K bank E-mail with Tax Forms attached ?

[Gobbler]

20 hours ago, KhunBENQ said:

Quote

       We, KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED, would like to express our sincere gratitude for entrusting us in providing you our products and/or services. As part of Thailand’s participation in the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA CRS), financial institutions are obligated to submit certain information to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, in accordance with the Emergency Decree on Exchange of Information for Compliance with International Agreements on Taxation, B.E. 2566 (2023) and related regulations (hereinafter collectively referred to as the “CRS”).
       The CRS aims to combat tax evasion by individuals residing outside Thailand and to ensure compliance with international taxation standards. In light of these requirements, we kindly request your cooperation in completing the following steps:
       1. complete and sign the attached forms, which include:
           1.1 FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification,
           1.2 IRS Form W-9 (if applicable), and
           1.3 IRS Form W-8BEN (if applicable);
       2. provide a certified true copy of your passport; and
       3. return the completed forms and document(s) abovementioned to us by email at [email protected] no later than December 20, 2024.

 

19 hours ago, CharlieH said:

 2. provide a certified true copy of your passport; and

 

 

Nonsense. Forget it.  They will do nothing.  I have 2 Kasikorn accounts. All banking is done by my son who is American, but his bank account at Kasikorn is not. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Al BB said:

So where can I find that ? ....All my Tax Code Notifications from HMRC only show my NI Number as a reference.

Sign in at https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/personal-account and you will see everything you could want.

[Lacessit]

I envisage a flood of expats inundating Kasikorn branches tomorrow, dealing with bewildered bank staff.

 

Deadline is December 20, plenty of time to see what shakes out.

[MangoKorat]

The inclusion of the term 'by individuals residing oustide Thailand' is the thing that worries me. I opened my Kasikorn account when I had a Non O based on marriage and have never actually resided in Thailand. Being divorced now I don't have such a visa.

 

As far as I know, to hold a Thai bank account, you have to actually live in the country (officially), although there are probably thousands of people who like me, don't.  I am pretty sure that the local bank staff know I don't reside in Thailand but I worry they may close my account if I actually put pen to paper on this.

[digital]

32 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

Question.

 

I live full time in Thailand, my address registered at the embassy, and have a TIN.

Of course I'm still a citizen of my country of birth, so should I declare that country as a tax residence?

 

It says "The CRS aims to combat tax evasion by individuals residing outside Thailand", if you are only a tax resident of Thailand I wouldn't have thought you need to mention any other country.

 

For the UK you can check your tax resident status here
 https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/guidance/check-your-UK-residence-status/start/choose-tax-year

 

A non resident may still have to do a UK tax return for some forms of income arising in the UK,, but still remain a UK non tax resident which is what I think they are asking. I doesn't ask where you pay or complete tax returns it asks where you are a tax resident.

[Gobbler]

24 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

The inclusion of the term 'by individuals residing oustide Thailand' is the thing that worries me. I opened my Kasikorn account when I had a Non O based on marriage and have never actually resided in Thailand. Being divorced now I don't have such a visa.

 

As far as I know, to hold a Thai bank account, you have to actually live in the country (officially), although there are probably thousands of people who like me, don't.  I am pretty sure that the local bank staff know I don't reside in Thailand but I worry they may close my account if I actually put pen to paper on this.

I don't think this is true. How would they know?

[chang50]

Well I just phoned kbanks call centre about this.As I suspected they did not have an email for me.

Their agent recommended I went to a KBANK branch soon as it is required for all to fill in these forms.I could not obtain a Thai TIN earlier the tax office told me to come back at the end of the year with a bank statement for 2024.So I plan to go tomorrow with my UK N I number and UTR.To the best of my knowledge I am tax resident in Thailand hopefully after explaining this they will give me something to allow the tax office to issue a TIN.

 

[chang50]

22 minutes ago, chang50 said:

Well I just phoned kbanks call centre about this.As I suspected they did not have an email for me.

Their agent recommended I went to a KBANK branch soon as it is required for all to fill in these forms.I could not obtain a Thai TIN earlier the tax office told me to come back at the end of the year with a bank statement for 2024.So I plan to go tomorrow with my UK N I number and UTR.To the best of my knowledge I am tax resident in Thailand hopefully after explaining this they will give me something to allow the tax office to issue a TIN.

 

Naturally I am expecting another fruitless frustrating day dealing with Thai bureaucracy but doing nothing might be worse.

[bubblegum]

I reside in Thailand, get my money from the Netherlands where they deduct my tax before paying me, we do not have TIN numbers and K bank can send me a reminder if need be.

[The Cyclist]

34 minutes ago, chang50 said:

.I could not obtain a Thai TIN earlier the tax office told me to come back at the end of the year with a bank statement for 2024.So I plan to go tomorrow with my UK N I number and UTR.To the best of my knowledge I am tax resident in Thailand hopefully after explaining this they will give me something to allow the tax office to issue a TIN.

 

Just a suggestion, rather than going RD tomorrow.

 

Wait until about the 5 December, go to your bank and get a 12 month printout.

 

Then take that to the RD Office, and show then the printout and request a TIN as you need to file a tax return next month.

 

Might be wasted journey without the 12 month printout.

[chang50]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Just a suggestion, rather than going RD tomorrow.

 

Wait until about the 5 December, go to your bank and get a 12 month printout.

 

Then take that to the RD Office, and show then the printout and request a TIN as you need to file a tax return next month.

 

Might be wasted journey without the 12 month printout.

Thanks for the advice not decided exactly what to do.

[CallumWK]

1 hour ago, digital said:

 

It says "The CRS aims to combat tax evasion by individuals residing outside Thailand", if you are only a tax resident of Thailand I wouldn't have thought you need to mention any other country.

 

For the UK you can check your tax resident status here
 https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/guidance/check-your-UK-residence-status/start/choose-tax-year

 

A non resident may still have to do a UK tax return for some forms of income arising in the UK,, but still remain a UK non tax resident which is what I think they are asking. I doesn't ask where you pay or complete tax returns it asks where you are a tax resident.

 

I have been free of doing tax returns in my country for almost 10 years, but since this year I receive a pension, though the total is below the threshold to get pay income tax

[Seppius]

I just replied to the email (you can) told them a brief account of my status and asked for more details as I am old and confused🤣

 

[hotandsticky]

58 minutes ago, bubblegum said:

 K bank can send me a reminder if need be.

 

 

...hopefully before Immigration start to ask for the evidence as part of your extension application.....

 

[chang50]

And boy isn't the FACTA form confusing!Where it asks if you are resident for tax purposes of another country presumably they want your home country where your pension is taxed even if you are tax resident in Thailand and haven't been given a TIN?

Edited 41 minutes ago by chang50

[MangoKorat]

2 hours ago, Gobbler said:

I don't think this is true. How would they know?

Not sure, I guess I should read the forms first and see what information they are asking for.  I no longer meet their criteria for opening an account - I wanted a second account which they refused as I no longer have a Non O or a Work Permit. I just don't want any problems with them as I have several regular payments to make.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, CallumWK said:

 

I have been free of doing tax returns in my country for almost 10 years, but since this year I receive a pension, though the total is below the threshold to get pay income tax

 

If they ask then just tell them your NI number, job done and forget about it.

[Caldera]

I haven't received the email yet. I've had an account with Kasikorn Bank since 15+ years. They might send them out in batches.

 

Extremely poor form, as others have said. Sending such an email during a weekend and expecting a return of sensitive documents by email. Mind-boggling. 

[hotandsticky]

25 minutes ago, chang50 said:

And boy isn't the FACTA form confusing!Where it asks if you are resident for tax purposes of another country presumably they want your home country where your pension is taxed even if you are tax resident in Thailand and haven't been given a TIN?

 

 

Just because you are taxed in the UK, on income derived from the UK, doesn't necessarily mean that you are a UK tax resident.

 

Whether you are resident in the UK for tax purposes is determined by the Statutory Residence Test (in force since April 2013).

At its most simple, if you spend 183 or more days in the UK during a tax year (6 April – 5 April) you will automatically be UK resident.  If you have not been in the UK for 183 days, you will still be UK resident for a tax year if:

You do not meet any of the automatic overseas tests;

You meet one of the automatic UK tests or you meet the sufficient ties test.

Automatic overseas tests

The three main automatic overseas tests are as follows:

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you were UK resident for one or more of the previous three tax years and you spend less than 16 days in the UK in the current year.

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you were UK resident for none of the previous three tax years and spend less than 46 days in the UK in the current year.

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you work full-time overseas in the tax year.

If any of the above tests are satisfied, you will not be UK resident for that tax year.  If they are not satisfied, the automatic UK tests and sufficient ties tests need to be considered.

Automatic UK tests

The three main automatic UK tests are as follows:

As noted, you will be UK resident if you spend 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year.

You will be UK resident if, for a prescribed part of the tax year, your only home is in the UK.

You will be UK resident if you work full time in the UK in the tax year.

If you meet none of the automatic overseas tests, and none of the automatic UK tests, then the sufficient ties test comes into play.

Sufficient ties test

There are five UK ties, these being as follows:

Family tie – your spouse, cohabitee or minor child is UK resident in the tax year.

Accommodation tie – you have a place to live in the UK available to you in the tax year.

Work tie – you work for more than three hours a day for 40 days or more in the tax year.

90 day tie – you have spent more than 90 days in the UK in at least one of the previous two tax years.

Country tie – you spend more days in the UK in a tax year than in any other country (but this only applies if you were UK resident in one of the previous three tax years).

The ties have many accompanying tests and rules that need to be worked through carefully according to your individual circumstances each year. The number of ties that you meet, will determine the number of days you can spend in the UK in a tax year on a tiered basis before you become a UK resident.

For the sufficient ties test, a distinction is drawn between “arrivers” (individuals who have not been UK resident in any of the previous three tax years) and “leavers” (who have been UK resident in one or more of the previous three tax years).

[chang50]

7 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Just because you are taxed in the UK, on income derived from the UK, doesn't necessarily mean that you are a UK tax resident.

 

Whether you are resident in the UK for tax purposes is determined by the Statutory Residence Test (in force since April 2013).

At its most simple, if you spend 183 or more days in the UK during a tax year (6 April – 5 April) you will automatically be UK resident.  If you have not been in the UK for 183 days, you will still be UK resident for a tax year if:

You do not meet any of the automatic overseas tests;

You meet one of the automatic UK tests or you meet the sufficient ties test.

Automatic overseas tests

The three main automatic overseas tests are as follows:

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you were UK resident for one or more of the previous three tax years and you spend less than 16 days in the UK in the current year.

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you were UK resident for none of the previous three tax years and spend less than 46 days in the UK in the current year.

You will be non-UK resident for the tax year if you work full-time overseas in the tax year.

If any of the above tests are satisfied, you will not be UK resident for that tax year.  If they are not satisfied, the automatic UK tests and sufficient ties tests need to be considered.

Automatic UK tests

The three main automatic UK tests are as follows:

As noted, you will be UK resident if you spend 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year.

You will be UK resident if, for a prescribed part of the tax year, your only home is in the UK.

You will be UK resident if you work full time in the UK in the tax year.

If you meet none of the automatic overseas tests, and none of the automatic UK tests, then the sufficient ties test comes into play.

Sufficient ties test

There are five UK ties, these being as follows:

Family tie – your spouse, cohabitee or minor child is UK resident in the tax year.

Accommodation tie – you have a place to live in the UK available to you in the tax year.

Work tie – you work for more than three hours a day for 40 days or more in the tax year.

90 day tie – you have spent more than 90 days in the UK in at least one of the previous two tax years.

Country tie – you spend more days in the UK in a tax year than in any other country (but this only applies if you were UK resident in one of the previous three tax years).

The ties have many accompanying tests and rules that need to be worked through carefully according to your individual circumstances each year. The number of ties that you meet, will determine the number of days you can spend in the UK in a tax year on a tiered basis before you become a UK resident.

For the sufficient ties test, a distinction is drawn between “arrivers” (individuals who have not been UK resident in any of the previous three tax years) and “leavers” (who have been UK resident in one or more of the previous three tax years).

I am non resident in the UK for tax then haven't been there for 8 years.

[hotandsticky]

2 minutes ago, chang50 said:

I am non resident in the UK for tax then haven't been there for 8 years.

 

 

You still pay tax on any income derived in the UK....ie... state pension, interset, dividends, investment income - rent etc.

 

 

I haven't lived in the UK for 18 years but I cannot claim non-residency because of directorships I hold.

 

 

It will be an interesting 'tug-of-love' if the Thai authorities want me to be a Thailand tax resdent on account of the 184+ days I spend here.

[Jingthing]

Thailand is becoming more and more annoying with this kind of stuff including of course the tax thingie. 

[chang50]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Thailand is becoming more and more annoying with this kind of stuff including of course the tax thingie. 

How long before lots of expats decide it's just not worth it any more?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, chang50 said:

How long before lots of expats decide it's just not worth it any more?

Not sure it's quite enough to push very many out but all this should give pause to potential new people. Also any place can change for the worse over time.