Specific EV Questions

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

Hi All,

 

Like already discussed, will be waiting to install a wall charger for a couple of months. We are going to try to brave it without one for the first few months and then if we really need it will look at installing one.

 

Someone on here recommended this from Lazada:
Charger

 

Just want confirmation that is going to be safe to use and will be slightly quicker that the one provided by BYD?

Also, what amps can I set it to safely? I have 2 normal sockets in my driveway which I will plug it into so please let me know....Should I start small at 8....or can I safely use 16A?
 

Thanks

Yes...it would work.

 

As to what you can "safely" start with current-wise requires you to know if there are any other electrical equipment on the same circuit and how much that equipment is pulling amp-wise.  Like maybe lights, outlets in the house that maybe your TV or similar equipment is hooked to....maybe a  microwave....may be an A/C....maybe who knows what.     Then add on what the charger will draw when in use.  Determine if you will then exceed the safe current draw for that circuit.

 

What if that circuit is not a standalone circuit and it just a branch of a circuit that is also powering other equipment/sockets in your home.   What if that circuit (and lets say it's a 16A circuit)  is almost always pulling 5A and maybe even a higher current (say 10A total) when certain in-frequently used equipment is turned on.  Well, if you plug in your EV charger set to 16A you are now up to 21A (or maybe 26A) being pulled exceeding the 16A circuit safe limit.   

 

Well, you might think that the 16A circuit breaker will trip "immediately" whenever exceeding 16A but that is not the way a circuit breaker work.   That 16A circuit breaker will only trip once the current exceeds 16A for a certain length of time depending on how high the current actually is.  Circuit breakers have a "trip curve" which is typically a B or C curve in homes which determine when the breaker will trip after the 16A is exceeded...and as mentioned it depends on "how long" and "how high the current is"....both come into play as to when the breaker will trip.

 

Seems here in Thailand circuit breakers with a C-curve are used.  Just look at the front of the circuit breaker....if it says B16, B20, etc., it's B-curve circuit breaker, if it says C16, C20, etc., it's a C-curve circuit breaker.  A B-curve breaker has a faster trip curve than a C-curve breaker, but even that B-curve breaker does not trip immediately unless really high current is drawn.   

 

A C-16A circuit breaker (which you probably have) would take well over 1000 (one thousand) seconds to trip with 21A going thru it.  If would not trip "immediately" (i.e., less than 1 second overload) until at least 80A and a max of  160A.   See below weblink and snapshot for more info on circuit breakers, tripping curves, etc.   

 

The only way to "really" know how many amps a circuit is carrying is to measure it with an ammeter.  Maybe you have such an ammeter already on your main circuit box.  Maybe you have clamp-on ammeter?    

 

 

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2021/07/tripping-curves-circuit-breaker.html

 

[Yodarapper]

18 hours ago, Pib said:

Yes...it would work.

 

As to what you can "safely" start with current-wise requires you to know if there are any other electrical equipment on the same circuit and how much that equipment is pulling amp-wise.  Like maybe lights, outlets in the house that maybe your TV or similar equipment is hooked to....maybe a  microwave....may be an A/C....maybe who knows what.     Then add on what the charger will draw when in use.  Determine if you will then exceed the safe current draw for that circuit.

 

What if that circuit is not a standalone circuit and it just a branch of a circuit that is also powering other equipment/sockets in your home.   What if that circuit (and lets say it's a 16A circuit)  is almost always pulling 5A and maybe even a higher current (say 10A total) when certain in-frequently used equipment is turned on.  Well, if you plug in your EV charger set to 16A you are now up to 21A (or maybe 26A) being pulled exceeding the 16A circuit safe limit.   

 

Well, you might think that the 16A circuit breaker will trip "immediately" whenever exceeding 16A but that is not the way a circuit breaker work.   That 16A circuit breaker will only trip once the current exceeds 16A for a certain length of time depending on how high the current actually is.  Circuit breakers have a "trip curve" which is typically a B or C curve in homes which determine when the breaker will trip after the 16A is exceeded...and as mentioned it depends on "how long" and "how high the current is"....both come into play as to when the breaker will trip.

 

Seems here in Thailand circuit breakers with a C-curve are used.  Just look at the front of the circuit breaker....if it says B16, B20, etc., it's B-curve circuit breaker, if it says C16, C20, etc., it's a C-curve circuit breaker.  A B-curve breaker has a faster trip curve than a C-curve breaker, but even that B-curve breaker does not trip immediately unless really high current is drawn.   

 

A C-16A circuit breaker (which you probably have) would take well over 1000 (one thousand) seconds to trip with 21A going thru it.  If would not trip "immediately" (i.e., less than 1 second overload) until at least 80A and a max of  160A.   See below weblink and snapshot for more info on circuit breakers, tripping curves, etc.   

 

The only way to "really" know how many amps a circuit is carrying is to measure it with an ammeter.  Maybe you have such an ammeter already on your main circuit box.  Maybe you have clamp-on ammeter?    

 

 

https://www.electricaltechnology.org/2021/07/tripping-curves-circuit-breaker.html

 

wow! Thanks for such a detailed response.

 

honestly I understand most of it but still have questions:

 

how should I proceed? Should I set the charger to the lowest amp and charge or to the highest and see.

 

basically my question is, if I am going to wait a couple of months to install a wall box - need to continue conversations with landlord, he seems ok - and I buy this charger off lazada, how should I use it that makes it better than the slow charger supplied by byd?

 

thanks!

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

wow! Thanks for such a detailed response.

 

honestly I understand most of it but still have questions:

 

how should I proceed? Should I set the charger to the lowest amp and charge or to the highest and see.

 

basically my question is, if I am going to wait a couple of months to install a wall box - need to continue conversations with landlord, he seems ok - and I buy this charger off lazada, how should I use it that makes it better than the slow charger supplied by byd?

 

thanks!

I would go straight in at 16 amp, if it gets very hot or a breaker trips then knock it down to 13 amp.

If it does the same at 13 amp then you should look at upgrading some wiring or a breaker otherwise you have wasted money and could use the free granny/emergency charger ( 10 amp ) supplied with the car.

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

I would go straight in at 16 amp, if it gets very hot or a breaker trips then knock it down to 13 amp.

If it does the same at 13 amp then you should look at upgrading some wiring or a breaker otherwise you have wasted money and could use the free granny/emergency charger ( 10 amp ) supplied with the car.

 

That's exactly what I would do too.  Expect the plug in the wall to get warm, that's normal.

[Yodarapper]

Thanks! So what would be normal vs not normal?

 

obviously I want try it out during the day when I can check in to

male sure all is good before I leave overnight to charge.

 

plug in wall will get warm but not too hot to the touch?

the charger type 2 that goes into the Atto3 should not get warm at all?

 

thanks!

[JBChiangRai]

2 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Thanks! So what would be normal vs not normal?

 

obviously I want try it out during the day when I can check in to

male sure all is good before I leave overnight to charge.

 

plug in wall will get warm but not too hot to the touch?

the charger type 2 that goes into the Atto3 should not get warm at all?

 

thanks!

 

My plugs into the car (CCS2) do get warm, but overly hot.

 

Warm is normal, if it's uncomfortably hot, knock your charging down to 13 amp, but I doubt you'll need to.

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

 

how should I proceed? Should I set the charger to the lowest amp and charge or to the highest and see.

 

As I posted before.  To "safely" do it you should evaluate/measure how much current is used on the branch you plug the charger into.   That is, see how much current that circuit might normally have on it....then add on what the charger will add....see if the result exceed that branch current rating.    Or pay a local electrical tech to come check the circuit with his clamp-on ammeter...it would just take him a few minutes to remove the panel, you turn on a bunch of stuff around the house, and him to measure the current draw.  Now you know....no need to guess by experimenting by just plugging in more stuff like a charger to see if and how long it takes for the circuit breaker to trip.   Spend a few hundred baht to check things out.

 

You can buy clamp-on ammeters for around Bt200 off Lazada/Shopee....then remove the front panel of your main circuit box....then clamp the meter around the wire that feeds out of the controlling circuit breaker for your driveway socket....see what level of current the meter now shows....even turn on most everything in your house for a few seconds/minutes to include things you would only turn on at night....to see if the ammeter then displays a higher current level.   OK, after doing this you know how many amps the circuit the driveway socket is on normally carries and/or carries when certain equipment is turned on. 

 

Say, the ammeter always shows zero amps....then that means the driveway socket is on a dedicated branch....it does not feed any other branches in the house.  If always showing zero amps and assuming it's at least a 16A circuit/breaker then you can safely start at a 16A charger setting.   Now my carport socket is "not" on a dedicated circuit....it only a circuit that powers some stuff inside a downstairs portion of my home...that circuit is always drawing a few amps.   But since my portable charger only draws 10A when I rarely use it to check it still works, that circuit breaker circuit never draws more than 16A as I've checked with the ammeter that is built into my main circuit breaker panel and also my clamp-on ammeter.  I have confirmed I can safely use that socket with my portable 10A charger when I check it out maybe twice a year.

 

 But say the ammeter showed some level of current like say 2A, 5A, 6A, etc., with the charger "not" plugged in & charging, then that "some level of current" needs to be your starting point to determine what charger amp level you can safely use.  If the circuit was drawing 3A sometimes without the charger being used then when charging at 16A like you are thinking about doing it going to go to 19A being used on say a 16A circuit for an extended time....like hours and hours as you charge your EV.  When will the circuit breaker finally trip raising concern for you?     Well, it depends on breakers trip curve, how much current is being drawn and for how long like we have discussed.  And note I've been using a 16A circuit breaker circuit as an example....your driveway socket may be on a 20A circuit which would mean if that circuit was normally drawing 4A without the charger and then you plug in the charger at 16A then you are still safe at a total of 19A on that 20A circuit breaker.  But don't exceed the 16A on driveway socket because the socket itself is probably rated at 16A amps.

 

Or you can do it an unsafe way of just plugging it in an see what happens over the coming months like the circuit breaker trips "many" minutes or hours after you plugged in the charger---that means you a drawing significantly more current than is safe for that branch.....and if the circuit breaker trips within a just a few minutes then you are really drawing a current way, way above the circuit breaker's rating. 

 

Circuit breakers have two mechanisms which determine how fast the trip.  One is the bimetallic strip that "slowly" responds to an overcurrent condition.....and the second an electromagnet coil that "very quickly" responds to large overcurrent/shorts.    Just review that link I gave earlier on how a circuit breaker works....it's trip curve....it's not like the how many people think a circuit breaker "immediately" trips when exceeds the breaker's rating by just a little bit like a 16A breaker tripping at 17A--nope, don't work that way.

 

Yeap, you can either do it safely by first measuring how much current the circuit is using....Or, do it by just plugging in the charger and see what happens although you will not be able to see what damage it may do to wiring in the wall over a long or short period.   Good luck.