Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[oldcpu]

5 minutes ago, Liquorice said:

And if they have to come get you, the penalties are 200,000 BHT fine, 1 year imprisonment, or both - then you can leave Thailand.

 I would encourage anyone who is clearly required to file a Thai tax return, to file one.

 

Having type that,  my view is that unless the Thai government has another (non-tax related) reason  to evict one from the country, there is more likely to be just the government fining one some money , and after the fine is paid 'all is forgiven'.  

 

However if the government is looking for an excuse, to go after an individual, then not filing/paying taxes can always be a good excuse that government's will 'hang their hat' on and proceed with eviction or some imprisonment.

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

However if the government is looking for an excuse, to go after an individual, then not filing/paying taxes can always be a good excuse that government's will 'hang their hat' on.

 

"Je Suis Al Capone"

[EVENKEEL]

9 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Gosh, I wonder who you're talking about? It can't be me because I averaged only 124 posts a month since I joined, that's lower than even YOU who has made 132 posts since joining, hmmm, a mystery!

You must be so very proud.

[Everyman]

On 1/5/2025 at 6:06 PM, JimGant said:

Oh, barf burgers. I've never felt discriminated against. Did I ever have to pay double to enter a Thai national park? Dunno. But if I did, it was well less than entering Yosemite Park in the US. That I pay more than the ordinary Thai citizen -- is kinda like I pay more as a rich American in Medicare premiums, than an ordinary American ('cause I'm richer, as determined by my tax return). Progressive taxation brackets explains the whole social situation.

 

Probably good you're gone. You'd certainly be hard to live next door to, being so paranoid about your existence in Thailand.

 

You started out about Thai taxation, and that you had to pay it. Not sure where you're from -- but, yeah, maybe if from an EU country, you now have to pay someone (Thailand), when otherwise you lived tax free in the world. Welcome to the 21st century -- where your taxes are now in the country whose potholes you now pay to fix. For us Yanks, no change in our total tax picture (more to Thailand, less to the US) -- except for those few living on long term cap gains. Thus, for most Yanks, the new tax situation is a non player.

 

No taxes, no discrimination, no Thai-like irritants. Care to say where you now live?

 

Anyway, glad you're now happy, and were flexible enough to leave Thailand. For many of us here, we're settled in, burned our bridges to home country, and really have no perception of where else to move. Fortunately, for most of us, our worldwide total tax bill situation hasn't changed; we don't worry about paying 200 vice 100 baht to enter a park; and the irritants you mention (well over exaggerated) are well overcome by the hospitality of the Thai people.

 

The existence of Yosemite Park justifies price discrimination in Thailand? How is that a sane thought? 

[Sheist]

22 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Sure. That is what the told me last February, exept only 1 source of income was exempt, Gov Pension, my private pension should ( in theory anyway ) have been taxable.

 

At the small local office.

 

 

Well, that is what we all ( including me ) believed. Rocks up today ( Only Gov Pension ) and was told otherwise, at the big Office.

 

Here is her pencilled scribbles to help me fill it

 

 

 

You will notice that she has applied 

 

100,000 Baht deduction for a Pension

 

60,000 Baht deduction for me

 

And some mental withholding tax thing, which by that stage I had lost all interest, so it could be anything.

 

Total tax payable 0

 

That makes no sense.  252k+, what created the 480x43.90?  Did you somehow pay in 252k in withholdings?

[paddypower]

27 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 I would encourage anyone who is clearly required to file a Thai tax return, to file one.

 

Having type that,  my view is that unless the Thai government has another (non-tax related) reason  to evict one from the country, there is more likely to be just the government fining one some money , and after the fine is paid 'all is forgiven'.  

 

However if the government is looking for an excuse, to go after an individual, then not filing/paying taxes can always be a good excuse that government's will 'hang their hat' on and proceed with eviction or some imprisonment.

''older CPA'' here: this is a letter I sent to my tax/audit office today. For what it's worth:

 

'Dear ......I have copy/pasted below, an article about the reporting requirements for the 2024 income tax returns, for Thailand.

I have brought our 2 Canadian pension incomes in to Thailand every month, of 2024. The purpose is to qualify for the Retirement visa extension, which is due for extension on February 12, 2025.

I will leave it for you to use your professional judgement as to what to report, if anything regarding this type of income.

Of course, as you know, we do have a Double Taxation Treaty between Canada and Thailand.

Best regards'

 

[Ben Zioner]

58 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Entirely possible

 

So my next plan might be to complete a PND 91

 

boxes 1,2 with the same figures

 

Boxes 17,19 and 20 with a zero and ask for a TIN to file this, and see what the small office says.

 

At least I'll have a signed and dated PND 91 to also attach to my annual bank statement and P60

Doubt you can do that, with the existing PND 91, as B.7 [sum of B.1 to B.6] must be equal to A.2.

 

This leads me to believe  hope that there will be b.xyz lines (DTA, LTR, active corruptors, etc.)  added to the "new" PND91. Otherwise I just wont file, and wait.

 

[Will B Good]

25 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Doubt you can do that, with the existing PND 91, as B.7 [sum of B.1 to B.6] must be equal to A.2.

 

This leads me to believe  hope that there will be b.xyz lines (DTA, LTR, active corruptors, etc.)  added to the "new" PND91. Otherwise I just wont file, and wait.

 

 

Read that and thought I might have had an ischemic stroke.......5555

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Doubt you can do that, with the existing PND 91, as B.7 [sum of B.1 to B.6] must be equal to A.2.

 

Go back 3 pages and you will see that this is exactly what the lady at the RD Office did.

 

7 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

This leads me to believe  hope that there will be b.xyz lines (DTA, LTR, active corruptors, etc.)  added to the "new" PND91

 

Something I also said on the last couple of pages.

[oldcpu]

12 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Doubt you can do that, with the existing PND 91, as B.7 [sum of B.1 to B.6] must be equal to A.2.

 

This leads me to believe  hope that there will be b.xyz lines (DTA, LTR, active corruptors, etc.)  added to the "new" PND91. Otherwise I just wont file, and wait.

 

 

I tend to agree that in order to better address exemptions such as those noted in DTAs, Royal Decree for LTR, and income/savings from before 1-Jan-2024, it would be useful to have another line/entry under 'exemptions' in the Thai tax form. 

 

Without such entries to list those noted 'exempt' incomes in the Thai tax form, it suggests that such 'exempt' income is instead being treated as not-assessable income, ... and in which case income as such that noted need not be included on a Thai tax return.

 

But I am no tax expert.  My view is to wait for a few years (and not remit money to Thailand)  and see how this 'plays out' (and I am fortunate to have the "luxury" to be able to do that).

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, The Cyclist said:

How do you file electronically without a TIN ?

You don't, of course. So, you'll have to get it at your local TRD -- the same place you said you're going to file a PND 91 -- which, of course, also requires a TIN. Not sure what  point you're trying to make.....?

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

Take the LTR visa for example.  The Royal Decree for the LTR-WP visa holders states that foreign assessable income is tax exempt.  The Royal Decree clearly refers to 'assessable income' and then it states such is 'tax exempt'.  Yet there is no place on the 2023 tax form for such tax exempt assessable income.

You're over thinking this. This just means, as "tax exempt" per Royal Decree -- just don't enter it on your tax return (which, by Royal Decree probably means no tax return filing required, unless you have in-Thailand income).

[The Cyclist]

3 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You don't, of course.

 

So why are you bumping your gums about filing online ?
 

I don't know about you. But if I am going to an RD Office to get a TIN, I'll file at the same time.

 

2 birds with 1 stone and all that good stuff.

[chiang mai]

46 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You must be so very proud.

That I don't follow other members around the site, trolling them? Indeed I am.

[oldcpu]

43 minutes ago, paddypower said:

''older CPA'' here: this is a letter I sent to my tax/audit office today. For what it's worth:

 

'Dear ......I have copy/pasted below, an article about the reporting requirements for the 2024 income tax returns, for Thailand.

I have brought our 2 Canadian pension incomes in to Thailand every month, of 2024. The purpose is to qualify for the Retirement visa extension, which is due for extension on February 12, 2025.

I will leave it for you to use your professional judgement as to what to report, if anything regarding this type of income.

Of course, as you know, we do have a Double Taxation Treaty between Canada and Thailand.

Best regards'

 

 

Article XVIII of the Canadian-Thai Double tax agreement states that "pensions and other similar remunerations ... arising in a Contracting state and paid to a resident of the other Contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned state".

 

I interpret that as meaning  "pensions and other similar remunerations ... arising in Canada and paid to a resident of Thailand shall be taxable only in Canada".

 

Some other words are added to clarify the pension/remuneration source needs to be indeed from Canada.

 

So from what I can read, your obligation is to only pay taxes in Canada on your Canadian sourced pensions.

 

You will have no Thai taxes on that Canadian income (pensions). 

 

I suppose if you also have Thai income over a certain threshold, then maybe you may have to list such Canadian income in a Thai tax return, such that your 'income tax bracket' (given that Canadian income) can be assessed by Thailand in regards to Thai taxes on Thai income.

 

But having typed that, I see no place on the Thai tax forms to adequately cover such a possibility. So maybe there is no need to list such.  I do NOT know.

.

I will be most curious as to any response you get, and if you do get a response, I will also be curious if it is a correct response (as sometimes I think even the RD tax officials can make mistakes).

[parallelman]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:28 AM, Sheryl said:

No English language version

 

No way to declare income that is non-assessable under DTA

Please see message.

[oldcpu]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You're over thinking this. This just means, as "tax exempt" per Royal Decree -- just don't enter it on your tax return (which, by Royal Decree probably means no tax return filing required, unless you have in-Thailand income).

 

The "issue" as I read it, is the translation of the Royal Decree causes an ambiguity.

 

Does the Royal Decree for the LTR visa intend to state for LTR-WP that the "tax law paragraph requiring assessable income be reported for tax" is exempt, or does it mean that just the "assessable income is tax exempt".    (Those are my words - not the exact tax law nor Royal Decree words).

 

There is a difference. Current translations I have read seem to refer to the later and not the former.

 

I understand your interpretation.

 

And I like your interpretation - but I am honest in stating I do not know what is correct.

 

So as a result, given it was easy for me to do (fortunately) , I elected to bring no money into Thailand for the next few years.  Further in this regard, at an unplanned moment of opportunity confirmed with a Phuket RD official that I neither needed to obtain a Thai TIN (in my circumstance) nor file a Thai tax return given I was bringing no money into Thailand.

 

My hope is based on the experience of others, in a few years there will be no ambiguity.

 

Clearly everyone's tax situation is different, and I suggest everyone find what they consider to be the best legally compliant approach for themselves in regards to tax-returns and taxation, optimising such as much as possible to their benefit within the letter of the law.

[parallelman]

On 1/4/2025 at 10:26 AM, bkk6060 said:

They should but say they refuse too?

 

If so, what will be the consequences?

Fines, past audits? Visa rejected?

Jail or mass deportations?

Well I suppose the first thing that the RD has to do is think about how many expats are living in Thailand and how many returns they have received...hmmm, wonder how long that will take? Okay, say the RD decide they are many short which direction will they go to find who has not got a TIN, banks or immigration? Can't see immigration wanting to get involved because the extra workload might be considerable. Since TIN is about money it would seem to me that banks would be obvious step (but then again TIT). I wonder how many years that would take to set up?

[motdaeng]

15 minutes ago, parallelman said:

Can't see immigration wanting to get involved because the extra workload might be considerable. 

 

 that's a good one ....

immigration likes to handle things as difficult as possible ... some additional documents every year ...

many years ago immigration was already demanding a tax clearance ...

immigration is involved to confirm the home address for driver license ... etc

i hope it will not happen, but it would be the easiest way for TRD to enforce the new tax rules ....

[anchadian]

For those of you that like throwing their money away:

 

About an hour ago.

 

 

[parallelman]

17 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

 that's a good one ....

immigration likes to handle things as difficult as possible ... some additional documents every year ...

many years ago immigration was already demanding a tax clearance ...

immigration is involved to confirm the home address for driver license ... etc

i hope it will not happen, but it would be the easiest way for TRD to enforce the new tax rules ....

'Many years ago'? I lived here for 30 years and was never asked for tax clearance.

[motdaeng]

12 minutes ago, parallelman said:

'Many years ago'? I lived here for 30 years and was never asked for tax clearance.

 

if i remember correctly, only a certain group of expats (people who have been working in Thailand ?) had to have a tax clearance before leaving the country ... there are some other an-members who can give you the correct answer ...

[chiang mai]

Just now, motdaeng said:

 

if i remember correctly, only a certain group of expats (people who have been working in Thailand ?) had to have a tax clearance before leaving the country ... they are some other an-members who can give the correct answer ...

Musicians, performers, sportsmen/women and entertainers, primarily, their work is such that they enter the country for a short period, perform, get paid and leave.

[4myr]

3 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Carl turner
 

arl Turner 

From:[email protected]

To:john west

 

Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 12:14 PM

 

 

Hi John, what update are you looking for?

 

If you have transferred or spent foreign sourced income (UK state pension, retirement income) in Thailand, and this is over THB120,000 as a married person, you have to file a tax return.

 

You can use your allowances and deductions, so it’s more of a filing administration job for many people.

 

Essential Tax filing is the most suitable filing service for you.

 

Regards

 

Carl

 Yes no forms available PND 90 and The Income Exemption  and tried the tax office site and yet again went around local authority and stating I do not need to file in my circumstances and apparently  can use a pink id card but is seems no one knows anything!! GRRRRRRRRRRR

 

This is what I call a phishing reply from Carl. With regards to assessability of the income examples he mentioned between brackets he is correct though. 

[parallelman]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

if i remember correctly, only a certain group of expats (people who have been working in Thailand ?) had to have a tax clearance before leaving the country ... there are some other an-members who can give you the correct answer ...

Ah, yes . If an expat is working in Thailand. I was really thinking of retired expats.

[JimGant]

3 hours ago, Everyman said:

The existence of Yosemite Park justifies price discrimination in Thailand? How is that a sane thought? 

More interested in the bottom line, rather than the discrimination aspect. That Thailand, even with price discrimination, is a lot cheaper than comparable services in the US -- is all I care about. I guess I'm not an overly sensitive individual....

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I suppose if you also have Thai income over a certain threshold, then maybe you may have to list such Canadian income in a Thai tax return

Your Canadian DTA exempted income doesn't exist for Thai taxation purposes. Thus, no where, no need to list on a Thai tax return.

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

Without such entries to list those noted 'exempt' incomes in the Thai tax form, it suggests that such 'exempt' income is instead being treated as not-assessable income, ... and in which case income as such that noted need not be included on a Thai tax return.

That is exactly as I understand it.

If it's 'exempt' of tax, then it's not an assessable income and need not be declared.

 

If your remittances are all 'exempt' of tax, then you do not need to file.

[Everyman]

7 minutes ago, JimGant said:

More interested in the bottom line, rather than the discrimination aspect. That Thailand, even with price discrimination, is a lot cheaper than comparable services in the US -- is all I care about. I guess I'm not an overly sensitive individual....

 

It’s not a question of sensitivity. It’s practical. My conception of money isn’t tethered to some far away land. I’ve been in Thailand for more than 20 years, most of them time working and earning a salary in Thai baht. The existence of America doesn’t factor into what I consider expensive, the local economy does. If America sank into the sea like Atlantis, would you pick some other place to anchor your conception of prices? If so, why not pick Thailand? 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

For those of you that like throwing their money away:

 

About an hour ago.

 

What a load of BS. Pay 8000 bt to file a null tax return, 'cause your assessable income exceeds those 120/220k thresholds -- but your TEDA prevents any taxes due. What they don't say is, pay another 7500 bt to get a TIN (my assumption). And, waste half a day plus, if you live in Bangkok, dotting the i's and crossing the t's -- and fighting traffic. Live up country? Not sure how you interface in that situation....

 

So, 8000 bt -- maybe 15,500 bt -- 100% guaranteed cost -- plus, of course, your time. Do nothing, sit back and have a beer, or a round of golf -- and have a 1% chance that TRD will even hear of you, let alone serve you with a 2000 bt fine. No brainer.

 

Yeah, that Integrity guy sure has it right about these illegal charlatans.

 

 

1 hour ago, anchadian said: