Revenue Department boss calls on tax residents in Thailand to file 2024 returns by March 31

[StayinThailand2much]

Just now, jwest10 said:

No forms yet again?????

 

Asking me? I'm not currently in Thailand, and not planning to stay more than 180 days/year for now...

[jwest10]

Just now, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Asking me? I'm not currently in Thailand, and not planning to stay more than 180 days/year for now...

Well anyone as everyone does not know ok

[StayinThailand2much]

On 1/4/2025 at 3:51 AM, Rampant Rabbit said:

no thanks..........

 

Taxing (more of) their own citizens would probably yield way more revenue than reminding 'foreign taxpayers'... Also, how many of the former transfer "income" to Thailand, or do they classify overseas' pensions and transfers as 'income'?

[The Cyclist]

25 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Box 2 is NOT for non assessable remitted income. Here is what it is for:

 

 

 

 

Wow

 

I can read the form, I know what it says.

 

I also know what the lady at the RD Office filled in and posted it on here.

 

So keep sniping away to your hearts content. What you say is of no concern to me. I'll listen to what someone at the RD Office says.

 

Or are you going to astound us all, and tell us that you actually work for the Thai Revenue Department ?

 

 

[The Cyclist]

16 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Define "income"... As usual clear as mud.

 

From the OP

 

Quote

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

 

Why would any type of income not be declarable, for the avoidance and detection of tax evasion / avoidance ?
 

Which is the main of CRS which Thailand joined in March 2023.

[chiang mai]

27 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

 

Define "income"... As usual clear as mud.

Earnings.

[JimGant]

25 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

So keep sniping away to your hearts content. What you say is of no concern to me. I'll listen to what someone at the RD Office says.

And ignore how the PND91 form defines "exempt income?" Certainly the designers of that form have a better grasp on matters than the befuddled TRD clerk you've been dealing with....whose definitions are at odds with the central office.

 

But, hey, knock yourself out. You seem to like the quest you're onto. By the way, the CRS gurus could care less about remittances, just as the FATCA gurus could care less. What your worldwide financial positions are, and their related annual incomes -- is what's of concern. How monies were remitted to those financial accounts has no relevance.

[Antti]

What a <deleted>show. Now more than ever I think max 179 days in TH is the best option. Second best is to just lay low and see how the situation develops. One thing to keep in mind is that Thailand was bullied into joining the CSR, it wasn’t their own aspiration. They dragged their heels for a long time but finally had to do it to prevent their banks being greylisted. Some countries just join these things in name only to get the Western nanny states of their back and never really properly implement them. Hopefully Thailand is one of them.

[Mutt Daeng]

52 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

No forms yet again?????

Not the English versions, but the ones in Thai are here:   https://rd.go.th/65971.html 

[Mises]

18 pages of this nonsense.  If you are stupid enough to voluntarily pay tax you deserve to pay it.  Just like the people in the UK paying for a TV licence.

 

If this was actually enforced it would kill the real estate market, do you really think the people who are selling condos and Villas in Phuket and elsewhere at 4-5 times the build cost on land they have 'owned' for decades will allow this?  These are powerful people and include some who can just declare rocky land along the coast to be theirs.  They will not upset this apple cart.

 

It's the same reason money laundering regulations are not enforced here. 

[jwest10]

1 minute ago, Antti said:

What a <deleted>show. Now more than ever I think max 179 days in TH is the best option. Second best is to just lay low and see how the situation develops. One thing to keep in mind is that Thailand was bullied into joining the CSR, it wasn’t their own aspiration. They dragged their heels for a long time but finally had to do it to prevent their banks being greylisted. Some countries just join these things in name only to get the Western nanny states of their back and never really properly implement them. Hopefully Thailand is one of them.

Agree but not easy if one has a Thai family and of course they make absolutely no allowance for this and when these tax experts  are asked a simple question they do not but have you signed up and all about money, as usual.

[The Cyclist]

1 minute ago, JimGant said:

But, hey, knock yourself out. You seem to like the quest you're onto. By the way, the CRS gurus could care less about remittances, just as the FATCA gurus could care less. What your worldwide financial positions are, and their related annual incomes -- is what's of concern. How monies were remitted to those financial accounts has no relevance.

 

No its not. It's money that moves across CRS borders that is of concern. The money I earn in the UK,  pay tax on in the UK and stays in the UK is of no concern to CRS.

 

Now remind me again, the reason why Embassy income Affidavits were stopped ? Was it not because people were caught lying about their financials ?
 

Too much of a stretch to imagine that people might also be lying about the source of their income to avoid / evade tax. Especially those that remit income through platforms like Wise etc.

[jwest10]

31 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Not the English versions, but the ones in Thai are here:   https://rd.go.th/65971.html 

Thank you Mutt and thought for a minute as it came out in English but can see the forms but no way convert to English as far as I can see!!
Any ideas anyone apart from getting a Thai to convert
Yes, looked at the general rd site and yes can see the Income Exemption Entitlement form but do not work here in Thailand but as salaries and pensions in top box ?
 

Many people are going to lie low and in my personal circumstances my local Revenue office in Kanchanaburi have consistently stated to me that as I do not work here and my Income Exemption Entitlement is higher I do not need to file a form.
Yes indeed they knew and I know about being here for 180 days but yes at first it appears we have to file but there is a clause and stating if your allowances are lower than income coming in to Thailand you do not file.  

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, redwood1 said:

.And I will only charge 9,999.99 baht for my service...You see I knocked off 1 baht so people will think they are getting a deal...

 

It appears you knocked off 0.01 baht.

 

Shirley, you've shown yourself qualified to work as a CPA in Thailand!

[OneManShow]

In the US I don't even have to file any tax return 🤔. My income + SS pension won't be taxable. And I have already paid tax to IRS (as income) for my savings accounts in banks and other financial institutions. 
But my guess is this is about way larger incomes or gray money.
IMO they still have conflict between their own and don't really know how to do this or 

just want to keep it intentionally confusing. 

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

There is no legal requirement to file a US tax return if no taxes owed. 

 

I would believe the IRS disagrees.  You generally need to file if your gross income is greater than your standard deduction.

 

Unlike Thailand, we don't have to guess.

https://www.irs.gov/help/ita/do-i-need-to-file-a-tax-return

[redwood1]

19 minutes ago, OneManShow said:

In the US I don't even have to file any tax return 🤔. My income + SS pension won't be taxable. And I have already paid tax to IRS (as income) for my savings accounts in banks and other financial institutions. 
But my guess is this is about way larger incomes or gray money.
IMO they still have conflict between their own and don't really know how to do this or 

just want to keep it intentionally confusing. 

 

Its about grey money?........

 

Gray money is grey money because gray money does any thing under the sun to avoid  taxes.....New rules or regulations, does not mean any thing to to them....They will do any thing to avoid paying....

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

But why  did you file PND91? Isn't that only for people employed in Thailand?

 

Assume so, but the 2023 form does not specify that. Maybe 40(1) designates Thai employment only?

 

Personal Income Tax Return
for taxpayer with only income from employment
under Section 40 (1) of the Revenue Code Only

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/230367PIT91.pdf

 

The instructions do not specify Thai income only, but that would be assumed by most.

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_91_66_Complete.pdf

 

Note item A2 is where you enter the total from section B, exempted income.  But section B does not have an option to list foreign excluded income.

 

My guess is @thecyclist  TRD officer just plugged the number in a somewhat related slot, probably line 2 "government pension fund contribution", in order to avoid admitting a misteak.

 

PND90 would be required if the taxpayer is reporting interest or dividend or rental income, etc.  It has the same exemptions in section 1, item 2.

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Exactly, and it also does notbsay that one is exempt from Declaring / Reporting this income in Thailand.

 

And if one thinks about it logically, for Thailand to comply with its CRS requirements, that income would need to be declared / Reported.

 

From the instructions for PND91

 

Computation of Net-Income
In computing tax liability by using the net income method, a taxpayer has to bring into account all assessable income arising in a tax year.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/english_form/2023/GUIDE_91_66_Complete.pdf

 

If not assessable, not declared, thus no need to "find" an exemption to deduct it.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

If not assessable, not declared, thus no need to "find" an exemption to deduct it.

 

Sure, I agree, and a couple of estates have been danced around on the subject.

 

And that has been the understanding, including by me, of what the deal was in the past.

 

But the past is gone and we move on. And in the past 18 months Thailand has joined CRS and issued 2 POR's, and as I have pointed out previously on the thread, this makes total sense from a tax evasion / avoidance point of view

 

Quote

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

 

CRS primary function being the detection and avoidance of tax evasion / avoidance. And I really do not see who Thailand can comply with CRS if this income is not declared.

 

[Mutt Daeng]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

  Quote

 

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

@The Cyclist I would appreciate it if you could say where the above quote is from.

[NoDisplayName]

13 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

 

Too many pages now to try and find where that quote came from.  If from a newspaper or tax advisor, this is a mistranslation/misunderstanding or they simply shortened the actual change in interpretation of the law for brevity.  My understanding is there were NO changes to the existing law, only in the interpretation.

 

From the instructions for the form:

 

In computing tax liability by using the net income method, a taxpayer has to bring into account all assessable income arising in a tax year.

 

"bring into account" = declare

[NanLaew]

On 1/4/2025 at 9:28 AM, OJAS said:

 

And no question of English language versions of relevant forms being issued by that date, of course. Instead Revenue Department staff have no doubt been instructed by their Director-General to devote all their energies between now and then to the task of drawing up a comprehensive list of all foreigner tax residents (with the eager and willing assistance of their pals in the Immigration Bureau, of course) aimed at gleefully hitting all such foreigners with 2,000 THB fines for non-compliance bang on the dot at 00:00:01 on 1 April!🤑

 

The forms, in English, have been available for at least a year.

 

As for the rest of your witless scaremongering and groundless conjecture, that's just witless scaremongering and groundless conjecture.

[The Cyclist]

11 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

@The Cyclist I would appreciate it if you could say where the above quote is from.

 

At the very start of the thread

[NoDisplayName]

4 hours ago, jwest10 said:

Ok fair dues but just thought it a coincidence as total present allowances is either 500 or 560K Baht 

 

Maximum exemption for "government pension fund contribution" is 500K.

[topt]

19 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

@The Cyclist I would appreciate it if you could say where the above quote is from.

 

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

At the very start of the thread

 

17 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Too many pages now to try and find where that quote came from.

It's from the first paragraph of the Thai Examiner article - no official attribution whatsoever.......

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2025/01/03/revenue-department-boss-calls-on-tax-residents-in-thailand-to-file-2024-runs-by-the-march-31st-deadline/

 

Quote

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable. The income tax payable by each foreigner depends on the nature of such income and the tax treaty with their country of origin. The question now is how many foreign taxpayers will file returns between now and March 31st. After that, it remains to be seen if follow-up actions will be taken against those who fail to do so.

 

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

At the very start of the thread

 

Journalistic license, reported in the examiner.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2025/01/03/revenue-department-boss-calls-on-tax-residents-in-thailand-to-file-2024-runs-by-the-march-31st-deadline/

 

Certainly, this year, all expats who have been residents of Thailand for 180 days or more in the course of the last year are liable to file a return. The return pertains to taxable income earned within Thailand and remitted to Thailand during 2024.

 

So the infotainment writer is apparently unaware of non-taxable income streams and how DTA's work.  The writer is not an expert, just a dude.

 

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

[The Cyclist]

12 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

So the infotainment writer is apparently unaware of non-taxable income streams and how DTA's work.  The writer is not an expert, just a dude.

 

Changes to tax regulations in 2023 make all income remitted to Thailand by foreign residents in the country for over 180 days last year declarable.

 

How DTA's actually work is immaterial to Thailand complying with Tax avoidance / evasion measures pertaining to CRS.

 

Reportable does not mean taxable, it means checking that the appropriate taxes have been paid on the money remitted into Thailand., and still able to comply with  DTA's.

 

And in that sense, pertaining to tax avoidance / evasion, the word reportable is entirely appropriate

[NoDisplayName]

5 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

How DTA's actually work is immaterial to Thailand complying with Tax avoidance / evasion measures pertaining to CRS.

 

Reportable does not mean taxable, it means checking that the appropriate taxes have been paid on the money remitted into Thailand., and still able to comply with  DTA's.

 

And in that sense, pertaining to tax avoidance / evasion, the word reportable is entirely appropriate

 

Are you gonna believe a rando reporter, or the TRD instructions published on the official government website?

 

Computation of Net-Income
In computing tax liability by using the net income method, a taxpayer has to bring into account all assessable income arising in a tax year.

[jwest10]

42 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

 

The forms, in English, have been available for at least a year.

 

As for the rest of your witless scaremongering and groundless conjecture, that's just witless scaremongering and groundless conjecture.