Thailand's EV Industry Faces Challenges Amid Subsidy Concerns - video

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

Do these EV's do well with short mileage trips daily, or are they depleting their batteries too quickly during the week? Also, how about when stuck in traffic with the AC cranking for long periods of time? Just trying to figure out of they make sense more for longer drives at speed, and not so much for short city commutes, or vice versa. 

 

You can run the AC on a Seal for a few days without flattening the battery.

 

13 hours ago, Kinnock said:

We're in the market for a new car, but it probably won't be an EV due to our specific needs, but the cars with the most interesting designs and innovative features were definitely the EV's.

 

Can I ask what your specific requirements are that rule out an EV?

[watchcat]

12 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Now, repeat after me, 1 thousand, 2 thousand, and now we're both at 100 kph, and I'm 2 secs behind you.  

 

Not if you dont enjoy  dragracing 2 seconds  behind you might as well climb back in your coffin

[JBChiangRai]

14 hours ago, MartinBangkok said:

I see the envy of EV-owners when I thunder past them on M3 on my way from Suvarnabhumi to Ban Chang (they can't try to outgun me cause then they would have to turn off their aircon on their way to Rayong to save power)

 

To rub it in, I select the fullest volume on the V6 Ranger Raptors adjustable sports exhaust when I fly by them.

 

The feeling is great.

 

🙂

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Seal Power to weight ratio is 150% of the Raptor, I believe the expression is the Seal will p?ss all over the Ford.

 

Ford Ranger Raptor V6

• Engine: 3.0L Twin-Turbo V6

• Power: 405 horsepower (302 kW)

• Weight: 5,325 lbs (2,436 kg)

• Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.08 hp/lb 

BYD Seal Performance

• Engine: Dual Motor Electric

• Power: 523 horsepower (390 kW)

• Weight: 4,540 lbs (2,055 kg)

• Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.12 hp/lb 

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, watchcat said:

 

Not if you dont enjoy  dragracing 2 seconds  behind you might as well climb back in your coffin

Drag racing at 70 yr old, and with a Raptor or MG SUV, and on Thai roads no less ... Seriously, how old are you ?  I've rarely done that when I was a kid, and only on MC.

 

You guys are too funny 😎

[Kinnock]

15 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Can I ask what your specific requirements are that rule out an EV?

Long distance journeys to visit farms around rural Thailand carrying bulky equipment, then muddy farm tracks - where 4X4 plus a diff lock is handy.

 

Sometimes carrying several passengers too.

 

[DonniePeverley]

It's the same all over the world. 

 

In practise EV's are brilliant, especially in a city like Bangkok which needs them to combat horrific road level pollution. 

 

But unless you can charge a vehicle in 10 minutes then it's a no for me. Or at least have a charge that can have me coming back and forth from long trips. 

[KhunLA]

3 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

It's the same all over the world. 

 

In practise EV's are brilliant, especially in a city like Bangkok which needs them to combat horrific road level pollution. 

 

But unless you can charge a vehicle in 10 minutes then it's a no for me. Or at least have a charge that can have me coming back and forth from long trips. 

You simply charge overnight at home.  Unless O&A, no reason or need to charge anything in 10 minutes.   How many kms do you drive a day.  Even your granny charger will give most folks 150 kms overnight (2100-0600).  That's at ~2.3kWh an hour, step up to ~3.5kWh cable and you can squeeze in a bit more, if Wall Charger isn't free with car, or you don't want to buy.

 

If you can't charge at home, then maybe an BEV isn't for you, especially if an impatient person.

 

More silliness from the anti EV'ers.

[KhunLA]

5 hours ago, Kinnock said:

Long distance journeys to visit farms around rural Thailand carrying bulky equipment, then muddy farm tracks - where 4X4 plus a diff lock is handy.

 

Sometimes carrying several passengers too.

 

Amazing .. someone with real reasons not to have a BEV, at this point in time 👍

[DonniePeverley]

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

You simply charge overnight at home.  Unless O&A, no reason or need to charge anything in 10 minutes.   How many kms do you drive a day.  Even your granny charger will give most folks 150 kms overnight (2100-0600).  That's at ~2.3kWh an hour, step up to ~3.5kWh cable and you can squeeze in a bit more, if Wall Charger isn't free with car, or you don't want to buy.

 

If you can't charge at home, then maybe an BEV isn't for you, especially if an impatient person.

 

More silliness from the anti EV'ers.

 

 

Looked at the range of some of these cheaper EV's .... it won't get you far on long trips. 

 

Also they are trying to push it in India ... but go tell that to a single women who runs out of battery in the middle of nowhere. 

[richard_smith237]

51 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

 

Looked at the range of some of these cheaper EV's .... it won't get you far on long trips. 

 

Also they are trying to push it in India ... but go tell that to a single women who runs out of battery in the middle of nowhere. 

 

What does a single woman who runs out of petrol in the middle of nowhere do ?

[KhunLA]

53 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

Looked at the range of some of these cheaper EV's .... it won't get you far on long trips. 

 

Also they are trying to push it in India ... but go tell that to a single women who runs out of battery in the middle of nowhere. 

You get what you pay for.  What do you expect for < 560k baht.  Not many cars in that price range, that I'd want to own.   Matter of fact, none at all.  If one's budget for a new car is that low, then that cheap BEV may be the answer.  Beats buying petrol.

 

Only the most stupid idiot would run out of battery, anywhere, as plenty of warnings before that would happen.   If that stupid, then they surely be running out of petrol in the middle of nowhere 

[richard_smith237]

13 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

It's the same all over the world. 

 

In practise EV's are brilliant, especially in a city like Bangkok which needs them to combat horrific road level pollution. 

 

But unless you can charge a vehicle in 10 minutes then it's a no for me. Or at least have a charge that can have me coming back and forth from long trips. 

 

I thought so too... 

 

But...   we're in a significant net positive already with regards to 'time saving' when charging up and while out, vs filling up with petrol. 

 

Filling up takes on average 2-5mins (every week).

Charging over night takes no time. 

Charging while out and about obviosly takes additional time. 

 

We've had to charge 3x at 'Gas stations' while on road trips - each time we stopped for a an ice-cream, a KFC and another for a Burger King (on road trips) and the charging was quicker than it took us to eat.

 

BUT...  an EV is not good for someoene who prefers to drive 500kms non stop and just fill up in 2-5mins.... 

 

 

 

[MartinBangkok]

On 12/8/2024 at 11:01 AM, JBChiangRai said:

 

The Seal Power to weight ratio is 150% of the Raptor, I believe the expression is the Seal will p?ss all over the Ford.

 

Ford Ranger Raptor V6

• Engine: 3.0L Twin-Turbo V6

• Power: 405 horsepower (302 kW)

• Weight: 5,325 lbs (2,436 kg)

• Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.08 hp/lb 

BYD Seal Performance

• Engine: Dual Motor Electric

• Power: 523 horsepower (390 kW)

• Weight: 4,540 lbs (2,055 kg)

• Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.12 hp/lb 

 

Yes, those specs are true.

But which one is more fun to drive?

And which one is safest? (big, heavy is a safe bet in Thailand)

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, MartinBangkok said:

big, heavy is a safe bet

For you, not so much for those around you as you careen into them.

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, mikebike said:

25 minutes ago, MartinBangkok said:

big, heavy is a safe bet

For you, not so much for those around you as you careen into them.

 

It [the Ford Ranger] is not safer for him (the occupant) either, as its suspension and off-road set up is inherently less stable on the road than a BYD Seal - with all other things being equal (conditions and driver) the Ford Ranger is more likely to be involved in an on road accident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikebike]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

It [the Ford Ranger] is not safer for him (the occupant) either, as its suspension and off-road set up is inherently less stable on the road than a BYD Seal - with all other things being equal (conditions and driver) the Ford Ranger is more likely to be involved in an on road accident.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What decade do live in? A modern 4x4 ranger handles better than any vehicle prior to the 90s. Unless you are mentally deficient, it is almost impossible to screw up, even with a 4x4.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, mikebike said:

What decade do live in? A modern 4x4 ranger handles better than any vehicle prior to the 90s. Unless you are mentally deficient, it is almost impossible to screw up, even with a 4x4.

 

The Watts link rear suspension of the Range is an improvement on previous models and the FOX Live Valve dampers improve stability. However, the Ranger also has high-clearance, off-road-focused suspension, it's exhibits body roll during and over overall grip and precision is reduced compared to any low-centre-of-gravity vehicle.

The All-terrain tyres commonly fitted on the Raptor are designed for durability and off-road grip and offer less traction on wet, smooth roads compared to road-focused tyres of a sedan car.

 

Whereas the BYD Seal has a multi-link rear suspension which offers excellent independent wheel movement, maximising tyre contact with the road. It has a low centre of gravity (due to battery pack placement) ensuring minimal body roll, with road-specific tyres optimal grip is delivered enhancing sharp handling and better precision. The Seal also has selective dampening.

 

When assessing road holding specifically in dry and wet conditions the suspension system, weight distribution, tyre performance, and drivetrain setup all have an impact....  

 

Thus: I'd ask, what decade to you live in ? becase I'm discussing a Ranger and BYD from 2024 and not decades ago....

 

 

Now, ask me which car I'd prefer and I'd say the Ranger because I like it more....  But I'm not going to pull the wool over my own eyes and make shyite up to justify why I like it more - Its ok, just to have a preference for no reason at all without all the made up tosh to justify it. 

[0ffshore360]

On 12/7/2024 at 1:15 AM, redwood1 said:

Anyone that buys a EV  is really in need of a brain transplant.....To help them see what a bad investment EVs are....In the long run they will cost more than ICE vehicles when insurance repairs and resale value is included... 

Why is insurance  and resale a consideration for an owner who avoids accident and  responsibly services an asset according to best advice?

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

On 12/7/2024 at 1:15 AM, redwood1 said:

Anyone that buys a EV  is really in need of a brain transplant.....To help them see what a bad investment EVs are....In the long run they will cost more than ICE vehicles when insurance repairs and resale value is included... 

Why is insurance  and resale a consideration for an owner who avoids accident and  responsibly services an asset according to best advice?

 

I think the issue in a lot of EV threads is that the arguments are presented from the extremes of bias without balance.

 

I own an EV and have concerns that the price would drop off a cliff close to 7 or 8 years of age.

But, I've also owned more expensive cars and they lost more than the value of the EV's we're discussing within 3 years.

I've had vehicles which cost 80,000 baht a year to insure...  I'm not sure how much my current EV will cost to insure because its included in the first year of insurance...  That said, the fuel savings (vs electricity costs) will out balance any extra insurance cost if there is one.

 

As far as price - Similar spec EV to ICE (similar car sizes etc) are the same prices. 

We lost 70% of the value of or last car (ICE) in 6 years - I expect pretty much the same from an EV (but will never be sure for another 6 years).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I thought so too... 

 

But...   we're in a significant net positive already with regards to 'time saving' when charging up and while out, vs filling up with petrol. 

 

Filling up takes on average 2-5mins (every week).

Charging over night takes no time. 

Charging while out and about obviosly takes additional time. 

 

We've had to charge 3x at 'Gas stations' while on road trips - each time we stopped for a an ice-cream, a KFC and another for a Burger King (on road trips) and the charging was quicker than it took us to eat.

 

BUT...  an EV is not good for someoene who prefers to drive 500kms non stop and just fill up in 2-5mins.... 

Careful ... you're starting to sound like me 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

Yes, those specs are true.

But which one is more fun to drive?

And which one is safest? (big, heavy is a safe bet in Thailand)

Unless you are trying to stop ... heavier takes longer = not as safe

 

MG ZS EV ... 1570 kg

Raptor v6 ... 2415 kg

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Careful ... you're starting to sound like me 

 

A lot of the information on real life experience were from the threads and your contributions on EV's !!...  

 

T'was your persistent nursing of wood for the MG's for which you took a bit of rubbing... (no pun)... 

 

I also don't buy into the whole 'green aspect' of EV's at all (when all aspects are considered - thats a separate debate) - but IMO they are better cars...

 

 

One thing though - I am noticing more 'bounce' at fast highway speeds - not as severe as a mates pick-up, but worse than my previous...  I'm not sure if thats down to an extra weight (1750 kgs to 2130 kgs - due to a long range batter) - but I don't think so, as I've had SUV's in the past that weigh 2200 kgs and 2500 kgs... so I suspect its purely down to the suspension quality. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Unless you are trying to stop ... heavier takes longer = not as safe

 

MG ZS EV ... 1570 kg

Raptor v6 ... 2415 kg

 

 

Zero to 100 kmh in seconds / 100 kmh to Zero Braking performance: 

 

Tesla Model 3 (Performance AWD, 1,841 kg) - 3.3 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 32–37 metres

MG ZS EV (1,570 kg) - 8.5 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 35–40 metres.

BYD Seal (Performance AWD, 2,150 kg) - 3.6 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 36–42 metres 

Kia EV5 Earth Exclusive (2,229 kg) - 6.1 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 38–45 metres.

Ford Ranger Raptor V6 (2,415 kg) - 7.9 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 40–50 metres.

Ford Fortuna (2,185 kg)  - 10.0 seconds / Braking Distance: Approximately 50 metres.

 

Body roll performance at 50 kmh 20m radius curve & at 100 kmh with 100m radius curve.

 

Tesla Model 3: 1–3° / 1.5–2°

BYD Seal: 2–4° / 2–3°

Kia EV5 Earth Exclusive: 4–6° / 3–4°

MG ZS EV: 5–7° / 4–5°

Ford Ranger Raptor V6: 7–10° / 6–8°

Ford Fortuna: 5–7° / 3–5°

 

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

BYD describe the Seal as a Sports Saloon and it’s an incredibly fun car to drive.

 

It has a very low center of gravity, almost perfect 50/50 weight distribution with a 55% bias on power to the rear wheels.

 

The car is set up to be incredibly safe in normal driving with a slight oversteer under a lot of power.

 

With instantaneous torque available it makes the car both appealing to a careful driver but with immense power and superb handling for those who want to push it the limit or drift it round corners. Not on the public highway obviously.

 

 

[MartinBangkok]

40 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Unless you are trying to stop ... heavier takes longer = not as safe

 

MG ZS EV ... 1570 kg

Raptor v6 ... 2415 kg

So if we crash head to head you are safer?

And the weight of my car is not what you say, but exactly the double of your's: Gross vehicle mass (GVM): 3,130 kg

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, MartinBangkok said:

So if we crash head to head you are safer?

And the weight of my car is not what you say, but exactly the double of your's: Gross vehicle mass (GVM): 3,130 kg

 

Now, if you going to adjust the figures to suit your bias, adjust them both - GMV of MG ZS EV is 2070 kg.

Also, you are 'cherry picking' a singular event to suit your bias and ignoring all other possibilities in which an accident can occur.

 

Now, in this imaginary head-on collision - in your ranger, If you try and swerve out of the way... you are lot more unsafe because of the instability of a higher pickup, suspension etc, more unresponsive because of the excessive weight, you're ready starting to roll with a strong swerve (think moose test).

 

If a lighter more stable car tries to swerve out of the way, there is better road holding less chance of a loss of control. 

 

You're trying to polish the turd and roll it in glitter - and, while I like the Raptor significantly more than any MG - its not a safer car...    Unless of course, as you pointed out you are in one of the 5% of head on collisions and not 56% of incidents involving overturning and skidding... 

 

Common Accident Types (Figures from The Nation)

- Overturning or Skidding on Straight Roads: 43%

- Overturning or Skidding on Curved Roads: 13%

- Rear-End Collisions: 31%

- Head-On Collisions: 5%

- Collisions with Traffic Barriers: 4%

- Intersection Crashes: 2%

- Pedestrian Accidents: 2%

 

Types of vehicles in accidents:

- Pickups (37%)

- Private and public vehicles (27%)

- Motorcycles (20%)

- Trucks with at least 10 wheels (8%)

- Six-wheel trucks (6%)

- Vans (2%)

 

 

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

53 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Now, if you going to adjust the figures to suit your bias, adjust them both - GMV of MG ZS EV is 2070 kg.

Also, you are 'cherry picking' a singular event to suit your bias and ignoring all other possibilities in which an accident can occur.

 

Now, in this imaginary head-on collision - in your ranger, If you try and swerve out of the way... you are lot more unsafe because of the instability of a higher pickup, suspension etc, more unresponsive because of the excessive weight, you're ready starting to roll with a strong swerve (think moose test).

 

If a lighter more stable car tries to swerve out of the way, there is better road holding less chance of a loss of control. 

 

You're trying to polish the turd and roll it in glitter - and, while I like the Raptor significantly more than any MG - its not a safer car...    Unless of course, as you pointed out you are in one of the 5% of head on collisions and not 56% of incidents involving overturning and skidding... 

 

Common Accident Types (Figures from The Nation)

- Overturning or Skidding on Straight Roads: 43%

- Overturning or Skidding on Curved Roads: 13%

- Rear-End Collisions: 31%

- Head-On Collisions: 5%

- Collisions with Traffic Barriers: 4%

- Intersection Crashes: 2%

- Pedestrian Accidents: 2%

 

Types of vehicles in accidents:

- Pickups (37%)

- Private and public vehicles (27%)

- Motorcycles (20%)

- Trucks with at least 10 wheels (8%)

- Six-wheel trucks (6%)

- Vans (2%)

Since I drive the speed limit, while someone else might drive his Raptor like an irresponsible teenager, then I reckon, me & mine are a lot safer.

 

Machines don't kill people, people kill people