Plan B Countries - Any Advice or Ideas ?

[Gold2005]

Hi everyone. I wondered if anyone could give me any ideas or tips or any experiences where they've chosen a Plan B country and actually done it where they spend less than 180 days in Thailand. Any countries recommended from positive experiences etc. 

 

 I've lived here for over 20 years. I had a great time but it's not quite the same as it was then and just looking for friendly suggestions or experiences from other people that have been gone to another country outside of Thailand to spend a bit of time to and there's a good expat community and not expensive, could get visa to spend time there and so. Be interesting to hear other expats ideas. Thanks. 

[garygooner]

There have been other threads like this recently. Usual responses in this region are Cambodia, Vietnam & Philippines.  

[GammaGlobulin]

46 minutes ago, garygooner said:

There have been other threads like this recently. Usual responses in this region are Cambodia, Vietnam & Philippines.  

 

Maybe.

But, in these countries, medical dental care is not what it is in Thailand.

 

So, if on were to choose among countries with same or better medical and dental compared to Thailand...

Then which three alternate countries would people choose?

 

(No need to mention Malaya, because I have already considered Malaya.)

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by GammaGlobulin

[ukrules]

28 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Maybe.

But, in these countries, medical dental care is not what it is in Thailand.

 

So, if on were to choose among countries with same or better medical and dental compared to Thailand...

Then which three alternate countries would people choose?

 

(No need to mention Malaya, because I have already considered Malaya.)

 

 

When did you last visit these areas? How many decades ago?

[GammaGlobulin]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

When did you last visit these areas? How many decades ago?

 

Vietnam?

1971, as a tourist.

Cambodia?

Never, although I would like to go for a long holiday. Maybe even live there if the infrastructure and housing quality was same or better compared to Thailand, plus hospital and dental, etc.

But I would not consider Manila or thereabouts. I find Tagalog too irritating, and I do not like the constant typhoons and sinking ferries, etc.  Still, I might reconsider if the medical and dental quality was better than that of Thailand.

 

It does not matter how many repetitions of these same Topics, because I will still read them.

Mostly, I am concerned about

 

a. dental medical quality

b. housing quality

c. Zero noise.

d. Safety Security.

e. Transportation:  I do not need to operate a car, here in Thailand, and I still find it convenient because I have a driver who will drive me whenever I call.

f. In conclusion, I would be looking for a place as good as Thailand, only quieter, with more reliable electrical power delivery.

 

g. But, I will never leave Asia  (Thailand or East Asia), unless there is a better place than Thailand.

 

 

[Scouse123]

10 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Vietnam?

1971, as a tourist.

Cambodia?

Never, although I would like to go for a long holiday. Maybe even live there if the infrastructure and housing quality was same or better compared to Thailand, plus hospital and dental, etc.

But I would not consider Manila or thereabouts. I find Tagalog too irritating, and I do not like the constant typhoons and sinking ferries, etc.  Still, I might reconsider if the medical and dental quality was better than that of Thailand.

 

It does not matter how many repetitions of these same Topics, because I will still read them.

Mostly, I am concerned about

 

a. dental medical quality

b. housing quality

c. Zero noise.

d. Safety Security.

e. Transportation:  I do not need to operate a car, here in Thailand, and I still find it convenient because I have a driver who will drive me whenever I call.

f. In conclusion, I would be looking for a place as good as Thailand, only quieter, with more reliable electrical power delivery.

 

g. But, I will never leave Asia  (Thailand or East Asia), unless there is a better place than Thailand.

 

 

 

 

You are not going to find it.

 

1. Philippines-

 

It is expensive for poorer quality accommodation compared to Thailand in major cities such as Manila.

 

The food is known to be lousy, the electricity can be intermittent. They have the typhoon season etc depending on where you are located.

 

The crime rate can be very bad depending on location, abject poverty is commonplace, they have very poor infrastructure, and Tagalog gets on my nerves.

 

I can't cope with the God squad stuff.

 

2. Cambodia.

 

Food is not as good as Thailand but good restaurant options. Power cuts and outages regularly. Vegetables and fruit, they don't have the variety that Thailand has. Medical care, especially requiring hospitalisation is way below the standard of care in Thailand, hence a lot of Cambodians come here for medical care, those that can afford to.

 

Petty crime frequent, including house break-ins. Noisy, especially at festival times and weddings and funerals. Bad roads outside city limits.

 

3. Vietnam.

 

Many difficulties or, at least, jumping through hoops every couple of months to extend stay, they don't have Thailand's visa options, or long term strategies for expats.

 

Healthcare far better than Cambodia but not as good as Thailand, and language barrier can be a constant problem, especially if not in major tourist areas.

 

Cheating with prices on the street and petty crime is commonplace in Vietnam. I find Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh bad for taxi cheats and the language barrier, can be a drag.

 

I am often in Cambodia and Vietnam, and the above reasons are why I don't stay for longer periods there. Likewise, I like both Cambodians and the Vietnamese very much, although in very different ways.

 

Apart from that, I have a long term relationship with a Thai.

 

4. Malaysia.

 

I have been a number of times for holidays and, in the old days, visas. It's not where I would want to be other than a short break. I don't know enough about accommodation etc but I was aware they had a golden visa type option.

 

In Isaarn, we have good quality medical care at government hospitals and private hospitals.

 

An abundance of Thai fruits and vegetables, fairly stable electricity supplies, good Wi-Fi and internet as a rule.

 

I have a good private dentist. Eating out in local establishments is good food at cheap prices. I have a large house and family has two smaller ones, that's paid for.

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Scouse123

[BritManToo]

21 hours ago, Gold2005 said:

I've lived here for over 20 years. I had a great time but it's not quite the same as it was then and just looking for friendly suggestions or experiences from other people that have been gone to another country outside of Thailand to spend a bit of time to and there's a good expat community and not expensive, could get visa to spend time there and so. Be interesting to hear other expats ideas. Thanks. 

Vietnam (as a Brit) 45 days visa waiver on entry

Philippines 30 days visa waiver on entry

Malaysia 90 days visa waiver on entry

 

That's nearly 180 days with no immigration visits or VISA purchase!

Unlike @Scouse123 I don't eat local food, but there's plenty of foreign restaurants everywhere. The Philippines (Barretto) had a particularly wide choice of foods I like, German, Mexican, Australian and British. 

[Scouse123]

17 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Vietnam (as a Brit) 45 days visa waiver on entry

Philippines 30 days visa waiver on entry

Malaysia 90 days visa waiver on entry

 

That's nearly 180 days with no immigration visits or VISA purchase!

Unlike @Scouse123 I don't eat local food, but there's plenty of foreign restaurants everywhere. The Philippines (Barretto) had a particularly wide choice of foods I like, German, Mexican, Australian and British. 

 

 

Agree,

 

However, if somebody is going to these places to get out of paying any proposed Thai taxes or this 179 day limit, then how much is it going to cost them with the above itinerary for food, flights, accommodation, and spending.

 

You can then add back additional expenses for eating in foreign restaurants, which usually comes at a premium.

 

If, and this is purely a guess, the reason is to avoid being classed as a Thai tax resident, I BELIEVE IT WOULD BE MORE EXPENSIVE.

 

We still aren't clear on all this yet, the things I have mentioned above would equate to more than any amount of tax due.

 

 

 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Scouse123

[Hummin]

My village got 58 

27 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

You are not going to find it.

 

1. Philippines-

 

It is expensive for poorer quality accommodation compared to Thailand in major cities such as Manila.

 

The food is known to be lousy, the electricity can be intermittent. They have the typhoon season etc depending on where you are located.

 

The crime rate can be very bad depending on location, abject poverty is commonplace, they have very poor infrastructure, and Tagalog gets on my nerves.

 

I can't cope with the God squad stuff.

 

2. Cambodia.

 

Food is not as good as Thailand but good restaurant options. Power cuts and outages regularly. Vegetables and fruit, they don't have the variety that Thailand has. Medical care, especially requiring hospitalisation is way below the standard of care in Thailand, hence a lot of Cambodians come here for medical care, those that can afford to.

 

Petty crime frequent, including house break-ins. Noisy, especially at festival times and weddings and funerals. Bad roads outside city limits.

 

3. Vietnam.

 

Many difficulties or, at least, jumping through hoops every couple of months to extend stay, they don't have Thailand's visa options, or long term strategies for expats.

 

Healthcare far better than Cambodia but not as good as Thailand, and language barrier can be a constant problem, especially if not in major tourist areas.

 

Cheating with prices on the street and petty crime is commonplace in Vietnam. I find Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh bad for taxi cheats and the language barrier, can be a drag.

 

I am often in Cambodia and Vietnam, and the above reasons are why I don't stay for longer periods there. Likewise, I like both Cambodians and the Vietnamese very much, although in very different ways.

 

Apart from that, I have a long term relationship with a Thai.

 

4. Malaysia.

 

I have been a number of times for holidays and, in the old days, visas. It's not where I would want to be other than a short break. I don't know enough about accommodation etc but I was aware they had a golden visa type option.

 

In Isaarn, we have good quality medical care at government hospitals and private hospitals.

 

An abundance of Thai fruits and vegetables, fairly stable electricity supplies, good Wi-Fi and internet as a rule.

 

I have a good private dentist. Eating out in local establishments is good food at cheap prices. I have a large house and family has two smaller ones, that's paid for.

 

 

 

 

Whereabout in Isaan? Isann is a huge part of Thailand, and most of Isaan is just smaller villages with hour to nearest city. 

 

Today our pm2,5 is 58 already even before the burning season starts. In comparisson Koh Chang 28pm2,5,  Hua Hin 69pm2,5, Pattaya 54pm2,5, Krabi 50pm2,5, Khao Lak 44pm2,5, Chiang Mai 75,  Loei 71, Udon Thani 58

Edited 3 hours ago by Hummin

[BritManToo]

40 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

Agree,

 

However, if somebody is going to these places to get out of paying any proposed Thai taxes or this 179 day limit, then how much is it going to cost them with the above itinerary for food, flights, accommodation, and spending.

If you're just renting monthly in Thailand, not that much more, and if you're a big drinker probably less. I was living here on multi-entry Non O for about 8 years, and visited these countries every 3 months, single flights being 1K-3Kbht a time. So I guesstimate 20-30Kbht a year extra on my normal yearly living expenses (accomodation a little more, alcohol a lot less).

But if I were taxed in Thailand on my normal years spending, around 2,000bht pa on 600kbht brought to Thailand it wouldn't be a saving (tax allowances 60k me, 60k wife, 190k over 60, 150k pension, ?? child in education, 1.5%? of first 150k).

Edited 3 hours ago by BritManToo

[Scouse123]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

My village got 58 

Whereabout in Isaan? Isann is a huge part of Thailand, and most of Isaan is just smaller villages with hour to nearest city. 

 

Today our pm2,5 is 58 already even before the burning season starts. In comparisson Koh Chang 28pm2,5,  Hua Hin 69pm2,5, Pattaya 54pm2,5, Krabi 50pm2,5, Khao Lak 44pm2,5, Chiang Mai 75,  Loei 71, Udon Thani 58

 

 

Kalasin, but located on the edge, we are close to the Roi Et side.

 

When I first came here, it was as you describe, but now we have developed into a nice, friendly little town.

 

We have banks, markets, supermarket, and large stores, and now, bars and restaurants.

 

When I came here, there was zero.

 

Vast development taking place and linking up all the villages.

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Kalasin, but located on the edge, we are close to the Roi Et side.

 

When I first came here, it was as you describe, but now we have developed into a nice, friendly little town.

 

We have banks, markets, supermarket, and large stores, and now, bars and restaurants.

 

When I came here, there was zero.

 

Vast development taking place and linking up all the villages.

It is changing slowly here to, and from two atm to CJ and two 7/11 now, and the local Hospital is ok for minor incidents, but wouldt rely on them is I got seriously ill. For me the closest reliable hospital is Korat 3 hours away. I wouldnt trust Chaiyaphum or Petchabun or Loei. 

[Scouse123]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're just renting monthly in Thailand, not that much more, and if you're a big drinker probably less. I was living here on multi-entry Non O for about 8 years, and visited these countries every 3 months, single flights being 1K-3Kbht a time. So I guesstimate 20-30Kbht a year extra on my normal yearly living expenses (accomodation a little more, alcohol a lot less).

But if I were taxed in Thailand on my normal years spending, around 2,000bht pa on 600kbht brought to Thailand it wouldn't be a saving (tax allowances 60k me, 60k wife, 190k over 60, 150k pension, ?? child in education, 1.5% of first 150k).

 

 

As far as I am concerned, this new Thai tax rules are as clear as mud.

 

Yes, I have seen the allowances spouted by accountancy firms etc but no real announcements from the powers that be.

 

If they attempted to tax me on foreign income, I would, like many others, leave and adopt the 180-day rule until they saw sense.

 

However, whilst they are talking only about what comes into Thailand, I will now adjust my spending accordingly, the money that does come here is from my savings.

 

I am too young to retire or get old age pension from the UK. A UK pension wouldn't be taxable anyway, ASAIK.

 

Until I can clearly establish the new rules, I will use my ' Wise ' card and UK debit and credit cards as well as Cambodian cards to withdraw and pay cash for things as opposed to using Thai cards.

 

I shall, until we have clarity, minimise cash from the UK to a Thai bank to 150K a year.

 

I have no rents or credit here.

 

We just have food and utilities.

[Scouse123]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is changing slowly here to, and from two atm to CJ and two 7/11 now, and the local Hospital is ok for minor incidents, but wouldt rely on them is I got seriously ill. For me the closest reliable hospital is Korat 3 hours away. I wouldnt trust Chaiyaphum or Petchabun or Loei. 

 

We have a good local government hospital less than 1 mile (1.61 km) from my house.

 

For BIG stuff, I would go to Khonkaen, which is 2.5 hours away, they have major private and university hospitals, and we also have a private hospital in ROI ET, which is 1 hour away.

[Scouse123]

29 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're just renting monthly in Thailand, not that much more, and if you're a big drinker probably less. I was living here on multi-entry Non O for about 8 years, and visited these countries every 3 months, single flights being 1K-3Kbht a time. So I guesstimate 20-30Kbht a year extra on my normal yearly living expenses (accomodation a little more, alcohol a lot less).

But if I were taxed in Thailand on my normal years spending, around 2,000bht pa on 600kbht brought to Thailand it wouldn't be a saving (tax allowances 60k me, 60k wife, 190k over 60, 150k pension, ?? child in education, 1.5% of first 150k).

 

Well, I am not renting as mentioned.

 

I have adapted until I know what is going on.

 

I will now not bring into Thai banking system more than 150K per annum. They are not taxing on worldwide income, only what you bring in to Thailand, at the moment.

 

If that changes, I will adopt the 180 days outside the country method, and rent a place in Siem Reap, Cambodia, for the other days. Alternatively, I will spend 3 months in Cambodia and three in the UK.

 

Money I have brought into Thailand this last year is from savings. I am told this is not taxable.

 

I am too young to qualify for UK state pension, but AFAIK, that is not taxable as it is under the DTA., when it becomes due........ A few years yet!

 

I will now top up my WISE account and use that to withdraw Thai baht in cash. I will use foreign cards for cash and for supermarket bills etc.

 

Likewise, I just bought a new car recently, well, all that stops now.

 

Furthermore, I have had about 7 or 8 new cars in my time in Thailand. I won't be buying any more under current rules or transferring in any amounts of cash to their banks through my UK bank.

 

I will look at the DTV visa for five years, and then focus on taking out the 800K that has been parked here for however long, under the extensions based on Non - O.

[Mahseer]

Check if Cambodia & Vietnam are considering going the same tax route as here pretty sure they are. Philippines aren't at least for the time being. India allows 180 days a year for many nationalities and has so much to offer just need to ignore all the negativity and jump the occasional turd. 

[1happykamper]

1 hour ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

You are not going to find it.

 

1. Philippines-

 

It is expensive for poorer quality accommodation compared to Thailand in major cities such as Manila.

 

The food is known to be lousy, the electricity can be intermittent. They have the typhoon season etc depending on where you are located.

 

The crime rate can be very bad depending on location, abject poverty is commonplace, they have very poor infrastructure, and Tagalog gets on my nerves.

 

I can't cope with the God squad stuff.

 

2. Cambodia.

 

Food is not as good as Thailand but good restaurant options. Power cuts and outages regularly. Vegetables and fruit, they don't have the variety that Thailand has. Medical care, especially requiring hospitalisation is way below the standard of care in Thailand, hence a lot of Cambodians come here for medical care, those that can afford to.

 

Petty crime frequent, including house break-ins. Noisy, especially at festival times and weddings and funerals. Bad roads outside city limits.

 

3. Vietnam.

 

Many difficulties or, at least, jumping through hoops every couple of months to extend stay, they don't have Thailand's visa options, or long term strategies for expats.

 

Healthcare far better than Cambodia but not as good as Thailand, and language barrier can be a constant problem, especially if not in major tourist areas.

 

Cheating with prices on the street and petty crime is commonplace in Vietnam. I find Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh bad for taxi cheats and the language barrier, can be a drag.

 

I am often in Cambodia and Vietnam, and the above reasons are why I don't stay for longer periods there. Likewise, I like both Cambodians and the Vietnamese very much, although in very different ways.

 

Apart from that, I have a long term relationship with a Thai.

 

4. Malaysia.

 

I have been a number of times for holidays and, in the old days, visas. It's not where I would want to be other than a short break. I don't know enough about accommodation etc but I was aware they had a golden visa type option.

 

In Isaarn, we have good quality medical care at government hospitals and private hospitals.

 

An abundance of Thai fruits and vegetables, fairly stable electricity supplies, good Wi-Fi and internet as a rule.

 

I have a good private dentist. Eating out in local establishments is good food at cheap prices. I have a large house and family has two smaller ones, that's paid for.

 

 

 

 

Excellent summary and spot on remarks. 👍

[Scouse123]

13 minutes ago, Mahseer said:

Check if Cambodia & Vietnam are considering going the same tax route as here pretty sure they are. Philippines aren't at least for the time being. India allows 180 days a year for many nationalities and has so much to offer just need to ignore all the negativity and jump the occasional turd. 

 

I have seen nor heard nothing about Cambodia joining up to these 180 day tax resident stuff, I don't believe it.

 

You have links or proof?

 

In Vietnam, how can it happen when we are not allowed to live there, unless married or in business, under which different tax rules would apply.

 

Also, neither Vietnam nor Cambodia have signed up for the CRS. Vietnam is number 7 on the list of non signatories and Cambodia is number 20.

 

https://azolalegal.com/en/blog/yaki-krayiny-ne-vhodyat-do-standartu-crs-obminu/

[Mahseer]

6 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

I have seen nor heard nothing about Cambodia joining up to these 180 day tax resident stuff, I don't believe it.

 

You have links or proof?

Wouldn't call it proof but there's certainly indications such as:

 

Does Cambodia tax worldwide income?

 

An individual is deemed to be a Cambodian resident if he is domiciled in or has a principal place of abode in Cambodia or is present in Cambodia for more than 182 days during the calendar year. Cambodian residents are taxed on their worldwide salary income.

Vietnamese citizens and foreigners (non-Vietnamese citizens) who are deemed tax residents of Vietnam are subject to personal income tax on their worldwide income at the progressive tax rate from 5 percent to 35 percent. The official currency of Vietnam is the Vietnam Dong (VND).

[Woke to Sounds of Horking]

What about Sri Lanka?  I visited twice in 2014 and 2015 and loved it.  But that was 10 yrs ago and maybe it has changed...

[OneMoreFarang]

Just visit some other countries for a few days or weeks and look how you feel.

I.e. I visited a few neighboring countries. I kind of like it in Phnom Phen. Yangon was also not too bad a couple of years ago. I don't think I would like to live in Malaysia.

Just try! 

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Just visit some other countries for a few days or weeks and look how you feel.

 

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence...................until it isn't anymore

[Celsius]

I you are really scared of this non event, Just go back to your own country, establish the residency and reap the benefits you won't get anywhere else. Spend the rest in Thailand 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Malaysia 90 days visa waiver on entry

 

So then...

 

How long could one stay in Malaya each and every year, without paying much for a visa, if one were American?

 

For example,  if one wished to divide one's time between just two countries, Thailand and Malaya, what would be the best plan to divide one's time?  If one wanted to spend maximum time in one country...

 

9 months in Malaya and 3 months in Thailand, for example.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

You are not going to find it.

 

1. Philippines-

 

It is expensive for poorer quality accommodation compared to Thailand in major cities such as Manila.

 

The food is known to be lousy, the electricity can be intermittent. They have the typhoon season etc depending on where you are located.

 

The crime rate can be very bad depending on location, abject poverty is commonplace, they have very poor infrastructure, and Tagalog gets on my nerves.

 

I can't cope with the God squad stuff.

 

2. Cambodia.

 

Food is not as good as Thailand but good restaurant options. Power cuts and outages regularly. Vegetables and fruit, they don't have the variety that Thailand has. Medical care, especially requiring hospitalisation is way below the standard of care in Thailand, hence a lot of Cambodians come here for medical care, those that can afford to.

 

Petty crime frequent, including house break-ins. Noisy, especially at festival times and weddings and funerals. Bad roads outside city limits.

 

3. Vietnam.

 

Many difficulties or, at least, jumping through hoops every couple of months to extend stay, they don't have Thailand's visa options, or long term strategies for expats.

 

Healthcare far better than Cambodia but not as good as Thailand, and language barrier can be a constant problem, especially if not in major tourist areas.

 

Cheating with prices on the street and petty crime is commonplace in Vietnam. I find Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh bad for taxi cheats and the language barrier, can be a drag.

 

I am often in Cambodia and Vietnam, and the above reasons are why I don't stay for longer periods there. Likewise, I like both Cambodians and the Vietnamese very much, although in very different ways.

 

Apart from that, I have a long term relationship with a Thai.

 

4. Malaysia.

 

I have been a number of times for holidays and, in the old days, visas. It's not where I would want to be other than a short break. I don't know enough about accommodation etc but I was aware they had a golden visa type option.

 

In Isaarn, we have good quality medical care at government hospitals and private hospitals.

 

An abundance of Thai fruits and vegetables, fairly stable electricity supplies, good Wi-Fi and internet as a rule.

 

I have a good private dentist. Eating out in local establishments is good food at cheap prices. I have a large house and family has two smaller ones, that's paid for.

 

 

 

 

 

Very helpful comment, with good info.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

12 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence...................until it isn't anymore

Not really.

I think in some countries we feel soon comfortable, in others not so much.

If we feel comfortable, then we should obviously do some research before we possibly move there.

 

Many years I made holiday in Thailand, and I liked it, and I thought about moving to Thailand.

And then I checked about visa regulations, work opportunities and all that.

I find it strange when some people go to other countries to work there, but didn't even check how they can legally do that. Some with visa regulations for retirement, etc.