Is Earth round or flat ?

[Digitalbanana]

29 minutes ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

What a question, 500 years after Maegellan sailed around, 100 years after flights around the world and a 55 years after seing it from the Moon. 

Have you seen who was elected POTUS at the last election?

[dinsdale]

On 12/23/2024 at 4:13 PM, Skeptic7 said:

I raised that question over 5 years ago...

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1097038-poll-god-beliefyes-or-no/

Cheers. I linked and had a look. IMHO religion is the greatest crime against humanity and for me it isn't all the social control and killing it's the brainwashing of children from birth to believe in something that doesn't exist to perpetuate the myth generationally that's the greatest crime. 

[JamesPhuket10]

4 hours ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

What a question, 500 years after Maegellan sailed around, 100 years after flights around the world and a 55 years after seing it from the Moon. 

 

Ah, but all the things you mention never happened or were just PhotoShopped. 🤣

[TedG]

[Stiddle Mump]

3 minutes ago, TedG said:

I'm not so sure the earth is as it's depicted in this image. Photoshopped for sure.

 

Where does this 'squareness' come from? Think it's nonsense.

[TedG]

3 minutes ago, Stiddle Mump said:

I'm not so sure the earth is as it's depicted in this image. Photoshopped for sure.

 

Where does this 'squareness' come from? Think it's nonsense.

The Internet is never wrong. 

[rattlesnake]

15 minutes ago, TedG said:

 

I concur.

 

 

[rattlesnake]

7 hours ago, PuiPuiHarry said:

What a question, 500 years after Maegellan sailed around, 100 years after flights around the world and a 55 years after seing it from the Moon. 

 

Magellan circumnavigated on an East-West trajectory. Nobody has ever circumnavigated on a North-South trajectory (because it is impossible to do on a level plane).

 

[parallelman]

10 hours ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Magellan circumnavigated on an East-West trajectory. Nobody has ever circumnavigated on a North-South trajectory (because it is impossible to do on a level plane).

 

https://flatearth.ws/polar-circumnav

[rattlesnake]

3 hours ago, parallelman said:

https://flatearth.ws/polar-circumnav

 

Research these purported feats and you will see that none of them actually correspond to what is claimed. This is why it is so important to think critically, independently and always double-check information.

 

[parallelman]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

 

Research these purported feats and you will see that none of them actually correspond to what is claimed. This is why it is so important to think critically, independently and always double-check information.

 

Oh dear, clutching at straws. The Earth is a spheroid and all the FE's are striving and arguing among themselves after the 24 hour Sun debunked flat earth (which FE's said coundn't happen) Get over it.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

This is why it is so important to think critically,

 

Never a truer word spoken... 

 

1 hour ago, rattlesnake said:

independently

 

You took this part too far....

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, parallelman said:

Oh dear, clutching at straws. The Earth is a spheroid and all the FE's are striving and arguing among themselves after the 24 hour Sun debunked flat earth (which FE's said coundn't happen) Get over it.

 

There is no such thing as "the FEs" as a monolitic entity, there are all types of individuals who challenge the heliocentric model, with various levels of motive and relevance.

 

You now know that North-South travel has never happened, you haven't completely lost your time.

[parallelman]

5 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

There is no such thing as "the FEs" as a monolitic entity, there are all types of individuals who challenge the heliocentric model, with various levels of motive and relevance.

 

You now know that North-South travel has never happened, you haven't completely lost your time.

Yes I think I have lost time...replying to to you. Open your eyes and ears. Dave Weiss, one leading FE YOUTUBER, stated categorically that a 24 hour couldn't happen on a Flat Earth. And yes I know about the diverse ideas within the cult but ultimately 'it's a flat Earth'. Jeran Campanella, one of the FE's who went on the Antarctic trip Sun has admitted he was wrong and that there is a 24 hour Sun. He has left the FE cult, received many insults etc. but he now knows that the Earth isn't flat. It is you who needs to question and start thinking with an open mind. You are missing so much wonder living in a FE Closet.

[rattlesnake]

4 minutes ago, parallelman said:

Yes I think I have lost time...replying to to you. Open your eyes and ears. Dave Weiss, one leading FE YOUTUBER, stated categorically that a 24 hour couldn't happen on a Flat Earth. And yes I know about the diverse ideas within the cult but ultimately 'it's a flat Earth'. Jeran Campanella, one of the FE's who went on the Antarctic trip Sun has admitted he was wrong and that there is a 24 hour Sun. He has left the FE cult, received many insults etc. but he now knows that the Earth isn't flat. It is you who needs to question and start thinking with an open mind. You are missing so much wonder living in a FE Closet.

 

One of the defining characteristics of a cult is hostility, by the cultists and directed at the individuals who break away from the cult. The 16 pages of this thread are an unequivocal illustration of this principle.

 

I respect your belief in heliocentrism and understand where you are coming from.

 

Dave Weiss is a human being with all the flaws that entails. I am sure he has said and done a lot of stupid things.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

One of the defining characteristics of a cult is hostility, by the cultists and directed at the individuals who break away from the cult. The 16 pages of this thread are an unequivocal illustration of this principle.

 

I respect your belief in heliocentrism and understand where you are coming from.

 

Dave Weiss is a human being with all the flaws that entails. I am sure he has said and done a lot of stupid things.

 

Your ability to sustain a well-mannered discussion is commendable and reflects a respectful approach to dialogue.

 

However, your assertion implies that cults are inherently hostile, particularly toward those who depart, and that this conversation serves as an example of such behaviour.

 

In forming this analysis, you overlook a crucial factor: people tend to have little patience for sheer absurdity. Hostility in discourse often arises from frustration rather than dogmatic allegiance, and this does not render the heliocentric model cult-like in any sense.

 

 

Ultimately, debating someone who questions the heliocentric model (specific to our solar system) is an exercise in futility, as the argument is inherently asymmetrical. Science is grounded in falsifiable evidence, whereas conspiracy-driven thinking thrives on beliefs that evade falsification. When one side disregards empirical data, logical reasoning inevitably collapses into an unending cycle of denial and misinterpretation.

[rattlesnake]

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Your ability to sustain a well-mannered discussion is commendable and reflects a respectful approach to dialogue.

 

However, your assertion implies that cults are inherently hostile, particularly toward those who depart, and that this conversation serves as an example of such behaviour.

 

In forming this analysis, you overlook a crucial factor: people tend to have little patience for sheer absurdity. Hostility in discourse often arises from frustration rather than dogmatic allegiance, and this does not render the heliocentric model cult-like in any sense.

 

 

Ultimately, debating someone who questions the heliocentric model (specific to our solar system) is an exercise in futility, as the argument is inherently asymmetrical. Science is grounded in falsifiable evidence, whereas conspiracy-driven thinking thrives on beliefs that evade falsification. When one side disregards empirical data, logical reasoning inevitably collapses into an unending cycle of denial and misinterpretation.

 

I consider myself to be honest, and do not have an antagonistic approach to debates, i.e. I am not here to win and will readily admit I am wrong if it is unequivocally demonstrated.

 

My previous interlocutor, who posited that North-South circumnavigation had demonstrably taken place, did not acknowledge his mistake. Of course, if it was not a mistake, I will gladly look at evidence in this respect and adjust my perspective if required.

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

I consider myself to be honest, and do not have an antagonistic approach to debates, i.e. I am not here to win and will readily admit I am wrong if it is unequivocally demonstrated.

 

My previous interlocutor, who posited that North-South circumnavigation had demonstrably taken place, did not acknowledge his mistake. Of course, if it was not a mistake, I will gladly look at evidence in this respect and adjust my perspective if required.

 

 

Sir Ranulph Fiennes & Charles Burton (1979-1982) – The Transglobe Expedition

 - This is the first and only surface circumnavigation of the globe via both poles.

- They traveled entirely over land and sea, using boats, sledges, and vehicles.

- Route: UK → Sahara → South Africa → Antarctica (South Pole) → Pacific → North America → Arctic (North Pole) → Europe → UK.

 

Steve Fossett (2006) – Solo Flight

- The first solo North-South circumnavigation by aircraft.

- He flew a specially designed GlobalFlyer aircraft, crossing both poles.

 

Pan Am Flight 50 (1977)

Aircraft: Boeing 747SPsps-aviation.com

Details: To commemorate Pan American World Airways' 50th anniversary, Flight 50 completed a polar circumnavigation, starting and ending in San Francisco. The journey included stops in London, Cape Town, and Auckland, achieving the feat in 54 hours, 7 minutes, and 12 seconds.

 

TAG Transpolar08 Flight (2008)

Details: This mission set a speed record for circumnavigating the Earth via both poles, with an average speed of 822.8 km/h. The route began and ended in Farnborough, England, passing through the North Pole, Whitehorse (Canada), Majuro (Marshall Islands), Christchurch (New Zealand), the South Pole, Punta Arenas (Chile), and Sal (Cape Verde).

 

One More Orbit Mission (2019)

Aircraft: Gulfstream G650ERen.wikipedia.org+4reddit.com+4flatearth.ws+4

Details: Led by former NASA astronaut Terry Virts and British aviator Hamish Harding, this mission commemorated the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 Moon landing. The team set a new world record for the fastest circumnavigation via both poles, completing the journey in 46 hours, 40 minutes, and 22 seconds, with an average speed of 465 knots (861 km/h). The route started and ended at NASA's Kennedy Space Center, passing over the North Pole, Nur-Sultan (Kazakhstan), Mauritius, the South Pole, and Punta Arenas (Chile).

 

Robert DeLaurentis' Polar Circumnavigation (2019-2020)

Aircraft: Turbine Commander 900 ("Citizen of the World")en.wikipedia.org

Details: Pilot Robert DeLaurentis completed a polar circumnavigation, flying over both the South and North Poles. His journey began in November 2019 and concluded in August 2020, marking the first use of biofuels over both poles and setting records for distance and speed in a twin-engine turboprop.

 

 

 

Again: Debating a heliocentric denier is like arguing with someone who insists the Earth is flat while using GPS, satellites, and weather forecasts, all products of the very science they reject. When one side clings to belief over evidence, reason becomes as futile as explaining gravity to someone who denies they’re standing on the ground.

[rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

Sir Ranulph Fiennes & Charles Burton (1979-1982) – The Transglobe Expedition

 - This is the first and only surface circumnavigation of the globe via both poles.

- They traveled entirely over land and sea, using boats, sledges, and vehicles.

- Route: UK → Sahara → South Africa → Antarctica (South Pole) → Pacific → North America → Arctic (North Pole) → Europe → UK.

 

Steve Fossett (2006) – Solo Flight

- The first solo North-South circumnavigation by aircraft.

- He flew a specially designed GlobalFlyer aircraft, crossing both poles.

 

Pan Am Flight 50 (1977)

Aircraft: Boeing 747SPsps-aviation.com

Details: To commemorate Pan American World Airways' 50th anniversary, Flight 50 completed a polar circumnavigation, starting and ending in San Francisco. The journey included stops in London, Cape Town, and Auckland, achieving the feat in 54 hours, 7 minutes, and 12 seconds.

 

TAG Transpolar08 Flight (2008)

Details: This mission set a speed record for circumnavigating the Earth via both poles, with an average speed of 822.8 km/h. The route began and ended in Farnborough, England, passing through the North Pole, Whitehorse (Canada), Majuro (Marshall Islands), Christchurch (New Zealand), the South Pole, Punta Arenas (Chile), and Sal (Cape Verde).

 

One More Orbit Mission (2019)

Aircraft: Gulfstream G650ERen.wikipedia.org+4reddit.com+4flatearth.ws+4

Details: Led by former NASA astronaut Terry Virts and British aviator Hamish Harding, this mission commemorated the 50th anniversary of the Apollo 11 Moon landing. The team set a new world record for the fastest circumnavigation via both poles, completing the journey in 46 hours, 40 minutes, and 22 seconds, with an average speed of 465 knots (861 km/h). The route started and ended at NASA's Kennedy Space Center, passing over the North Pole, Nur-Sultan (Kazakhstan), Mauritius, the South Pole, and Punta Arenas (Chile).

 

Robert DeLaurentis' Polar Circumnavigation (2019-2020)

Aircraft: Turbine Commander 900 ("Citizen of the World")en.wikipedia.org

Details: Pilot Robert DeLaurentis completed a polar circumnavigation, flying over both the South and North Poles. His journey began in November 2019 and concluded in August 2020, marking the first use of biofuels over both poles and setting records for distance and speed in a twin-engine turboprop.

 

 

 

Again: Debating a heliocentric denier is like arguing with someone who insists the Earth is flat while using GPS, satellites, and weather forecasts, all products of the very science they reject. When one side clings to belief over evidence, reason becomes as futile as explaining gravity to someone who denies they’re standing on the ground.

 

This is the same list given to me by parallelman. By "unequivocally demonstrated", I did mean more than sporadic and evasive accounts of "near-impossible expeditions", with little or no compelling footage, especially over the Antarctic.

 

Globe-skepticism does not preclude one from validating the reality of GPS'. It means one does not subscribe to the model according to which satellites orbit a globe.

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

 

This is the same list given to me by parallelman. By "unequivocally demonstrated", I did mean more than sporadic and evasive accounts of "near-impossible expeditions", with little or no compelling footage, especially over the Antarctic.

 

Globe-skepticism does not preclude one from validating the reality of GPS'. It means one does not subscribe to the model according to which satellites orbit a globe.

 

 

As mentioned, entering debate with a heliocentric denier enters the realms of preposterousness, ultimately 'just time wasting'... Its akin to arguing with someone who insists that planes cannot fly, while cruising at 35,000 feet.

 

The very premise is absurd. You demand more than "sporadic accounts".... which, incidentally, are not evasive but simply rare. Rare in the same way it would be uncommon to haul a 100-tonne weight to the edge of the atmosphere and drop it, merely to demonstrate gravitational pull - the reasons are obviously cost and more than that the very common sense of 'there's just no point' or need to prove the obvious'...

 

At a certain point, the discussion descends into sheer absurdity, like disputing the existence of oxygen while effortlessly inhaling it.

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

Real-time orbiting satellite footage of Earth, accessible 24/7 by the public on a dedicated website. That would settle matters and bring Flat-Earthers back to reason. One would think we would have the required technological means to do so by now. Apparently not…

[Cameroni]

What about the blue marble picture? Not round?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/blue-marble-photo-50th-anniversary-snap-scn/index.html

 

[rattlesnake]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 

As mentioned, entering debate with a heliocentric denier enters the realms of preposterousness, ultimately 'just time wasting'... Its akin to arguing with someone who insists that planes cannot fly, while cruising at 35,000 feet.

 

The very premise is absurd. You demand more than "sporadic accounts".... which, incidentally, are not evasive but simply rare. Rare in the same way it would be uncommon to haul a 100-tonne weight to the edge of the atmosphere and drop it, merely to demonstrate gravitational pull - the reasons are obviously cost and more than that the very common sense of 'there's just no point' or need to prove the obvious'...

 

At a certain point, the discussion descends into sheer absurdity, like disputing the existence of oxygen while effortlessly inhaling it.

 

 

 

 

You are rationalising according to your angle, which is normal and expected. But your comparisons are invalid as the fact that planes fly is visible and verifiable by every human on this planet. Heliocentrism isn't, c.f. the quotes by scientists I posted earlier in the thread.

[rattlesnake]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

What about the blue marble picture? Not round?

 

https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/blue-marble-photo-50th-anniversary-snap-scn/index.html

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Real-time orbiting satellite footage of Earth, accessible 24/7 by the public on a dedicated website. That would settle matters and bring Flat-Earthers back to reason. One would think we would have the required technological means to do so by now. Apparently not…

 

Sen’s 4K Video Cameras on the ISS

 

 

 

This is a 4k Camera pointed straight down at earth capturing live footage... 

I'm quite certain you will find a technicality to suggest that this isn't the proof you were looking for.

[richard_smith237]

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

You are rationalising according to your angle, which is normal and expected. But your comparisons are invalid as the fact that planes fly is visible and verifiable by every human on this planet.

 

Au contraire...  Plane are only verifiable by those who have been on them... 

For anyone else they something with wings that disappear out of sight...

 

An extreme example, yes, but...   Your 'belief' is just as profound, arguing that high altitude pilots, astronauts, NASA, too numerous physicists to mention are all in on some sort of conspiracy or all mistaken... 

 

9 minutes ago, rattlesnake said:

Heliocentrism isn't, c.f. the quotes by scientists I posted earlier in the thread.

 

[rattlesnake]

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Sen’s 4K Video Cameras on the ISS

 

 

 

This is a 4k Camera pointed straight down at earth capturing live footage... 

I'm quite certain you will find a technicality to suggest that this isn't the proof you were looking for.

 

I was going to edit my post to say "please no ISS videos" 

 

The CGI is obvious. There are a lot of examples of all sorts, here are a couple of examples from the "livestream":

 

Fake star background overlapping the Earth (from 15:05):

 

 

 

Playback loop glitch:

 

 

 

[rattlesnake]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Au contraire...  Plane are only verifiable by those who have been on them... 

For anyone else they something with wings that disappear out of sight...

 

An extreme example, yes, but...   Your 'belief' is just as profound, arguing that high altitude pilots, astronauts, NASA, too numerous physicists to mention are all in on some sort of conspiracy or all mistaken... 

 

 

 

There are lots of pilots who are adamant the Earth is flat, I posted some testimonies in this thread.

[richard_smith237]

Just now, rattlesnake said:

There are lots of pilots who are adamant the Earth is flat, I posted some testimonies in this thread.

 

Are these individuals actually commercial airline pilots?

 

I’d be seriously concerned about boarding a plane knowing the pilot holds such beliefs. A fundamental misunderstanding of basic scientific principles raises doubts about their ability to think critically—an essential skill when operating a complex aircraft, especially in an emergency.

 

I assume you opted for a boat to Thailand for similar reasons, that contradict basic scientific principles as you understand them. 

[rattlesnake]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Are these individuals actually commercial airline pilots?

 

I’d be seriously concerned about boarding a plane knowing the pilot holds such beliefs. A fundamental misunderstanding of basic scientific principles raises doubts about their ability to think critically—an essential skill when operating a complex aircraft, especially in an emergency.

 

I assume you opted for a boat to Thailand for similar reasons, that contradict basic scientific principles as you understand them. 

 

Here are 19. An interesting 14 minutes, regardless of what you ultimately conclude. Also bear in mind there are lots more such testimonies, I have a whole collection of them.

 

I have no problems with flying with pilots who believe the globe theory (though I suspect most don't and just go along for obvious psychological reasons, group effect, peer pressure…), it doesn't stop them from doing what they are supposed to do.