UK Pensioners in Thailand Face New Scrutiny Over Pension Fraud

[transam]

14 hours ago, jori123 said:

It was,but there are influencers here that pick up on that.the only way to establish truth is by asking DWP directly (no answer) or A1,it's good.......chatgpt

. how many unfrozen ex pats have been sanctioned receiving unfrozen in frozen land blah blah ?.  None,  same with co pilot etc . people who state other wise are bitter and angry at losing a ton of money 

 

 

Really.............☺️

 

 

[petermik]

give it a rest trans....we all know your position....we have ours...nowt better to do these days

[roo860]

2 minutes ago, petermik said:

give it a rest trans....we all know your position....we have ours...nowt better to do these days

Well said mate, he's fast becoming the AN bore of the year candidate. 

[petermik]

9 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Well said mate, he's fast becoming the AN bore of the year candidate. 

Following last years award.....

[jori123]

12 hours ago, petermik said:

give it a rest trans....we all know your position....we have ours...nowt better to do these days

Too true,just another look another A1 tells u nobody has ever been punished for receiving unfrozen anywhere in the world,yet it knows of 2 plus at least another 3 at least.now someone is telling major porkies .and has been for last 10 years...... jealousy or wot?

[BlueScouse]

DWP Fraud, Error and Debt Bill. Statement from Liz Kendall on 8 October.

 

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-10-08/hcws114

 

The Eligibility Verification measure will not give DWP access to any bank accounts, nor any information on how claimants spend their money. The proposed new power instead helps verify benefit eligibility, using very limited information from banks and financial institutions. A human being will always be involved in any investigations and any decisions taken afterwards that affect eligibility or benefit awards, as they do now. This measure will not be used on the State Pension.

[transam]

11 hours ago, jori123 said:

Too true,just another look another A1 tells u nobody has ever been punished for receiving unfrozen anywhere in the world,yet it knows of 2 plus at least another 3 at least.now someone is telling major porkies .and has been for last 10 years...... jealousy or wot?

The only one telling porkies here is you, never a link to support your claims, why is that.....?

 

You also, after calling me a liar, never responded to a member of staff's post about a bloke he knows getting caught, why is that.....?   🤔

 

 

[Will B Good]

9 minutes ago, BlueScouse said:

DWP Fraud, Error and Debt Bill. Statement from Liz Kendall on 8 October.

 

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2024-10-08/hcws114

 

The Eligibility Verification measure will not give DWP access to any bank accounts, nor any information on how claimants spend their money. The proposed new power instead helps verify benefit eligibility, using very limited information from banks and financial institutions. A human being will always be involved in any investigations and any decisions taken afterwards that affect eligibility or benefit awards, as they do now. This measure will not be used on the State Pension.

 

 

Party on.....cheers.

[petermik]

Just now, transam said:

The only one telling porkies here is you, never a link to support your claims, why is that.....?

 

You also, after calling me a liar, never responded to a member of staff's post about a bloke he knows getting caught, why is that.....?   🤔

 

 

trans....sorry but your getting tiresome now.....let,s chat about Chinese MG cars instead 👍

[transam]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:42 AM, petermik said:

give it a rest trans....we all know your position....we have ours...nowt better to do these days

Tell me, is this a chat thread for all to comment on with what ever views they have on the subject...?

 

As far as I am concerned, what ever is said here makes absolutely no difference to anything, yes/no...?

 

What it has shown me, is blokes who are on the fiddle must attack, which is a bit odd as nothing on here will change anything......

 

What I don't like is folk making stories up, telling lies even and calling me a liar, which, I will NOT let go.

 

A bloke on here posts a lot with NO Gov. links, nothing, the same bloke that calls me and a member of staff, liars.....🤔

 

To remind you, nothing posted here changes anything, what ever you do is your business, and up to you......

[transam]

5 minutes ago, petermik said:

trans....sorry but your getting tiresome now.....let,s chat about Chinese MG cars instead 👍

No, I will get the same flack............😂

[petermik]

6 minutes ago, petermik said:

trans....sorry but your getting tiresome now.....let,s chat about Chinese MG cars instead 👍

 

Just now, transam said:

No, I will get the same flack............😂

Can`t think why.....

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, petermik said:

trans....sorry but your getting tiresome now.....let,s chat about Chinese MG cars instead 👍

 

 

I like my MG GS - have done for 5 years .

[petermik]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I like my MG GS - have done for 5 years .

same same MG 5 18 months old 👍

but before a certain person chimes in......they`re not really MG thas knows but Chinese Saic cars....😂

[transam]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

same same MG 5 18 months old 👍

but before a certain person chimes in......they`re not really MG thas knows but Chinese Saic cars....😂

Indeed, Chinese with MG bling..............

 

My chum has a 5 year old MG ZS with only 60kkm on the clock, he took it to MG to trade in, he was offered 180,000 for it, he walked.......😢

[petermik]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

Indeed, Chinese with MG bling..............

 

My chum has a 5 year old MG ZS with only 60kkm on the clock, he took it to MG to trade in, he was offered 180,000 for it, he walked.......😢

that`s 100k more than I would have offered........

 

p.s. sorry but I cannot send you a Christmas card this year as them buggers running our country have stopped my winter fuel allowance.....and I,m skint

[transam]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

that`s 100k more than I would have offered........

 

p.s. sorry but I cannot send you a Christmas card this year as them buggers running our country have stopped my winter fuel allowance.....and I,m skint

I never received your previous ones...........😢

[gk10012001]

On 12/4/2024 at 10:17 PM, petermik said:

Your speculation beggars belief.....there are millions in the UK claiming benefits in one form or another....so you seriously think they will target pensioners who have their pensions paid into a UK Bank as to are they actually resident or not

I never said they would target them.  I said they may have the ability to pursue all their financial transactions if they decided to.  Your speculation and assumption is ...

[rustyhinges]

I live in Thailand and worked here previously for 7 years and have a Thai spouse.

I began to receive my UK state pension in May 2023. Last May 2024 I did not receive the UK indexed linked increase to my monthly pension.

I discussed this with a former colleague / friend who lives in the Philippines with his Filipino spouse.

He told me that he does receive the annual increases to his UK state pension but was aware that UK citizens living in some other countries are not entitled to the same annual uplift.

I visited the UK.GOV DWP website to investigate this apparent anomaly. I was very surprised indeed to learn that is true.

This seems so unfair without ant reasonable basis!!!

Surely entitlement should be based on citizenship and contributions paid over the years of the working life and not on address of residence.

I think this case of unfairness should be put before the International Court of Human Rights if the House of Lords do not correct this blatantly wrong policy.

[transam]

11 hours ago, rustyhinges said:

I live in Thailand and worked here previously for 7 years and have a Thai spouse.

I began to receive my UK state pension in May 2023. Last May 2024 I did not receive the UK indexed linked increase to my monthly pension.

I discussed this with a former colleague / friend who lives in the Philippines with his Filipino spouse.

He told me that he does receive the annual increases to his UK state pension but was aware that UK citizens living in some other countries are not entitled to the same annual uplift.

I visited the UK.GOV DWP website to investigate this apparent anomaly. I was very surprised indeed to learn that is true.

This seems so unfair without ant reasonable basis!!!

Surely entitlement should be based on citizenship and contributions paid over the years of the working life and not on address of residence.

I think this case of unfairness should be put before the International Court of Human Rights if the House of Lords do not correct this blatantly wrong policy.

It did go to a court in the EU, forgot which, ....13 judges, 5 for, 8 against...........We lost..😢

[kimamey]

On 11/15/2024 at 3:16 AM, Gottfrid said:

Yeah, all the Brits who moves to Thailand or lives here, knows the rules. Fair or unfair, has nothing to do with it. If they make a choice to move to Thailand, they will also make a choice to go by the rules. Break them, and sooner or later you will have to pay for it. Something that might be so hard that they can not stay in Thailand no more. 

 

Welcome to Thailand! Stop hiding and breaking the law. If you can´t afford it, Thailand is not for you. Then it´s better to chose a country where can get your full pension.

 

I think the situation is a little more complicated than you suggest.

It’s not always the case that there’s an easy choice. A case I read about, an elderly man’s wife died, and his daughter, who was living in Australia with her Australian husband and young children, suggested he went to live there as he no longer had any friends in the UK and of course didn’t see his grandchildren as much as he’d like. I have a similar situation with my granddaughters. That’s not a simple choice to make and not something that can be planned for. I’ve heard of several similar cases as well. 

When I first came to Thailand in 2008 to meet the woman who is now my wife there were a lot of things to think about, but my pension wasn’t one of them as I didn’t know how things would work out. Call me an old romantic but I wasn’t going to bring up ridiculous UK pension regulations when deciding whether to live with and marry my then girlfriend. At the time we decided to live in Thailand due to me being 15 years older and my son and daughter being adults whilst her daughter was 13. There wasn’t a firm plan, although I did think I might have to return full time to the UK if my health took a turn for the worse. I’m 70 now but OK so far. I also had in my mind that I’d be spending more time in the UK by now but amongst other things my wife’s mother is getting older so that makes it more difficult. Plans don’t always work out as you intend.

As for knowing the rules, that’s not so simple either. If you pack up and move completely then yes it’s straightforward and also if you move back in the same way. If however you move between the UK and, in my case Thailand then it’s complicated as there aren’t any actual rules as such. I did have a letter from the DWP setting out their method of determining residency but I can’t find it now. They look at whether your flights are return tickets, do you have family, do you have somewhere to live and do you have a car? That’s all I can remember. All departments have their own. HMRC is pretty clear but others use ‘ordinarily resident’ or ‘habitually resident’. I did phone the International Pension Centre early on to ask where I could find the rules. I was told they would be on the .gov.uk website. I said I’d looked and couldn’t find them and was told “They’ll be on there somewhere”. I mentioned this when I wrote to my MP and he couldn’t help either. On various calls when I’ve asked what would constitute becoming resident again, I’ve been told. “Being in the UK for 6 months”. I don’t know if that’s got to be continuous or not. “It’s not really just how long you’re here as it’s based on other things as well that help us decide if you’re resident or not”. On my last call when I pointed out that between early April 2024 and early March 2025 I would have been in the UK for 186 days, so more than 6 months, the woman said “Oh yes that would mean you are resident”. So I’m now resident, at least for now.

It’s not as simple as it sounds is it.

[kimamey]

On 12/17/2024 at 3:38 AM, transam said:

It did go to a court in the EU, forgot which, ....13 judges, 5 for, 8 against...........We lost..😢

 

Yes it did go to the European Court of Human Rights in 2010.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8568970.stm

 

I disagree with this part.

 

"As non-residents, the applicants did not contribute to the UK economy, in particular, they paid no UK tax to offset the cost of any increase in the pension," a statement from the court said.

 

That's not true. I pay UK tax on my state pension, 2 private pensions, rental income on a flat and VAT on all the payments to the letting agent and for maintenance and insurance. I could have my state pension paid in Thailand  but I'm not sure about my private ones. The rent might be able to be paid here, but I'm not sure. All he rest is stuck in the UK.

[kimamey]

On 12/9/2024 at 1:57 AM, gk10012001 said:

I never said they would target them.  I said they may have the ability to pursue all their financial transactions if they decided to.  Your speculation and assumption is ...

The difficulty is finding those who might be getting the increase when they aren't entitled to under the current rules. If they have a way to find people who are possibly infringing the rules then it becomes much easier. It's not difficult to investigate someone to find out where they are living. Their passport information should do that. I'm surprised they aren't using that already although that might only go back so far.

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, kimamey said:

The difficulty is finding those who might be getting the increase when they aren't entitled to under the current rules. If they have a way to find people who are possibly infringing the rules then it becomes much easier. It's not difficult to investigate someone to find out where they are living. Their passport information should do that. I'm surprised they aren't using that already although that might only go back so far.

I just tell everyone I don't have a passport.

It's not as if it's a requirement to have one inside the UK.

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, kimamey said:

 

I think the situation is a little more complicated than you suggest.

It’s not always the case that there’s an easy choice. A case I read about, an elderly man’s wife died, and his daughter, who was living in Australia with her Australian husband and young children, suggested he went to live there as he no longer had any friends in the UK and of course didn’t see his grandchildren as much as he’d like. I have a similar situation with my granddaughters. That’s not a simple choice to make and not something that can be planned for. I’ve heard of several similar cases as well. 

When I first came to Thailand in 2008 to meet the woman who is now my wife there were a lot of things to think about, but my pension wasn’t one of them as I didn’t know how things would work out. Call me an old romantic but I wasn’t going to bring up ridiculous UK pension regulations when deciding whether to live with and marry my then girlfriend. At the time we decided to live in Thailand due to me being 15 years older and my son and daughter being adults whilst her daughter was 13. There wasn’t a firm plan, although I did think I might have to return full time to the UK if my health took a turn for the worse. I’m 70 now but OK so far. I also had in my mind that I’d be spending more time in the UK by now but amongst other things my wife’s mother is getting older so that makes it more difficult. Plans don’t always work out as you intend.

As for knowing the rules, that’s not so simple either. If you pack up and move completely then yes it’s straightforward and also if you move back in the same way. If however you move between the UK and, in my case Thailand then it’s complicated as there aren’t any actual rules as such. I did have a letter from the DWP setting out their method of determining residency but I can’t find it now. They look at whether your flights are return tickets, do you have family, do you have somewhere to live and do you have a car? That’s all I can remember. All departments have their own. HMRC is pretty clear but others use ‘ordinarily resident’ or ‘habitually resident’. I did phone the International Pension Centre early on to ask where I could find the rules. I was told they would be on the .gov.uk website. I said I’d looked and couldn’t find them and was told “They’ll be on there somewhere”. I mentioned this when I wrote to my MP and he couldn’t help either. On various calls when I’ve asked what would constitute becoming resident again, I’ve been told. “Being in the UK for 6 months”. I don’t know if that’s got to be continuous or not. “It’s not really just how long you’re here as it’s based on other things as well that help us decide if you’re resident or not”. On my last call when I pointed out that between early April 2024 and early March 2025 I would have been in the UK for 186 days, so more than 6 months, the woman said “Oh yes that would mean you are resident”. So I’m now resident, at least for now.

It’s not as simple as it sounds is it.

 

  Have you considered purchasing a computer with a "return" button so you can create paragraphs?

[kimamey]

14 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Have you considered purchasing a computer with a "return" button so you can create paragraphs?

Sorry about that.  I wrote it on Libre Office as I didn't have time to do it all at once. The formatting probably got lost in transfer and I didn't check. 

[Neeranam]

Does anyone know if a Dual  national -  Thai/British would have a case to say that he not living abroad?

[gk10012001]

On 12/16/2024 at 10:16 AM, rustyhinges said:

I live in Thailand and worked here previously for 7 years and have a Thai spouse.

I began to receive my UK state pension in May 2023. Last May 2024 I did not receive the UK indexed linked increase to my monthly pension.

I discussed this with a former colleague / friend who lives in the Philippines with his Filipino spouse.

He told me that he does receive the annual increases to his UK state pension but was aware that UK citizens living in some other countries are not entitled to the same annual uplift.

I visited the UK.GOV DWP website to investigate this apparent anomaly. I was very surprised indeed to learn that is true.

This seems so unfair without ant reasonable basis!!!

Surely entitlement should be based on citizenship and contributions paid over the years of the working life and not on address of residence.

I think this case of unfairness should be put before the International Court of Human Rights if the House of Lords do not correct this blatantly wrong policy.

Why some countries and not others?  Especially why the difference between the Philippines and Thailand?  What did the UK legal beagles list as the discriminating factors to allow one to give increases but not the other?

[Denim]

IMO , there is still a lack of clarity about a certain DWP requirements.

 

Suppose youlive in the UK and maintain a UK address.  However , you decide to take a late Gap year out to go traveling with a view to finding an overseas place to retire to. During your travels the annual pension rise occurs but as you have been traveling for 7 months you are not entiotled to it. In addition, when you left you were told you have to report any change of address you make. So, are you supposed to telephone the DWP every time you check in to a new hotel in a new country ??? When you return to the UK does your pension go up to what it would have been before you left ?

 

The whole thing sounds like a badly thought out can of worms . 

 

The UK government should be glad retirees choose to live overseas in a cheaper country. If they were all obliged to return to the UK because without annual pension rises they can't survive , they would then not only get the full pension on their return but many would get other benefits to boot , disability benefit , housing benefit , attendance allowance etc

 

 

[transam]

3 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

Why some countries and not others?  Especially why the difference between the Philippines and Thailand?  What did the UK legal beagles list as the discriminating factors to allow one to give increases but not the other?

A joint social security agreement, they call it a reciprocal agreement, the UK doesn't have one with Australia or Canada either, even with our strong ties...😥