Visa exemption VS retirement visa

[dani305]

hi

I am 55 years old, and in the last 6 months I entered Thailand 3 times as a tourist using the 60 days  visa exemption ,I stayed every time  in Thailand for 45 days and then went back to my country for 30 days  and I intend to keep this schedule  next year .till now rented a condo ,opened bank account without any problems.

recently i was offered by an agent to arrange a retirement visa for 30,000 baht (15 months) and I am wondering,  will this visa give me any benefit over the visa exemption or should I just continue using the visa exemption plan?

[steve187]

if you only require 45 days each visit stick with the VE entry

once you use an agent you are stuck with them, why line an agents pocket

[DrJack54]

49 minutes ago, dani305 said:

,I stayed every time  in Thailand for 45 days and then went back to my country for 30 days  and I intend to keep this schedule  next year

That's going to be approx 5 cycles per year.

The saving grace is the 30 days between visits.

You will be aware of issue if immigration at airport starts warning you. 

As you are 50+ immigration is aware you have option of non O retirement and subsequent extensions. 

Expect them to eventually "suggest" visa option

[Caldera]

7 minutes ago, steve187 said:

if you only require 45 days each visit stick with the VE entry

 

Immigration won't tolerate such a "45 days in, 30 days out" pattern of visa exempt visits forever.

 

As the OP intends to spend a lot of time in Thailand, going the retirement route would make sense. 

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, steve187 said:

once you use an agent you are stuck with them, why line an agents pocket

 

  This false information gets repeated on here a lot.  

 

  I obtained my initial non-O for purposes of retirement using an agent.  After that, I switched to the income method - no agent required. 

 

  Perhaps it depends upon which immigration office one visits but it's certainly not gospel that "once you use an agent, you must keep using an agent."

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

I obtained my initial non-O for purposes of retirement using an agent.  After that, I switched to the income method - no agent required. 

 Normally that would not be the case.

I'm in process of changing from money in bank to income method retirement.

Most recent extension I discussed this with the boss io (at CW) 

She advised (made it very clear) to show 12 months of transfers AND maintain the 800k for next 3 months. 

I always suggest that if you want to quit using agent then exit Thailand without reentry permit and start over

[steve187]

2 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Immigration won't tolerate such a "45 days in, 30 days out" pattern of visa exempt visits forever.

 

As the OP intends to spend a lot of time in Thailand, going the retirement route would make sense. 

a friend has been doing VE entry every other month for years month on month off. did the op say for ever or is that a wild guess

 

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  This false information gets repeated on here a lot.  

 

  I obtained my initial non-O for purposes of retirement using an agent.  After that, I switched to the income method - no agent required. 

 

  Perhaps it depends upon which immigration office one visits but it's certainly not gospel that "once you use an agent, you must keep using an agent."

if they provide the 800,000thb, (at a price of 30,000thb i would have a calculated guess that is the case with the OP) how do you get around some of the money being in the bank all year round, 2 months before, 3 months after before dropping to 400,000thb until 2 months before, they do check with non agent applications

[dani305]

7 hours ago, Caldera said:

 

Immigration won't tolerate such a "45 days in, 30 days out" pattern of visa exempt visits forever.

 

As the OP intends to spend a lot of time in Thailand, going the retirement route would make sense. 

i do understand that in the long run the retirement visa is my main option,  but since visa exemption is free for now, while the retirement visa will cost 2000 baht per month (30000 divided to 15 months) i am trying to understand why not postpone this "fine"

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, dani305 said:

the retirement visa will cost 2000 baht per month (30000 divided to 15 months) i am trying to understand why not postpone this "fine"

The 30k is for initial non O (90 day stamp) and 12 month extension.

Hence 15 months.

In subsequent years ongoing extensions ~ 15k .

The payment for the non O is a once off fee. 

You would also need a multi reentry permit 4k

Where in Thailand are you located. 

[Caldera]

2 minutes ago, dani305 said:

i do understand that in the long run the retirement visa is my main option,  but since visa exemption is free for now, while the retirement visa will cost 2000 baht per month (30000 divided to 15 months) i am trying to understand why not postpone this "fine"

 

Most likely they'd warn you before denying you entry outright, so you could take the wait and see approach. How long you'll get away with it is anyone's guess - there's no official limit and reports are all over the place.

 

What works in your favor is that you return to your home country instead of just bouncing around the region. What doesn't work in your favor is that you spend more time in Thailand than outside. 

[TheAppletons]

14 minutes ago, steve187 said:

if they provide the 800,000thb, (at a price of 30,000thb i would have a calculated guess that is the case with the OP) how do you get around some of the money being in the bank all year round, 2 months before, 3 months after before dropping to 400,000thb until 2 months before, they do check with non agent applications

 

  I don't really know the answer to that but - my guess - is that my initial non-O was obtained using an agent in Pattaya and I renewed said non-O using the income method in Chiang Mai, fifteen months later.

 

  No one said a word about 800K or 400K.  The only months that came into question were the 15 months' of bank statements required for that first renewal (normally 12 months but.....reasons.)

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

I don't really know the answer to that but - my guess - is that my initial non-O was obtained using an agent in Pattaya and I renewed said non-O using the income method in Chiang Mai, fifteen months later.

The non O provided a 90 day stamp.

Agents can also obtain the 12 month extension = 15 months..

You did not "renew non O" in CM using income method.

You obtained another 12 month extension to your permission of stay using income method.

 

Why immigration did not check your bank book back over previous 12 months I cannot understand.

You were lucky. 

[pub2022]

54 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

 Normally that would not be the case.

I'm in process of changing from money in bank to income method retirement.

Most recent extension I discussed this with the boss io (at CW) 

She advised (made it very clear) to show 12 months of transfers AND maintain the 800k for next 3 months. 

I always suggest that if you want to quit using agent then exit Thailand without reentry permit and start over

If you have a re-entry permit and, for any reason, want to start new all over again, you have to leave the country and come back (visa exempt) the day after your permission to stay expires, correct?

For example, if my permission to stay expires on Dec 12th, I leave on 12th and come back on Dec 13th or later, right? If I come back on Dec12th, will my re-entry permit still be valid?

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, pub2022 said:

For example, if my permission to stay expires on Dec 12th, I leave on 12th and come back on Dec 13th or later, right? If I come back on Dec12th, will my re-entry permit still be valid?

What you outlined would work.

Personally I wouldn't exit last day also would most likely make mini holiday. 

However your plan would work.

[bigt3116]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Why immigration did not check your bank book back over previous 12 months I cannot understand.

You were lucky. 

 

Maybe he did the change prior to 2020 , before the new rules came in?

[steve187]

On 12/11/2024 at 3:11 PM, dani305 said:

i do understand that in the long run the retirement visa is my main option,  but since visa exemption is free for now, while the retirement visa will cost 2000 baht per month (30000 divided to 15 months) i am trying to understand why not postpone this "fine"

When it becomes time for the 'retirement' route,  i would obtain the non imm O visa in home country and if you must use an agent for the yearly extension, that can be done so i'm told for less than 15,000thb in Pattaya

[zzzzz]

On 12/11/2024 at 3:16 PM, DrJack54 said:

The 30k is for initial non O (90 day stamp) and 12 month extension.

Hence 15 months.

In subsequent years ongoing extensions ~ 15k .

The payment for the non O is a once off fee. 

You would also need a multi reentry permit 4k

Where in Thailand are you located. 

15,000?  (  pattaya 12,500-13,000)  others 18-25,000/12 month extension

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

15,000?  (  pattaya 12,500-13,000)  others 18-25,000/12 month extension

Your point.

My post was to clarify a poster who did not understand initial cost for non O + 12 month extension.

 

Ongoing extensions (yes in Pattaya) min 12,500 (Maneerat) or bit more ~15k some other agents in Pattaya.

I'm aware of agent in Bangkok that obtains stamps at CW 17k .

You need to attend immigration with agent.

Same as at Jomitien. 

[KhunLA]

One main hurdle done, OP states having a bank account. so simply start depositing the 65k into it.   Unless OP doesn't have the funds to do so.   Would think multiple trips start to add up cost wise.  

 

OP doesn't appear to be skint, if able to travel that much.  At worst, keep doing the VE, and deposit till 800k in account, or Imm stops allowing VE.

 

Not really rocket science.  Not fan of agent use.   Does OP even want to be in TH most of the year ?

[zzzzz]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Your point.

My post was to clarify a poster who did not understand initial cost for non O + 12 month extension.

 

Ongoing extensions (yes in Pattaya) min 12,500 (Maneerat) or bit more ~15k some other agents in Pattaya.

I'm aware of agent in Bangkok that obtains stamps at CW 17k .

You need to attend immigration with agent.

Same as at Jomitien. 

not all agents do you need visit immigration with agent
Thai visa centre is one

[DrJack54]

21 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

not all agents do you need visit immigration with agent

Did not say they do.

Some passports are stamped in another provience.

The 12,500 you posted is Maneerat and you attend Jomitien. 

 

[dani305]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

One main hurdle done, OP states having a bank account. so simply start depositing the 65k into it.   Unless OP doesn't have the funds to do so.   Would think multiple trips start to add up cost wise.  

 

OP doesn't appear to be skint, if able to travel that much.  At worst, keep doing the VE, and deposit till 800k in account, or Imm stops allowing VE.

 

Not really rocket science.  Not fan of agent use.   Does OP even want to be in TH most of the year ?

i can not prove a income of 65000 baht per month.
although i am able to deposit the 800000 baht, i prefer using this sum to generate additional income
instead of just "parking" it in a Thai bank.
the 30000 baht offer by the agent  included   taking care of the 800000 baht demand by him self.

 

i calculated again the time i am spending in thailand. my exact schedule is
entering thailand for 28 days,
exiting thailand to Cambodia for 10-14 days 
coming back to thailand for 7-10 days (2 times by land border ,  rest of times by flight)
going back to my country for 30 days .
so in a 5 cycles per year i would enter and exit thailand 8-10 times
and stay a total of 170-200 days in thailand every year. 

 

my biggest concern is that the border control  will tell me that they will not approve me entering again to thailand and instead require me to  apply for the retirement visa in the thai embassy in my country ,and  as i understood from reading in this forum, if you apply for retirement visa when you are outside of thailand
it is required to prove you have a health insurance policy which might be a little problematic for me  to do right now, because of my schedule  its easier to do just  use a travel insurance. 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, dani305 said:

if you apply for retirement visa when you are outside of thailand
it is required to prove you have a health insurance policy which might be a little problematic for me  to do right now, because of my schedule  its easier to do just  use a travel insurance.

The Non O-A is sometimes referred to as "retirement visa" and yes that requires insurance. 

A Non O retirement does not require insurance for the non O application nor for the 12 month extensions. 

 

Reading your travel pattern I don't see necessity for visa option.

Immigration tend to look at folk that are living in Thailand doing back to back visa exempt entries especially with 30 day extensions and very little time spent out of Thailand. 

 

You mention ....."and stay a total of 170-200 days in thailand every year. "

 

Hardly a need for Non O retirement+ extensions.

 

[G_Money]

On 12/11/2024 at 3:08 PM, DrJack54 said:

 Normally that would not be the case.

I'm in process of changing from money in bank to income method retirement.

Most recent extension I discussed this with the boss io (at CW) 

She advised (made it very clear) to show 12 months of transfers AND maintain the 800k for next 3 months. 

I always suggest that if you want to quit using agent then exit Thailand without reentry permit and start over

In Jomtien this year it was 15 months of monthly transfers.  Last year was 12.

 

I had to provide 15 months.

 

Don’t know if it’s just a local requirement or not.  

[steve187]

On 12/13/2024 at 8:06 AM, zzzzz said:

15,000?  (  pattaya 12,500-13,000)  others 18-25,000/12 month extension

so less than 15,000 then , as i posted. Agents, I avoid them like the plague, so a good guess