Having kids when old

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, patman30 said:

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your statement makes a broad generalisation that oversimplifies the issue.

 

Many young people today have a deep and nuanced understanding of the world, often surpassing that of some older individuals

i was not referring to a young person being compared to other people

my younger self was an idiot compared to my today self
you cannot have a better understanding of this world when young compared to when YOU are old
our understanding of this world typically increases with age.
well for most of us it does, you may be proving me wrong though lol

 

Anecdotally you are correct - I know more of the world now, than I did when I was 25.

 

But, there are plenty of travelled 25 year olds with a more nuanced understanding of the that your Pattaya sex-pat who's retired and traveled after working a factory life....  

 

.. as such, I wanted to point out that any generalisation from this perspective is flawed. 

 

 

 

[patman30]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

But, there are plenty of travelled 25 year olds with a more nuanced understanding of the that your Pattaya sex-pat who's retired and traveled after working a factory life....  

again i was never comparing one person to another
you can easily say there are plenty of dumb 20's in the world just as there are plenty of dumb 70 year olds
and you are also appealing to extremes
the average person will not be well travelled
and those who can have their view of the world, which may seem amazing on the surface but all it means is they are still yet to enter the real world
and why would a backpacker suddenly be a good role model father?
they are likely either in a lot of debt or living off mummy and daddy
very few can actually earn and travel
i never planned to have children when young, as it would not be fair bringing a child into this world without stability
many people have the illusion of stability, and many just do not even think about it

so talking about what is fair for the child
why is it fair to bring a child into this world without any stability, where the parents must work and have little time for the child, and the child must be indoctrinated by the state as the parents do not have time to raise them?

 

i am semi-retired but done so young, i now have 2 boys, who will be my entire focus
i have land, house, car, solar, food, everything i need to care for them and all the time i need to raise them to be the best MEN they can be.
i could not have done this when younger, it would have been impossible.

 

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

think any such generalisation and binary discussion highlights how some people are indeed out of touch.  

 

You've assumed all younger people are woke and have no grip on reality - thats rather flawed thinking.

"Binary discussion" ....... But you're not woke!

[fredwiggy]

There is also this...........https://www.givelegacy.com/resources/the-impact-of-parental-age-on-intelligence-and-life-span/

[bubblegum]

Children brrrrrrr

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Last thing I'd want to do in bring up kids in 50s 60s or 70s

We all have personal opinions.
 

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Link, proof please.

It´s full with information. The only thing you had to do was search on google instead of posting a request.

[KannikaP]

39 minutes ago, patman30 said:

you can easily say there are plenty of dumb 20's in the world just as there are plenty of dumb 70 year olds

Yeh, but they don't stand for POTUS !   555

[NickyLouie]

It's pathetic seeing some Grandad looking fool pushing around what should be his grandchild.

 

Have kids when you are young and enjoy your latter life.

[KannikaP]

5 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

It's pathetic seeing some Grandad looking fool pushing around what should be his grandchild.

 

Have kids when you are young and enjoy your latter life.

How would you know whether the man pushing the buggie was its Dad or Grandad?

[patman30]

13 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

Have kids when you are young and enjoy your latter life.

you see i took the opposite approach
i grafted when young, so i could provide better
so my boys could enjoy a better upbringing
now i can enjoy my time with my boys which is much more enjoyable with them than without them.
and whatever else you think i could be doing, been there done that got the t-shirt.

[marin]

I was 45 and my wife 38 when our twins were born. The doctor scared the heck out of my wife by bringing up the fact that having a kid with an older parent can result in Downs Syndrome. Even just one parent. 

 

45 was great and I was active with them until they moved to America for university at 17. Still can keep up with them, but perhaps not if I had had them 10 years later. 

 

We were shown this survey from Norway There appears to be an increase risk (perhaps 20 to 30%) of Down syndrome associated with older fathers, independent of maternal age effect. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1048652/#:~:text=There appears to be an,independent of maternal age effect.

[NickyLouie]

25 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How would you know whether the man pushing the buggie was its Dad or Grandad?

 

coz normally wit Issan darkling from Nakon Nowhere and speaks 0 Thai

[brewsterbudgen]

Define old?  I had my only child at 55, but don't really consider that to be 'old'.

[NickyLouie]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

Define old?  I had my only child at 55, but don't really consider that to be 'old'.

 

Over 70 when graduates high school ?

 

Papi that's old AF

[KannikaP]

3 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

 

coz normally wit Issan darkling from Nakon Nowhere and speaks 0 Thai

How many have you seen pushing buggies then, and known the relationship? 

[KannikaP]

2 minutes ago, NickyLouie said:

 

Over 70 when graduates high school ?

 

Papi that's old AF

Come back when you have something intelligent to say please.

 

[richard_smith237]

48 minutes ago, patman30 said:

again i was never comparing one person to another
you can easily say there are plenty of dumb 20's in the world just as there are plenty of dumb 70 year olds
and you are also appealing to extremes
the average person will not be well travelled
and those who can have their view of the world, which may seem amazing on the surface but all it means is they are still yet to enter the real world
and why would a backpacker suddenly be a good role model father?
they are likely either in a lot of debt or living off mummy and daddy
very few can actually earn and travel
i never planned to have children when young, as it would not be fair bringing a child into this world without stability
many people have the illusion of stability, and many just do not even think about it

so talking about what is fair for the child
why is it fair to bring a child into this world without any stability, where the parents must work and have little time for the child, and the child must be indoctrinated by the state as the parents do not have time to raise them?

 

i am semi-retired but done so young, i now have 2 boys, who will be my entire focus
i have land, house, car, solar, food, everything i need to care for them and all the time i need to raise them to be the best MEN they can be.
i could not have done this when younger, it would have been impossible.

 

 

 

Obviously the fairest 'thing' for a child is to have caring parents that can provide for them and have a stronger likelihood of being around at least until they reach adulthood.

 

Anything, is better than poor parenting...    no matter the age range of the parents matters.

 

I do agree with your point, when considering the 'bell curve' the median group of older folk will be more 'worldly wise' and prepared to bring a child into the 'real world' than the younger group - but thats just 'one facet' of a multifaceted discussion into which many factors should be considered. 

 

Another facet is 'what is the mother like' ???...    especially in area's such as Thailand...  when considering the parental demographics of a 70 year old father, is the mother likely to be much younger, less educated from a poorer demographic and and less able to guide the child at home from the perspective of education and international awareness etc - so that factor also comes into it.

 

 

I would have liked to have had children sooner, but I was less mature and had never met the right person to settle down with...   thus, our own maturity also comes into it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

4 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

 

Did you just make this up?

Probably not, as what is you life expectancy for the year you were born ?

51 now, if a Yank, that would be 67.4 yrs old, if born 1973.

 

"have kids in late 60's early 70's." .... yea, let that one sink in 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

think any such generalisation and binary discussion highlights how some people are indeed out of touch.  

 

You've assumed all younger people are woke and have no grip on reality - thats rather flawed thinking.

"Binary discussion" ....... But you're not woke!

 

It means you’re stuck in a simplistic, black-and-white view of the world, where only two perspectives exist, which you can’t even bother to understand.

It has absolutely nothing to do with being "woke" and everything to do with your stubborn inability to grasp anything beyond your own narrow, self-absorbed outlook.

 

 

 

 

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, patman30 said:

you see i took the opposite approach
i grafted when young, so i could provide better
so my boys could enjoy a better upbringing
now i can enjoy my time with my boys which is much more enjoyable with them than without them.
and whatever else you think i could be doing, been there done that got the t-shirt.

Same here.

[JBChiangRai]

It’s important to remember that having children is a long-term commitment.

 

You need to be young enough to be sure you are there for them as they get into their early 20s, likewise if you have a track record of several marriages and if they never lasting longer than 10 or 15 years than you’re better giving it a miss.

If you really want to do some good, then adopt children.

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

1 hour ago, patman30 said:

you see i took the opposite approach
i grafted when young, so i could provide better
so my boys could enjoy a better upbringing
now i can enjoy my time with my boys which is much more enjoyable with them than without them.
and whatever else you think i could be doing, been there done that got the t-shirt.

Same here.

 

I honestly don't think it matters too much at all.. 

 

What does matter is that any child receives a decent and balanced up brining...

 

Some people on this thread alone already highlight a distorted outlook to such a degree I'd question their ability to do a half decent job of parenting whatever their age.

 

Thus: If someone is 70 years old or 20 years old there are key facets that matter and many secondary pro's and con's that are not such a big deal after all. 

 

 

I think someone planning to have children at 70 years old may have many questions to ask of themselves, just as someone planning to have children at 20 years old does - but there is a large space between those extremes whereby other factors also matter. 

 

Its not a simple issue, there plenty of factors at play... and a good 70 year old or 20 year old father is a better father than a 35 year old drunk who ignores their child (just as a simple example). 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If you really want to do some good, then adopt children.

 

That was my outlook after marriage when my Wife and I were trying to have a child. 

 

If things didn't 'work out' we could still do something good for the world and adopt... 

 

But that potentially raised other questions...   adopt a caucasian child, a Thai child, mixed etc...   bigger picture, it doesn't matter so long as the parenting is 'solid'.... but just like this topic, there are a lot of smaller issues and points that once we get into the 'nuts and bolts of things' surface and perhaps give pause for thought.... 

 

 

[KannikaP]

4 hours ago, KannikaP said:

In my case, my retirement money, investments and savings go to my Mrs & his Mum.

Someone put CONFUSED on this post. Whoever it was, please be so good as to tell me at what you are confused. Thanks.

[patman30]

29 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Obviously the fairest 'thing' for a child is to have caring parents that can provide for them and have a stronger likelihood of being around at least until they reach adulthood.

agreed, for this you need maturity and financial stability, something many young adults lack.

 

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Anything, is better than poor parenting...    no matter the age range of the parents matters.

Yes, and we just agreed, people have a better understanding of everything when they are older, and as i stated younger adults do not have the time.
 

 

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Another facet is 'what is the mother like' ???...    especially in area's such as Thailand...  when considering the parental demographics of a 70 year old father, is the mother likely to be much younger, less educated from a poorer demographic and and less able to guide the child at home from the perspective of education and international awareness etc - so that factor also comes into it.

i believe the the traditional family unit, The Male/father should lead and his wife support him while they both fulfil their roles
we keep getting to the 70 year old extreme end of the argument, which i have said is not good
but having children young or very young is worse than having them when a bit older 40-50 (60 even if in great health and financially secure)
the woman's age is less important to myself providing she is healthy and can care for the child
older women having children can be much more problematic
but then we get into the age gap argument

 

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I would have liked to have had children sooner, but I was less mature and had never met the right person to settle down with...   thus, our own maturity also comes into it.

maybe i am assuming too much, but your past maturity is why you were not foolish like most to rush into something with the wrong person, and you wish you had them sooner as they bring so much joy,

i wish i had the joy my boys bring sooner, but if they came sooner i might not be on the path i am currently on, which is very enjoyable as i have my boys with me.

 

[patman30]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its not a simple issue, there plenty of factors at play... and a good 70 year old or 20 year old father is a better father than a 35 year old drunk who ignores their child

agreed, however i still stand by older is better than young
sadly this is the world we live in
but there are very few young people capable of providing a quality life for the child when they are still 20 years old
they are simply too busy with work etc and many have their priorities wrong at such an age,
now if they can work hard, retire before 40 then have kids and all the time they need to raise them and spend time with them
whilst being able to provide for the child's needs and also having much more life experience.....
that is where i am at, intentionally.

[Gobbler]

5 hours ago, Celsius said:

I am starting to think that maybe for a man it is a good idea to have kids in late 60's early 70's.

 

You get to spend your hard earned money on them without a care in the world. You get to see them when they are the cutest. They will keep your brain active because you want to be there for them and teach them new things. Hopefully you croak once they reach 15 years of age so the chances of them giving you heart attack or dementia at that age are low. 

 

I'm 51, so still got some time to think about it, but I think that's the way to go.

 

 

I think 60's is too old. I had mine at 43. You won't be around for the baby for a long time. It cheats them. 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, patman30 said:

agreed, however i still stand by older is better than young
sadly this is the world we live in
but there are very few young people capable of providing a quality life for the child when they are still 20 years old
they are simply too busy with work etc and many have their priorities wrong at such an age,
now if they can work hard, retire before 40 then have kids and all the time they need to raise them and spend time with them
whilst being able to provide for the child's needs and also having much more life experience.....
that is where i am at, intentionally.

 

Yeah... valid point..... 

 

It raises the question - does being 'available' for our children 100% of the time give them more ???

 

I wonder if this might impact 'independence' ??...... (just thinking out loud).

 

 

I am one of those parents who are away a lot at work... at least half of my time.

But that also gives me a lot of quality time to spend with my son.... so there are already pro's and con's with my individual situation and the time I personally have to give him.

 

 

 

 

[Gobbler]

My 17-year-old talks me for hours a day.  Question after question which I am happy to discuss with him. 

 

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, Gobbler said:

I think 60's is too old. I had mine at 43. You won't be around for the baby for a long time. It cheats them. 

 

I personally think that too....  but wouldn't pass judgement on a 60 year old having a child, if they were financially stable, could provide solid education (international standards in Thailand), and were healthy and energetic... they'd be 80 when their child is 20 years old... thats not so bad.

 

At my Son's school there are a couple of older Western Fathers, they clearly have the time to pick up their children along with all the 'school mums'....   I see them from time to time when I pick my son up from school, I have a chat with them, they are good guys...   I think their children will benefit having them as a father - they are clever successful guys....  who either deliberately or accidentally had another shot at parenting - I don't think there is a great deal wrong with that.

 

Equally so, I know a couple of young lads (from football) who have had children at a young age (20's) and they dote on their kids, they are not as financially stable and their children will suffer from an education perspective as they can't afford the top end International schools...  nevertheless, their kids have a father who'll go to the ends of the earth for them. 

 

As mentioned many times already - there is a whole spectrum and I think the most important is that a child has caring parents who can bring them up in an emotionally safe environment.... 

... after that comes financial support and of course standards of education.