Official: Trump Nominates RFK Jr. for Health Secretary

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

 

Before we get into the facts, let's address the primary issue here which I suggest is with your logical reasoning, which centers around 'Argument from Ignorance':
 

Argument from Ignorance:
Your claim that "no animals were found with the virus" as evidence against zoonosis assumes that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence. This overlooks the complexities of incomplete testing and delayed investigations. Given the vast range of testing gaps and the market's early sanitation, it’s unreasonable to dismiss zoonosis based solely on the failure to find infected animals in one location.

Now let’s examine the other logical flaws in your argument:
 

1. Strawman Fallacy:
You misrepresent the zoonotic spillover theory by suggesting it only relies on finding infected animals in the market. Zoonosis is supported by broader evidence, like the virus’s genetic relationship to bat coronaviruses and environmental traces in the market, not just direct animal tests.

2. False Dichotomy:
You suggest that the lack of infected animals in the market rules out zoonosis, but this ignores other plausible scenarios, like infected animals being removed before testing or spillover occurring upstream in the wildlife trade.

3. Cherry-Picking:
You focus on the absence of positive animal tests while ignoring other supporting evidence, such as the virus’s genetic ties to bats and its receptor-binding adaptations that make it suited for human cells.

4. Overgeneralization:
You dismiss zoonosis based on a lack of direct evidence from one market, but spillover events are inherently complex. For example, it took years to identify intermediaries for SARS-CoV-1.

5. Begging the Question:
Your rhetorical question, “Why is that?” assumes the conclusion that zoonosis is unsupported without addressing potential gaps like incomplete sampling or market conditions.
 

Let’s address these logical flaws first, then we can delve into the facts later.

So there's no evidence of zoonotic transmission. 

FBI Director Wray acknowledges bureau assessment that Covid-19 likely resulted from lab incident

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html

US Energy Department assesses Covid-19 likely resulted from lab leak, furthering US intel divide over virus origin

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

Classified State Department Documents Credibly Suggest COVID-19 Lab Leak, Wenstrup Pushes for Declassification

https://oversight.house.gov/release/classified-state-department-documents-credibly-suggest-covid-19-lab-leak-wenstrup-pushes-for-declassification/

 

 

 

[candide]

1 hour ago, radiochaser said:

 

A major peer-reviewed study has uncovered an alarming surge in excess cardiac arrest deaths among those who received Covid mRNA “vaccines.”

The bombshell study analyzed the data of an almost universally vaccinated population to identify links between Covid injections and surges in cardiac arrests.

 

 

https://slaynews.com/news/study-2-million-covid-vaxxed-finds-1236-surge-cardiac-arrest-deaths/

Here's the full article you haven't read. 😃

https://www.opastpublishers.com/peer-review/excess-cardiopulmonary-arrest-and-mortality-after-covid19-vaccination-in-king-county-washington-8192.html

 

The conclusion of the article:

Conclusions: We identified a significant ecological and temporal association between excess fatal cardiopulmonary arrests and the COVID-19 vaccination campaign. The increase in excess cardiopulmonary arrest deaths may also be attributed to COVID-19 infection and disruptions in emergency care during the pandemic. Urgent further research is needed to confirm our observations with attention to risk mitigation for incident events and improved survival with resuscitation.

 

That's exactly the problem with this explorative study. It's based on macro-level correlation of already aggregated data (not data about individuals), and only considers the vaccination rate. It doesn't consider the effect of other factors known to increase deaths. In particular, it doesn't test weather the Covid pandemic was not better correlated to deaths.

There is also no comparison between death rates of non vaccinated vs vaccinated (because It's not a research on individuals, as noted before).

[LosLobo]

15 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

So there's no evidence of zoonotic transmission. 

FBI Director Wray acknowledges bureau assessment that Covid-19 likely resulted from lab incident

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html

US Energy Department assesses Covid-19 likely resulted from lab leak, furthering US intel divide over virus origin

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

Classified State Department Documents Credibly Suggest COVID-19 Lab Leak, Wenstrup Pushes for Declassification

https://oversight.house.gov/release/classified-state-department-documents-credibly-suggest-covid-19-lab-leak-wenstrup-pushes-for-declassification/

 

 

 

The claim that there's no evidence of zoonotic transmission doesn't inherently prove a lab origin—it only highlights gaps in the current understanding. This is a textbook example of an argument from ignorance: assuming one explanation must be true simply because another isn't definitively proven.
 

Now, regarding your sources:

1. FBI Director Wray's statement: The FBI has assessed with "moderate confidence" that COVID-19 likely originated from a lab incident. However, "moderate confidence" indicates incomplete evidence—not certainty—and this assessment is not universally shared across U.S. intelligence agencies.

2. US Energy Department's assessment: They also stated this with "low confidence," meaning the conclusion is tenuous and relies on limited or unreliable data. Furthermore, other agencies, including the National Intelligence Council and several scientists, still favor a natural origin.

3. Oversight House report: Congressional documents suggesting a lab leak are based on classified information yet to be independently verified. It's worth noting that Wenstrup and others have a political stake in this debate, which calls for scrutiny of their claims.

If we're talking about actual evidence, the closest we have is environmental samples from the Huanan Seafood Market in Wuhan, which support the possibility of zoonotic spillover. This isn't conclusive, but it aligns with known patterns of virus transmission in wildlife-to-human interfaces.
 

In summary, appealing to fragmented or politically motivated sources doesn't solidify the lab-leak theory—it just underscores the importance of rigorous investigation over speculation.

[candide]

3 hours ago, johng said:

Sweden ?.....from or with ?

America is very obese

and addicted to prescription medicine...that is something RFKjr

will hopefully try to address  MAHA.

 

Can we now ask what happened to the "good old flu" during the Covidiocy ? or is that still taboo ?

 

And yep you just confirmed that you are indeed an authoritarian

"in disguise"

sorry that my ignorance hurts your eyes...  luckily there is no mandatory authoritarian dictate that you have to read my postings to keep your job ehh !

 

As for "logic"

 I am the operator of my pocket calculator.

Each and every health organisation has warned about the danger of bad food and promoted eating healthy food. There's nothing revolutionary about it. Only moron politicians would de facto promote eating big Macs! 😃

 

To be honest, there may be a benefit from the fact that it comes from a MAGA government. Obesity and eating junk food are frequent in the MAGA population, so it may have an impact on them. The message may not be rejected as the woke deepstate trying to prevent them from eating their  greasy Patriotic hamburgers and pizzas 😃

[dinsdale]

24 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

it just underscores the importance of rigorous investigation over speculation.

Why has China blocked such rigorous investigation then and why was research/data scrubbed? Viral data base scrubbed. Why? If there's nothing to hide then there's nothing to hide. I hope very, very much more information comes to light and Trump will be the one to get it done. The only investigation was one trip by the WHO with Peter Daszak on the team. This was a 100% conflict of interest. Why don't you watch the video from Sky. Maybe it will make you think outside of the viewpoint pushed by Fauci and the legacy media.

 

Edited November 17 by dinsdale

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Why has China blocked such rigorous investigation then and why was research/data scrubbed? If there's nothing to hide then there's nothing to hide. I hope very, very much more information comes to light and Trump will be the one to get it done. The only investigation was one trip by the WHO with Peter Daszak on the team. This was a 100% conflict of interest. Why don't you watch the video from Sky. Maybe it will make you think outside of the viewpoint pushed by Fauci and the legacy media.

 

Dictatorships by their very nature are not open and transparent, secrecy is de rigeur. Xi is not the kind of leader one gives bad news to.

 

It's quite possible the Chinese don't know either, but are terrified of the ramifications arising from the truth being found, if that truth sees them  as a pariah, much as Russia is.

 

Trump is putting tariffs up to 60% on Chinese imports. " Get it done" under those circumstances has to be one of the most fatuous comments I have read on ASEAN for quite a while.

[dinsdale]

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Dictatorships by their very nature are not open and transparent, secrecy is de rigeur. Xi is not the kind of leader one gives bad news to.

 

It's quite possible the Chinese don't know either, but are terrified of the ramifications arising from the truth being found, if that truth sees them  as a pariah, much as Russia is.

 

Trump is putting tariffs up to 60% on Chinese imports. " Get it done" under those circumstances has to be one of the most fatuous comments I have read on ASEAN for quite a while.

What makes you think I'm talking about investigations happening in China? The gain of function research was initially funded by America was it not? Do you not think there are classified documents that might shine some light on things. As for the CCP not knowing, they're involved in the institute. Have no doubts they know exactly what happened. As I suggested why don't you broaden your knowledge and watch the video. Don't just rely on the one side of the story you have been told and take that as truth.. 

Edited November 17 by dinsdale

[Lacessit]

13 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

What makes you think I'm talking about investigations happening in China? The gain of function research was initially funded by America was it not? Do you not think there are classified documents that might shine some light on things. As for the CCP not knowing they're involved in the institute. Have no doubts they know exactly what happened. As I suggested why don't you broaden your knowledge and watch the video. Don't just rely on the one side of the story you have been told and take that as truth.. 

Do you really think the USA is so omniscient it can establish cause from across the Pacific Ocean?

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

Why has China blocked such rigorous investigation then and why was research/data scrubbed? If there's nothing to hide then there's nothing to hide. I hope very, very much more information comes to light and Trump will be the one to get it done. The only investigation was one trip by the WHO with Peter Daszak on the team. This was a 100% conflict of interest. Why don't you watch the video from Sky. Maybe it will make you think outside of the viewpoint pushed by Fauci and the legacy media.

China’s blocking of investigations and scrubbing of data has fueled suspicions about the origins of COVID-19, but the lab leak theory remains unproven. The WHO team’s investigation, with Peter Daszak involved, raised concerns about conflicts of interest.
 

Trump’s handling of the pandemic, including downplaying the virus and delaying action, resulted in over 1 million U.S. deaths and widespread confusion. His focus on political image over public health led to a fragmented response. The hope that Trump could fix the situation now seems doubtful, given his own role in the crisis.
 

Murdoch’s video offers no conclusive evidence on the virus’s origin, instead aiming to absolve Trump for his failed response while scapegoating Fauci and China.
 

Videos and alternative viewpoints are valuable, but they must be weighed against broader expert analysis to uncover the whole truth, especially when political agendas obscure key facts. I suggest viewing all media information with a critical eye and learning how to directly analyze the information and data from studies and reports to form a more accurate understanding.

[LosLobo]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You are proceeding on the assumption the virus was circulating in the meat market permanently, when it may have been a transient.

 

What time elapsed between the appearance of COVID in humans, and testing of animals?

 

Where was Patient Zero working?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/18/health/covid-wuhan-market-lab-leak.html

 

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Subscription lock resolved.

First Known Covid Case Was Vendor at Wuhan Market, Scientist Says - The New York Times

[blaze master]

6 hours ago, Tug said:

Rubbish vaccines have saved millions and millions of lives to put an anti vaxer anywhere near even within spitting distance of competent scientists that deal in facts is a disservice nay a betrayal of my people fear mongering indeed we Americans at best are facing a rough 4 years it will have worldwide consequences…..

 

Who is my people and we Americans? You mean the ones who got it wrong. 

 

And why are you not commenting first on every Trump thread anymore. 

 

We the people kind of thing or ?

[stevenl]

"furthering US intel divide over virus origin"

But our resident anonymous member has it solved.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, LosLobo said:

Videos and alternative viewpoints are valuable, but they must be weighed against broader expert analysis to uncover the whole truth, especially when political agendas obscure key facts. I suggest viewing all media information with a critical eye and learning how to directly analyze the information and data from studies and reports to form a more accurate understanding.

You make some good points and if you really believe that the GOP supporters and followers are going to "analyze the information and data from studies and reports to form a more accurate understanding" then you have more faith in them than I do, and discussing anything like this with them brings to mind the old saying about, "playing chess with a pigeon".

It also brings to mind an interchange I had with a trumpie based in Bangkok when he was suggesting that the "lefties" were telling lies about trump and when I pointed out to him that much of what has been said is true, including the fact that trump pleaded guilty to stealing/misappropriating $2.1 million from one of his charities to fund his business and campaign expenses, the guy said it wasn't true – – can you believe it. Enough said.

[pattayasan]

On 11/15/2024 at 8:59 AM, dinsdale said:

Did I say it was deliberately released? Not manufactured? So no gain of function research. It was Obama that stopped this in the US and that's why it went to Wuhan and Fauci was complicit in this. To say you don't know where it came from and saying it's zoonotic in nature ("not manufactured") is to ignore all evidences that says it came from a lab where gain of function research was taking place. As I posted it's no longer a conspiracy theory. It's widely accepted as MOST likely. Of course all actual evidence was destroyed by the CCP (why would they do that?) and there has been ZERO evidence of the wet market origin.

 

Scientists have said it's highly unlikely that the virus was man made. That's good enough for me until proven otherwise.

[dinsdale]

13 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Scientists have said it's highly unlikely that the virus was man made. That's good enough for me until proven otherwise.

Indeed. Critical thinking ain't your thing is it.

[pattayasan]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Indeed. Critical thinking ain't your thing is it.

 

Arte you implying I have researched nothing? A part of critical thinking is realizing that when 99% of scientists say one thing the 1% are probably wrong. Society works on this kind of thinking and descends into anarchy when that breaks down. I might have the numbers slightly wrong but not enough to disprove my point..

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, pattayasan said:

 

Arte you implying I have researched nothing? A part of critical thinking is realizing that when 99% of scientists say one thing the 1% are probably wrong. Society works on this kind of thinking and descends into anarchy when that breaks down. I might have the numbers slightly wrong but not enough to disprove my point..

99%. LOL.

[pattayasan]

Just now, dinsdale said:

99%. LOL.

 

I thought you'd quibble about that and swerve the actual elephant in the room.

[dinsdale]

Just now, pattayasan said:

 

I thought you'd quibble about that and swerve the actual elephant in the room.

One quibbles when something is trivial. You really should know what words mean before you use them. This is an example of something that isn't trivial. Something that one doesn't quibble about.

 

[dinsdale]

 

[dinsdale]

Scientific evidence argues against zoonotic origin.

 

[LosLobo]

15 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Scientific evidence argues against zoonotic origin.

 

So, you're putting your faith in Drs. Muller and Quay—Congress's ‘star experts,’ one a physicist and the other a physician—neither of whom are virologists or epidemiologists, and who were clearly chosen by failed ophthalmologist Rand Paul due to their WSJ article on the virus’s origins.
 

Meanwhile, actual qualified scientists have systematically dismantled their claims in academically respected The Conversation: "COVID lab-leak theory: ‘rare’ genetic sequence doesn’t mean the virus was engineered".

"The authors fail to provide a reason why the double-CGG sequence couldn’t exist naturally… viruses evolve rapidly, and mutation accumulation is a common challenge in virology studies."
 

And here’s the kicker: "There is no evidence presented that scientifically supports the concept of a lab leak of a genetically engineered virus."

Translation? Muller and Quay are peddling speculative theories as facts.

Maybe it’s time to listen to real experts in viral origins instead of relying on a couple of generalists playing virology for a Congressional audience.

COVID lab-leak theory: ‘rare’ genetic sequence doesn’t mean the virus was engineered

[MicroB]

Make America Healthy Again didn't even make it to Inauguration day. The Mooch lasted longer.

 

 

 

[johng]

On 11/17/2024 at 2:40 PM, candide said:

see you are doing your 'own research'!

Yes remember kids that doing your own research is frowned upon  not only might you fall for disinformation but your IQ will diminish too !

[fondue zoo]

4 hours ago, MicroB said:

Make America Healthy Again didn't even make it to Inauguration day. The Mooch lasted longer.

 

 

 

 

 

None of them swallowed...

 

 

[illisdean]

On 11/15/2024 at 6:02 AM, pattayasan said:

anti-science nuttery is always a good thing

And there's this anti-science nuttery....

 

 

 

[johng]

On 11/15/2024 at 10:38 AM, ballpoint said:

A worm in every brain by 2026!

Try some ivermectin 🤭