Should I buy a condo or rent?

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

There is no problem to buy, if you know you going to live there for 10 years, and you know the management is good, and the condominium is well run with decent rules, and the majority of owners, pays their maintenance fees, and you choose an apartment you know will be easy to sell, because of the location, the majority of the owners, is good, the maintenance is good, the facilities is attractive, the floor and side of building is attractive, and the apartment have good solutions, a proper kitchen, balcony, etc. Then you can be lucky, and if you do not have a crazy neighbour, who makes you life miserable for some reasons you didn't even think of

 

You make no reference to the price/rent ratio.  Could you provide some examples?

 

What will make it easy to sell?  What kind of location?  On a golf course?  Waterfront?  Near a mall?  And how many other condos are competing with it?  There is no shortage of anything that makes a “good location”.  It helps…but not that much.  

 

What’s a proper kitchen?  I havent seen any proper kitchens in condos under 10 million.  Maybe even 20.  They all seem to only have a 2 burner cooktop, a microwave and fridge.  Rarely is there an oven and even more rarely is there a dishwasher.  I think that one would have to renovate in order to get that proper kitchen, which is what I had to do, and I certainly don’t expect to recoup those funds even if it makes it easier to sell if/when the time comes.

 

I personally think that it all comes down to lifestyle choice and 99% of units aren’t worth owning and the only thing that makes a unit part of the 1% is entirely subjective and it will still have to be somewhat unique.  From what I see, there isn’t much uniqueness in basic 1 and 2 bedroom condos…with rare exceptions.  Especially at the price point that the OP is considering.

 

Can you provide a link to a condo for sale that you feel fits your criteria and is worth buying rather than renting?

[Airalee]

Can anybody else see the gobbledygook word salad here?

 

Would you trust an agent who spoke like that and can’t be clear, concise and provide examples?

 

 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

You make no reference to the price/rent ratio.  Could you provide some examples?

 

What will make it easy to sell?  What kind of location?  On a golf course?  Waterfront?  Near a mall?  And how many other condos are competing with it?  There is no shortage of anything that makes a “good location”.  It helps…but not that much.  

 

What’s a proper kitchen?  I havent seen any proper kitchens in condos under 10 million.  Maybe even 20.  They all seem to only have a 2 burner cooktop, a microwave and fridge.  Rarely is there an oven and even more rarely is there a dishwasher.  I think that one would have to renovate in order to get that proper kitchen, which is what I had to do, and I certainly don’t expect to recoup those funds even if it makes it easier to sell if/when the time comes.

 

I personally think that it all comes down to lifestyle choice and 99% of units aren’t worth owning and the only thing that makes a unit part of the 1% is entirely subjective and it will still have to be somewhat unique.  From what I see, there isn’t much uniqueness in basic 1 and 2 bedroom condos…with rare exceptions.  Especially at the price point that the OP is considering.

 

Can you provide a link to a condo for sale that you feel fits your criteria and is worth buying rather than renting?

There is a few key standards to look for, a 5 year or older condominium who still have decent maintenance, easy to see around the pool area, back side of building if any, the wall, the security do their job, decent dressed, parking look tidy, and if you search the property on real estate agencies, you see how many still for sale, and how many is short term rentals. 

 

The management is well trained and have answers to your questions, and also have written rules concerning tenants and owners and they answer you properly when you ask what is the penalties for braking the rules. 

 

Also ask to see their accounting figures, and you will see how many units sold, and how many actually pays their fees. Check who's in the board and who is the leader, as well ask to see intern communication fot the last years if possible. 

[Hummin]

34 minutes ago, Airalee said:

You make no reference to the price/rent ratio.  Could you provide some examples?

5% of realistic marked value, posted several times already

34 minutes ago, Airalee said:

 

What will make it easy to sell?  What kind of location?  On a golf course?  Waterfront?  Near a mall?  And how many other condos are competing with it?  There is no shortage of anything that makes a “good location”.  It helps…but not that much.  

See another post

34 minutes ago, Airalee said:

 

What’s a proper kitchen?  I havent seen any proper kitchens in condos under 10 million.  Maybe even 20.  They all seem to only have a 2 burner cooktop, a microwave and fridge.  Rarely is there an oven and even more rarely is there a dishwasher.  I think that one would have to renovate in order to get that proper kitchen, which is what I had to do, and I certainly don’t expect to recoup those funds even if it makes it easier to sell if/when the time comes.

I have been to 2 bedroom or more properties with decent kitchens, but it is the more older prospects, which also do have decent balconies.

34 minutes ago, Airalee said:

 

I personally think that it all comes down to lifestyle choice and 99% of units aren’t worth owning and the only thing that makes a unit part of the 1% is entirely subjective and it will still have to be somewhat unique.  From what I see, there isn’t much uniqueness in basic 1 and 2 bedroom condos…with rare exceptions.  Especially at the price point that the OP is considering.

 

Can you provide a link to a condo for sale that you feel fits your criteria and is worth buying rather than renting?

I have never found the real kinder egg yet, who had all my boxes ticked and that why I didn't buy back in 2017. 

 

My budget was 8 million, but those appartments I wanted was 10 and up. I would had bought if my currency didn't "collapse" bellow 1 nok 4 bath, and for now it is 1 nok 3,10. 

 

Actually my plan was to buy at once it was 4,5 again, but never reached back up, so.

 

Anyway, as you say, it is lifestyle and not everyone need everything I wanted, but still, there is very few of those on the marked who ticks all my boxes, and thats a reason why it is so few, because they sell quick at once they  are for sale. 

 

I'm going to see if I find one. 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 08:24 AM by Hummin

[Airalee]

17 minutes ago, Hummin said:

5% of realistic marked value, posted several times already

See another post

I have been to 2 bedroom or more properties with decent kitchens, but it is the more older prospects, which also do have decent balconies.

I have never found the real kinder egg yet, who had all my boxes ticked and that why I didn't buy back in 2017. 

 

My budget was 8 million, but those appartments I wanted was 10 and up. I would had bought if my currency didn't "collapse" bellow 1 not 4 bath, and for now is 1 nok 3,10. 

 

Actually my plan was to buy at once it was 4,5 again, but never reached back up, so.

 

Anyway, as you say, it is lifestyle and not everyone need everything I wanted, but still, there is very few of those on the marked who ticks all my boxes, and thats a reason why it is so few, because they sell quick at once they  are for sale. 

 

I'm going to see if I find one. 

 

 

Agree with what you say…and you also bring in the fact that “the stars must align” with respects to exchange rates and the fact that there are very few that really tick all the boxes.  That’s why I say that there are perhaps 1% of condos that I would consider as good investments.

 

I bought a new build during covid so I was able to purchase a “contract” from someone who want able to close at a steep discount.  Better for them to get a sliver of their 30% deposit back than nothing at all so they were selling it at a steep discount.  The money I saved was all put into gutting and renovating and I expect to lose a substantial portion of that if/when I sell.  Exchange rates (THB/USD) have also moved against me so if I repatriate those funds, I take another hit.

 

The people (not yourself) who try to use simple opinions such as “rent is throwing money away” or try to bully people (you just can’t afford it!….sour grapes!!)…..well….those are the people who’s opinions are worth what you pay for them.  Nothing.  

[khunPer]

On 11/28/2024 at 9:31 AM, Airalee said:

Before I bought, I rented from Thais who paid 4m for their condos.  In Chiang Mai I paid 14k and in Bangkok 18k.  Once again, show me a condo that has a 10% return.  I can show many with 3% or less returns.

 

I am very well aware of the games played by developers offering the “guaranteed” 6% return.  They overcharge for the condo and then basically refund your money over the length of the contract.  It doesn’t matter what it rents for.  Good luck selling for the same price after the 3-5 year “guarantee”

 

Once again, if you can’t show me examples comparing apples to apples which is easy to do with a condo you’re just coming off as a scammy realtor.

 

And land price means nothing when you have 3-400 units on an acre.

Land prices under appartement building in central areas can be quite high, in Bangkok a million baht or more per square Wah (4 square meters); so, land still has a value.

Some appartement buildings are however raised on 30-year leased land – around 1.300 hectares (3.200 acres) in Bangkok is leased land – where around 25 years are left for rental income after the construction is finished. So just to get the money and the land-lease payment back you need 4% percent – 100/25 = 4 – and on top of that, maintenance costs, capital interest, and gain/profit. So, that's also why the 8% to 12% of invested capital, as the professionel investors I know use as rent, makes sense in property business.

A quote: "The amount of rent you charge your tenants should be a percentage of your home’s market value. Typically, the rents that landlords charge fall between 0.8% and 1.1% of the home’s value. For example, for a home valued at $250,000, a landlord could charge between $2,000 and $2,750 each month."
Source link HERE.

And I'm talking about percentage of property-investor's construction price. Later asking-for retail prices are often too high and often finally re-sold with some level of discount. Using re-sale price as calculation gives you a wrong "picture", as the rental-percentage seems lower. Re-sale asking price on newer build appartements can be 35% or more over market price, which also can be higher the actual construction costs, as a developer will add some markup margin if building condos for sale.

If you read my original post to OP's question, I gave an indication of what rental-level to look at, for a similar condo, which was in the level around 30k baht a month. Others commented about the same price level. Then I suggested to do a calculation compared with OP's investment in buying a conde for little more than 4 million baht. OP didn't mentioned any details, so it's not known if it's a newbuilt condo or an older one on re-sale.

When you own a condo you still have monthly fees to pay and the need to be included in the rental calculation, same with your loss of interest on the invested capital.

You might find appartements for lower percentage rent compared with re-sale asking price, and that might be great value for money rather than buying a condo yourself.

If OP can find something similar that OP likes for a lower price than calculated, then it might be better value to rent than buy, depending of the long-term time factor for gain as owner, which could be 15-25 years; or even longer.

The basics of professional business investment is to make money, and that's what I talking about, when I mention the calculation of 8% to 12%; which actually is the one used base in property business; even that you can find cheaper examples.

[Airalee]

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

Land prices under appartement building in central areas can be quite high, in Bangkok a million baht or more per square Wah (4 square meters); so, land still has a value.

Some appartement buildings are however raised on 30-year leased land – around 1.300 hectares (3.200 acres) in Bangkok is leased land – where around 25 years are left for rental income after the construction is finished. So just to get the money and the land-lease payment back you need 4% percent – 100/25 = 4 – and on top of that, maintenance costs, capital interest, and gain/profit. So, that's also why the 8% to 12% of invested capital, as the professionel investors I know use as rent, makes sense in property business.

A quote: "The amount of rent you charge your tenants should be a percentage of your home’s market value. Typically, the rents that landlords charge fall between 0.8% and 1.1% of the home’s value. For example, for a home valued at $250,000, a landlord could charge between $2,000 and $2,750 each month."
Source link HERE.

And I'm talking about percentage of property-investor's construction price. Later asking-for retail prices are often too high and often finally re-sold with some level of discount. Using re-sale price as calculation gives you a wrong "picture", as the rental-percentage seems lower. Re-sale asking price on newer build appartements can be 35% or more over market price, which also can be higher the actual construction costs, as a developer will add some markup margin if building condos for sale.

If you read my original post to OP's question, I gave an indication of what rental-level to look at, for a similar condo, which was in the level around 30k baht a month. Others commented about the same price level. Then I suggested to do a calculation compared with OP's investment in buying a conde for little more than 4 million baht. OP didn't mentioned any details, so it's not known if it's a newbuilt condo or an older one on re-sale.

When you own a condo you still have monthly fees to pay and the need to be included in the rental calculation, same with your loss of interest on the invested capital.

You might find appartements for lower percentage rent compared with re-sale asking price, and that might be great value for money rather than buying a condo yourself.

If OP can find something similar that OP likes for a lower price than calculated, then it might be better value to rent than buy, depending of the long-term time factor for gain as owner, which could be 15-25 years; or even longer.

The basics of professional business investment is to make money, and that's what I talking about, when I mention the calculation of 8% to 12%; which actually is the one used base in property business; even that you can find cheaper examples.

Once again.

 

Show me a development with 4 million baht condos that rents for 30k a month.  If you can find one…and I think you can’t….I will show you 100 that bring in less than 20…usually far less.

 

I don’t care what developers build costs are.

 

stop with your word salads.  It makes you look like a doddering fool.

[Phillip9]

It is definitely absolutely better to rent a condo in Thailand than buy.

• Condo purchases are no bargain.  List prices are very high, and when dealing with a foreigner, they will stick to those inflated prices.
• Thais don't normally buy used condos.  They will always prefer to buy a new condo, so it is incredibly difficult to sell a used condo.
• Building maintenance usually gets worse and worse as a building ages.  Your home will be in a steady state of decline.
• Things can change very quickly in Thailand--a new construction project can appear next to your once quiet home, new noisy neighbors can move in next door.
• Rentals are very reasonably priced and available in just about every building.

[quake]

2 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

It is definitely absolutely better to rent a condo in Thailand than buy.

 

Not as easy as that. one size does not fit all. 

many factors.

your age.

How much money you have.

Do you want to leave an asset to someone. and so on.

 

24 years condo owner, no regrets at all. it owes me nothing. 

it's be come my holiday pad,  near the beach for a few months a year know days. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by quake

[Hummin]

10 hours ago, khunPer said:

Land prices under appartement building in central areas can be quite high, in Bangkok a million baht or more per square Wah (4 square meters); so, land still has a value.

Some appartement buildings are however raised on 30-year leased land – around 1.300 hectares (3.200 acres) in Bangkok is leased land – where around 25 years are left for rental income after the construction is finished. So just to get the money and the land-lease payment back you need 4% percent – 100/25 = 4 – and on top of that, maintenance costs, capital interest, and gain/profit. So, that's also why the 8% to 12% of invested capital, as the professionel investors I know use as rent, makes sense in property business.

A quote: "The amount of rent you charge your tenants should be a percentage of your home’s market value. Typically, the rents that landlords charge fall between 0.8% and 1.1% of the home’s value. For example, for a home valued at $250,000, a landlord could charge between $2,000 and $2,750 each month."
Source link HERE.

And I'm talking about percentage of property-investor's construction price. Later asking-for retail prices are often too high and often finally re-sold with some level of discount. Using re-sale price as calculation gives you a wrong "picture", as the rental-percentage seems lower. Re-sale asking price on newer build appartements can be 35% or more over market price, which also can be higher the actual construction costs, as a developer will add some markup margin if building condos for sale.

If you read my original post to OP's question, I gave an indication of what rental-level to look at, for a similar condo, which was in the level around 30k baht a month. Others commented about the same price level. Then I suggested to do a calculation compared with OP's investment in buying a conde for little more than 4 million baht. OP didn't mentioned any details, so it's not known if it's a newbuilt condo or an older one on re-sale.

When you own a condo you still have monthly fees to pay and the need to be included in the rental calculation, same with your loss of interest on the invested capital.

You might find appartements for lower percentage rent compared with re-sale asking price, and that might be great value for money rather than buying a condo yourself.

If OP can find something similar that OP likes for a lower price than calculated, then it might be better value to rent than buy, depending of the long-term time factor for gain as owner, which could be 15-25 years; or even longer.

The basics of professional business investment is to make money, and that's what I talking about, when I mention the calculation of 8% to 12%; which actually is the one used base in property business; even that you can find cheaper examples.

 

My best guess is, the op is just a normal guy who wants a place for himself, thats it! 

 

There is pros to own a condo, and there is cons, so for each and one it will be a personal choice. I hate noisy, smoking neighbours, so for me, it have to be the right place, unless I live like I do today, with no close neighbours, at a farm in middle of nowhere 😄

 

My wife owns everything, and that keeps me in check. So far high rent, but it gets cheaper year by year 😉

[Phillip9]

22 minutes ago, quake said:

Not as easy as that. one size does not fit all. 

many factors.

your age.

How much money you have.

Do you want to leave an asset to someone. and so on.

 

24 years condo owner, no regrets at all. it owes me nothing. 

it's be come my holiday pad,  near the beach for a few months a year know days

 

You've been lucky.  There are not many 24+ year old condos in Thailand I would want to live in.

 

 None of the factors you sight would affect my decision.   It's Just way too much risk for me to consider buying something that is so hard to sell and can change suddenly.

[quake]

26 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

 

You've been lucky.  There are not many 24+ year old condos in Thailand I would want to live in.

 

Ok mate.

Guess I must be. 

 

Ps I have always suspected the people that shout load, don't buy just rent.

Are manly people who don't have the money to buy. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by quake

[newnative]

1 hour ago, quake said:

 

Not as easy as that. one size does not fit all. 

many factors.

your age.

How much money you have.

Do you want to leave an asset to someone. and so on.

 

24 years condo owner, no regrets at all. it owes me nothing. 

it's be come my holiday pad,  near the beach for a few months a year know days. 

 

 

 

 

 

      I totally agree.  There is definitely not a 'one size fits all' answer.  It's all up to the individual or couple as to whether renting or buying is the best choice for them--but maybe not for me, or you, or that guy over there behind the tree.   I will say that I've never lost money--here or in the US--on any condo I have owned.  And, there have been about 30 of them.   Re-selling them was not the struggle some make it out to be--but, again, just my experience.  

     Whether I can sell at a profit or I sustain a loss doesn't enter into the buy/rent equation with me.  I simply like to own the space I live in, whether I am somewhere short-term or long-term.  For me, the joys of owning far outweigh profit or loss.  You likely only go around once in life and that once is too important for me to live in someone else's space--and taste--on my one go-around.   But, that's me--not you or that guy behind the tree.  

     There can certainly be advantages to renting, especially here in Thailand.  There can also be advantages to owning if you are here long-term.  People can post their opinions but I don't think anyone can say what's the best choice for someone they know very little about--too many factors in play, or should be in play.   For the OP, I would say follow your heart and good luck with whichever choice you make.

[cowboys2008]

I have another question about owning a condo. Do things get "old" after a while?

 

Thailand is like the Disneyland for adult men, but if you go to Disneyland every day, it's no longer fun. I've been going to Thailand since 2005 (30+ times) and it's been a blast every time. I think renting might be more fun, because when things get stale, I cold move on to another city or country (Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos)

[jas007]

20 minutes ago, cowboys2008 said:

I have another question about owning a condo. Do things get "old" after a while?

 

Thailand is like the Disneyland for adult men, but if you go to Disneyland every day, it's no longer fun. I've been going to Thailand since 2005 (30+ times) and it's been a blast every time. I think renting might be more fun, because when things get stale, I cold move on to another city or country (Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos)

Absolutely, That's one thing people should consider. Buy a place in Thailand only if you're OK with never seeing that money again, or at least never seeing all of it again.  If you want to leave, selling a condo is much harder than buying one.  Then again, depending on what you buy, they don't have to cost too much.  You could have a condo here, and a condo in another country, and just come back once in a while. 

[Hummin]

On 11/29/2024 at 3:37 PM, Airalee said:

Agree with what you say…and you also bring in the fact that “the stars must align” with respects to exchange rates and the fact that there are very few that really tick all the boxes.  That’s why I say that there are perhaps 1% of condos that I would consider as good investments.

 

I bought a new build during covid so I was able to purchase a “contract” from someone who want able to close at a steep discount.  Better for them to get a sliver of their 30% deposit back than nothing at all so they were selling it at a steep discount.  The money I saved was all put into gutting and renovating and I expect to lose a substantial portion of that if/when I sell.  Exchange rates (THB/USD) have also moved against me so if I repatriate those funds, I take another hit.

 

The people (not yourself) who try to use simple opinions such as “rent is throwing money away” or try to bully people (you just can’t afford it!….sour grapes!!)…..well….those are the people who’s opinions are worth what you pay for them.  Nothing.  

What do you think of this one ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ag7sYjyeA/

[EdrigoSalvadore]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

What do you think of this one ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ag7sYjyeA/

Looks like a bargain. My condo is for sale for 14 million, the same size, not far from that one. I pay 45000 rent each month. Mine is probably 10-15 years newer and a bit more luxurious thought.

[Airalee]

3 hours ago, Hummin said:

What do you think of this one ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ag7sYjyeA/

I have a few issues with it.  Please don’t take it personally.  Firstly,  I’m guessing that those townhomes will be razed and another high rise will block the original view.  I’m a sucker for a view.

 

Then, there is the renovation.  The floor tiles aren’t neutral/timeless enough (the veining and polished finish)  and the black kitchen and the built in wood entertainment center are quite dated.  I think it’s better to shoot for a more neutral minimalist design.  The bathrooms are horrendous.  Balcony is nicely sized but I’d take a smaller unit with and unobstructable view rather than having a view of a million other units close up.  I’d bet that in person, it will feel more claustrophobic positioned so close to all the other buildings.

 

Back during the housing bubble (2005-2007), I always enjoyed following this guys flips in the smaller homes in the neighborhood adjacent to where I grew up.  (Los Angeles) Mostly, they have stood the test of time.

 

http://jadartarchitecture.com/architecture/

 

 

[Phillip9]

6 hours ago, Hummin said:

What do you think of this one ?

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/1Ag7sYjyeA/

 

That first picture of the ocean is way zoomed in and deceptive.  I doubt you will even notice the ocean from the balcony without a zoom lens.  From the other pictures,  it looks like the only view you actually have is of several other very close condos.  Go look at in person before even thinking about it.