Help needed with one question about UK frozen state pension.

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Who mentioned lying ? , i said change your mind .

It may be that the fictional character in this scenario is unsure about whether he will stay in the U.K. or just see how it goes.

If you're unsure, you should tell DWP you're unsure, else that would be a lie.

[hotandsticky]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

So you are saying if you returned to the U.K. with the intention of staying then simply change your mind after 1 year your pension would be frozen at the rate you next left the U.K.?

 

So its all about declaring you are going to stay but then not staying and you will get the newer frozen rate ?

 

Anything to back this up ??

 

 

No......there is nothing to back it up.

[Chivas]

Well frankly that decision over uprated state pension awards will be shortly null and void anyway

 

As per the other thread over new Taxation issues Thailand has joined earlier this year the reporting group which reports back to your home countries tax office monies that sit in Thai accounts and usage of such

 

DWP will have little difficulty in assessing in short order who should be getting it and should not......

 

State Pension is not sanctionable though despite what people think or claim and its on the DWP website (I was also very surprised)

 

As its unlikely you're living overseas solely on state pension they'll still get their pound of flesh back though somehow but if you are they can do nothing about recovering back payments

[Chivas]

On 11/24/2024 at 11:43 PM, BritManToo said:

So don't tell them you've gone back to Thailand!

 

The naivety is beyond staggering it really is......IF and I repeat IF the DWP (or HMRC) etc wanted to know exactly where you are for whatver reason (the country) they can access in 30 seconds flat where your passport was last utilised from UK passport office all now interlined let alone from the airlines manifest also recorded

 

I find it incredible that anyone can be this naive on a repeated basis

 

You still got an abacus at home as well ??

Edited 7 hours ago by Chivas

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

The naivety is beyond staggering it really is......IF and I repeat IF the DWP (or HMRC) etc wanted to know exactly where you are for whatver reason (the country) they can access in 30 seconds flat where your passport was last utilised from UK passport office all now interlined let alone from the airlines manifest also recorded

I find it incredibly that anyone can be this naive on a repeated basis

You still got an abacus at home as well ??

Don't think they recorded such things before Brexit.

I used to walk on and off the ferry UK/France and didn't even take my passport out of my pocket, nobody seemed to care.

But you may be right, the UK authorities still think I'm in the UK, so maybe it's just a glitch with my data.

Edited 7 hours ago by BritManToo

[Keith5588]

3 hours ago, Goodison said:

@Keith5588 Where the YTer is wrong is he is telling people to reset their system reset permanently it is all about number of days in Country and that is wrong it is about getting the DWP to accept you are habitually resident. I already put the link to a thread on here where Mike Lister who went the IK and reset his pension put 2 comments and says he had to get his MP involved for the DWP to accept he was habitual resident in the UK and he got this after 4 months and the DWP letter explained it is based on them being satisfied you have settled back in the UK and made your habitual home not the number of days you are in Country. To add on to this I have put the link below for British Citizens Habitual Resident Test from the GOV UK site where the response to a question is from the DWP and who make it clear habitual resident is about them being satisfied the UK is your habitual home not the number of days you are in Country. You can make the Philippines your habitual gone but the DWP have to accept this for your pension to be permanently reset and just going there and spending 185 days there will get you the current rate for the duration of your visit but it will go back to the old frozen rate when you returned to Thailand unless you get the DWP to accept that the Philippines is now your habitual home.    
 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f9c70ed915d74e33f77c9/foi-3160-14.pdf

@Goodison Thank you for your comments and the link. I agree with all you write. I believe it is the same with having free routine NHS treatment, A&E is always free to everyone. I have heard people say that you need to be back in the UK for 6 months, one person said 2 years. I believe there is no time period, just that you need to be a permanent or habitual resident. After that it is within the law to change your mind. So similarities with this state pension situation. 

  @chiang mai in this thread I think did something similar to Mike Lister.

I now have no immediate family in the UK, next year after I sell my UK house and start my UK state pension I would have no reason or desire to visit the UK, apart from seeing a few good friends but that can be done via the internet. Saying that I can remember inflation being over 15% pa in the 1970's so if that happened again and state pensions increased a lot it would be nice to know that I could lock in the increase.

I would also like to be totally truthfull to the DWP (but I don't judge people who are not) and being able to lock in an increased rate with a bit of inconvienience would persuade me to do that.

I do suspect going to the UK compared to the Philippines would definitely make the habitual resident part a lot easier. Actually I'm not sure that you could ever convince the UK DWP that you are a permanent resident in the Philippines.

Sorry I keep using permanent and not habitual, actually I'm not sure if there is any difference.

I know in Thailand 99.9% of expats cannot say they are permanent, being able to stay here is not guaranteed in any way. I have a non immigrant O visa ....... I have not immigrated.

I will be in the UK March next year and plan to be there for 6 months so I have noted to do my best to find out as many facts concerning my post here as I can.

I like to watch some of the Youtuber videos, he has made some recent ones about assisted homes in Thailand compared to care homes in the UK, they were very good. So some things I agree with him others not. 

[Marvo]

As another example of UK Gov't practice, my (Thai) wife is currently on the five-year route to getting Indefinite Leave to Remain in the UK. For the entire 5 yr period we have to supply evidence supporting the case that she is living and "habitually resident" in the UK. They have long since removed any "183 days" or "more than 6 months in a calendar year" criteria and replaced it with the "habitually resident" requirement. They are asking for 6-12 joint/individually addressed utility/bank/gov't correspondences evenly spread over the 5 years. So, we can assume the DWP will be equally fastidious when ascertaining "habitual residency" for re-linking state pension entitlements.

[Keith5588]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

"Habitually resident" is to do with your future intentions, and not the number of days you spend in the UK.

If your thoughts are, "I'll spend a year in the UK, then I'll move back to Thailand", and you state that, then you would be habitually resident in Thailand, and when you returned to Thailand, your pension would be returned to the payment you received on your first stay in Thailand.

 

If on the other hand, if you returned to the UK with the intention of staying there forever, then simply change your mind later, your pension would be frozen at the rate you next left the UK.

 

Australia pensions work on the same theory, tell them you are going back for 2 years just to claim your OZ pension and you lose it when you leave. You have to intend to live the rest of your life in Australia to get it.

Thank you @BritManToo. I don't always say but I do agree with your comments. For me I now have no immediate family in the UK and after I sell my house next year I will have no address. I know a few friends would probably agree with me giving their address to the DWP but I like to think I am a good friend and would hate to potentially get them into trouble? Maybe I am overthinking? Not fully understanding? Very independant?

I am now having some Vodka & coke ....... I only drink alhohol about once a week ..... so now becoming affected ......... so sorry if I now ramble on.

March next year I will go to the UK. I have now been in Thailand for over 7 years and love life here. I have a lot of financial stuff to sort out in the UK and to sell my house. 

Sorry I have drunk too much to contine to write.

Thank you again @BritManToo 

 

[scottiejohn]

28 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

sell my house next year I will have no address. I know a few friends would probably agree with me giving their address to the DWP but I like to think I am a good friend and would hate to potentially get them into trouble?

Just sign up to a UK mail forwarding company a few months before you move and all will be well.  Do not wait until you have left!!!

Here is a very reliable one; Mail Forwarding | Mail Scanning | Mail Redirection | Mail Address

 

PS;  Also make sure you get at least two pay as you go UK sim cards before you leave. Preferably with at least 4-6 months non use validity.  Do your homework now!

Edited 3 hours ago by scottiejohn
PS; added

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

"Habitually resident" is to do with your future intentions, and not the number of days you spend in the UK.

If your thoughts are, "I'll spend a year in the UK, then I'll move back to Thailand", and you state that, then you would be habitually resident in Thailand, and when you returned to Thailand, your pension would be returned to the payment you received on your first stay in Thailand.

 

If on the other hand, if you returned to the UK with the intention of staying there forever, then simply change your mind later, your pension would be frozen at the rate you next left the UK.

 

Australia pensions work on the same theory, tell them you are going back for 2 years just to claim your OZ pension and you lose it when you leave. You have to intend to live the rest of your life in Australia to get it.

 

 

A good post.

 

Whilst you may well be right (in the changing your mind scenario), DWP will not confirm this. They will say that each case is determined on it's merits and there is specific rule covering it..............................Personally, I don't believe that but I have yet to see anything 'official' published on the EXACT criteria for retaining the uprated amount if you subsequently decide to return to Thailand.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Keith5588 said:

Sorry I have drunk too much to contine to write.

Thank you again @

Leave your address at your existing home. They won't check if you live there or not and your credit check at that address will still be good, if you offer no new UK address.

I've done that, it it's worked for the past 16 years.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Just sign up to a UK mail forwarding company a few months before you move and all will be well.  Do not wait until you have left!!!

Here is a very reliable one; Mail Forwarding | Mail Scanning | Mail Redirection | Mail Address

 

PS;  Also make sure you get at least two pay as you go UK sim cards before you leave. Preferably with at least 4-6 months non use validity.  Do your homework now!

Giffgaff SIM for UK bank OTP, you also need to send an SMS ever 4 months to keep it active, but they remind you if you forget. 10 quid call credit has lasted me 2+ years and I still have 8 pounds credit left.

 

If you're as paranoid as me, 20 pounds every 3 months for a Skype UK landline number, you can choose the town it appears to be in, they can call you as if you live in the UK. But you need to pay outgoing call charges, again 10 pounds lasts a long time.

Edited 2 hours ago by BritManToo

[scottiejohn]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Giffgaff SIM, you need to send an SMS ever 4 months to keep it active, but they remind you if you forget. 10 quid call credit has lasted me 2+ years and I still have 8 pounds credit left.

Thanks. I could not remember what that option is called when I made the post. I also use a non expiring "three" card but I do not think they still issue them!

[Upnotover]

1 hour ago, scottiejohn said:

Just sign up to a UK mail forwarding company a few months before you move and all will be well.  Do not wait until you have left!!!

Here is a very reliable one; Mail Forwarding | Mail Scanning | Mail Redirection | Mail Address

In your opinion, are they any use for banks, NS&I, DVLA, HMRC, DWP?

[KannikaP]

1 hour ago, Keith5588 said:

I am now having some Vodka & coke ....... I only drink alhohol about once a week ..... so now becoming affected ......... so sorry if I now ramble on.

March next year I will go to the UK. I have now been in Thailand for over 7 years and love life here. I have a lot of financial stuff to sort out in the UK and to sell my house. 

Sorry I have drunk too much to contine to write.

Thank you again @BritMan

Please don't share us all your alcohol problems, when talking about tax and pensions.

 

[hotandsticky]

Just now, KannikaP said:

Please don't share us all your alcohol problems, when talking about tax and pensions.

 

Oh, I don't know.....it perhaps puts the posts into perspective.

[scottiejohn]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Leave your address at your existing home. They won't check if you live there or not and your credit check at that address will still be good, if you offer no new UK address.

I've done that, it it's worked for the past 16 years.

Some banks (HSBC) will want proof of a new address or close your your account if the post office/occupant send back a "not know at this address" response.  Especially if the occupants get fed up with your bank letters!

Even though you may have opted for all correspondence to be by E-Mail they still sometimes send out letters!

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Please don't share us all your alcohol problems, when talking about tax and pensions.

 

Just thinking of a wine cooler and a joint, it'll help me forget about UK officialdom.

[scottiejohn]

17 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

In your opinion, are they any use for banks, NS&I, DVLA, HMRC, DWP?

Yes!  Banks, Credit cards etc are no problem!

I am actually on the voters roll using that company as my address!

 

PS;  It helps with your "Credit Score" and residency believability etc!

Edited 1 hour ago by scottiejohn

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Some banks (HSBC) will want proof of a new address or close your your account if the post office/occupant send back a "not know at this address" response.  Especially if the occupants get fed up with your bank letters!

Even though you may have opted for all correspondence to be by E-Mail they still sometimes send out letters!

Like I said, 16 years later and my bank haven't done that. But I'm sure a call from my UK landline could sort that out, if it ever happens. Don't forget to use your banks special over 60s call number, they answer immediately and are especially patient with you.

Edited 2 hours ago by BritManToo

[scottiejohn]

Just now, scottiejohn said:

Yes!  Banks, Credit cards etc are no problem!

I am actually on the voters roll using that company as my address!

BUT you must set it up while you still have present "proof of address" in the UK!

They need that "proof" before you switch addresses!

[Upnotover]

Just now, scottiejohn said:

BUT you must set it up while you still have present "proof of address" in the UK!

They need that "proof" before you switch addresses!

That could be my downfall!  I have only a valid driving license, maybe that would be enough.

[KannikaP]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just thinking of a wine cooler and a joint, it'll help me forget about UK officialdom.

And UK & Thai Officialdom make the 'prescriptions' more necessary

Does the mention of  'Wine Cooler' mean that your Mrs is helping you? 555 

Edited 2 hours ago by KannikaP

[scottiejohn]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Like I said, 16 years later and my bank haven't done that.

You have been lucky!

I am only trying to explain what in my opinion, and the method I have used, to continue to keep a UK residential address that seems to keep banks, CC companies, DWP etc happy.

My BIG point is that it is best to set it up a few months before you get here!

[scottiejohn]

4 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

That could be my downfall!  I have only a valid driving license, maybe that would be enough.

Go to the website and see what they now require!

I have been with them for many years!

 

PS;  Search the web.  There may be some less stringent companies around!!

Edited 2 hours ago by scottiejohn

[Upnotover]

6 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Go to the website and see what they now require!

I have been with them for many years!

 

PS;  Search the web.  There may be some less stringent companies around!!

I've sent them a message, thanks for your useful information.

[Upnotover]

45 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Go to the website and see what they now require!

I have been with them for many years!

 

PS;  Search the web.  There may be some less stringent companies around!!

Looks like I'm good to go, thanks again!

"

We require a photo identity, and you can use either your passport or driving licence for this.

 

For the address proof if you do not have a utility bill, then a bank statement is absolutely fine. We just need to see the address and date part (this is to be dated within the past 3 months)."