UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[Baht Simpson]

14 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It has not been swept under the carpet, it has been discussed several times following petitions that, after a certain number of signatures, have to be brought up.  Being denied is not being swept under the carpet

Yes, it's been discussed then seen as not an issue any more for Labour and the Tories. The Lib Dems are still in favour of uprating and say so on their website, so they haven't swept it under the carpet. 

 

Once they get into power the issue is quietly dropped.

[Liverpool Lou]

21 minutes ago, animalmagic said:

The Government may make it clear, but that does not mean it is not fraud. 

Er, yes, it does...it is not fraud.

[Baht Simpson]

48 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

Blame it on the voters, they choose the left wing government of Labour. The socialists want your pensions to support the illegal migrants. Enjoy!

Oh do grow up. This isn't about immigrants. This has been an issue for the last 75 years.

[Tokyo Dodge]

6 hours ago, John Drake said:

Isn't the British government putting the squeeze on pensioners living in Britain by removing their heating subsidy? If they're willing to screw over the people living in the UK, imagine what they'll do to those living overseas.

The UK government would prefer all workers to die the day they retire so they don't need to pay any pensions period!

[Liverpool Lou]

4 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Yes, it's been discussed then seen as not an issue any more for Labour and the Tories. The Lib Dems are still in favour of uprating and say so on their website, so they haven't swept it under the carpet. 

 

Once they get into power the issue is quietly dropped.

Neither Labour, nor the Tories, have ever said that they would reinstate the increases so they have never quietly dropped it.  When were the Lib Dems ever in power?

[Baht Simpson]

40 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Not sure this will effect me too much. I am 60 now, and my plan is to be living in the UK again by 67 and come here for maybe 4-5 months a year after. The government should actually leave it alone and just increase the weekly amount for pensioners anyway - the pot of people they are looking for here is just not worth the effort and on top of that if they make it too hard to stay in Thailand by going after pensioners, then the amount of money the returning pensioners will be asking for rental help from the DWP will far exceed what they will get back in revenue collected in stopping increases !

 

Funny thing is though, that the UK government should do a deal with thailand to start retirement pensioner villages, as taking care of them here is probably far cheaper than in the uk.

 

 

Imagine all 500T + retirees who don't get uprated pensions going back to the U.K., getting the upratings, fuel allowance, housing and care benefits and access to free healthcare. I wonder what the cost would be. A damn sight more than uprating the pensions. 

 

Maybe we should all go back at once. 🙂

[sambum]

6 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

Oh do grow up. This isn't about immigrants. This has been an issue for the last 75 years.

 

Yes, and the money spent on immigrants, which increases every year, and is in the BILLIONS could quite easily pay for the cost of unfreezing pensions for expats who have at least made contributions into the system!

[sambum]

1 minute ago, Baht Simpson said:

Imagine all 500T + retirees who don't get uprated pensions going back to the U.K., getting the upratings, fuel allowance, housing and care benefits and access to free healthcare. I wonder what the cost would be. A damn sight more than uprating the pensions. 

 

Maybe we should all go back at once. 🙂

 

Couldn't agree more!

[sambum]

1 hour ago, transam said:

The pensions locked thing goes back to the 1950's, the only murmur on getting it changed, I believe was by Jeremy Corbyn........ ☺️

 

Various prospective MP's have stated pre election that they "will certainly look into it", but after the election - "swept under the carpet" - again! 

 

Extract from Labour Manifesto 2019 - Page 76:-

 

"Pensions People work hard for most of their lives and deserve a decent retirement free of f inancial stress and insecurity. ..............

 

"We will maintain the ‘triple lock’ and guarantee the Winter Fuel Payment, free TV licences and free bus passes  as universal benefits. ........

 

" We will ensure that the pensions of UK citizens living overseas rise in line with pensions in Britain."

 

OH, YEAH?

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by sambum

[Gcart]

3 hours ago, hardblogger said:

 If you get your OAP paid direct into Thai bank, it is then TAX free, it is not paid from UK,, it is paid from outscorcing company actually in USA. But if it paid into UK bank, then yes it will be subject to tax over 12570. But may or may not suit you to check that out. Mine goes in to my Thai bank every 4th Friday at 9.01am its very good. 

How is a UK pension not paid from the UK. Sounds like the Pensions dept are sending pension money to Thailand using an intermediary bank in which case your pension is still coming from the UK.

[kwilco]

Has anyone seen what the UK state pension is?? - Freezing nothing is hardly significant. It woulds be simpler to unfreeze them.

 THy are about half the French level and a third the German level - the EU was pressuring the UK to bring state pensions up to international levels before Brexit - 

[Simon1287]

7 hours ago, John Drake said:

Isn't the British government putting the squeeze on pensioners living in Britain by removing their heating subsidy? If they're willing to screw over the people living in the UK, imagine what they'll do to those living overseas.

Yet, I think I may have read somewhere that UK pensioners living in Spain etc still get it, due to some Brexit clause or other?

[Baht Simpson]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Neither Labour, nor the Tories, have ever said that they would reinstate the increases so they have never quietly dropped it.  When were the Lib Dems ever in power?

You misunderstand me. I never said they said they would reinstate increases.  I said that the now Chancellor Angela Rayner supported uprating pensions before but has not mentioned it since being in government. It's the issue that's been dropped not any proposed legislation.

 

 

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Gcart said:

How is a UK pension not paid from the UK. Sounds like the Pensions dept are sending pension money to Thailand using an intermediary bank in which case your pension is still coming from the UK.

It was UK Gov.--Citibank Ireland--Citibank BKK--Recipient's Local Thai bank........

Unless it has changed...

[Celsius]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There are no links from my UK bank account to any foreign activity.

I don't use Brit debit or credit cards outside the UK either. 

The government can look all they like, there's nothing for them to find.

 

Well, I just called you out to check if I was on ignore.

[roo860]

28 minutes ago, VBF said:

What happens if / when you apply for a new passport in Bangkok?

UK Gov databases are getting linked more and more.

Then don't apply for one here, go back to the UK for a few weeks, it's only once every 10yrs, I'm doing that next year.

[transam]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

There are no links from my UK bank account to any foreign activity.

I don't use Brit debit or credit cards outside the UK either. 

The government can look all they like, there's nothing for them to find.

But they do know where they send your pension too, have you filled out a winter payment allowance form yet, did they send one to your UK address....?

[Surasak]

3 hours ago, hardblogger said:

 If you get your OAP paid direct into Thai bank, it is then TAX free, it is not paid from UK,, it is paid from outscorcing company actually in USA. But if it paid into UK bank, then yes it will be subject to tax over 12570. But may or may not suit you to check that out. Mine goes in to my Thai bank every 4th Friday at 9.01am its very good. 

How is that a gain if pension is paid via USA? Surely the exchange rate would effect the amount you get? Or am I missing something?

[Tiger1980]

6 hours ago, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, all the Brits who moves to Thailand or lives here, knows the rules. Fair or unfair, has nothing to do with it. If they make a choice to move to Thailand, they will also make a choice to go by the rules. Break them, and sooner or later you will have to pay for it. Something that might be so hard that they can not stay in Thailand no more. 

 

Welcome to Thailand! Stop hiding and breaking the law. If you can´t afford it, Thailand is not for you. Then it´s better to chose a country where can get your full pension.

 
Meanwhile tens of thousands of ILLEGAL economic migrants are able to access benefits to the tune of £41,000 per ILLEGAL each year courtesy of the British taxpayers many of whom are affected by this policy of discriminating against pensioners who reside in certain countries.

[transam]

39 minutes ago, VBF said:

What happens if / when you apply for a new passport in Bangkok?

UK Gov databases are getting linked more and more.

If you do it in BKK they take from you copies of every page in your passport to SEND to the UK with your application form, if you do it in the UK they can see all the pages of retirement or marriage extension/visa pages, if they want to ask questions. 🤒

Really easy for them to ask questions when they are looking at that stuff, when you think about it..

[riclag]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

File photo courtesy: Salzburg global x-account

 

British pensioners living abroad, including in Thailand, will soon face enhanced scrutiny as UK banking confidentiality is set to change under new legislation targeting pension fraud.

 

The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, currently under review in the House of Lords, is expected to take effect in early 2025, writes  Barry Kenyon for Pattaya Mail.

 

Under the bill, British banks and building societies must share account details with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) where there are suspicions of fraud involving British citizens, both in the UK and overseas.

 

The bill addresses cases of a small minority of British expats allegedly concealing their residence in countries where they are not eligible for inflation-linked increases to their state pensions.

While some countries, such as those in the EU and the Philippines, qualify for these annual increases, others - including Thailand and Australia - do not.

 

Currently, around 500,000 British pensioners reside in countries with “frozen” pensions, and the DWP estimates that overpayments due to fraud exceed £100 million.

 

Common tactics include maintaining a UK address for official DWP communications while living abroad. For example, a British pensioner based in Thailand was discovered last year after a neighbour returned a DWP letter with the note, “Lucky Sod Lives in Pattaya.”

 

In another instance, a Bangkok-based pensioner’s deception was uncovered when his wife discovered he was enjoying himself in Bangkok rather than working in Baghdad, as he had claimed.

 

However, Thailand’s advocacy group for ending frozen UK pensions argues that the issue of fraud is minor. A representative claimed that the primary issues are DWP processing errors and the discriminatory policy denying pension increases to expats based on location.

 

Neither the previous Conservative nor the current Labour government has addressed these concerns.

 

Additionally, pensioners have voiced frustrations with the unreliable international postal system. The UK authorities require proof of life certificates every three years to continue payments, but these documents are sent via regular mail, often resulting in lost letters and payment suspensions.

 

Frank Weston, 68, a Pattaya-based pensioner, described the system as “insane and discriminatory” and advocated for a shift to a fully digital process, reported Pattaya Mail.

 

-- 2024-11-15

 

 

 

Just a thought!

If theres enough money to go around for funding other countries,why is it so difficult to fund

expats who decide to live elsewhere?

Foreigners opinion !

 

https://www.context.news/socioeconomic-inclusion/britains-foreign-aid-where-does-the-money-go

[riclag]

1 minute ago, Tiger1980 said:

 
Meanwhile tens of thousands of ILLEGAL economic migrants are able to access benefits to the tune of £41,000 per ILLEGAL each year courtesy of the British taxpayers many of whom are affected by this policy of discriminating against pensioners who reside in certain countries.

Brilliant 

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, Bannoi said:

Then forget to close your Phillipines bank account where your pension is paid into and to notify them that you moved back to Thailand. 

That might be a bit naughty though.

And pointless!

[sandyf]

50 minutes ago, Baht Simpson said:

This has been an issue for the last 75 years.

Obviously you believe historical precedence justifies discrimination.

RR wouldn't be allowed to  vote, far less have a job in government, if a long standing arrangement hadn't been overturned.

In the 2019 Labour party manifesto on page 76 they pledged to equalise overseas pensions. It would appear that the discrimination can only be seen by Labour when in opposition.

[CharlieKo]

I wonder how much money the boat people get when they arrive in Dover? I bet it far exceeds what pensioners get. Taking accommodation into account. How much is the government forking out for these illegal scum. I bet it's over £1000.00 per week. They are the real fraudsters, welcomed with open arms.

[transam]

Just now, CharlieKo said:

I wonder how much money the boat people get when they arrive in Dover? I bet it far exceeds what pensioners get. Taking accommodation into account. How much is the government forking out for these illegal scum. I bet it's over £1000.00 per week. They are the real fraudsters, welcomed with open arms.

Nothing to with state pension payments to recipients in country's not having a reciprocal agreement..

[kwilco]

40 minutes ago, Simon1287 said:

Yet, I think I may have read somewhere that UK pensioners living in Spain etc still get it, due to some Brexit clause or other?

EU countries, USA ad philipines aren't frozen plus some other places...

[kwilco]

5 minutes ago, CharlieKo said:

I wonder how much money the boat people get when they arrive in Dover? I bet it far exceeds what pensioners get. Taking accommodation into account. How much is the government forking out for these illegal scum. I bet it's over £1000.00 per week. They are the real fraudsters, welcomed with open arms.

What a facile and ignorant comment

[SHA 2 BKK]

5 hours ago, happyaussie said:

Your lucky. Australian pensioners cannot reside outside Australia and collect the pension. We are already one of the highest taxed countries in the world. The government wants it's pensioners to stay put so they can continue collecting tax. 

 

The hypocracy is that Australias $220k+ pa politicians receive a full pension after 5 years, can continue working in other fields and reside anywhere. 

 

it sucks.

That particular scheme ended over 20 years ago.   MPs are now paid the standard super from their employer (whichever parliament they are a member of - States included) along with their own contributions.   Like other workers depends on age when it’s withdrawn.   
 

It sucks to be wrong. 

[Surasak]

2 hours ago, transam said:

Did you know that if you live in the UK you are meant to tell them if you are in hospital there, I assume it may/could affect the allowance..........

Yes, a stay in hospital could affect the allowance. To my knowledge the payments are reduced after a two week stay, and the reduce per week. Not sure of the lowest amount they will continue payments.