Can the Growatt SPF-5000ES inverter manage sodium-ion batteries?

[Mitker]

I'm starting collecting the components of my DIY off-grid hybrid solar system.
2 sets x (10x440W panels + hybrid inverter + 25kWh ESS 48V)
Panels, fittings and cables have been delivered.

I'm now in the stage of selecting the inverter model.
I'm thinking about 2 Growatt SPF-5000ES off-grid inverters, since the feed-backs seem generally positive and the price is attractive, given the functionalities. My choice is not final since I could find only a few local sellers on the net with very small volume of units sold (not too reassuring).
 

But getting back to the topic… While reading about the batteries models on the market and in development, I got the feeling that sodium-ion type may become, in a near (?) future, a great solution for fixed storage systems; seems to tick so many boxes.
I'm not about starting a discussion about the validity of such an assumption, but rather just taking it as an hypothesis in my search for an inverter. I may start with a small scale ESS with the types commonly offered on the market today (LiFePO4, AGM…), keeping the option for a significantly larger ESS pack within a few years, possibly adopting the sodium-ion type if they keep their promises meanwhile.
 

Reading the Growatt user manual, I found that the settings allow for a "user-defined" battery type choice ("USE" in the list of choices at point 5 of the UM). No more info is provided about the parameters involved.
Does it mean that this item could efficiently and safely manage sodium-ion batteries in the future, were the correct charging parameters set manually ? Is this "user-defined" option flexible enough ?
 

Any advice/experience would be appreciated (about this model or another, reasonably reliable, that would explicitly cover this option).
Thanks 😉

[JBChiangRai]

You might want to look at lithium titanate (LTO) batteries, they are much better suited to Solar ESS.

 

You can typically get 20,000 cycles and many inverters will support them, they have a relatively low energy density, which is not important for ESS

[Pink7]

3 hours ago, Mitker said:

I'm starting collecting the components of my DIY off-grid hybrid solar system.
2 sets x (10x440W panels + hybrid inverter + 25kWh ESS 48V)
Panels, fittings and cables have been delivered.

I'm now in the stage of selecting the inverter model.
I'm thinking about 2 Growatt SPF-5000ES off-grid inverters, since the feed-backs seem generally positive and the price is attractive, given the functionalities. My choice is not final since I could find only a few local sellers on the net with very small volume of units sold (not too reassuring).
 

But getting back to the topic… While reading about the batteries models on the market and in development, I got the feeling that sodium-ion type may become, in a near (?) future, a great solution for fixed storage systems; seems to tick so many boxes.
I'm not about starting a discussion about the validity of such an assumption, but rather just taking it as an hypothesis in my search for an inverter. I may start with a small scale ESS with the types commonly offered on the market today (LiFePO4, AGM…), keeping the option for a significantly larger ESS pack within a few years, possibly adopting the sodium-ion type if they keep their promises meanwhile.
 

Reading the Growatt user manual, I found that the settings allow for a "user-defined" battery type choice ("USE" in the list of choices at point 5 of the UM). No more info is provided about the parameters involved.
Does it mean that this item could efficiently and safely manage sodium-ion batteries in the future, were the correct charging parameters set manually ? Is this "user-defined" option flexible enough ?
 

Any advice/experience would be appreciated (about this model or another, reasonably reliable, that would explicitly cover this option).
Thanks 😉

Use and use 2 is for basic setup with inverter and BMS in the old way ( No communication) You set your own values but in the end you need to keep within some parameters to get the Growatt to work as it should related to Bulk, Float, SOF, to get charge to start up again in morning.

 

Pink

[Mitker]

11 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

You might want to look at lithium titanate (LTO) batteries, they are much better suited to Solar ESS.

 

You can typically get 20,000 cycles and many inverters will support them, they have a relatively low energy density, which is not important for ESS

Thanks for the info. I didn't know about this type.
Indeed, low density is not an issue.

However, one of the main advantages I see with the sodium type is that they don't rely on lithium (concerns in terms of sourcing channels and environmental impact).

[Mitker]

8 hours ago, Pink7 said:

Use and use 2 is for basic setup with inverter and BMS in the old way ( No communication) You set your own values but in the end you need to keep within some parameters to get the Growatt to work as it should related to Bulk, Float, SOF, to get charge to start up again in morning.

 

Pink

I plan to go in 2 steps. But the 2 solar sets, including their ESS, would always, at a given time, be similar and communicate.
 
The first step would rely on limited ESS packs based on current battery models. Given their low storage capacity, I see them more like a solar UPS than a full off-grid system
The second step would go full mode with a final choice of battery type. It would mean significantly upscaling the initial ESS units (keeping the original type), or replacing them entirely by adopting another type available in the future (possibly the sodium I mentioned).
(I wouldn't run two types of batteries at any stage, for ease of management)

Therefor, my question about the Growatt inverter being able to manage the Sodium-Ion battery type.

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, Mitker said:

Thanks for the info. I didn't know about this type.
Indeed, low density is not an issue.

However, one of the main advantages I see with the sodium type is that they don't rely on lithium (concerns in terms of sourcing channels and environmental impact).

 

 I think it’s a bit early for Sodium, they haven’t hit mainstream yet .  The issue I have with Sodium and LFP is the number of cycles.

 

They might only last 10 years. They could be costing you up to 2,000 baht per month.

 

There are LTO packs available on AliExpress that will last a lifetime.

[Pink7]

3 hours ago, Mitker said:

I plan to go in 2 steps. But the 2 solar sets, including their ESS, would always, at a given time, be similar and communicate.
 
The first step would rely on limited ESS packs based on current battery models. Given their low storage capacity, I see them more like a solar UPS than a full off-grid system
The second step would go full mode with a final choice of battery type. It would mean significantly upscaling the initial ESS units (keeping the original type), or replacing them entirely by adopting another type available in the future (possibly the sodium I mentioned).
(I wouldn't run two types of batteries at any stage, for ease of management)

Therefor, my question about the Growatt inverter being able to manage the Sodium-Ion battery type.

Even how much  like my Growatt inverters I learned from others and from experience that the settings i mentions for battery and for charge is very limited so you should try ask in the largest solar forum online on this specific topic.

 

Pink

[Mitker]

5 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 I think it’s a bit early for Sodium, they haven’t hit mainstream yet .  The issue I have with Sodium and LFP is the number of cycles.

 

They might only last 10 years. They could be costing you up to 2,000 baht per month.

 

There are LTO packs available on AliExpress that will last a lifetime.

I'll put them on my search list

[Mitker]

2 hours ago, Pink7 said:

Even how much  like my Growatt inverters I learned from others and from experience that the settings i mentions for battery and for charge is very limited so you should try ask in the largest solar forum online on this specific topic.

 

Pink

thanks. Good suggestion

[Bandersnatch]

I have 4 Growatt SPF5000ES. I contacted Growatt for a list of compatible batteries. 

 

I chose 4x9kWh nRuit batteries as they were Lithium iron phosphate with the cells made by CATL 

 

 

[Mitker]

9 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

I have 4 Growatt SPF5000ES. I contacted Growatt for a list of compatible batteries. 

 

I chose 4x9kWh nRuit batteries as they were Lithium iron phosphate with the cells made by CATL 

 

 

Pristine installation (and the whole room too actually), congrats !
Interesting info

From our contacts with Growatt Thailand, we've been told the SPF-5000ES isn't produced anymore, having been replaced by the SPF-6000ES.
As for our question about the Sodium-Ion battery compatibility of their products, they're "consulting with the engineer" and we're still waiting for the answer. Meanwhile, I'm digging into the specs of the 6000 to check if it fits our needs on the other aspects of the project.

Looks like this compatibility question, that seemed quite basic to me, isn't that obvious after all 😉

[Bandersnatch]

5 hours ago, Mitker said:

Looks like this compatibility question, that seemed quite basic to me, isn't that obvious after all 😉

 

Thanks for your kind words.

 

During bug fixing I recorded a video of me checking that the wiring between my inverters and my batteries which I shared with Growatt and nRuit. The video was set to private as I thought nobody would be interested in it. A couple of years later I was asked a question online that resulted in me making the video public. 

 

That video (probably the most boring video on YouTube) now has 40,000 views! 

 

 

[Mitker]

If this could be of any use for someone looking into the topic :

- We got in touch with a sales representative who asked 'the engineer'. After a while, we received an answer to our question : "yes" (it can manage Sodium-Ion batteries). I personally would have loved a somewhat more documented answer going further into the settings flexibility, but I guess we should be happy with that

- The SPF-5000ES has been discontinued and is replaced by the SPF6000 ES Plus