Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 9/10/2024 at 9:44 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Nice try, but Article 19 says you will pay tax in Thailand.

 

Don't mean to be a party pooper, but it's in black and white.

IMO you are wrong - you party pooper.  Read my posts. Up to you.

[deptrai]

Would a Roth IRA conversion in USA be considered income?  Its definitely a taxable event in the USA.

[geisha]

I don’t understand the title ! Thai gov to tax ( remitted) income from abroad ????

[anotherexpat4444]

On 5/19/2024 at 5:59 AM, Mike Lister said:

Key Date

 

28th June 2024 is 180 days into the calendar year.

 

The first tax returns are capable of being filed from then onwards.

 

If you don't want to be Thai tax resident this year and you've been here all year thus far, begone by the 27th.

how is this 180 day calculated .  

in my case  In this year 2024

in Jan I was for 20 days,

April,may,June -  3 month  . 

I plan go last week of October  and stay till Dec 31 .

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, anotherexpat4444 said:

how is this 180 day calculated .  

in my case  In this year 2024

in Jan I was for 20 days,

April,may,June -  3 month  . 

I plan go last week of October  and stay till Dec 31 .

 

 

Count up all the days you have been inside Thailand in 2024, and that includes the day yo arrive, and the day you leave. 

 

If the total is 180 days inside Thailand, you are a resident of Thailand for tax purposes, which MAY have some consequences. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/7/2024 at 1:44 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

I decided to also give you another answer besides -  Yes No No Yes etc.

As per the below notice to members - opinions are not facts , and if you want 'proof' go see a tax specialist.

 

 

 

 

Not really a reply, is it? 

 

The youtube video is from a tax specialist.  So, is he right, or is he wrong?  If right, why?  If wrong, why? 

 

I have posted his credentials.  Why would his professional advice not be worthy of consideration when compared to a "tax specialist?" 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:08 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

No No Yes No Yes No and No thanks

Fail. 

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, geisha said:

I don’t understand the title ! Thai gov to tax ( remitted) income from abroad ????

Any money earned overseas, in any way and sent to Thailand.

[Mike Teavee]

6 hours ago, anotherexpat4444 said:

how is this 180 day calculated .  

in my case  In this year 2024

in Jan I was for 20 days,

April,may,June -  3 month  . 

I plan go last week of October  and stay till Dec 31 .

 

 

Jan = 20 days

Apr = 30 days

May = 31 days

Jun = 30 days

Oct = 7 days

Nov = 30 days

Dec = 31 days

 

Total = 179 days. so not Tax Resident but double check your dates and be careful to include both the date you arrive & the date you leave.

 

[jwest10]

Quick question and we do not or so many so-called experts do not either and a very quick question which might have been asked before.
If funds brought in to Thailand from savings ie via Wise and obviously gone downwards since 31 Dec 2023 one does not declare this but no forms as if yet
Thanks all
John w

[jwest10]

On 9/9/2024 at 4:14 PM, sandyf said:

You are wrong. The law is not on foreigners per se, it is on all Thai tax residents.

The primary aim is collect revenue from high wealth individuals who may be generating income outside the country which is currently uncollected due to offshore tax avoidance.

Revenue from retired expat pensioners will pale into insignificance compared to the big fish, and the working expats should already be paying their taxes.

Except all around the world and Thailand they never ever go after the filthy rich do they but the easy target!!!

[jwest10]

6 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Any money earned overseas, in any way and sent to Thailand.

Not from savings whichj have obviously gone downwards since 31st Dec 2023

[chiang mai]

13 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Quick question and we do not or so many so-called experts do not either and a very quick question which might have been asked before.
If funds brought in to Thailand from savings ie via Wise and obviously gone downwards since 31 Dec 2023 one does not declare this but no forms as if yet
Thanks all
John w

Is your question about the money being from savings or is it about using Wise?

 

Either way, if the savings were not assessable and were earned before 31 December 2024, no, they do not need to be declared, UNLESS, the new forms require it.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

Not from savings whichj have obviously gone downwards since 31st Dec 2023

"Any money earned overseas, in any way and sent to Thailand".

 

Savings are not presumed to be income, especially those accumulated prior to 31 December 2023.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not really a reply, is it? 

 

The youtube video is from a tax specialist.  So, is he right, or is he wrong?  If right, why?  If wrong, why? 

 

I have posted his credentials.  Why would his professional advice not be worthy of consideration when compared to a "tax specialist?" 

Pick one and go with it mate.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

Quick question and we do not or so many so-called experts do not either and a very quick question which might have been asked before.
If funds brought in to Thailand from savings ie via Wise and obviously gone downwards since 31 Dec 2023 one does not declare this but no forms as if yet
Thanks all
John w

Savings and such forms of money are not income as defined in the TRD Revenue Code.

Advisory Notice | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

 

[sandyf]

6 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Except all around the world and Thailand they never ever go after the filthy rich do they but the easy target!!!

Indeed, and why I think it is being blown out of proportion.

I am not particularly concerned, can't see the turkeys voting for Christmas.

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/10/2024 at 2:44 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

Nice try, but Article 19 says you will pay tax in Thailand.

 

Don't mean to be a party pooper, but it's in black and white.

In the Australia forum, in relation to Article 19 of the DTA, you said, and I quote, "Forget about Article 19." 

 

You said this because, in your "interpretation" Article 19 had no impact on Article 18, despite Article 18 relying on the "provisions" of Article 19.

 

Now, here you are in a different forum saying Article 19 means tax must be paid. 

 

So, do we "forget about Article 19" or be concerned about Article 19? 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

16 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Except all around the world and Thailand they never ever go after the filthy rich do they but the easy target!!!

There's no easier targets than foreigners in living Thailand. 

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

In the Australia forum, in relation to Article 19 of the DTA, you said, and I quote, "Forget about Article 19." 

 

You said this because, in your "interpretation" Article 19 had no impact on Article 18, despite Article 18 relying on the "provisions" of Article 19.

 

Now, here you are in a different forum saying Article 19 means tax must be paid. 

 

So, do we "forget about Article 19" or be concerned about Article 19? 

 

 

 

Do you actually know what Articles 19 and 18 refer to ?

 

Before I respond to your question/s, you can break it down for me in layman's terms.

 

I will help you start it off.....

 

Article 18 stands for ........

 

Article 19 stands for ........

 

I honestly doubt you will be able to or decline to answer this simple question.

[KhunHeineken]

13 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

Do you actually know what Articles 19 and 18 refer to ?

 

Before I respond to your question/s, you can break it down for me in layman's terms.

 

I will help you start it off.....

 

Article 18 stands for ........

 

Article 19 stands for ........

 

I honestly doubt you will be able to or decline to answer this simple question.

You are the one who said, and I quote, yet again, "Forget about Article 19."  Do you deny posting these words? 

 

YOU saw the words "pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the contracting states shall be taxable only in that state" and declared that Australian expats didn't have to pay any tax Thailand because of the DTA. 

 

I requested you to comment on the words, "Subject to the provisions of Article 19" and you declined. 

 

See the words " Government Service" in Article 19?  Government Service IS NOT an aged pension from Centerlink.  
 

Do you get it now????

 

You can't "Forget about Article 19" because Article 19 directly relates to the function of Article 18. 

 

Here's Article 18.

 

 

Article 18

Pensions and annuities

 

1. Subject to the provisions of Article 19, pensions and annuities paid to a resident of one of the Contracting States shall be taxable only in that State.

 

2. The term "annuity" means a stated sum payable periodically at stated times during life or during a specified or ascertainable period of time under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration in money or money's worth.

 

Here's Article 19.

 

Article 19

Government service

 

1. Remuneration (other than a pension) paid by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State to any individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions shall be taxable only in that State. However, such remuneration shall be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the services are rendered in that other State and the recipient is a resident of that other State who:

 

(a) is a citizen or national of that other State; or

 

(b) did not become a resident of that other State solely for the purpose of performing the services.

 

2. Any pension paid to an individual in respect of services rendered in the discharge of governmental functions to one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of that State or a local authority of that State shall be taxable only in that State. Such pension shall, however, be taxable only in the other Contracting State if the recipient is a resident of, and a citizen or national of, that other State.

 

3. The provisions of paragraphs 1 and 2 shall not apply to remuneration or a pension in respect of services rendered in connection with any trade or business carried on by one of the Contracting States or a political subdivision of one of the States or a local authority of one of the States. In such a case, the provisions of Article 15, 16 or 18, as the case may be shall apply.

 

 

Watch between 16 minutes and 20 minutes.  Civil Service pensions exempt.  NO exemption for the aged pension.

 

What's funny is, in the Australia forum you say Article 19 means no tax to be paid in Thailand, but on this forum you have said Article 19 means tax has to be paid.  

 

Simply put, your "interpretations" are inaccurate and misleading, and unreliable.  In other words, useless.    

Edited September 14 by KhunHeineken

[Captain Flack]

I have removed one reported post for accusing others of trolling, just to try to force a reaction.
 

It is not my job to censor differences of opinions, which can be challenged within the topic.

[chiang mai]

Why is so much space being devoted to one aspect of Australian tax, if you don't know or can't agree, say so and move on but please, stop talking about your disagreement.

[stat]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:51 AM, chiang mai said:

Why is so much space being devoted to one aspect of Australian tax, if you don't know or can't agree, say so and move on but please, stop talking about your disagreement.

Ok from my point of view, I just glance over it. Sometimes there are things that apply to all nations but agreed 90% of the stuff not relevant for non aussies.

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/15/2024 at 9:51 AM, chiang mai said:

Why is so much space being devoted to one aspect of Australian tax, if you don't know or can't agree, say so and move on but please, stop talking about your disagreement.

Geez, maybe it's because of the DTA between Australia and Thailand, and how it effects Thailand's tax policy on foreigners. 

 

You are welcome to discuss your home country's DTA, and how it may apply to Thailand's tax.  Isn't that what this thread is for????

[Mike Teavee]

Deleted... 

Edited September 18 by Mike Teavee

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

Geez, maybe it's because of the DTA between Australia and Thailand, and how it effects Thailand's tax policy on foreigners. 

 

You are welcome to discuss your home country's DTA, and how it may apply to Thailand's tax.  Isn't that what this thread is for????

I am not opposed to constructive discussion but the recent exchanges were not that, they were continued bickering and disagreement with ten posts per page from you! The threads are intended to not be specific to one country, if posters can't agree or conclude a point, park it and move on for everyone else's sake. 

[stat]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I am not opposed to constructive discussion but the recent exchanges were not that, they were continued bickering and disagreement with ten posts per page from you! The threads are intended to not be specific to one country, if posters can't agree or conclude a point, park it and move on for everyone else's sake. 

DTAs are usually quite similar so you could learn from the Aussie discussion. It takes 1 sec to check if a post is AUS specific and skip it, so no problem IMHO.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, stat said:

DTAs are usually quite similar so you could learn from the Aussie discussion. It takes 1 sec to check if a post is AUS specific and skip it, so no problem IMHO.

I don't give a jot what's in the Oz DTA, I'm smart enough to be able to look at my own country's DTA and understand the rules specific to me.

[KhunHeineken]

20 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I am not opposed to constructive discussion but the recent exchanges were not that, they were continued bickering and disagreement with ten posts per page from you! The threads are intended to not be specific to one country, if posters can't agree or conclude a point, park it and move on for everyone else's sake. 

I didn't report your personal attack directed to me.  In fact, I have never reported anyone, for anything.  Free speech and all.  Some members have taken advantage of that, but no problem for me. 

 

The cricket was canceled the other night so I decided to catch up with some posts.  There were some interesting posts and I wanted to reply.  So what? 

 

I have proven you are the most prolific poster in these tax threads. 

 

You are the leading poster in the thread in which you personally attacked me, and you are currently sitting in 3rd Place with 130 posts on this thread, and here you are saying I had too many posts on one page for your liking.  Well boo hoo. 

 

We already have USA, UK and Australia forums.  This forum is for all nationalities.  Should a few posts get a roll on for any particular nationality, so what?  Scroll a little.  Is that so difficult? 

 

I don't complain when there's a page of Americans discussing the IRS, or Brit's discussing HMRC. 

 

You are trying to make it too specific to the point it restricts an open discussion on the forum.  Why?