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Posted
Just now, Phulublub said:

Why would it?  My UK pension is taxed as income.....do any countries not count pensions as income?

 

PH

 

That the UK views pension as income does not have a direct bearing on the way the TRD views it. The TRD views income from employment differently from other types of income, mostly I suspect because of the PAYE aspect. Each of the different types of income have their own rules, including allowances and deductions but I have never looked at them that closely to understand precisely how they differ from an accounting perspective..

  • Agree 1
Posted
22 hours ago, stat said:

Thx for your post! Do you get any interest on your deposit or can you do any brokerage with your deposit? Thanks!

 

If you are referring to interest here, I would assume it's minimal as the account is a daily transactable account, e.g. I don't want to lock up my funds for a higher rate. The reason I do that is that I draw down on the money to survive on.

 

I have the same account back home, but they think I am a resident of my home country, and as there is a tax threshold, I pay no tax on interest earned back there. Now you might say, why not tell them you are a non resident and allow them to collect the withholding tax (10%). Fact of the matter is, I don't trust banks and I don't want them passing my account information onto anyone, as they do, do this.

  • Like 1
Posted
3 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Wow - Germany is definitely not a place to visit for longer than 3 months.  

 

If you do not have any money, Germany is the place to be, if you have money you pay taxes big time.

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Posted
3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Hi!  I'll answer that. 

 

Last week wife and I went to our local tax office to update my TIN card with a new address.  I was told since I have a pink ID, I use that number when filing.  District office called provincial office to have my pink ID number entered into the e-filing system.  Tax office lady said given my remittances were not assessable (all prior savings), that I did NOT need to file, unless I wanted to apply for refund of tax paid (interest and dividends).

 

A couple days later, wife and I logged onto the system and set up my e-filing account.  A few days later (on Sunday) we logged on again and filed three returns (2021, 2022, 2023). 

 

No assessable remitted income.  Claimed interest from BKK Bank and SET dividends, along with tax withheld.  Less than 15 minutes per return, mostly due to cut'n'pasting into online translator.  No documents required to upload. 

 

 

Did they demand any proof? I guess it was not a mingled account? Thanks!

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Posted
2 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Why would it?  My UK pension is taxed as income.....do any countries not count pensions as income?

 

PH

Th for some reason does not tax German government pension. In the DTA,  TH has the sole right to tax, but they don't do it.

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Posted
58 minutes ago, stat said:

Did they demand any proof? I guess it was not a mingled account? Thanks!

 

Remember, this is just my single data point anecdote....YKMV!

 

But I suspect is the most common experience for non-employed foreigners in Thailand.  If you work or involved in business here, filing probably required regardless of total income (my opinion).

 

Sit down at the desk across from the tax officer.  Tell them the numbers, or in my case hand them a single hand-written paper with the relevant numbers:  total Thai bank interest, total tax withheld, total SET dividends received, total tax withheld, total remittances.

 

Interest and dividends total about 6K, interest about 1K, remitted about 310K.  Officer asked if remittance was salary or pension.  I said it was savings.  No request for foreign bank statements was requested, simple self assessment.  (Turns out my deductions and 0% tax bracket would total 320K, includes wife's social/health insurance payments.)  Officer said do NOT need to file.  I asked about filing for refund of tax paid.  Officer says yes, can, if I choose to.

 

No documents were requested at this point to reach the NO filing determination.  (Small values and no Thai salary.)  I had the dividend payment receipts available, and bank passbooks,  but not the bank interest statement, as no desire to wait several hours in the local branch for a printout for such a small sum.

 

I asked about online filing - would I need to upload any documents such as dividend receipts or interest statement.  Officer said not necessary.  We then set up online filing.  My TIN was cancelled and my pink ID card number was entered in the e-file system.  Officer let me retain the TIN card for my files.

 

We later filed three online tax returns, all filed late, about 15 minutes each.  Confirm no documents required to upload.  The payer tax ID number (BKK Bank and broker) was required to submit this section.  Got final PD90 and receipt for 2021 and 2022.  It appears no refund if filing over one year late, but no late filing fee.  Paid a 200 baht late fee by bank transfer for 2023, and will receive an 850 baht check in the mail in a week or so, final PD90 and receipt will be available via the online system.

 

My local tax office says NO file needed.  I shall file online annually simply to have a record of filing.  It's fun and easy.

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 2
Posted
29 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

If you are non tax resident in Thailand (maximum 179 days) you pay no Thai tax, you do not file a tax return.
 

FWIW You can be a tax resident in 1 year but not a tax resident the next year and a tax resident in the following year.

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Posted
1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If you are non tax resident in Thailand (maximum 179 days) you pay no Thai tax, you do not file a tax return.
 

FWIW You can be a tax resident in 1 year but not a tax resident the next year and a tax resident in the following year.

 

I know this, but there has been recent talk that would appear to contradict this.

1 - Regarding getting a TIN within a certain number of days of crossing the 'tax free' allowance threshold
2 - Just crossing the threshold itself seems to indicate that people are required to file a tax return

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Posted
2 hours ago, stat said:

Th for some reason does not tax German government pension. In the DTA,  TH has the sole right to tax, but they don't do it.

Are you saying, if in the old days, and you remitted your German pension to Thailand in year earned -- they wouldn't tax it, if you filed a tax return? I believe you're confusing not filing, and the "pension remitted is previous year's earnings" charade, as your observation that Thailand doesn't tax it.

 

"They don't tax it" is, of course, the illogical extension of "I didn't file a Thai tax return for this income." Duh.

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Posted
5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

Any idea how this applies if you're non resident due to staying under 180 days? That will remain largely unknown until towards the end of the year depending on how many days are spent in Thailand.

It's very possible that people send more money than the yearly allowances in January to cover normal living expenses and then leave for the rest of the year.

This is specifically with regards to obtaining a TID and filing during the first half of the year.

 

I'm sure many people will remit plenty of Baht and keep below the 180 day threshold inside the first half of the year and there are rules about getting a tax ID which surely don't apply to those who will be non resident at the end of the year - or do they?

If you are not tax resident, you have no income tax obligation in Thailand.

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Posted
14 hours ago, geisha said:

Thanks, but as I said , he would prefer to sell the house , but he would not bring the money into Thailand as he has a very good bank in the UK that he trusts and where he also has his life savings invested. His plan is/ was transferring around 2500 to 3000 £ a month ( depending on how the care home wants to be paid) to a Thai bank account. (  Of course that’s excluding a visa and health insurance) So, for example , he would receive a total of not more than 36000£ every year into Thailand, how can we find out if he’s going to be taxed on this amount , and by how much. 
He has traveled extensively all his life so he’s not a naive traveler and the Care home seems great. He’s fed up with the UK weather , and gets bored , he’d be better off in Thailand with a pool and good weather and lots of activities proposed.

He could always stay under the 6 months as I proposed and avoid tax. Otherwise we have a lot of family in Australia where he could live very near them . He’d prefer Thailand.

its just the missing info on the tax situation . Thanks.

It depends what the THB1.6m consists of, but if they are to sell their primary residence and other large transactions in the UK, perhaps best NOT becoming Thai Tax until it becomes savings in the UK or rebased investments (perhaps including those within UK  S&S ISAs, depending on their composition).

 

 

 

 

  • Agree 1
Posted
8 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

I know this, but there has been recent talk that would appear to contradict this.

1 - Regarding getting a TIN within a certain number of days of crossing the 'tax free' allowance threshold
2 - Just crossing the threshold itself seems to indicate that people are required to file a tax return

Speculation based on surmise and poor information.

 

Having a Thai tax number (TIN) has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

Having a large (or moderate) income has no tax implications if you are non tax resident 

If you are non Thai tax resident you are liable to NO Thai income tax

If you are non Thai tax resident you there is NO requirement to file a tax return 

 

NB all the above is related to income that is not earned or generated in THAILAND but is brought into Thailand.

income that is earned or generated in Thailand has totally different exceptions and the vast majority of non Thai earners have the returns completed on their behalf.

Digital nomads are in a category of their own, the position for them is somewhat fluid.

 

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Posted
15 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Hi!  I'll answer that. 

 

Last week wife and I went to our local tax office to update my TIN card with a new address.  I was told since I have a pink ID, I use that number when filing.  District office called provincial office to have my pink ID number entered into the e-filing system.  Tax office lady said given my remittances were not assessable (all prior savings), that I did NOT need to file, unless I wanted to apply for refund of tax paid (interest and dividends).

 

A couple days later, wife and I logged onto the system and set up my e-filing account.  A few days later (on Sunday) we logged on again and filed three returns (2021, 2022, 2023). 

 

No assessable remitted income.  Claimed interest from BKK Bank and SET dividends, along with tax withheld.  Less than 15 minutes per return, mostly due to cut'n'pasting into online translator.  No documents required to upload. 

 

Thanks - that is good information.  I am sure that a basic lodgement would only take 15-30 minutes or so, if all documentation is available as it was for you and nothing needed to be attached. But I doubt if anyone was doing a full online return and claiming exemptions and allowances that it would probably not be so simple, but with most Expats there will be issues that have something to do with a DTA and that is not possible to lodge online. But TRD has said that they are revamping the online system - lets see what comes out later this year.

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Posted
10 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Remember, this is just my single data point anecdote....YKMV!

 

But I suspect is the most common experience for non-employed foreigners in Thailand.  If you work or involved in business here, filing probably required regardless of total income (my opinion).

 

Sit down at the desk across from the tax officer.  Tell them the numbers, or in my case hand them a single hand-written paper with the relevant numbers:  total Thai bank interest, total tax withheld, total SET dividends received, total tax withheld, total remittances.

 

Interest and dividends total about 6K, interest about 1K, remitted about 310K.  Officer asked if remittance was salary or pension.  I said it was savings.  No request for foreign bank statements was requested, simple self assessment.  (Turns out my deductions and 0% tax bracket would total 320K, includes wife's social/health insurance payments.)  Officer said do NOT need to file.  I asked about filing for refund of tax paid.  Officer says yes, can, if I choose to.

 

No documents were requested at this point to reach the NO filing determination.  (Small values and no Thai salary.)  I had the dividend payment receipts available, and bank passbooks,  but not the bank interest statement, as no desire to wait several hours in the local branch for a printout for such a small sum.

 

I asked about online filing - would I need to upload any documents such as dividend receipts or interest statement.  Officer said not necessary.  We then set up online filing.  My TIN was cancelled and my pink ID card number was entered in the e-file system.  Officer let me retain the TIN card for my files.

 

We later filed three online tax returns, all filed late, about 15 minutes each.  Confirm no documents required to upload.  The payer tax ID number (BKK Bank and broker) was required to submit this section.  Got final PD90 and receipt for 2021 and 2022.  It appears no refund if filing over one year late, but no late filing fee.  Paid a 200 baht late fee by bank transfer for 2023, and will receive an 850 baht check in the mail in a week or so, final PD90 and receipt will be available via the online system.

 

My local tax office says NO file needed.  I shall file online annually simply to have a record of filing.  It's fun and easy.

 

More confirmation that the advice I got, not to lodge a tax return is correct, and that TRD does not want people to lodge a tax return if they are not employed and if they have no tax to pay or to claim back. That is why as advised by the other tax expert, TRD does not chase retired/married old Expats living in Thailand or all the 10s of millions of Thais that do not lodge a return.  No is that official -= NO - but it is how TRD has operated with regards to filing a tax return.  Will that change this year - maybe - stay tuned. 

 

As stated before, I have calculated that I have no tax to pay in Thailand, after allowances, exemptions and DSTA provisions, so therefore I will not be lodging a tax return - and I will be keeping detailed records of those calculations and the financial records used - unless TRD states that I and 10s of millions of other Thais must lodge a tax return.

 

 

  • Like 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

More confirmation that the advice I got, not to lodge a tax return is correct, and that TRD does not want people to lodge a tax return if they are not employed and if they have no tax to pay or to claim back. That is why as advised by the other tax expert, TRD does not chase retired/married old Expats living in Thailand or all the 10s of millions of Thais that do not lodge a return.  No is that official -= NO - but it is how TRD has operated with regards to filing a tax return.  Will that change this year - maybe - stay tuned. 

 

As stated before, I have calculated that I have no tax to pay in Thailand, after allowances, exemptions and DSTA provisions, so therefore I will not be lodging a tax return - and I will be keeping detailed records of those calculations and the financial records used - unless TRD states that I and 10s of millions of other Thais must lodge a tax return.

 

 

Respectfully, your posts on this aspect, only confirm what has happened historically rather than what happens today or what is likely to happen tomorrow, as a forecast, they are not too useful.

Posted

@Mike Lister

So, the advantage of filing even if not required is, an audit will only go back 3 years,  not 10 (and no 2000 fine).

How many times does one have to have filed to get this advantage?

Just having filed last year is good enough?

3 years? 

10 years? 

 

Posted
54 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

penalties being relatively insignificant.

Significant for the university students

Posted
5 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

IMO based upon current TRD 'practice' they dont want 1 or 2 - which does ignore the technical BS literal rules - but that is their decision.

 

Immigration and TRD also do not enforce the Law that states all Foreigners must get a tax clearance certificate before leaving Thailand. 

Immigration does not enforce the literal words in the TM30 Law and many other Laws.

Police do not enforce the rules (much) regarding wearing a helmet - and many other traffic rules.

 

Thailand does not follow the centralised nanny state government process where every single thing they do is written down in a rule or in a  regulation, and where every single person can challenge them if they do anything that is not strictly within those rules and regulations, or challenge them if they do something that is contrary to those rules and regulations.  Compliance with every single literal rule and regulation, and armies of bureaucrats constantly updating and amending those rules and regulations, and another army training all the bureaucrats on any new changes or amendments, is NOT how Thailand operates. That is why in Thailand, the reality is that Officers across all Government positions have full legal autonomy in their interpretation and application of the 'rules'.  TRD has made it clear what they want - they do not want 10s of millions of unneeded tax returns - but they are not going to rewrite the rules - but they can change that at any time - stay tuned folks.

"the reality is that Officers across all Government positions have full legal autonomy in their interpretation and application of the 'rules'". 

 

This implies that Thailand has no legal system and no rule of law.

 

"Thailand’s new prime minister is placing the rule of law at the center of his government’s priorities over the next four years.  Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin announced his government’s commitment earlier this month at the Rule of Law Forum in Bangkok co-hosted by the World Justice Project (WJP), the Thailand Institute of Justice (TIJ), and The Standard news agency".

 

https://worldjusticeproject.org/news/thai-government-announces-rule-law-commitment-during-wjp-hosted-rule-law-forum

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