Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[soalbundy]

On 11/7/2024 at 7:37 AM, proton said:

No thanks, and any tax return forms will go in the bin. No taxation without representation, or at least something back for it.

We'll be watching your progress in court. Don't try to be clever with the tax office, you have more chance of leniency in a homicide case.

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Now I'm even more confused!

Your posts appear 100% to be judging every expat living in Thailand.

Even your quoted post judged me as a criminal.

 

Amazing Thailand

 

Where did I mention anything to do with crime ?
 

I think you were the one yesterday, that was accusing people of crimes. Oblivious to the fact that the person could be a Thai Citizen.

 

Cap fits, wear it with pride.

[redwood1]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

This is not the US.

 

Maybe you go back to Kansas Toto.

 

A bank becoming a tax office 100% WILL NOT WORK EVER...

Do you understand?

 

Its already failed before it started....So no one needs to do this...Not now not ever....

 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Amazing Thailand

Where did I mention anything to do with crime ?
I think you were the one yesterday, that was accusing people of crimes. Oblivious to the fact that the person could be a Thai Citizen.

 

Cap fits, wear it with pride.

I've never claimed to be non-judgmental, that was your claim.

You were judged by me and found wanting the moment you posted shill videos from a disreputable source.

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

You were judged by me and found wanting

 

😀😀😀😀😀

 

Aye OK

 

Wonder who posted this

 

Quote

Worst case, I can get a VISA outside of Thailand (no money in Thai bank), not have a bank account in my name here, and get her to open a bank account in her name (and on my phone) for me to use in Thailand.

Edited 5 minutes ago by BritManToo

 

 

Sweating much ?

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Ok take the USA....Has anyone EVER been required to submit their income sources to ANY bank for tax purposes?

 

Nope Never.......

 

Maybe because the bank is not the IRS......Its not the banks job to be the IRS...

 

 

The whole concept of of a bank becoming a tax office is ridiculous and makes no sense.....And will not work...But dumb ideas like this never seem to be in short supply around here.

 

 

This is not the USA, it's Thailand, things are very different here....get used to it.

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm confused by your keenness to comply and help the authorities?

IMHO civil disobedience is always the way forward.

And if they need to audit everyone, then take us all to court, let them do it!

My VISA extension is good until Nov 2025, what can they do to me before that?

 

The more compliant you are, the worse it will be for everyone!

 

Wow BM, even for you that's a stretch!

 

Civil disobedience by foreigners, do you have any idea how many nano-seconds that would be tolerated.

 

" My VISA extension is good until Nov 2025, what can they do to me before that?" Cancel it and kick your arse out, that's what.

 

"The more compliant you are, the worse it will be for everyone!" Translated into English that reads, the more you follow the rules, the more difficult it will be for you not to!!!

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

😀😀😀😀😀

Aye OK

Wonder who posted this

Sweating much ?

Not at all, I don't really give a poop what hot country I live in.

[anchadian]

Not going through all these posts looking for it.

 

Has anyone considered transferring gift(s) to your wife or girlfriend?

 

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

This would work in my case as my girlfriend has a job and she has told me on several occasions not to give her any money, but I do anyway (her savings account is very healthy).

Apologies if already discussed previously.

[In Full Agreement]

1 minute ago, anchadian said:

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

Great idea.    Then she can run off with her young Thai boyfriend.

 

 

[redwood1]

37 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Not going through all these posts looking for it.

 

Has anyone considered transferring gift(s) to your wife or girlfriend?

 

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

This would work in my case as my girlfriend has a job and she has told me on several occasions not to give her any money, but I do anyway (her savings account is very healthy).

Apologies if already discussed previously.

 

Yes gift giving has been discuses endlessly here on these threads....

 

And the pro tax people think big brother will be watching your gift giving 24/7/365 and grill you endlessly about your gift giving intent...So be scared...

 

And the anti tax people think gift giving is a great idea.And will just be doing it, without getting sucked into the legalize rat hole that just goes no and on. and changes by the day around this subject..

[chiang mai]

57 minutes ago, anchadian said:

Not going through all these posts looking for it.

 

Has anyone considered transferring gift(s) to your wife or girlfriend?

 

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

This would work in my case as my girlfriend has a job and she has told me on several occasions not to give her any money, but I do anyway (her savings account is very healthy).

Apologies if already discussed previously.

You seem to have the main details already, only thing to note is that the gifted funds are still assessible on you, if tax assessable funds are used. In other words, you cannot use Gift Tax to avoid tax assessment on remitted funds, just by gifting them to another.

[chiang mai]

24 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Yes gift giving has been discuses endlessly here on these threads....

 

And the pro tax people think big brother will be watching your gift giving 24/7/365 and grill you endlessly about your gift giving intent...So be scared...

 

And the anti tax people think gift giving is a great idea.And will just be doing it, without getting sucked into the legalize rat hole that just goes no and on. and changes by the day around this subject..

RW, quit trolling the tax threads, if you don't have a useful contribution to make, stay quiet.

[redwood1]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

RW, quit trolling the tax threads, if you don't have a useful contribution to make, stay quiet.

 

People really should take their own advice... 

[JimGant]

13 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You seem to have the main details already, only thing to note is that the gifted funds are still assessible on you, if tax assessable funds are used. In other words, you cannot use Gift Tax to avoid tax assessment on remitted funds, just by gifting them to another.

Agree one hundred percent. But, why the new conclusion -- this gift exemption from income taxes has been in limbo for ages...... Some new information -- or just enlightenment.?

 

Anyway, common sense (that annoying tie breaker term) says: No difference, if assessable income is sent to Thailand, and the receiver is: 1. My bank account. 2. My wife's bank account. 3. My GF's bank account.4. Real estate agency, for purchase of new condo. 5. Society for the saving of soi dogs. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it might be a gift -- but that's irrelevant to source of remittance -- and related tax bill.

 

This subject attracts a lot of energy. And the logical answer annoys a lot of folks looking for an angle. But, hey, go ahead and believe you see a grey area -- and file your tax return accordingly. Probably will get away with it -- and if you really see a grey area, you can sleep comfortably, believing you're not a tax evader -- should you have any morals regarding taxes.

[The Cyclist]

43 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You seem to have the main details already, only thing to note is that the gifted funds are still assessible on you, if tax assessable funds are used. In other words, you cannot use Gift Tax to avoid tax assessment on remitted funds, just by gifting them to another.

 

Not withstanding that the ' Gift ' has to be for very specific reasons. 3 or 4 I recall.

 

Not just willy-nilly 

[chiang mai]

17 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Agree one hundred percent. But, why the new conclusion -- this gift exemption from income taxes has been in limbo for ages...... Some new information -- or just enlightenment.?

 

Anyway, common sense (that annoying tie breaker term) says: No difference, if assessable income is sent to Thailand, and the receiver is: 1. My bank account. 2. My wife's bank account. 3. My GF's bank account.4. Real estate agency, for purchase of new condo. 5. Society for the saving of soi dogs. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it might be a gift -- but that's irrelevant to source of remittance -- and related tax bill.

 

This subject attracts a lot of energy. And the logical answer annoys a lot of folks looking for an angle. But, hey, go ahead and believe you see a grey area -- and file your tax return accordingly. Probably will get away with it -- and if you really see a grey area, you can sleep comfortably, believing you're not a tax evader -- should you have any morals regarding taxes.

I personally have always understood it to be that way. Subsequent to the earlier debates, many more people appear to have agreed with that view. A main driver is that there is nothing in the TEDA instructions or the Code, that allows for an exemption on income that is subsequently gifted, only a reduced rate of tax to the Giftee, above certain limits.

[chiang mai]

49 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

People really should take their own advice... 

I tried to ask nicely.

[anrcaccount]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

Not going through all these posts looking for it.

 

Has anyone considered transferring gift(s) to your wife or girlfriend?

 

Up ro 20 million in a tax year is tax exempt for relatives and up to 10 million a year again is tax exempt for non-relatives on the understanding that you do not gain any benefit and it is solely not for living expenses.

 

This would work in my case as my girlfriend has a job and she has told me on several occasions not to give her any money, but I do anyway (her savings account is very healthy).

Apologies if already discussed previously.

 

Try this thread, it has recent discussion on gifting:

 

 

[anrcaccount]

On 11/24/2024 at 2:10 PM, The Cyclist said:

 

You should have read the whole form

 

https://www.kasikornbank.com/th/Download/Level4_doc/FATCA-CRS-FORM_INDIVIDUAL.pdf

 

The bottom of part 2 

 

Fill in the " Amount of Income exempted to taxation / Types of income exempted from taxation / Under issuing TIN "

 

So in my case. XX Baht / Government Pension / NI number.

 

Which will tie in with my P60's, which is my papertrail.

 

And I am not convinced that * Mandatory if you have taxable income is correct.

 

I think that should read * Mandatory if you have assessable income ( Which to be pedantic, could be called taxable income, before Deductions and allowances are made )

 

IMO, and additionally based on the other member reports coming in,  you're incorrect on this. Posting this kind of thing creates unnecessary concern, even to say 'scaremongering' would be fair in this case.

 

As I said, it bears repeating: 

 

This part of the form is required to be completed for those who don't have a Thai TIN, and are not currently a resident of a foreign jurisdiction for tax purposes. 

 

Here is what the form states:

 

Please explain in the following section why you are unable to obtain a TIN if you selected Reason (B) above or if you don’t have TINs in any countries as per Question 1 of Part 2 above. Mandatory for non-Thai citizens who have taxable income in Thailand and do not provide the Thai-TIN.

For example: Amount of income exempted to taxation/ Types of income exempted to taxation / Under issuing TIN
For example: Forget TIN X

 

It asks for a reason that you haven't provided a Thai TIN. Then it gives examples of valid reasons , and one invalid reason ( forget TIN)

 

It's not asking for you to list your income, the category of that income that makes it exempt from Thai taxation, and a foreign tax ID.  'Under issuing TIN' - IMO means a TIN is in the process of being issues, which is a reason for not being able to supply one. 

 

If you are a current foreign resident with an Tax ID, you would have listed that Tax ID in the part of the form above ( Part 2, 1.) , and you wouldn't be completing this part of the form. 
 

[Felton Jarvis]

Farangs giving tax advice is strictly illegal.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

If you are a current foreign resident with an Tax ID, you would have listed that Tax ID in the part of the form above ( Part 2, 1.) , and you wouldn't be completing this part of the form. 

Actually, the only place I can see, where they ask you to enter your Thai TIN, is the first paragraph on page one, right under where they ask for your passport number. Here they say: Thai TIN mandatory, if you have Thai taxable income (and thus must file a Thai tax return). For me, having Thai taxable income would be if my assessable income exceeded my TEDA of 560k baht. Since my assessable income is well below this number, I don't have a need to file, and thus no TIN (even tho' the shyster accounting firms say I need one, 'cause my assessable income exceeds 60k).

 

Anyway, I'd explain this lack of TIN in the comment section on page 2. As a Yank, this form is for the purposes of satisfying FATCA reporting requirements -- and I would thus have to file a form W9 (included in the package). This form would have my Social Security number, which is all the US is interested in for identification -- not a Thai TIN.

[anrcaccount]

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

10 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

If you are a current foreign resident with an Tax ID, you would have listed that Tax ID in the part of the form above ( Part 2, 1.) , and you wouldn't be completing this part of the form. 

Actually, the only place I can see, where they ask you to enter your Thai TIN, is the first paragraph on page one, right under where they ask for your passport number.

 

 

 

Yes, if you have a Thai TIN, you enter it here: the first paragraph on page one, right under where they ask for your passport number.

 

If you have a foreign Tax ID ( I mean by this, a Non-Thai, Non US Tax ID for clarity) , AND you are a current tax resident of that foreign jurisdiction, you enter it under Part 2, Section 1, page 2. 

 

If you do that, you would not be then completing Part 2, Section 2 of the form (page 2 in the comment section as you describe it), which is where they ask for a reason you haven't provided a Tax ID number. 

 

6 hours ago, JimGant said:

Here they say: Thai TIN mandatory, if you have Thai taxable income (and thus must file a Thai tax return). For me, having Thai taxable income would be if my assessable income exceeded my TEDA of 560k baht. Since my assessable income is well below this number, I don't have a need to file, and thus no TIN (even tho' the shyster accounting firms say I need one, 'cause my assessable income exceeds 60k).

 

Anyway, I'd explain this lack of TIN in the comment section on page 2. As a Yank, this form is for the purposes of satisfying FATCA reporting requirements -- and I would thus have to file a form W9 (included in the package). This form would have my Social Security number, which is all the US is interested in for identification -- not a Thai TIN.

 

Agree. 

[chiang mai]

7 hours ago, JimGant said:

Actually, the only place I can see, where they ask you to enter your Thai TIN, is the first paragraph on page one, right under where they ask for your passport number. Here they say: Thai TIN mandatory, if you have Thai taxable income (and thus must file a Thai tax return). For me, having Thai taxable income would be if my assessable income exceeded my TEDA of 560k baht. Since my assessable income is well below this number, I don't have a need to file, and thus no TIN (even tho' the shyster accounting firms say I need one, 'cause my assessable income exceeds 60k).

 

Anyway, I'd explain this lack of TIN in the comment section on page 2. As a Yank, this form is for the purposes of satisfying FATCA reporting requirements -- and I would thus have to file a form W9 (included in the package). This form would have my Social Security number, which is all the US is interested in for identification -- not a Thai TIN.

The zero rated tax band is still a part of the Revenue tax tables. Even though there is no tax to pay, taxable income should be applied to the tables and is still considered to have been taxed, albeit at zero percent. It may sound semantic but there is a difference between not being taxed and being taxed at zero percent. I'm pretty certain the TRD wants us to go through the process and show our workings, that can only be achieved by filing the return and demonstrating that TEDA exceeds income and/or that income is only taxable as zero percent. If you don't do those things, everyone will end up not filing and claiming just what you have, ergo, no need to file. But TRD wants some kind of proof, ergo, show your calculations, show your working, I think you'll find that's what they are after.

[redwood1]

11 hours ago, Felton Jarvis said:

Farangs giving tax advice is strictly illegal.

 

I can see Thai jails full soon with all these tax advice giving farang...

[zombie nights]

I am considering going to the tax office in Pattaya to get a tax number/card. Year back I went to an office in Pattaya (Jomtien) with an interpreter Thai friend. I was given a tax card I assume this is out of date (issued around 2001 or around that date or a few years after) and I need a new one. It was used once or twice only to claim back tax on my deposit for immigration of 800k. i have not bothered to claim any more refund for years.

 

Can someone kindly advise me:

 

1 What is the address of the tax office in Pattaya and opening hours etc?

2 what documents do I need to show to register?

3 what questions will they likely ask me?

4 anything else I should know?

 

Thx for any help.

 

[Phulublub]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:27 AM, redwood1 said:

 

A bank becoming a tax office 100% WILL NOT WORK EVER...

Do you understand?

 

Its already failed before it started....So no one needs to do this...Not now not ever....

 

And when the bank closes your account...what will you do then?

[chiang mai]

On 11/25/2024 at 8:27 AM, redwood1 said:

 

A bank becoming a tax office 100% WILL NOT WORK EVER...

Do you understand?

 

Its already failed before it started....So no one needs to do this...Not now not ever....

 

Since you're so big on farangs not providing tax advice, advising members to break the law is also against the law plus it's against forum rules also, just so you're clear.

[cdnvic]

54 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

I can see Thai jails full soon with all these tax advice giving farang...

Discussing taxes online is not what that law is for. It's to prevent foreigners from setting up businesses with them operating as tax advisors.

[Celsius]

I will be paying tax exactly the same as I did in previous years. 

 

My wife can declare me her dependant, so she gets some refund.

 

I don't make money in Thailand.