

24 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Then I won't bother editing the last word in your post either.

 

Please tell me, how did releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners help either the Afghan government or the US in withdrawing in good order? Like trying to put a fire out with gasoline.

Yet there was no "fire" for over a year after the Trump-Taliban Agreement was implemented.

 

And no American servicemen were killed in action in Afghanistan in the year between the implementation of the agreement, and the withdrawal. 

 

I think a strong argument can be made that had we maintained the base and the embassy as Trump intended, thing would have been much different. 

 

 

 

 

[Will B Good]

 

 

This really is desperate stuff.....if this is all Steve Cheung's doing he needs to go.......but I guess it's too late now.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Then I won't bother editing the last word in your post either.

 

Please tell me, how did release 5000 Taliban prisoners help either the Afghan government or the US in withdrawing in good order? Like trying to put a fire out with gasoline.

 

The prisoner release was required by the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" as part of a deal, which was intended to bring peace to Afghanistan, commonly referred to as The Doha Preace Agreement. But this agreement was broken in several ways at several stages, with increasing significance, post signing, by the Taliban.

 

The withdrawal sequencing could have been fairly adjusted as the agreement was broken by the other side first. 

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

The prisoner release was required by the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" as part of a deal, which was intended to bring peace to Afghanistan, commonly referred to as The Doha Preace Agreement. But this agreement was broken in several ways at several stages, with increasing significance, post signing, by the Taliban.

 

The withdrawal sequencing could have been fairly adjusted as the agreement was broken by the other side first. 

 

 

The then Afghan government was excluded from any 'peace agreement' with the Taliban, basically a betrayal by the trump administration. The Taliban agreed to cease attacks against coalition forces, but not the then Afghan government forces. To expect the Taliban to enter peace negotiations with the Afghan government was farcical.

 

US-Taliban agreement

The Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban and the United States of America (US-Taliban Agreement) was made on 29 February 2020. The US-Taliban Agreement was the impetus for the withdrawal of US and allied forces from Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (the Afghan Government) did not participate in these talks.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2122/Quick_Guides/BackgroundToAfghanistanWithdrawal#:~:text=With the US-Taliban Agreement,its strategy to retake Afghanistan.

[BKKKevin]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Right. The left is all bent out of shape about Trump attending the wreath-laying ceremony that honored service members killed in the Afghanistan withdrawal at Arlington. 

 

But they don't seem to give a whit about the thirteen servicemen that were killed as a result Biden-Harris incompetence in regard to the withdrawal.

Fact…

During Trump’s presidency, which ran from January 20, 2017, to January 20, 2021, there were 45 combat deaths among U.S. service members reported in Afghanistan…

 

Those should have been the graves he should have visited… 

[Dan O]

13 hours ago, thaipo7 said:

You are so sure in your opinions.  You may be in for a great surprise.  Trump did not pull out of Bagram AB BEFORE removing equipment and US Citizens.  It was the orders of the two biggest losers ever as far as foreign affairs go.  Biden and Blinken.  Then add in Sullivan.  General Miley and Austin should have been fired but no one get fired in the Administration.  We lost our eyes and ears on keeping an eye on Afghanistan, China, and Russia.  How many US citizens have been killed since the Insurrection.  Yes, this was a real Insurrection.  Not J6.  

Ror a little clarity for you here's the timeline of when the withdrawal was scheduled and trump scheduled and executed the bulk of the troops leaving, some 13 to 16K leaving only 2500 in country

 

Timeline of U.S. Withdrawal from Afghanistan - FactCheck.org

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

The then Afghan government was excluded from any 'peace agreement' with the Taliban, basically a betrayal by the trump administration. The Taliban agreed to cease attacks against coalition forces, but not the then Afghan government forces. To expect the Taliban to enter peace negotiations with the Afghan government was farcical.

 

US-Taliban agreement

The Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban and the United States of America (US-Taliban Agreement) was made on 29 February 2020. The US-Taliban Agreement was the impetus for the withdrawal of US and allied forces from Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (the Afghan Government) did not participate in these talks.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2122/Quick_Guides/BackgroundToAfghanistanWithdrawal#:~:text=With the US-Taliban Agreement,its strategy to retake Afghanistan.

 

 

I think you are wrong - the Afghan Gov of the day was an ally of the US and as such should not have been attacked by the Taliban according to the agreement. That was just one of the ways that the Doha Agreement was broken, as I said. The agreement included the provision for the Afghan Gov and the Taliban to negotiate between themselves after the initial agreement was signed but that never happened, due to reluctance and lack of good faith by both sides.

 

Way past the time to leave - fair warning - no betrayal - just badly managed at the end.

 

 

[watthong]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Did you see the video of that donut shop visit? I assume that was intended to generate positive PR. It ended up being one of the most awkward and uncomfortable two minute videos I've ever seen. Vance literally does not know how to behave like a normal human being, he is that scripted, he is that manufactured, he is that fake and phony. 

 

He is easily the worst VP pick since Dan Quayle. 

 

Got to see the clip to really appreciate the Emmy-worthy response of the donut shopkeeper. Her "Ok" after JD went through the self-intro spiel, "I'm running for Vice President" is priceless! Never so much contempt and dismissal is packed into 2 syllables, and not one sec did she lose her cool....

 

 

Edited August 30 by watthong

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, BKKKevin said:

Fact…

During Trump’s presidency, which ran from January 20, 2017, to January 20, 2021, there were 45 combat deaths among U.S. service members reported in Afghanistan…

 

Those should have been the graves he should have visited… 

Fact...

You and the left is all bent out of shape about Trump attending the wreath-laying ceremony that honored service members killed in the Afghanistan withdrawal at Arlington. 

 

But you don't seem to give a whit about the thirteen servicemen that were killed as a result Biden-Harris incompetence in regard to the withdrawal.

[novacova]

19 hours ago, Social Media said:

Former President Donald Trump has adopted a new campaign strategy, aiming to shift the blame for the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan onto Vice President Kamala Harris.

The conflation of the above statement is a lie. No blame to “shift” Harris is the blame, 100% culpable, she owns the mess of a debacle among many others.

[Dcheech]

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

But you don't seem to give a whit about the thirteen servicemen that were killed as a result Biden-Harris incompetence in regard to the withdrawal

 

And you do? We were in Afghanistan & Iraq because of the Bushmaster. So it is not like Repubs really care about it in the first place. The only reason it comes up now, Trump needs to try & smear someone or something. It is the only way he knows how to campaign. That is why he was out doing PR photos, in a cemetery among people he has said are suckers and losers. Against rules but hey, The Donald doesn't care.

[Patong2021]

Yes Trump  made serious errors in Afghanistan and yes, Biden in his haste to  extricate from an expanding quagmire of death and destruction added to Trump's errors, but the reality is that it just doesn't matter anymore. Afghanistan has reverted to the stone age mentality of the Taliban. It was inevitable and obvious years ago.

 

Lost in the western biased analysis is that much of the disarray in Afghanistan was caused by the competition of Iran, India and Pakistan and the  refusal of westerners to understand that as long as the 3 neighbors were involved, Afghanis could not be "modernized".  All 3 had been surreptitiously meddling and undermining the efforts of the western coalition. Their goal was to  install a regime favourable to their respective interests, focused on Afghanistan's mineral wealth and potential to align with perceived hostile forces.   This week Pakistan  experienced another catastrophic incident with 100's killed and injured in its Baluchistan region. The responsible parties can be tied back to the   3 neighbors jostling in Afghanistan. Neither of the 3 can be trusted and will eventually be at war. 

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a clusterf**K and a mess, but it was inevitable and could never have been net and clean. What it did achieve is to  distance the west from a the likely conflict that will occur in that region.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Patong2021 said:

Yes Trump  made serious errors in Afghanistan and yes, Biden in his haste to  extricate from an expanding quagmire of death and destruction added to Trump's errors, but the reality is that it just doesn't matter anymore. Afghanistan has reverted to the stone age mentality of the Taliban. It was inevitable and obvious years ago.

 

Lost in the western biased analysis is that much of the disarray in Afghanistan was caused by the competition of Iran, India and Pakistan and the  refusal of westerners to understand that as long as the 3 neighbors were involved, Afghanis could not be "modernized".  All 3 had been surreptitiously meddling and undermining the efforts of the western coalition. Their goal was to  install a regime favourable to their respective interests, focused on Afghanistan's mineral wealth and potential to align with perceived hostile forces.   This week Pakistan  experienced another catastrophic incident with 100's killed and injured in its Baluchistan region. The responsible parties can be tied back to the   3 neighbors jostling in Afghanistan. Neither of the 3 can be trusted and will eventually be at war. 

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was a clusterf**K and a mess, but it was inevitable and could never have been net and clean. What it did achieve is to  distance the west from a the likely conflict that will occur in that region.

 

It matters as far as this topic goes.

[Hanaguma]

4 hours ago, novacova said:

The conflation of the above statement is a lie. No blame to “shift” Harris is the blame, 100% culpable, she owns the mess of a debacle among many others.

The VP was very proud to say that she was the last person that the doddering Joe Biden spoke to before many, if not most of his decisions. Including this one.  Hard to blame a man who was not in power at the time.  The Biden-Harris administration had no trouble reversing any of Trump's policies when it suited them.  

 

Nah, this is on Joe and Kamala. They screwed up the timing and the execution. 

[Yagoda]

Good strategy, after all, she was the last one in the room.

[BKKKevin]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Fact...

You and the left is all bent out of shape about Trump attending the wreath-laying ceremony that honored service members killed in the Afghanistan withdrawal at Arlington. 

 

But you don't seem to give a whit about the thirteen servicemen that were killed as a result Biden-Harris incompetence in regard to the withdrawal.

Please as the armchair internet expert you seem to be... Tell us of the 400,000 dead solgers in Arlington who are the competently killed and who are the incompetently killed ones?...

 

They all served their county and deserve to be honored and not be made a backdrop for a sleazy political ad... 

[simple1]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

 

I think you are wrong - the Afghan Gov of the day was an ally of the US and as such should not have been attacked by the Taliban according to the agreement. That was just one of the ways that the Doha Agreement was broken, as I said. The agreement included the provision for the Afghan Gov and the Taliban to negotiate between themselves after the initial agreement was signed but that never happened, due to reluctance and lack of good faith by both sides.

 

Way past the time to leave - fair warning - no betrayal - just badly managed at the end.

 

 

 

Incorrect. The Afghan government was not a signatory to the US Taliban Agreement. I've already posted a credible link, but just for you...

 

 The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (the Afghan Government) did not participate in these talks.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2122/Quick_Guides/BackgroundToAfghanistanWithdrawal#:~:text=The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan,135 days of the agreement.

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, novacova said:

The conflation of the above statement is a lie. No blame to “shift” Harris is the blame, 100% culpable, she owns the mess of a debacle among many others.

H R McMaster begs to differ. Trump created the mess, quite clear from McMaster's book " At War with Ourselves".

 

Is this where you post your own credentials as a military commander, working in the White House?

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

The VP was very proud to say that she was the last person that the doddering Joe Biden spoke to before many, if not most of his decisions. Including this one.  Hard to blame a man who was not in power at the time.  The Biden-Harris administration had no trouble reversing any of Trump's policies when it suited them.  

 

Nah, this is on Joe and Kamala. They screwed up the timing and the execution. 

Yeah, the first week they:

Suspended remain in Mexico 
Stopped construction of the border wall, sold the materials for scrap
Lifted the title 2 restrictions that turned back unaccompanied minors 
Canceled expedited removal 
Reversed refugee bans from key regions and enabled flights from those regions to begin
Raised the 15K refugee limit to 125K

 

But like Obama with Iraq, Biden's hands were tied...
 

[Yellowtail]

4 hours ago, BKKKevin said:

Please as the armchair internet expert you seem to be... Tell us of the 400,000 dead solgers in Arlington who are the competently killed and who are the incompetently killed ones?...

 

They all served their county and deserve to be honored and not be made a backdrop for a sleazy political ad... 

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

H R McMaster begs to differ. Trump created the mess, quite clear from McMaster's book " At War with Ourselves".

 

Is this where you post your own credentials as a military commander, working in the White House?

Like you read HR's book that just came out four days ago. You are just regurgitating another leftist talking point.

 

I am pretty familiar with HR's opinion on Trump having listened to him on the "GoodFellows" podcast for a couple years. 

[frank83628]

22 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Plus trump agreed to have 5,000 Taliban prisoners released without any negotiation with the then Afghan government. IMO it is ridiculous to blame Biden / Harris for the 13 US military killed by a suicide bomber, could have happened no matter who was in power - just political partisan posturing.

but i'm sure you would have blamed Trump had it been under his watch! 

[simple1]

13 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

but i'm sure you would have blamed Trump had it been under his watch! 

 

No. Cannot lay blame for a specific incident of a suicide bomber attack. So far as I know don't believe any President has been blamed for a specific suicide attack, except by trump against Biden

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Incorrect. The Afghan government was not a signatory to the US Taliban Agreement. I've already posted a credible link, but just for you...

 

 The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (the Afghan Government) did not participate in these talks.

 

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/rp2122/Quick_Guides/BackgroundToAfghanistanWithdrawal#:~:text=The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan,135 days of the agreement.

 

Just for you...I know that.

 

You never read what I say so you just carry on.

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, watthong said:

 

Got to see the clip to really appreciate the Emmy-worthy response of the donut shopkeeper. Her "Ok" after JD went through the self-intro spiel, "I'm running for Vice President" is priceless! Never so much contempt and dismissal is packed into 2 syllables, and not one sec did she lose her cool....

 

 

 

Er..donuts are in the bakery section.

[Dan O]

13 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Fact...

You and the left is all bent out of shape about Trump attending the wreath-laying ceremony that honored service members killed in the Afghanistan withdrawal at Arlington. 

 

But you don't seem to give a whit about the thirteen servicemen that were killed as a result Biden-Harris incompetence in regard to the withdrawal.

More nonsensical bs from you