Latest carmaker to scale back its EV ambitions amid slowing sales

[atpeace]

Toyota makes an EV?  That is news to me and amazing that sales are dropping when they had almost no sells to begin with.  Maybe I'm wrong but I can't remember seeing one Toyota EV.  

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Toyota makes an EV?  That is news to me and amazing that sales are dropping when they had almost no sells to begin with.  Maybe I'm wrong but I can't remember seeing one Toyota EV.  

Toyota have been selling EV's from 1997

In 2023, Toyota Motor Corporation sold approximately 3.68 million electrified vehicles (EVs) worldwide, increasing by 35 percent from around 2.73 million units in the previous year. Asia, including China but excluding Japan, was the region with the most unit sales, accumulating around 923 thousand electrified Toyotas sold.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1155847/toyota-electrified-vehicle-global-unit-sales/#:~:text=Globa

[JBChiangRai]

42 minutes ago, retarius said:

Usual nonsense. Get an education and learn to read.

 

Another well thought out, eloquent post backed by oodles of data eh Retardius?

[atpeace]

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Toyota have been selling EV's from 1997

In 2023, Toyota Motor Corporation sold approximately 3.68 million electrified vehicles (EVs) worldwide, increasing by 35 percent from around 2.73 million units in the previous year. Asia, including China but excluding Japan, was the region with the most unit sales, accumulating around 923 thousand electrified Toyotas sold.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1155847/toyota-electrified-vehicle-global-unit-sales/#:~:text=Globa

Think you are referring to hybrids not EVs?  Am I wrong?  The articles in the OP was in regards to EVs.

Edited September 11 by atpeace

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

I don't have to buy stuff and then regret it to know that it's not worth my money. If you are different then you're a lucky guy indeed despite following very unwise purchasing practice.

 

If I wanted advice about iPhones I would ask someone who only used Android, that is obvious.

 

You claim that an EV is an "unwise purchasing practice" yet you have no have direct experience to support your premise. I have refuted your arguments against owning an EV in Thailand were this forum is based.

 

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

The Hub of EV Charging for the world?

 

EV chargers here in Thailand have been installed recently so they tend to be modern 150kW types which may not be the case in other countries.

 

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

Here's a fact though. Many large car makers are reverting on their large investments and marketing efforts of EV. Alternatively, even though my arguments fall flat for you apparently they don't for car buyers now.

 

Why do you suppose they are doing so? What do you know that they and I don't know?

 

Legacy auto manufactures are late to the party and their products can't compete. Case in point Toyota, who has sold only 66 EVs in Thailand this year, all in January and none since. BYD has sold 17,396.   

 

Total vehicle sales  (ICE + EVs) in Thailand in July was down 20.6% YOY

 

https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-thailand-by-month
 

EV sales on the other hand were up over 13% YOY

 

 

 

 

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, atpeace said:

Think you are referring to hybrids not EVs?  Am I wrong?  The articles in the OP was in regards to EVs.

if you read the link provided it scopes the type of vehicles as

sales include HEV, PHEV, FCEV, and BEV

[vinny41]

18 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

If I wanted advice about iPhones I would ask someone who only used Android, that is obvious.

 

You claim that an EV is an "unwise purchasing practice" yet you have no have direct experience to support your premise. I have refuted your arguments against owning an EV in Thailand were this forum is based.

 

 

EV chargers here in Thailand have been installed recently so they tend to be modern 150kW types which may not be the case in other countries.

 

 

Legacy auto manufactures are late to the party and their products can't compete. Case in point Toyota, who has sold only 66 EVs in Thailand this year, all in January and none since. BYD has sold 17,396.   

 

Total vehicle sales  (ICE + EVs) in Thailand in July was down 20.6% YOY

 

https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-thailand-by-month
 

EV sales on the other hand were up over 13% YOY

 

 

 

 

Byd have already included the January 2024 registrations numbers in their total number of sales for 2023

Sales numbers for Byd From Feb 1st to 31st July  for this year are 9,581

If you compare Feb 1st 2023 to July 31st 2023 and February 1st 2024 to July 31st 2024

EV sales numbers are down YOY

Here are 2023 EV registrations figures from Autolife

From February 1st 2023 to 31st July 2023 33.844 EV's were registered 

From February 1st 2024 to 31st July 2024  29,758 EV's were registered

Overall EV's registrations for the period 2024 are down 4,086 compared to the same time period for 2023

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

https://autolifethailand.tv/ev-register-july-2024-thailand/

Data from the Department of Land Transport indicate that the EV market has not been particularly strong since the beginning of the year. January recorded the highest number of registrations for the year at 13,321 units, driven partly by a rush to register before the January 31 deadline to qualify for benefits under the EV promotion plan, EV 3.0, which offers a 2% excise tax and a subsidy of up to 150,000 baht.

https://www.nationthailand.com/blogs/business/automobile/40039276

 

totall number of ev sales for 2023 is in the region of 89,000

Edited September 11 by vinny41
add

[ExpatOilWorker]

40 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

If I wanted advice about iPhones I would ask someone who only used Android, that is obvious.

 

You claim that an EV is an "unwise purchasing practice" yet you have no have direct experience to support your premise. I have refuted your arguments against owning an EV in Thailand were this forum is based.

 

 

EV chargers here in Thailand have been installed recently so they tend to be modern 150kW types which may not be the case in other countries.

 

 

Legacy auto manufactures are late to the party and their products can't compete. Case in point Toyota, who has sold only 66 EVs in Thailand this year, all in January and none since. BYD has sold 17,396.   

 

Total vehicle sales  (ICE + EVs) in Thailand in July was down 20.6% YOY

 

https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-thailand-by-month
 

EV sales on the other hand were up over 13% YOY

 

 

 

 

Did the harvest fail on the cherry 🍒 farm?

From the above autolife lists, 36,861 EVs were registered January to July 2023 and 43,411 during the same period in 2024.

That is a 17.8% increase YOY, not the measly 13% you claim!!!

Edited September 11 by ExpatOilWorker

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Did the harvest fail on the cherry 🍒 farm?

From the above autolife lists, 36,861 EVs were registered January to July 2023 and 43,411 during the same period in 2024.

That is a 17.8% increase YOY, not the measly 13% you claim!!!

Don't Forget that from DLT point of view January 2024 registrations are December 2023 sales  being the closing date for EV 3.0 subsidy was 31st December 2023

From February 1st 2023 to 31st July 2023 33.844 EV's were registered 

From February 1st 2024 to 31st July 2024  29,758 EV's were registered

[vinny41]

There was a recent news item of a lady that purchased a neta V for B549,000 11 months ago

and had an accident resulting that the battery case was pierced and water entered the battery

Now when she purchased the car at B549,000 the Inurance set a capital limit of B610,000

Now sure where the B610,000 amount comes from as it doesn't represent the true cost of the vehicle as it doesn't include the EV 3.0 subsidy

To replace the battery would have cost B430,000 and the service centre couldn't guarantee that the water hadn't damaged other internal circuits / systems and there was no way of finding out until a replacement battery was installed 

The B430,000 replacement cost exceeded 70% of the insured capital so customer was advised  that insurance would refund the capital

This was 20th August this year

With all these price reductions it does appear that the cost of parts are dropping in line with price reductions of cost of vehicle

Recently there was a B140,000 price reduction on the Neta V down to B409,000 although I have seen some dealers go down to B372K

Discount 140,000 discount! Special price NETA V 100% electric car: 409,000 baht (imported CBU China) | LFP battery 40.7 kWh

https://autolifethailand.tv/special-discount-official-price-neta-v-ev-thailand-july2024/

Now if the capital on the insurance is reduced to B409K it does make these vehicles like 

disposable items as 70% of B409  would be B286K clearly a huge shortfall if battery replacement costs are B430K 

[ExpatOilWorker]

19 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Don't Forget that from DLT point of view January 2024 registrations are December 2023 sales  being the closing date for EV 3.0 subsidy was 31st December 2023

From February 1st 2023 to 31st July 2023 33.844 EV's were registered 

From February 1st 2024 to 31st July 2024  29,758 EV's were registered

Yes, I understand that. I was merely pointing out the tremendous electromagnetic damage ownership of two EVs can cause. It appears to complete wipe out the ability to do percentage calculus and repeated ownership strongly stimulate gloating, except for ants, they get friendly over time.

Bike and Fortuner ownership also have a healing and normalize effect.

[vinny41]

18 hours ago, vinny41 said:

There was a recent news item of a lady that purchased a neta V for B549,000 11 months ago

and had an accident resulting that the battery case was pierced and water entered the battery

Now when she purchased the car at B549,000 the Inurance set a capital limit of B610,000

Now sure where the B610,000 amount comes from as it doesn't represent the true cost of the vehicle as it doesn't include the EV 3.0 subsidy

To replace the battery would have cost B430,000 and the service centre couldn't guarantee that the water hadn't damaged other internal circuits / systems and there was no way of finding out until a replacement battery was installed 

The B430,000 replacement cost exceeded 70% of the insured capital so customer was advised  that insurance would refund the capital

This was 20th August this year

With all these price reductions it does appear that the cost of parts are dropping in line with price reductions of cost of vehicle

Recently there was a B140,000 price reduction on the Neta V down to B409,000 although I have seen some dealers go down to B372K

Discount 140,000 discount! Special price NETA V 100% electric car: 409,000 baht (imported CBU China) | LFP battery 40.7 kWh

https://autolifethailand.tv/special-discount-official-price-neta-v-ev-thailand-july2024/

Now if the capital on the insurance is reduced to B409K it does make these vehicles like 

disposable items as 70% of B409  would be B286K clearly a huge shortfall if battery replacement costs are B430K 

It would make more sense and reduce the number of write offs if the Capital on the insurance was split into 2 sections

Section A if you want the car repaired  the value of the car is the amount that you paid + the amount of subsidy under EV 3.0 B150,000 and under EV 3.5 B100,000

Section B if you want return of capital the value of the car is the amount that you paid excluding subsidy

In the case of the Neta V iif the capital amount for repair have been B699,000 (B549+EV 3.0 subsidy B150K the Neta V would have been repaired as the cost of the repair would be 61.5% of the capital repair value

 

 

[atpeace]

On 9/11/2024 at 8:01 PM, vinny41 said:

if you read the link provided it scopes the type of vehicles as

sales include HEV, PHEV, FCEV, and BEV

Then your post wasn't made in good faith like many of your posts. You seem to enjoy it so keep at it.  Below is Toyota's top selling EV in Thailand this year. They are kicking butt 🙂 Little different than the the claim you made.  The original post was in regards to EVs but you know that already.

 

At least the Expatoil guy has a sense humor, you are a bore.

 

 

[vinny41]

45 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Then your post wasn't made in good faith like many of your posts. You seem to enjoy it so keep at it.  Below is Toyota's top selling EV in Thailand this year. They are kicking butt 🙂 Little different than the the claim you made.  The original post was in regards to EVs but you know that already.

 

At least the Expatoil guy has a sense humor, you are a bore.

 

 

HEV are EV

I provided a link that clearly stated the type  of the vehicles that it included 

sales include HEV, PHEV, FCEV, and BEV

you failing to read the article correctly   is your own problem

This thread isn't limited to just Thailand only

In Bangkok recently there was the

 2nd International NEV Summit 2024

Here GWM Thailand show piechart of NEV market share in Thailand

HEV 51% BEV 43% PHEV 6%

 

Edited Friday at 04:22 PM by vinny41
add

[GinBoy2]

EV's are kinda OK depending on where you live.

 

Small dense countries, it kinda makes sense I guess distances are short.

 

For me driving to see our kids in Denver is 360 miles, through basically Wyoming nothingness.

 

Now I can do it on a tank of gas, and refueling takes me less than 5 minutes when I do reach civilization.

 

Now if I run out of charge in said middle of nothingness, not sure that AAA can bring me a 'tank' of electricity to get me on my way.

 

I never believed EV's are the long term future, much more inclined to believe Hydrogen fuel cells are the real green solution to climate change for transportation

 

 

[G_Money]

Bye bye EV’s.  Glad I never got to know you.

[josephbloggs]

21 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Bye bye EV’s.  Glad I never got to know you.

Another well thought out comment from a rabidly and illogically anti EV poster who knows absolutely nothing. Thanks for taking the time.

Now maybe you can go and pollute another thread with your ill informed nonsense. I believe someone called Donald Trump an idiot in one of the news threads, maybe you can hop over there to defend him. Byeeeeee.

[G_Money]

19 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

Another well thought out comment from a rabidly and illogically anti EV poster who knows absolutely nothing. Thanks for taking the time.

Now maybe you can go and pollute another thread with your ill informed nonsense. I believe someone called Donald Trump an idiot in one of the news threads, maybe you can hop over there to defend him. Byeeeeee.

You’re welcome snowflake.

 

So nice to know I’ll never run out of power in an EV  without a place to charge.  So nice to now I’ll never witness my car explode for no reason.  So nice to know I can pull my gasoline vehicle into one of many gasoline stations and get fuel anywhere, anytime.

 

Long live fossil fuels.  When Trump gets back in office it’s going to be Drill Baby Drill.  Most likely get the Keystone Pipeline back in action to full capacity too.

 

I know.  A white liberals nightmare, and I love it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

EV's are kinda OK depending on where you live.

 

Small dense countries, it kinda makes sense I guess distances are short.

 

For me driving to see our kids in Denver is 360 miles, through basically Wyoming nothingness.

 

Now I can do it on a tank of gas, and refueling takes me less than 5 minutes when I do reach civilization.

 

Now if I run out of charge in said middle of nothingness, not sure that AAA can bring me a 'tank' of electricity to get me on my way.

 

I never believed EV's are the long term future, much more inclined to believe Hydrogen fuel cells are the real green solution to climate change for transportation

 

 

May I present the solution to your Wyoming problem, the ultra long range EV. Made for guys that go the extra mile.

 

 

[G_Money]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

May I present the solution to your Wyoming problem, the ultra long range EV. Made for guys that go the extra mile.

 

 

That’s great.  I commend you!

[ignis]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

May I present the solution to your Wyoming problem, the ultra long range EV. Made for guys that go the extra mile.

 

 

might just as well get a  e-power Nissan

100% electric  charged by the petrol engine  [would look better that this]

[ExpatOilWorker]

10 minutes ago, ignis said:

might just as well get a  e-power Nissan

100% electric  charged by the petrol engine  [would look better that this]

That is old school. The future is hybrid baby.

[RocketDog]

On 9/11/2024 at 7:57 PM, Bandersnatch said:

 

If I wanted advice about iPhones I would ask someone who only used Android, that is obvious.

 

You claim that an EV is an "unwise purchasing practice" yet you have no have direct experience to support your premise. I have refuted your arguments against owning an EV in Thailand were this forum is based.

 

 

EV chargers here in Thailand have been installed recently so they tend to be modern 150kW types which may not be the case in other countries.

 

 

Legacy auto manufactures are late to the party and their products can't compete. Case in point Toyota, who has sold only 66 EVs in Thailand this year, all in January and none since. BYD has sold 17,396.   

 

Total vehicle sales  (ICE + EVs) in Thailand in July was down 20.6% YOY

 

https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-thailand-by-month
 

EV sales on the other hand were up over 13% YOY

 

 

 

 

We got off the track. By unwise consumerism I was referring to your comment that I should have no opinion on an ev since I didn't own one. I have already replied to that. My methodology is not buying things before I judge their worth to me. Therefore I must have a good opinion BEFORE I buy.

 

Second I'm not very concerned about ev sales in Thailand. It's just statistical noise compared to larger markets. Besides that it is my observation that Thai nationals are not very savvy consumers so what they choose to buy is irrelevant to me.

 

So enjoy your ev but allow me my opinion as I do yours. Me thinketh you protestith too much.

[Bandersnatch]

7 hours ago, G_Money said:

So nice to know I’ll never run out of power

 

The times they are a changing 

 

https://www.dutchnews.nl/2024/07/half-of-petrol-stations-expected-to-close-in-next-decade/

[JBChiangRai]

9 hours ago, vinny41 said:

HEV are EV

I provided a link that clearly stated the type  of the vehicles that it included 

sales include HEV, PHEV, FCEV, and BEV

you failing to read the article correctly   is your own problem

This thread isn't limited to just Thailand only

In Bangkok recently there was the

 2nd International NEV Summit 2024

Here GWM Thailand show piechart of NEV market share in Thailand

HEV 51% BEV 43% PHEV 6%

 

 

8 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

EV's are kinda OK depending on where you live.

 

Small dense countries, it kinda makes sense I guess distances are short.

 

For me driving to see our kids in Denver is 360 miles, through basically Wyoming nothingness.

 

Now I can do it on a tank of gas, and refueling takes me less than 5 minutes when I do reach civilization.

 

Now if I run out of charge in said middle of nothingness, not sure that AAA can bring me a 'tank' of electricity to get me on my way.

 

I never believed EV's are the long term future, much more inclined to believe Hydrogen fuel cells are the real green solution to climate change for transportation

 

 

 

HEV's are not EV's, they are ICE with an expensive, useless gimmick.

 

As for Hydrogen ....

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

8 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

So enjoy your ev but allow me my opinion as I do yours. Me thinketh you protestith too much.

 

You actually think?  Wonders will never cease.

[Bandersnatch]

6 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

So enjoy your ev but allow me my opinion as I do yours.

 

Can I remind you that you posted:

 

“Higher initial cost, high maintenance costs, poor battery life and expensive replacements, and limited charging locations are a reality”

 

Higher cost I have addressed already as well as “limited charging locations”

 

My MG came with 5 years of completely free servicing (parts and labour) my BYD came with 8 years.

 

My BYD has 8 years 160,000km warranty guaranteed to have at least 70% battery capacity.

 

My house is 100% off-grid (no meter) and I can power my house, 2 EVs and electric motorbike from my solar. 

 

My BYD has bi-directional charging giving me over 6 Tesla PowerWalls of extra backup power.

 

You are welcome to your opinions but you are not welcome to your own facts.

 

16 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Me thinketh you protestith too much.

 

There is too much disinformation posted about EVs and green technology by people that have no direct experience, yet they try to pass themselves off as experts.

 

I will continue to call out disinformation where I see it.

[RocketDog]

39 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Can I remind you that you posted:

 

“Higher initial cost, high maintenance costs, poor battery life and expensive replacements, and limited charging locations are a reality”

 

Higher cost I have addressed already as well as “limited charging locations”

 

My MG came with 5 years of completely free servicing (parts and labour) my BYD came with 8 years.

 

My BYD has 8 years 160,000km warranty guaranteed to have at least 70% battery capacity.

 

My house is 100% off-grid (no meter) and I can power my house, 2 EVs and electric motorbike from my solar. 

 

My BYD has bi-directional charging giving me over 6 Tesla PowerWalls of extra backup power.

 

You are welcome to your opinions but you are not welcome to your own facts.

 

 

There is too much disinformation posted about EVs and green technology by people that have no direct experience, yet they try to pass themselves off as experts.

 

I will continue to call out disinformation where I see it.

Again, I was addressing the ev market in general. NOT ONLY THAILAND AND YOUR CAR.

Also for every one who is happy as you are reports their experience, there are also many across ALL GLOBAL MARKETS who have had direct experience and are not pleased.

If their experiences are not taken as likely factual then yours cannot be taken differently.

 

Surely somebody somewhere has their own 'facts' that contradict yours.

 

Which should I believe assuming I will not buy an ev and gain my own facts? If my experience does not agree with yours should I not consider it factual? That leaves me in the embarrassing situation of determining my buying decisions based solely on the reportedly positive evaluations of complete strangers. Is that why you bought your ev?

 

Should I regard negative reviews on any product as false and positive as true? That seems derelict consumerism to me.

 

All I can say is if the rest of the world has a different experience and EV sales are dropping then that must mean something. Alternatively you are right and everybody with a different experience is wrong. I'll go with that one. Thanks for your insights.

I'm on my way to buy one each of every ev model in Thailand and gain my own direct experience. That would be a useful and fun exercise. That means I could drive a different ev every day of the month and I promise not to judge which ones I like the best. All ev are considered equal and my opinion would be worthless and could possibly persuade others not to buy, fools that they are.

I'll get back to you with the results. Just hold your breath. In th

e meantime please do continue your crusade of righteousness; the world will thank you for indisputable facts.  Such are very hard to come by these days.

Edited Saturday at 02:40 AM by RocketDog

[JBChiangRai]

25 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

All I can say is if the rest of the world has a different experience and EV sales are dropping then that must mean something.

 

Absolute nonsense.  EV sales are mostly increasing, UK 23% last month, Norway 94% last month. Thailand 15%, USA up 22.9% from Q1.

 

The only country I know with a hiccup is Germany dues to changes in subsidies.

[Bandersnatch]

49 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Should I regard negative reviews on any product as false and positive as true? That seems derelict consumerism to me

 

“I didn’t buy this toaster and have never even seen one in person, but I’ve chosen to give it a 1 star review as I think toasting under the grill is better”

 

49 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

EV sales are dropping then that must mean something

“In July 2024, one in seven vehicles sold globally was fully electric, with electric vehicles (EVs) accounting for 14.9% of total vehicle sales worldwide.”

https://www.edie.net/one-in-seven-new-cars-worldwide-is-now-electric/

 

49 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

I'm on my way to buy one each of every ev model in Thailand and gain my own direct experience

If you want  more information about EVs, you could do worse than check out my discussion:

 https://aseannow.com/topic/1257405-electric-vehicles-in-thailand 

at over 8,000 replies there is lots to get into.

 

I would also recommend a test drive. I might be a bit biased here but I would suggest you try my latest EV the BYD Seal AWD Performance, @JBChiangRai has one as well as do several other regular contributors to EVs in Thailand.

 

Edited Saturday at 03:25 AM by Bandersnatch